Guild Covenants

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Comments

  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear
    I still maintain that having factions in each org (night worshipers, Crow murderers, scorp followers) that can rise and fall similar to Lusternia houses is the way to go. Start with admin created ones that mirror the current guild structure, and then let loose. Players can form their own, they can disappear if they fall below a certain threshold, etc. Will flesh out the idea in its own thread once I'm not phone typing
    image
  • aaaand what, embrace autoclass? *puts down the open can of worms and backs away slowly*
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Autoclass has already been in, no one loses guild skills anymore, it's all tied to power.

    But we already have half-assed classflex, why not just go all in on that and make it real, revenue-generating multiclass.
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  • Would there be some way to make settings for a covenant, to determine what is shared and what isn't via agreement between the two guild leaders?
  • Ieptix's suggestion would allow that flexibility - the only things that is shared would be the help files that are designated to be shared via adding the suffix.

    For log reading and all, I personally don't think it's that big of a deal, shared or not. Access to certain helpfiles without needing the hassle of pastebin and the such would already be a big step to solving the most pressing problems. The newbies of any guild, Covenanted or not, probably doesn't even know logs exist.

  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Ieptix said:
    * Adding a new GCT channel or something would be possible, but I almost see it as just adding complexity for no major gain; it largely becomes just _another_ channel to keep track of, especially for new players, who already have NEWBIE and CT and CGT and GNT and GT and quite possibly a handful of CLTs and probably others I'm forgetting. Am interested in more feedback regarding channels.
    Tangential thought: I think we should get rid of GNT, and just give full access to GT from novicehood onward. It's not like they're missing anything delectable.

    ...that said, to compromise, I would still prefer the covenant channel made separate (or gr5 should be the new gr3 in terms of ease of new player advancement, which it already is in some guilds I've joined).
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.

    If Ieptix's list is the way we're going, I don't see why we shouldn't just dissolve the guilds altogether. Not my preferred option, but that certainly seems the direction we're going. It has its value, even if it's not my direction of choice.

     

    With the advent of classflexing and the merger of guilds in every way imaginable save the actual guild names, it seems more fluid to just realign the focus of the game to orgs and wipe the guilds clean rather than hodge podging covenants into some kind of newbie helping frankenstein.

     

     

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  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    I don't agree with the implication that guilds form the basis of most roleplay. RP is more fluid than that. I'm just saying that covenant improvements are only a bandaid fix to the population spread.


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  • @Shuyin, I didn't say all RP.  However, from the start of making a character a new player's RP begins within the realm of City/Commune, Guild, then Race.  This would conceivably remove one of those.  In reality, the one that the person will have the most interaction with as a new player.  So yes, it will dramatically effect new players in terms of initial development.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    I didn't say all RP either.

    Again, guilds built on a foundation based on your class skills isn't particularly deep RP. I would prefer that characters find meaning beyond the ability to spirit bond trout. With that in mind, I would prefer guilds become based on ideology more than skill. Which probably means merging some of them yes.

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  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    edited June 2014
    P.S.I don't really want to delete guilds, I just want less of them in a nutshell.
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  • I'm not talking about skillsets.  I'm talking about the lore-based organizations which guilds are.  However, I really hate multi-class because that takes bodies away from guilds.  Don't want to be in the monk guild for your city?  Multi class and join the warrior guild.  Monk guild just lost a perspective member.  Multiply by 20 and suddenly a guild just dies because people want to be in another guild for whatever reason.  I just really like this game and I don't want to see it destroy itself by implementing bad decisions which have already been proven to be damaging to IRE games.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Citation needed.
    image
  • Shuyin said:
    Citation needed.
    Log on to Imperian.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    /tableflip
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    47 imperian online vs 56 lusternia right now. Not much difference.
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  • GUILD ADVANCE already appears to work with covenants. Are there any other novice promotion/advancement related commands of relevance that I'm not seeing?
    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    Holdback, not that anyone ever uses it.
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  • Prefix/Suffix I guess?
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited June 2014
    Brona said:
    I'm not talking about skillsets.  I'm talking about the lore-based organizations which guilds are.  However, I really hate multi-class because that takes bodies away from guilds.  Don't want to be in the monk guild for your city?  Multi class and join the warrior guild.  Monk guild just lost a perspective member.  Multiply by 20 and suddenly a guild just dies because people want to be in another guild for whatever reason.  I just really like this game and I don't want to see it destroy itself by implementing bad decisions which have already been proven to be damaging to IRE games.

