Current Political Situation/Activity Levels

24

Answers

  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    Wait, we cried about Glom for three fucking years, raiding and camping Nil, turning statues against Mag, in Mag, killing beggars, killing the skeleton captain to take newbies to Spectre, to being a griefing organization. And zero pity was given.

    And you whine and cry and get admin support after 120 real life days?

    If the admin think it's unfair, contact me, don't encourage raiding Nil.

    If the admin think it's unfair, shrub Arcanis.

    I'm starting to care less and less about the whole situation and realize that this whole situation is OOC influenced, from Arxanis and Marcellas hate towards admin favoritism.

    A joke this is, if admin are supporting Glom but not fixing the issue.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    Moral of the story is that Celina, of all people, should handle Mag-Glom diplomacy. Silvanus and I had a lovely discussion. Until I had to leave because several members of glom started implying I was a traitor/doing unsavory things/etc. Which, I think, says a lot about glom politics towards Mag. A 200 year long leader of glom can't speak with Mag without a shit storm starting to brew. I literally had people coming to me for the next few days accusing me of acting without the court's permission and all I did was get silvanus to agree to tell Marcella and arcanis to cool it...which is what they wanted in the first place. I get the RP, but I think it gets carried away with the mag hate.
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  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    My take:

    1.) Marcella has been known for homophobic slurs and outright telling people to kill themselves. That alone is toxic and deserves a permaban. This is her personal fault and not Mags.

    2.) Arcanis ragequit Glom as CL and is thus seeking for revenge. Remember that VA election he started? Yes, that one. Tau and myself have been nominating ourselves(for fun on my part then), and voila! The list of nominees magically got cut down when it got presented to the Court for filtering. The past CL's have never vetoed any nomination.  This has never happened in the entire history of Glom that I've been a part of. That alone sounds very suspicious. If he was out to raise Camberre and himself, allow me to remind everyone that Glom VA elections have always been stringent. We don't raise people outright, every Glom VA has earned it, but they have never meddled with the nominations/etc. Glomdoring's players are not bound to raise someone with a known history of org-hopping, so that's another strike against whatever agenda was going on then.


    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,403 Transcendent
    Sigh, I guess being less than literal won't do, and I'll end up being finger-pointed as the person who gave evidence for "admin favoritism".

    We've gone from calling Glom a crocodile tears org, to calling admin playing favourites with Glom. Really?

    Here, Silvanus, I'll be more explicit about where the OOC metagaming is. There's no IC reason for Glom to be friendly with Mag anymore, and that's entirely Arcanis' fault. The biggest source of metagaming in Glom is how much the older people, myself included, has managed to railroad the status quo of not attacking Mag for as long as this stalemate in the Shadow Court has lasted.

    The whole situation certainly is OOC influenced, from Arcanis and Marcella hate (Marcella maybe a little less, but given what you've posted before, maybe not) to certain Glommies' OOC wish to keep things friendly on the Mag front. Without that, the situation won't exist, and the admin are trying to break that stalemate, one way or another. That's where my "taking pity" comment comes from. They're asking for things to be done based on what should have been done 3 RL months ago: retaliation.

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    edited July 2015
    But, in opposition to what of the mag's are saying about Niico et all...they have been reigned as much as one can reign anyone in without an official agreement. People, notable myself, have been very heavy handed in dictating policy towards Mag in our own spheres of influence. For example, I've banned the entire order from assisting celest or halli against mag or acting against mag directly in any way. I even told Silvanus this. It's just that politics are complicated and bitchy PKers can only control so much of the population. I think that goes for both sides. There's an effort from both sides that the other is not recognizing. No one is willing to admit that any person, even a CL, has unilateral control over their org and its members. I have the luxury of a goddess having the final say and letting me do what I want. A CL, if too heavy handed, get replaced. edit: I've literally threatened to turn have of glom into fleshy throw rugs. I've threatened kethaera with replacement as GC. I think,however vain, I am recognized by outside parties as a political player in glom. So I don't think the criticism is entirely fair.
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  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    edited July 2015
    Except I've been rebuked from Serenwilde Admin. They've banned Serens from talking to Mags. I had to meet with Lisaera just to talk to Seren CL

    So no, I do not believe they are trying to break the stalemate at all. If admin is influencing Glom to be anti Mag and at the same time influencing Seren to be anti Mag, that isn't breaking the stalemate, that's encouraging it.

