Multiclass Proposal

Estarra

As players have been asking for multiclass, I've been giving a lot of thought on how it could work. Below is an outline of how I think we may implement it. Comments welcome!

Guild Leaders

• GUILD MULTICLASS ALLOW (player)
  • Syntax for guild leader (GM, Admin, Champ) to allow someone to multiclass in the guild
• GUILD MULTICLASS REPORT
  • Syntax for guild leader (GM, Admin, Champ) to allow someone to list everyone who is allowed to multiclass in guild and who may currently be multiclassed in guild

Players

• GUILD MULTICLASS GUILD (guild) [CONFIRM]
  • Costs 500 lessons (250 if in a covenant guild)
  • Forget all guild skills, can choose guild skills from multiclass guild you have chosen
  • Can select skills from new guild
  • Can learn skills from multiclass guild BUT only from a member of that guild who is level 3+
    • Skills learned cost 20% more lessons (10% if covenant guild)
  • Can multiclass once per game month
• GUILD MULTICLASS FORGET
  • Costs 500 lessons (250 if in a covenant guild)
  • Revert to current guild, forget all multiclass guild skills
• GUILD MULTICLASS LIST
  • Lists all guilds you have permisson to multiclass
  • Lists costs for lessons to multiclass (i.e., 500 if non-covenant, 250 if covenant, 0 if have artifact)
• Guild Champions
  • Can multiclass like everyone else BUT guild chamption artifact only works if not in multiclass guild

Artifact

• Diadem of d'Varsha
  • 2000 credits
  • Can multiclass with no lesson costs
  • Can learn skills from a multiclass guild at normal rate
  • Can multiclass 2x per game day

Xenthos

Is there any benefit to a Covenant if you have the artifact?

Does doing this actually put you in the new guild?

Estarra

No extra benefit if you have the artifact for covenant guilds.

It does not put you in the new guild at all. It just lets you use and learn those guild skills.

Suggestions welcome!

Vadi

We'll want to make sure to avoid scenarios where people switch a class mid-fight after having prepped and opponent and use other class skills to finish them off and take advantage of the blend - so perhaps make class switching take 30s eq and be unforceable. We'll also want to avoid letting them keep defences from another class when they switch.

Chade

I like the proposal a lot. I'd consider selling the Diadem as an upgrade to the Cords though.

Cords already allow lessonless skillflexing for 1k credits, give the Diadem lessonless skillflexing as well and sell it as a 1k upgrade to the cords or 2k for an outright purchase.

Lesson cost for standard multiclass may be a touch on the steep side too. Consider 300 lessons for non-covenant guilds and 150 for covenant.

Xenthos

What will the skillchoice activate costs be (can still only do 50 lessons of activation per IC day?)

I will say I am a bit weirded out by the concept of a Wyrdenwood Nekotai. I would prefer that it actually move you to that guild (and remember your rank when you go back).

I just have no good idea for what to do about the elected leadership positions.

Maybe divorce elected positioms from the guild, so that you have to be in the guild to contest, but can then multiclass and keep your position (and access to that guild's aethers as well).

Thus, on GWho you would show guild members, then guild leaders, then covenant bonds.

Perhaps not the best idea, but at least a possible solution in the direction I would like to see.

Shadowdancers in full plate would also make me a bit uncomfortable, too. Obviously they wouldn't have the SD skills, but it is a style and theme kind of thing.

To do it otherwise, I feel like we might as well just dissolve guilds (this is a serious statement btw). Once the guild is no longer bound to the same shared pools, it loses a lot of its identity (and could also just lead to people flocking together to one guild and letting the others kind of stagnate).

Estarra

Could have a long balance loss to switch. Will look at making sure defenses lost like skillflexing.

Talan

Should the guilds also have the ability to revoke access, so that skills cannot be re-activated or further learned? If not, maybe take the permissions out of player hands entirely.

