Mysterious Doors Update

Estarra

For those who are still interested in the status of the mysterious doors:

• Geomancers - 69.4%
• Aeromancers - 64.2%
• Blacktalon - 48.2%
• Pyromancers - 47.6%

Aeromancers have really jumped up!! We are thinking about letting this race to open doors run until the doors actually open rather than ending at the start of December. Let us know what you think of that idea!

Cyndarin

Please don't. I don't think setting an alarm to put essence in a door every hour for another month is really on anyone's "fun list."

 

I think people are just ready to have them open and hopefully find out what they mean. Especially the guilds with the doors.

Kiradawea

I'd prefer the Institute or Sentinels or the Wheel end up doing something that end up helping stabilize the doors, so that more than one piece of essence can be put in every hour, rather than the current incarnation which does little but raspberry the remaining guilds for not having as many active members as the Aquamancers.

This way you keep the "race" aspect of it, but it removes the current tedium.

Xenthos

Either 1) Let it be done at a faster rate, or 2) Just end it as stated.  It's pretty taxing on small guilds (and the Blacktalon have done an amazing job to push themselves up from where they were at the first post), but if I were them I'd be awfully frustrated to be told that we suddenly have to do it even longer.

Saran

If it became a matter of what @Kiradawea said, where something happens and now the entire org can join in then maybe. But I would not want to be doing it with just the guild beyond the advertised end date.

On the flip side, it would allow for the numbers to shift.

EDIT: Oh, the question that hasn't been asked.

My original impression is that the doors would slowly be opening over a period of time. Would it potentially be faster for the guilds to open their doors if the race continued?

Vadi

BT member here. The botched event leading up to the doors forced two RP-conscious people out of our guild, because their ideals were just broken and senseless. The next move from admins was to make an event to which a guilds non-novice population was crucial and make a race out of it. Given how the people online folds linearly essence per person per hour, this just means the event was rewarding the guild that was already doing well in population and making a race between all the others not to have the shameful last spot. 

I'm someone who's had to make an hourly timer to dutifully do the essence run, because our community has a core few players. It is fun? No, it's not. This is not fun. In case that wasn't clear, I'll say it again - this is not fun.

A minor point, but the doors don't fit with the logical playstyle of playing 2-3 hours in the evening when people get back from work. If you wanted your guild to win, a working person would have a degree of pressure or guilt to do it in working hours. This was not thought through very well. Again, I'll reiterate that this is a minor point.

Eventru

Vadi said:

BT member here. The botched event leading up to the doors forced two RP-conscious people out of our guild, because their ideals were just broken and senseless.

There was nothing about the Xynthin event that was botched. Indeed, by all accounts, it seems to have gone swimmingly and been thoroughly enjoyed by those who participated.

The door event was designed to take a few weeks and reward the guilds that managed the most work without being overwhelming. There's no great shame in being second or third place - and it wasn't until the last few days that it was actually a race not to be in the bottom for two of the guilds.

Xenthos

Eventru said:

Vadi said:

BT member here. The botched event leading up to the doors forced two RP-conscious people out of our guild, because their ideals were just broken and senseless.

There was nothing about the Xynthin event that was botched. Indeed, by all accounts, it seems to have gone swimmingly and been thoroughly enjoyed by those who participated.

The door event was designed to take a few weeks and reward the guilds that managed the most work without being overwhelming. There's no great shame in being second or third place - and it wasn't until the last few days that it was actually a race not to be in the bottom for two of the guilds.

Sorry, but Crow being a complete * (which he always is in events so it's not really a surprise to people who have been around a while) is a complete shocker / heartbreaker to people who have bought into the whole mythos of Crow.

That's why the BT especially had issues with that event.

Xenthos

Basically, someone needs to teach Crow how to actually be a little more useful.

Also, Mother Night basically giving up and going, "Woe, woe are we, there is no hope" was a little off.

The event was fun for a lot of people, but for those who are heavy RPers, having the Great Spirits kind of collapse on them just didn't work in an IC capacity, and some of them just weren't up for False Memorying it away.

