Trolling New Demigods - A Treatise

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Comments

  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    Maligorn said:
    I guess my real question is, are we going to ostracize Camberre or not for his behaviour, like everyone did to Caerlyr, or is there a double standard since he's been part of the Southern alliance. That's what I'm asking.
    The two aren't even close, you're stretching one thin line here in an attempt to try and play the double standards card.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Sorry, all outta popcorn
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • edited October 2014
    Okay so let me begin by saying that I am very happy that (for the most part) People have come together about this issue without being complete douches to one another. That more than anything makes me feel quite blessed for being a part of this community. That being said, couple important points to clarify about this whole thing.

    1. If Arien was in a manse how exactly did Leolamins locate her? If you can't scry someone from inside your manse, then logically speaking, you should not be able to BE scried within it.

    Secondly, and this is the more important point. The Perms WERE SET. This was not Arien's fault, it was a bug, one that will be submitted immediately following this post. The F.F.S. Enterprise(Don't hate me, I love Star Trek) was created by ME initially, and I set the perms to what they have been since that day. Below is a c/p of exactly how the perms are set when I checked them, at 7:25PM EST after Arien was able to get a whistle and check the ship.

    People who meet the following conditions may enter your fulcrux:
      is not a member of the Grand Dominion of Magnagora
        OR
      is not a member of the Free Alliance of Glomdoring
        OR
      is not a member of the Holy Grand Duchy of Gaudiguch

    Warning: there is a rule that begins with "is not" for those who are hit by this permissions set. This can lead to unexpected results. For example, if you say "is member of Celest or is not member of clan Roark's Fanclub", your intent is probably to allow citizens of Celest except for those in the Roark's Fanclub clan. In reality, it will allow anyone who is a citizen of Celest and also anyone who is not a member of the Roark's Fanclub clan. This means Magnagorans who are not a member of the clan would be allowed by this rule. If your intent is to always ban people meeting a certain criteria then you want to use the exceptions syntax, such as "is member of Celest and except is member of Magnagora".


    This was/is clearly a bug in which somehow the Perms did not fire/catch/whatever. These perms have been set since Arien and I purchased the Aethership almost 8(RL) months ago(As I'm sure the Admin can verify). The very next day after this occurred(Wednesday, October 8th) the Aethership in question was missing completely. Arien and I checked both the Aetherplex, SerenPrime, and EtherWilde and the only Manse visible to either of us that was owned by one of us was Winterfell(Our home)

    EDIT: I just logged into my Magnagoran Character at 7:34PM EST and tried to enter the F.F.S. Enterprise as him and had no difficulty despite the Manse Perms being set as they are above. I believe this constitutes proof of a bug
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Shuyin said:
     PS I get kicked out first.
    You don't even play anymore O.o


    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Yeah because it's boring when nothing new has been happening for months.

    It's not hard to keep a hand on the pulse of things though. I login to read news and check tells!
    image
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    edited October 2014
    It's called a scrying mirror. I have one, as do others. It shows everyone who does not have a gem, regardless what plane they are on. Leolamins would often ask me to tell him who I can see is about.

    EDIT: Also, you CAN scry someone from in your manse or in their manse if you're on prime and you have high enough planar to see adjacent planes.

    As to the manse perms, that obviously is a bug, but it's hardly something anyone would know about - if you see a manse you can enter, you presume poor privs being set, not a bug.



  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    edited October 2014
    Btw those perms seem wrong. Or should never be used. Read the warning.

    Edit: what he said
    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.