Estarra

Well guilds have the ability to tell someone not to multiclass to a certain guild and kick them out if they disobey. Otherwise, the permissions come from the guild they want to multiclass in, not the one they are currently in. For the latter, let the RP ensue!

I don't really like the idea of switching guilds, sorry.

Multiclassing will be allowable for guild leaders but champions won't be able to use their artifacts. If guilds don't like their leaders multiclassed, they can always challenge that leader.

Guilds still serve a purpose, I think, as a political party for org leaders as well as being necessary to define skills in a class/archetype.

Xenthos

What about the limit of 50 skill activation points?

Estarra

I think the 50 skill activation points would be raised to 200 upon multiclass so you can fill out your skills (like if you actually switched guilds).

Xenthos

So if you had the artifact, you could swap 50 points, flex, swap another 200 points, and then flex back for another 200 points?

Because if it does not reset the limit when you multiclass, being able to do it two times per game day would be pretty pointless.

Estarra

Maybe we should retain the 50 lesson limit then? Suggestions?

Xenthos

Then there would be even less point to being able to swap two times in a day.

It would be nice if this 2k thing just also updated your flex limit to 200/300 a day. Now that flexing loses defs it is not such a big deal, and if it ups it to 300 you can use both multiclasses. Alternatively you could use them as a bard to switch from tinkering (highmagic) back to the lowmagic trades without having to wait multiple days.

That would also make the thing that much more appealing to me. I do not personally have any real desire to multiclass (except maybe to stealth to sneak through enemy territory).

Shuyin

So if I'm currently an Illu and already know how to be a Minstrel, switching between the two will cost 250/500 lessons every time I do it unless I own the artifact, so it's similar to skillflexing that way? Also, just making sure, but if this happens, it also forgets temporarily unless we specifically add the permanently syntax, right.

But if I'm misunderstanding, how would switching between two classes you already possess work?

Otherwise, looks good.

Ardmore

I don't think I would ever multiclass without the artifact, and I don't think I would ever spend 2000 credits on it. I would consider if it was an upgradable cord, like Chade said. Everything else besides the crazy (and somewhat understandable) costs seems nifty.

Estarra

I like Xenthos' idea about just having it raise the flex limit to 200/300. Also am not adverse to Chade's idea that it's an upgrade of the cord (though probably need to change the name!).

Xenthos

Well, if you add in my flex limit raise thing and make it an upgrade of the cord, I can pretty much guarantee that I will buy one.

Malayn

This doesnt feel like multi-classing to me. Usually multi-class means you have like X levels of one class, Y levels of another.  This system is just a way to take another guild without changing the current one.  You cant like take knighthood with tarot or anything.

Estarra

Maybe we should change the term 'multiclass' to something else? No way we can allow people to mix skills between guilds.

Xenthos

This is multi classing as presented by Sojiro to Estarra, not the traditional pen and paper multiclassing (where you can have both active with reduced efficacy).

Can you even imagine the balancing headaches involved with that?

Xenthos

Doctoral cords of the elite guildhopper.

Shuyin

Raising the flex limit and making it a cord upgrade are also solid moves, but what about my question?

Estarra

Not sure I understand your question, Shuyin. Multiclassing would cost you 500/250 lessons each time you swap but would cost you nothing if you had the artifact. Was that the question?

Estarra

Oh, I was talking to Roark and what we'd do is probably make you forget incompatible guild skills before you can make the mutliclass swap. The code is setup that way so it'd be easiest to code.

Shuyin

Was just asking how it would work once you already know the skills, if it's the same as learning a new class, then I'm good.

Estarra

FYI, I greenlighted Roark to start coding this!

Eritheyl

Spending lessons to start, then extra lessons to learn? This seems completely silly to me, my interest is now less than zero.

Ardmore

It would've either been lessons or credits (which are effectively lessons.) I'm not sure what you expected.

Tridemon

I'm pretty sure that this is meant to be a credit sink, considering the thread that spawned the multiclass discussion...

Enyalida

That seems like a huge lesson cost. Why does it have to cost any lessons, let alone 500?