    This doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. If people are staying in a guild just for the skills something clearly needs to be done, if that thing is getting rid of that guild and allowing members in other guilds to take theirs kills, seems like a good solution to me. Obviously folks in that monk guild weren't getting good/fun/satisfying rp from that guild, why should they be punished with a lame guild? Especially for some of the guilds that hurt their entire org being empty, as their skills prove vital for org conflict.
  • edited June 2014
    So with the new updates to covenants, I had another idea that might work better for the scrolls - of which I hope it's not impossible to do!
    I was thinking that the scrolls of the guild could have permissions attached to them, like we would give permissions for someone to enter or not enter a manse / aethership module etc.

    GHELP PERMS <scroll> <perms> | PERMS: GR1, GR2, GR3, UNDERSEC, SECR, GM, GA, GC,  etc..

    Or something along those lines!

    This would then reduce the amount of scroll visible to a newbie in GHELP - they would only see the scrolls most important to them at the time (Rules, conduct, respect, titles, history, advancement -whichever scrolls you feel they need as a newbie)
    And then when they hit GR1, more scrolls will be visible..and so on.

    Another example, I will use the Moondancers. From GR1-3 you had tasks to do before you became a true member of the Coven - so you could restrict a number of scrolls until they hit GR3, to immerse the more in the guild.

    I think something like this will give an incentive, too, for people to advance to learn more of the guild (if that's how you play the above)
    This would also be useful to have the leaders, their secretaries/undersecs/prot/security to have scrolls that would only be viewable to them for teaching purposes, advancement recording, etc. (Though I suppose that this is also what projects are for..) but this would also reduce the need to have a separate clan for undersec/sec/GA/teachers (like we had in the Moondancers, the Coven of the Moon clan was for teachers so we had scrolls to keep records on novices / scrolls for teaching guides etc)

    I hope I didn't ramble too much!

    EDIT: Oh, so this is also for guild covenants, too. EX. As a Blacktalon in Covenant with Ebonguard, I could set the permissions of GHELP ABC to EBONGUARD ALL or if I had a lore scroll that only the guild leaders should see, GHELP XYZ to EBONGUARD GA ; EBONGUARD GC ; EBONGUARD GM
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    I'd personally like to see the GHELP RENAME <current name> <new name> added as an option to guild leaders to make it easier to reorganize scrolls as needed.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • edited June 2014

    Anita said:
    So with the new updates to covenants, I had another idea that might work better for the scrolls - of which I hope it's not impossible to do!
    I was thinking that the scrolls of the guild could have permissions attached to them, like we would give permissions for someone to enter or not enter a manse / aethership module etc.

    GHELP PERMS <scroll> <perms> | PERMS: GR1, GR2, GR3, UNDERSEC, SECR, GM, GA, GC,  etc..

    Or something along those lines!

    This would then reduce the amount of scroll visible to a newbie in GHELP - they would only see the scrolls most important to them at the time (Rules, conduct, respect, titles, history, advancement -whichever scrolls you feel they need as a newbie)
    And then when they hit GR1, more scrolls will be visible..and so on.

    Another example, I will use the Moondancers. From GR1-3 you had tasks to do before you became a true member of the Coven - so you could restrict a number of scrolls until they hit GR3, to immerse the more in the guild.

    I think something like this will give an incentive, too, for people to advance to learn more of the guild (if that's how you play the above)
    This would also be useful to have the leaders, their secretaries/undersecs/prot/security to have scrolls that would only be viewable to them for teaching purposes, advancement recording, etc. (Though I suppose that this is also what projects are for..) but this would also reduce the need to have a separate clan for undersec/sec/GA/teachers (like we had in the Moondancers, the Coven of the Moon clan was for teachers so we had scrolls to keep records on novices / scrolls for teaching guides etc)

    I hope I didn't ramble too much!