    By the way, I don't think the admin should have any impact on relations between orgs, but we have met with continued evidence to their meddling.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me. Member Posts: 1,611 Transcendent
    I agree, every org's admin should encourage everyone to strike out on their own and have no alliances.

    IMO, we all have alliances or no one does!
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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    Silvanus said:

    Except I've been rebuked from Serenwilde Admin. They've banned Serena from talking to Mags. I had to meet with Lisaera just to talk to Seren CL

    So no, I do not believe they are trying to break the stalemate at all. If admin is influencing Glom to be anti Mag and at the same time influencing Seren to be anti Mag, that isn't breaking the stalemate, that's encouraging it.

    By the way, I don't think the admin should have any impact on relations between orgs, but we have met with continued evidence to their meddling.

    I don't think this is really the reason Seren is anti - mag. I have always pushed back HEAVILY against overt admin meddling, when it's unfounded. Hell, a major part of my character is being disillusioned about the gods who (in her view) abandoned the forest and then step in and order everyone around like they own the place.

    No, it has more to do with @Arcanis and recently @Ollie chopping down our most sacred trees. It's also just not politically expedient for peace with mag, and hasnt been for a long while, I would know.
  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    Wait, wait, wait. You're saying, Silvanas, that at no point when Glom was griefing Mag that Mag gods didn't instruct/suggest you to hit them back? Barring there being no active admin in your pantheon at the time, I find that a little hard to believe. Sucks if it's true though, and says something about the admin involvement on your guys' side.

    That being said, I've always been on the pro mag/gaudy train as Tark. Still am. But it's getting harder to keep justifying it.
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  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 593 Mythical
    Silvanus said:
    Oh no, see the difference is, those two are not Glomdoring, if they want to raid, they can die too (and Kethaera did raid recently and Niico was only complained about because he was killing novices). And yes, as I've stated multiple times, the leash was only reapplied recently after a complaint was made again. I just know common sense, and if I'm trying to diplomatically resolve something, we probably shouldn't be attacking. So yes, I know which organization has been hostile. The one that has tried to diplomatically resolve something while doing nothing to prevent hostile actions of their own.
    Kethaera doesn't raid things. I have no idea what you're talking about, @Silvanus.
    An accounting of the entirety of Kethaera's Mag conflicts:

    -Never raided Nil, nor attacked any loyal Mag mobs, ever
    -Once helped in a sea battle on Celest's side. Attacked only one person, Marcella
    -Got enemied to Magnagora fairly recently, for attacking a few people in Faethorn that we were told were attacking the fae. 
    -Defended Continuum against Mag and Gaudi with a whole buncha other people. Badly.
    -Frequently get attacked by Marcella, and have for, again, months now. Most of the time I just leave the area.
    -Except that recently I fought her in a pseudo-agreed-upon-duel, and lost. No complaints were made about it from me.
    -Marcella and Arcanis are the only Mag citizens I've ever attacked outside of Domoths/villages

    So... while IC I may be firmly in the anti-Mag faction of Glomdoring, what, exactly, have -I- done to increase any tensions between Mag and Glom, that would be comparable to what Mag has done to Glom? If you want to make stuff up in the game, by all means, go ahead, politics is great fun. OOCly, I don't appreciate lying.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    edited July 2015
    Oh I'm sorry @Kethaera, I wasn't lying, I was wrong. Niico raided Nil, not you, sorry for falsely accusing you. You were enemied for unprovoked attacks on Magnagorans, probably, because you were attempting to help Celest stop the Mag epic cycle, a place where you have no business or obligation to defend (and, honestly, just cruel, but I feel that way for anyone who is working only to disrupt another Epic cycle when you have absolutely nothing to gain).

    But I also find it comical that you think you haven't done anything to increase tensions, but then list a bunch of reasons of you opposing Magnagora that would increase tensions. That's all well and great, and I don't think you've done much to increase tensions, but you have sure done a lot to make sure tensions haven't decreased.