    People who meet the following conditions may enter your fulcrux:
      is not a member of the Grand Dominion of Magnagora
        OR
      is not a member of the Free Alliance of Glomdoring
        OR
      is not a member of the Holy Grand Duchy of Gaudiguch
     
    Welp, guess we figured this one out :/
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • 3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse set fulcrux perms except member of celest
    You have added a new condition to the permissions list for your fulcrux.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-
    Pressing her hands together before her, Arien bows her head and a golden glow suffuses the area
    around her solar plexus.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse set fulcrux perms except member of hallifax
    You have added a new condition to the permissions list for your fulcrux.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse set fulcrux perms except member of serenwilde
    You have added a new condition to the permissions list for your fulcrux.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse list fulcrux perms
    People who meet the following conditions may enter your fulcrux:
      is not a member of the Grand Dominion of Magnagora
        OR
      is not a member of the Free Alliance of Glomdoring
        OR
      is not a member of the Holy Grand Duchy of Gaudiguch
        ...with the following exceptions...
      except is a member of the Holy Principality of New Celest
        OR
      except is a member of the Grand Dominion of Hallifax
        OR
      except is a member of the Free Forest of Serenwilde

    Warning: there is a rule that begins with "is not" for those who are hit by this permissions set.
    This can lead to unexpected results. For example, if you say "is member of Celest or is not member
    of clan Roark's Fanclub", your intent is probably to allow citizens of Celest except for those in
    the Roark's Fanclub clan. In reality, it will allow anyone who is a citizen of Celest and also
    anyone who is not a member of the Roark's Fanclub clan. This means Magnagorans who are not a member
    of the clan would be allowed by this rule. If your intent is to always ban people meeting a certain
    criteria then you want to use the exceptions syntax, such as "is member of Celest and except is
    member of Magnagora".

    Funny, looks exactly the same including the "OR". Your point was what now again?
  • Inzaias said:

    People who meet the following conditions may enter your fulcrux:
      is not a member of the Grand Dominion of Magnagora
        OR
      is not a member of the Free Alliance of Glomdoring
        OR
      is not a member of the Holy Grand Duchy of Gaudiguch

    Warning: there is a rule that begins with "is not" for those who are hit by this permissions set. This can lead to unexpected results. For example, if you say "is member of Celest or is not member of clan Roark's Fanclub", your intent is probably to allow citizens of Celest except for those in the Roark's Fanclub clan. In reality, it will allow anyone who is a citizen of Celest and also anyone who is not a member of the Roark's Fanclub clan. This means Magnagorans who are not a member of the clan would be allowed by this rule. If your intent is to always ban people meeting a certain criteria then you want to use the exceptions syntax, such as "is member of Celest and except is member of Magnagora".

    This is no bug, this is a work around so you CAN let an enemy in if you so chose to bu you have to be very careful about it. there is even a warning about it, it is clear as day. to stop this instead  try

    manse set fulcrux perms is member of hallifax
    manse set fulcrux perms is member of serenwilde
    manse set fulcrux perms is member of new celest
    manse set fulcrux perms except enemies of hallifax

    EXCEPT will prevent every single enemy, no exceptions even if they are halli, seren or celest, if they are an enemy, they are not getting in.
    The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."

    image
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    There's a syntax which makes each permission setting exclusive and not mutually reliant.

    This is why my manse is set to ignore everyone by default and only allow in people I name.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • Well, there goes the idea of defaulting manse permissions, since this isn't a case of forgetting to set it up because the person didn't know better, but instead is a case of complicated booleans making life difficult for the lay user. Can't really work around that.

    For the discussion on "reasonless" killing, here's my opinion. (I think I mentioned this elsewhere before once as well) If you're a member of an org, you're a target for the org's enemies, period. Any exceptions are granted only at the discretion of the aggressor. This is not a player rule, but rather, the game atmosphere, and how the entire PK system in Lusternia is defined. Unlike Achaea's old rules, we don't have "PK-Rules" (this is one of the things I could take Estarra by his ears and frenchkiss him for) that state "You need a verifiable reason (like being insulted) within X amount of days within X criteria for a valid PK Cause to attempt to attack someone. If you find this right has been violated, you may contact your local attorney and send an official summons via the Issue system to notify the other party of the dispute etc etc..."