Eventru

Xenthos said:

Eventru said:

Vadi said:

BT member here. The botched event leading up to the doors forced two RP-conscious people out of our guild, because their ideals were just broken and senseless.

There was nothing about the Xynthin event that was botched. Indeed, by all accounts, it seems to have gone swimmingly and been thoroughly enjoyed by those who participated.

The door event was designed to take a few weeks and reward the guilds that managed the most work without being overwhelming. There's no great shame in being second or third place - and it wasn't until the last few days that it was actually a race not to be in the bottom for two of the guilds.

Sorry, but Crow being a complete * (which he always is in events so it's not really a surprise to people who have been around a while) is a complete shocker / heartbreaker to people who have bought into the whole mythos of Crow.

That's why the BT especially had issues with that event.

I don't understand what you mean by the asterisk. Whatever Crow does or doesn't do often has a reason, though Crow has never really been a spirit of direct combat but instead trickery, cunning and deception. Doesn't limit the people he tricks and deceives to enemies though (I note, I don't know what you're referencing particularly in this instance).

It's the first complaint I've heard, anyways, that wasn't Celina being frustrated over snowflakes.

I'll leave it there though, I don't want to distract from the actual topic of the thread.

Xenthos

Eventru said:

Xenthos said:

Eventru said:

Vadi said:

BT member here. The botched event leading up to the doors forced two RP-conscious people out of our guild, because their ideals were just broken and senseless.

There was nothing about the Xynthin event that was botched. Indeed, by all accounts, it seems to have gone swimmingly and been thoroughly enjoyed by those who participated.

The door event was designed to take a few weeks and reward the guilds that managed the most work without being overwhelming. There's no great shame in being second or third place - and it wasn't until the last few days that it was actually a race not to be in the bottom for two of the guilds.

Sorry, but Crow being a complete * (which he always is in events so it's not really a surprise to people who have been around a while) is a complete shocker / heartbreaker to people who have bought into the whole mythos of Crow.

That's why the BT especially had issues with that event.

I don't understand what you mean by the asterisk. Whatever Crow does or doesn't do often has a reason, though Crow has never really been a spirit of direct combat but instead trickery, cunning and deception. Doesn't limit the people he tricks and deceives to enemies though (I note, I don't know what you're referencing particularly in this instance).

It's the first complaint I've heard, anyways, that wasn't Celina being frustrated over snowflakes.

There's been a lot of it on our Glom-clan from most of the people who are in it.  It's basically about how he's supposed to be a great and mighty / powerful Spirit, but mostly all he did during the event was flap around a little bit, run away, and perch on Xynthin's shoulder (as people were starting to shift away from helping him) to basically bring it back to "who the heck knows what to do, too much conflicting information, and our Great Spirits appear to be on his side".

Crow has a history of underperforming pretty drastically, to the point where you just have to ignore anything he does in events, because he's built up to be this super force (Dark Spirit), but he never lives up to the hype.

Cyndarin

I was frustrated over Xenthos getting special treatment after requesting special rules. Snowflake or not.

But that's neither here nor there

Xenthos

The complaints are more about how the Spirits acted than anything else, from the conversations I've been a part of at least.  I personally thought the event was really good on the whole, and it really pushed a lot of buttons (I mean, how the heck would you react if god-you showed up?).

Lorina

I think essence contributions should scale a bit more towards the end. I love the fact that the guilds are actively shaping the course of the event that is going to happen... But I don't want the less populated guilds to be left out. Maybe after the event is ready, essence put into the door could be worth a whole lot more. It still would call for people to put it in, but it would be more bang for the buck.

Kiradawea

Celina said:

I was frustrated over Xenthos getting special treatment after requesting special rules. Snowflake or not.

But that's neither here nor there

Use it as clout for the "ascension of Celina as the True Night" event or something. >.> <.<

More seriously,  while I cannot say anything for certain being not-glomdorian and thus outside most of the event, I can sympathise with feeling that your great spirit underperforms. It does seem to happen quite often that the very things we try to put our trust into end up falling way short of our expectations. Sure, we the players should be the heroes of events, but the great beings of the orgs should be, if not successful then at least appear competent.