    @Tarkenton: I do not blame any admin for wanting nothing to do with Magnagora, the only real time I remember any Patron intervention was when Daevos (as warlord) was going to be uncitizened for sending Revan to Glomdoring and when Cauthorn was giving Fain bad information, so Fain and his order decided to try and take on Raezon. Magnagora has been filled with a lot of drama and most of the hate/anger has been directed inward. ((Editted: I should note that Drocilla has been extremely helpful with Bloodfaire and other behind the scene things, but no Patron has taken the lead for the direction of Magnagora in a very long time, and definitely not in the way that Lisaera has for Seren in the quote below))

    @Enyalida: The relevant quote from my meeting with Lisaera, when I tried to talk to Serenwilde multiple times, as all meetings before had been refused until this meeting with Lisaera, which led to this quote:

    Gesturing broadly, Lisaera, the Silver Goddess says, "This matter of the
    brand has escalated to the Gods now. We are moving toward a goal, and
    Our followers are helping. The promises you make mean very little to Us
    in the end, for We will succeed. Nothing will stop Us from healing the
    Maeve."

    Magnagora has had zero control over the brand business,and is blamed for it, because Fain and Raezon decided to have a romping 10 real life years ago, and every attempt to fix it has been met with something similar to the above quote. I am sure many Magnagorans would've preferred making peace with Serenwilde, but we have been met with quotes like the above one (or Niina letting me know that Lisaera has banned contact with Magnagorans), so why would we stop attacking Seren if there is zero chance at peace?

    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,403 Transcendent
    I personally prefer the usual good versus evil axis, but I think it's great that in Lusternia, this mix up is actually possible.

    Whatever happens in the future, a proper 3v3 will likely be the best for at least making the competitive aspects even. Which way it will fall... well, when things uncomplicate themselves eventually we'll see. In the meantime, at least there's plenty of drama to be had.

  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    I'm perfectly fine with however the political situation plays out, whatever makes things more interesting in Lusternia.

    What I am not fine with is that Magnagora and Magnagorans get blamed for the situation when it was Glomdoring that broke the agreement between Svorai and myself when it helped Celest take Stewartsville from Magnagora, and then the very next revolt, got mad when Marcella(non city leader, was GuildChamp) said she'd prefer Celest take Acknor over Glomdoring.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • ShedrinShedrin Member Posts: 905 Transcendent
    Dynamic alliances are the best. It's boring when it's the same 3v3 for years. Let's have more drama.
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 593 Mythical
    Silvanus said:
    Oh I'm sorry @Kethaera, I wasn't lying, I was wrong. Niico raided Nil, not you, sorry for falsely accusing you. You were enemied for unprovoked attacks on Magnagorans, probably, because you were attempting to help Celest stop the Mag epic cycle, a place where you have no business or obligation to defend (and, honestly, just cruel, but I feel that way for anyone who is working only to disrupt another Epic cycle when you have absolutely nothing to gain).

    But I also find it comical that you think you haven't done anything to increase tensions, but then list a bunch of reasons of you opposing Magnagora that would increase tensions. That's all well and great, and I don't think you've done much to increase tensions, but you have sure done a lot to make sure tensions haven't decreased.

    I believe I was already enemied by that point, for following up on information that may have been false. If not, it was a completely unrelated thing. But really, I don't care that I was enemied. As for the epic, someone asked if I wanted to help, and Marcella was there. It didn't occur to me until after the fact what was going on, as I knew, at the time, almost nothing about Mag/Celest's epics. Still, I can understand the perception of that being cruel.

    I find it comical, though, that my list included several examples of when Mag citizens have attacked me, unprovoked(or attacked them in the process of defending the commune/Faethorn from their attacks), but you lump all that together with "reasons that Keth has increased tensions." Riiiight. 

    I appreciate the correction, and this isn't a protest about being enemied or raising tensions- at the very least, within the commune, I'm quite willing acknowledge that I do. On an ideological level, my character hates your city and the Taint, and most of Celest/Serenwilde/Hallifax are nicer to her on a personal level. I.E., not attacking or making threats. They're also not getting accused of killing fae, not stealing items needed for our epic, not chopping trees or totems, and generally not being annoying. I'm not opposed to the idea of peace with Mag on an ooc level, but as things stand, I see absolutely no reason why, ic, Keth would want that to happen. So, that's where we are...
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    Laeroc was killed because we were informed that Glom/Seren would be working on Hai'Gloh, and keeping Laeroc dead is the only defense against it. That's the only Fae that has died, Glom may claim to have protection over Faethorn, but then you conveniently ignore the claim to protect that Magnagora/ur'Guard have over the Catacombs and associate to getting attacked in there as being hunted down (though I did inform Glom that Mag's temporary agreement does not apply to you or Niico). 

    You are helping Celest fight in domoths against Magnagora, but that's not increasing tensions.