    In Lusternia, the Avenger system handles ALL pk-cause disputes. If you get hit upside the head by a karmic curse or an avenging angel, you've broken one of the rules. If you don't, you haven't, end of story. Very few issues outside of this system are ever accepted. Issue-lawyering is literally non-existent in this game thanks to it. The only real exceptions to this system (policed by the Admin themselves) would be newbie griefing. Non-combatants are not covered under this admin-dictated exception to the Avenger system. The emphasis is very important. The only grace granted to non-combatants of any org is a community exception, where there is an unspoken agreement to just let people have the liberty to do what they want for as long as they conform to a certain standard of "non-combat" status.

    There are a few good points about this policy - firstly, and most importantly, it greatly decreases the amount of administrative oversight required on the complaining (AKA whining) part of conflict. Secondly (peripherically), it is a by-product of the Western ideal of respecting other people's boundaries and freedoms. However, there are also quite a few shortcomings. First, and most importantly, it is subjective. What do you define as "non-combatant"? Someone who hasn't learned past virtuoso in their primary? Or someone who hasn't joined a PK event in a week? Or a month? Or a year? Or forever, and once he joins even one, he's always a combatant? Who can enforce this definition? No one. Who can punish people who don't follow this community-made rule? Technically, no one. Effectively, everyone. The emphasis here is also important. If someone wants to grief non-combatants, he is by no means doing anything against the rules for as long as the Avenger system does not punish him. So what can players do? Technically nothing. However, the community has often used ostracising as a tool and a weapon to wrest back initiative on enforcing this community rule. Vigilantism, if you want to make a connection to it. And while that is fine and all, it still doesn't solve the first and most important problem, subjectivism. What do you define as "breaking the rule" now? What constitutes a breaking of said rule? Where do we draw the line? Everyone draws it differently, and thus, how can anyone justify any kind of "punishment" we as a community hand out to anyone at all?

    Something like "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should." means absolutely nothing. Because how do you define what falls under "should" and what falls under "should not"? Common sense? If there's anything common to human sensibility, it's idiocy, and you're trying to define something based on that, good day to you. There is no common ground upon which to agree to "should"s and "should not"s on such a general scale. Any attempt to define in black and white (which is what a statement like this requires) will fall flat because as a community, we have no means to impose that definition on all members of the community, thanks to the the very same idea of respecting other people's boundaries. (See, American freedom-and-liberty isn't all what it's made out to be. Come join the communist side, guys.) If you try to impose YOUR definition on me, then you're basically doing something you "should not" do, based on the exact same sentence above!

    My personal policy is simple. I avoid running foul of the Avenger system, and let newbies do what they want. Everyone else is fair game for me for as long as I can justify it to myself. I usually have more important things to do than to justify to myself why I want to kill someone in a text game, so I usually don't bother going aggressive. However, I reserve the right to do so for any reason I deem acceptable, even if it is because I have a butt itch for that day, or that I missed my mom's curry while away on work. In-game alignment usually serve as more than sufficient a reason for such justifications. If you're a Serenwilder, Lerad is hardly going to want to let you live if an opportunity to kill you arises, much less hang around and chat. When Lerad doesn't actually kill you, I RP it as because he simply didn't see you there. I can't be bothered to come up with some great RP reasoning, and there's really no need to. And if you have a problem with my killing you... well, that's your problem, not mine. Now, not everyone is going to be as gentlemanly as I am and avoid jumping everyone I see who I can. And by my personal policy, I'm not going to judge them until I know their justification for their own actions. If I have a problem with them attacking my friend, I'll just go hit them back. If I can't do it myself (because I'm on a "non-com" character) I'll grab my buddies and do it together, or just have them do it for me.

    Sure, the waste of time and emotional investment, as well as frustration will result from my policy. Not just on the people I so-called "grief", but also for myself at times. Still, that is part of the way this game is designed, based on the Avenger PK system. Between this and the alternative (Achaea's old pk-cause lawyering), I'll gladly shed my tears and bang my keyboard and punch my screen all eight days of the week.