Cyndarin

I think the event went pretty well. Personally, I think the players of Glomdoring held themselves back in a lot of ways, and rather than aggressively pursuing the event, they were resigned to the ooc fact that it was an event and without Mother night/brennan/whoever giving them explicit instructions, they just had to wait it out. I mean, I was privy to most of the IC and OOC conversation and the common vein in all of it was "Mother Night hasn't responded to us, wtf do we do now." Well you know, we have RP and stuff set up for this sort of thing. We have a whoooole guild in place to tell you what she thinks. In the end, I think some players who are frustrated limited themselves because of OOC knowledge. That's my perspective.

It wasn't flawless, but what event is. I feel the event went very well, even considering how much I dislike the premise of it.

Xenthos

Consider this: What would you do if all the Supernals just said, "Hey guys, we love the Taint now, we're off to swim in it with Nifilhema, ta!"

I think you'd have a number of pretty disappointed Celestians.

I'm not saying that it was the same level, but some people are very, very heavily invested in the RP and lore, and when they're confronted with pretty much the opposite of what they've built their entire game careers over, it's disheartening.  Even if it's what the behind-the-scenes text says to do for the NPCs in question.

And I want to emphasize again that I'm just posting in regards to the Spirits themselves and how they acted.  Mother Night / Rowena were pretty darned awesome as actual forces during the whole thing, Night just kind of collapsed on an RP level later. 

So please don't take this as an expression of dislike for the efforts you guys all put into it!  Just... hopefully, some constructive criticism of the part that rubbed some players wrong.   There was so much amazing stuff happening throughout that it was difficult to keep up with it all.  Speaking for myself, at least!

So much RP, so much character pondering, so much stress and soul-searching... and the people running the event definitely put in a lot of time to make it come off, including a fair bit of research into how the players act.  Please, please do more of this kind of thing.

Vadi

Eventru said:

Vadi said:

BT member here. The botched event leading up to the doors forced two RP-conscious people out of our guild, because their ideals were just broken and senseless.

There was nothing about the Xynthin event that was botched. Indeed, by all accounts, it seems to have gone swimmingly and been thoroughly enjoyed by those who participated.

You say that, I don't. Those are my words. It did not go swimmingly well and your statement is blind to what has happened on our side.

/player

Cyndarin

I disagree Night went against her RP in the end. I'm not sure what that's about.

Xenthos

All right, this thread is way off-track now.  Sorry about that.  I just wanted to explain Vadi's comment and that there was indeed dissatisfaction with certain elements of the event (as Celina said, there often are with any event- it's important for them to be talked about just so there can be a bit of an understanding of what players would like to see done differently in future events, to make them all the better).

For myself, though, all I can say is: More events!  More!  I mean, you followed the Xynthin one with the Wheel visions, which were completely amazing (though I disagree with how I would have reacted to Celina trying to torture me, hmph!).

Events here are one of the main things that I absolutely love about Lusternia, because they force you to react out of your "comfort zone".  Unexpected scenarios, unexpected situations, and you have to actually be invested in the things... there's a reason that I show up whenever an event is happening.

Nocht

Let's not get off topic. If you want to make a thread to discus the event in a constructive manner please do so. Let's keep this one about what's behind those doors!

Saran

Take it to another thread maybe?

So yeah...

My thought was like... maybe there could be a plot device that will open the door after a certain amount of time. Maybe it adds essence for the guilds slowly? Either as something that is a switch (i.e you put it up and you can't put essence in any more) or if possible mechanically(i.e every day it will add a specific amount of essence), along with the possibility of still speeding up the process.

Like... if the doors are all going to open this weekend if the guilds don't want to continue then cool, don't bother, no one is going to want to continue. But if they're not going to open for like... a week or two, if not more. Then other options might be wanted.

Lerad

Edit: Let's keep this about the doors. Thank you - Nocht

That's the end of my 2cents to the derail.