    EDIT: Oh, so this is also for guild covenants, too. EX. As a Blacktalon in Covenant with Ebonguard, I could set the permissions of GHELP ABC to EBONGUARD ALL or if I had a lore scroll that only the guild leaders should see, GHELP XYZ to EBONGUARD GA ; EBONGUARD GC ; EBONGUARD GM


    A much better way to do this will be to steal (yes, outright steal and adapt) Aetolia's orghelp index system. Here it is:

    6.28 Organizational Help Files

    As much as our help file system documents, it will never even approach fully covering everything
    there is to know in Aetolia, as much of that knowledge is player-created and ever-changing. In order
    to facilitate the passing of information from older players to younger players, and to assist in the
    creation of a culture within these organizations, cities, guilds, clans, and Divine Orders can
    create organizational help files. The commands are as follows:

    CITYHELP EDIT <file name>
    - Can be done by ruling council, and any Minister. Creates or edits a
      help file with that name.

    CITYHELP DELETE <filename>
    - Can be done by ruling council, and any Minister. Deletes a help file
      with that name.

    CITYHELP or CITYHELP INDEX
    - Shows you an index of city help files.

    CITYHELP EDIT INDEX
    - Done by the organization leader, edits the appearance of the city help
      index itself.

    CITYHELP <file name>
    - Shows you a particular city help file.

    The syntaxes for the other organizations are the same, except the root
    verb is: GUILDHELP, CLHELP, HOUSEHELP, or ORDERHELP.

    In guilds, GMs and Secretaries can edit and delete. In Clans, only the
    clan head and those bestowed with the ability may do it, though in all
    cases, the organizational Patron can also edit the files. In Orders,
    only the God or Goddess and those that have the 'orderhelp' privilege
    may edit files for the Order.

    You can create a custom index page for your orghelp by editing the
    'index' file. Note that this means you will have to update the index
    each time your files get created or deleted. You can use GHELP
    REALINDEX to see an automatically updated list of all your orghelp
    files.

    Orghelp files can be linked using MXP links as such:

    To link to another one of your organization's help files, you wrap the help file's name in [[ and ]],
     i.e. [[filenamehere]].

    To link to an actual help file you should wrap the help file name in [< and >], i.e.
    [<helpfilenamehere>].

    Here is a slightly more verbose example:

    Hello novice! Please take the time to read GHELP [[PROGRESSION]]. You should also read over HELP
    [<RAZMAEL>] as he's a pretty cool guy.



    Here's what anyone typing CHELP sees:
    Help Index: The City of Bloodloch
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Composed by: Lyl
    Composed on: 2013/12/08 14:19 GMT

    ++-----------------------------------------------++
    +                                                 +
    |  THE OFFICIAL SCROLLS OF THE CITY OF BLOODLOCH  |
    +                                                 +
    ++-----------------------------------------------++

    =======================      =================
    || CITIZEN REFERENCE ||      || FOR NOVICES ||
    =======================      =================
      - City Credits             - Welcome
      - City Portals             - Becoming Undead
      - City Shops               - Directions
      - Crafters                 - Map
      - Commodity shops          - Novice Quests
      - Novice Titles            - Novice Hunting
      - Personal Dwellings       - Yohanan
      - Shrines

    ================             ===============
    ||  RESEARCH  ||             ||  HUNTING  ||
    ================             ===============
    - Research                   - Hunting One
    - Research Benefits          - Hunting Two
    - Research Rewards           - Hunting Three
       + Project 1134              + Project 1384 - TABLE OF CONTENTS +
       + Project 1117              + Project 1382 (rare organs)
    - Ylem Mist                    + Project 1287 (directions: 5-30)
                                   + Project 1345 (directions: 31-45)
                                   + Project 1357 (directions: 46-60)
                                   + Project 1377 (directions: 61+)



    And here's what the realindex looks like:
    Bloodloch: Realindex
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ambassador's Ministry         Becoming Undead
    City Credits                  City Portals
    City Shops                    Commodity Shops
    Crafters                      Directions
    Hunting One                   Hunting Three
    Hunting Two                   Index
    Map                           Novice Hunting
    Novice Quests                 Novice Titles
    Personal Dwellings            Research
    Research Benefits             Research Rewards
    Shrines                       The Orrery
    The Tenebrous Glass           Welcome
    Ylem Mist                     Yohanan

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Yes, pleeease. Mix that in with the folder system from other IREs,  where you can group help scrolls into folders and then set perms by folder.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Anyone else like to listen to your Covenanted Guild (the other guild, in other words) argue, and want to chip in but you realise it's not your business?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Shaddus said:
    Anyone else like to listen to your Covenanted Guild (the other guild, in other words) argue, and want to chip in but you realise it's not your business?
    Nope. I chip in because I'm a raging bitch.
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
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