  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Inzaias said:
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse set fulcrux perms except member of celest
    You have added a new condition to the permissions list for your fulcrux.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-
    Pressing her hands together before her, Arien bows her head and a golden glow suffuses the area
    around her solar plexus.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse set fulcrux perms except member of hallifax
    You have added a new condition to the permissions list for your fulcrux.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse set fulcrux perms except member of serenwilde
    You have added a new condition to the permissions list for your fulcrux.
    3965h, 4803m, 4803e, 10p ex-manse list fulcrux perms
    People who meet the following conditions may enter your fulcrux:
      is not a member of the Grand Dominion of Magnagora
        OR
      is not a member of the Free Alliance of Glomdoring
        OR
      is not a member of the Holy Grand Duchy of Gaudiguch
        ...with the following exceptions...
      except is a member of the Holy Principality of New Celest
        OR
      except is a member of the Grand Dominion of Hallifax
        OR
      except is a member of the Free Forest of Serenwilde

    Warning: there is a rule that begins with "is not" for those who are hit by this permissions set.
    This can lead to unexpected results. For example, if you say "is member of Celest or is not member
    of clan Roark's Fanclub", your intent is probably to allow citizens of Celest except for those in
    the Roark's Fanclub clan. In reality, it will allow anyone who is a citizen of Celest and also
    anyone who is not a member of the Roark's Fanclub clan. This means Magnagorans who are not a member
    of the clan would be allowed by this rule. If your intent is to always ban people meeting a certain
    criteria then you want to use the exceptions syntax, such as "is member of Celest and except is
    member of Magnagora".

    Funny, looks exactly the same including the "OR". Your point was what now again?
    The point is that this is still broken and will still let anyone in.  The warning (which you are including) explicitly says so.  I'd suggest reading that warning through again, it may help.
    image
  • basically to explain that manse permission and what happened is this

      is not a member of the Grand Dominion of Magnagora
        OR
      is not a member of the Free Alliance of Glomdoring
        OR
      is not a member of the Holy Grand Duchy of Gaudiguch

    anyone who is not a member of magnagora, so this opens up to anyone but magnagora but then added glom and gaudi so this then opens up to mag (you really only needed on of them). so this is where the mistake is and is why the warning is there. Hope this kinda helps to explain what happened and why you really should be using excepts which there are no go arounds. @Inzaias
    The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."

    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Here are the perms for Aerochem, for instance:

    People who meet the following conditions may enter your fulcrux:
      is a member of the Holy Principality of New Celest
        OR
      is a member of the Free Forest of Serenwilde
        OR
      is a member of the Grand Dominion of Hallifax
        ...with the following exceptions...
      except is an enemy of the Grand Dominion of Hallifax
        OR
      except is an enemy of the Divine Order of Isune, the Aesthete

    This would allow any from those three orgs -unless- they are an enemy of Hallifax or Isune. It's easier to set who is allowed than it is to set who -isn't- allowed, and when you're setting your fulcrux perms, it should likely be set in that order.

    IMO, @Arien here's what you need to set. Feel free to remove some of the top three if you want.

    -----------------------
    People who meet the following conditions may enter your fulcrux:
      is a member of the Holy Principality of New Celest
        OR
      is a member of the Free Forest of Serenwilde
        OR
      is a member of the Grand Dominion of Hallifax
        ...with the following exceptions...
      except is an enemy of the Free Forest of Serenwilde
        OR
      except is an enemy of the Divine Order of Your Order Here
       OR
      except is an enemy of Hartspirit
    --------------
    This will bar the following people:

    People who aren't a member of Celest, Hallifax, or Serenwilde.
    People enemied to your forest no matter who they belong to.
    People who are enemied to your order no matter who they belong to.
    People who are enemied to Hart no matter who they belong to.
    Rogues.

    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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