On the topic, the door-race was a decent idea, and I think it went well for the most part. Aquas and Hartstone probably had a good deal of fun with their numbers and rp. It's probably time to wrap it up, though. The original end-of-the-month deadline was a good first-guess on how long the race should go. There might be others in the various guilds left that might want to give it a go until they complete it, but lengthening it now may just tip the number of people who feel frustrated by it to the majority. Good as a competition may be, putting it for too long might not always be a good idea. It's been a good run, time to wrap it up and save it for another day.

Alacardael

I really want to know what's next after the doors open so please keep the November deadline!

Estarra

Quoteth Barnum Czigany: Events can please some of the players all of the time or all of the players some of the time, but events never please all of the players all of the time! Yes, I can hear you saying, but if I were running that event... well, become an ephemeral and experience what it's like from the other side! It's much, much harder than you may imagine, especially when players bitch about it afterwards to the point where you never want to run another one! (Of course, positive feedback has the opposite effect!)

Anyway, I like the idea of speeding the quest up for the doors!

Kiradawea

Speeding up the quest would be nice. You could even increase the actual amount of essence that the doors need, as long as it becomes possible to put in more than a few essence every hour. The problem with its current incarnation, as I see it, isn't so much that it's a race, but that it's a race where you spend most of the time twiddling thumbs and wishing there were more people in your guild. Once the essence cap is removed, it becomes more about putting in an effort, and less about having great numbers of people.

Raeri

Agreed - please don't drag it out for another month+ before they start opening ._.

Shuyin

I have no idea who or what gave the impression that guilds trying not to be last somehow translates to the grinding being so fun that it's worth extending for another month.

Estarra

Sheesh, you guys can be dramatic. The doors haven't been open 3 weeks and even the slowest guilds are about 50% done. Note the Aquamancers opened theirs in one week! Further, this isn't a 'grind' insofar as we purposefuly didn't make it a relentless task that you did non stop but rather a casual once-an-hour quest. The point in the end, isn't 'fun' per se but rather a sense of accomplishment in completing a task!

Anyway, just out of curiosity, how you design a quest/contest that does run for a month without it being perceived as a grind?

Xenthos

I'm pretty sure that you can't run any contest for a RL month that isn't a grind, simply because in order to be a contest you would need to do it more than once every day (otherwise pretty much all parties will be pretty equal).  The QuestEvents you run (do a small thing once every day) isn't really a grind, since you can do it at any point during the day when you log on; but this current thing is basically, "put in a mote of essence, set an alarm, redo every time the alarm fires".

For smaller things though, I think you did the Wheel quest perfectly.  You had a small handful of people who chose to grind the heck out of it, but most people were doing it for a couple of small rewards and primarily the visions; every time you completed it you got something worthwhile.

Kiradawea

I disagree with Xenthos on this. I think it is possible to run a contest that would not be a grind. Part of what makes a grind a grind is that it is a simple, repetitive instance of a task, leaving you feeling more like a machine than a person. However if the task was more elaborate, requiring multiple, not-immediately-repeating steps, it would remove a whole lot of the tedium involved in the task.

There are two ways I see how this could be done. One is to have a set of tasks of which one is randomly picked once you start up the quest for the time being. It could be "get a piece of essence" or "bring a bard here" or "guide a scholar there" or "take this to Weeky". The advantage of this is that you do not know what exactly to expect, mixing the tedium of "I have to do X again today. Aww man." with a bit of "ooh, wonder what I'll have to do today to remain in the event".

The second is to still have a set of tasks, but have them done in order. For example, assume you have one of your 21 days a month quest events. This time you're helping with the construction of some mysterious contraption. On day one, you deliver a set of schemata to an architect. On day two, you guide a scholar to the architect to help with the contraption, on day three you take a new set of schemata to some engineer, on day four you get the engineer a piece of essence, on day five he needs a sandojin, on day six he needs you to deliver the test contraption to whomever gave you the task in the first place, and on day seven you do a "find the location" quest to test the contraption, then start over again. Suddenly you only perform three iterations of the task, rather than twenty-one.

Granted, this may be more work. I have no idea how much work an event-mini-quest is. But this is a way I would think one could make such quests less tedious.