    You are helping hallifax fight against Magnagora and defending their planes, when under no obligation, but that isn't increasing tensions.

    You assisted in stopping our Epic and note that we stole yours, but that isn't increasing tensions.

    I'm more than willing to admit that Magnagora is probably 60% of the reason for the conflict between Mag/Glom, but Glom acts like that other 40% isn't them, which is the entirety of my argument. In fact, this whole argument in this thread has started because Llandros claimed Glom was responsible for the Arcanis monster, and Ssaliss said Magnagora is responsible for the Marcella monster.

    Both are wrong. 

    (( Note, your side broke the deal first between Svorai and myself, Glom is not blameless. ))


    Also, to clear out some more of this misinformation, Marcella never communicated that she had full support of the Iron Council, in fact, here is the original message:

    Xenthos sent message #5704 at 02/16 21:27:
       Greetings.  I thought I would let you know that Marcella has informed the Glomdoring that Magnagora will declare war on the Glomdoring immediately following the Ascension.  I must say that this is rather a poor attempt at "diplomacy", as it provides us with only one logical course of action.  Regardless of whether or not she currently has the support of the Iron Council in this matter, the fact remains that she is Magnagora's Warlord, and we must take this threat seriously.

    Regardless of our response to Xenthos, the bed was made, there was only one logical course of action.


    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    She did say she had the full support of the Iron Council, and even quoted some of you commenting on the situation. I'll dig up the full quote when I get back home again.
    image
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 593 Mythical
    Silvanus said:
    Laeroc was killed because we were informed that Glom/Seren would be working on Hai'Gloh, and keeping Laeroc dead is the only defense against it. That's the only Fae that has died, Glom may claim to have protection over Faethorn, but then you conveniently ignore the claim to protect that Magnagora/ur'Guard have over the Catacombs and associate to getting attacked in there as being hunted down (though I did inform Glom that Mag's temporary agreement does not apply to you or Niico). 
    I wasn't talking about Laeroc, this was something that came up a couple weeks ago. I wouldn't consider preventing us from doing the Hai'Gloh(if that's what we were doing?) to be Mag making things worse- even IC, that wouldn't be fair. Not sure what you're talking about with conveniently ignoring anything about the Catacombs- Marcella does attack me there often, but that is -not- the only time or place she has. So, invalid argument. And I don't care that she does, as I've not complained about any of her attacks to anyone in Glom officially, "to increase tensions" or otherwise.

    You are helping Celest fight in domoths against Magnagora, but that's not increasing tensions.

    You are helping hallifax fight against Magnagora and defending their planes, when under no obligation, but that isn't increasing tensions.

    You assisted in stopping our Epic and note that we stole yours, but that isn't increasing tensions.
    I...did...not...say...I...wasn't...increasing...tensions...with...Magnagora. In fact, I admitted to doing so, but apparently not taking 100% of the blame is denying it all. We have no treaty. IC, there is no reason not to help Celest with Domoths, and there is benefit for me, personally, for doing so. Keth was until fairly recently a citizen of Hallifax, so, while you may see that too as "increasing tensions", my character has far more reasons to want to get involved in defending them than in participating in Celest Domoths or epics. 


    (( Note, your side broke the deal first between Svorai and myself, Glom is not blameless. ))
    Could be, I wasn't there. The rest I dunno anything about either.

  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    Kethaera said:

    So... while IC I may be firmly in the anti-Mag faction of Glomdoring, what, exactly, have -I- done to increase any tensions between Mag and Glom, that would be comparable to what Mag has done to Glom? If you want to make stuff up in the game, by all means, go ahead, politics is great fun. OOCly, I don't appreciate lying.

    Kethaera said:

    I...did...not...say...I...wasn't...increasing...tensions...with...Magnagora. In fact, I admitted to doing so, but apparently not taking 100% of the blame is denying it all. We have no treaty. IC, there is no reason not to help Celest with Domoths, and there is benefit for me, personally, for doing so. Keth was until fairly recently a citizen of Hallifax, so, while you may see that too as "increasing tensions", my character has far more reasons to want to get involved in defending them than in participating in Celest Domoths or epics. 

    I quite clearly said its been a lot of Magnagora's fault, but I pointed out the tension increasers from Glom, and as by the bolded statements, you can see the contradiction and miscommunication.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    edited July 2015
    Hmm...I never even knew this thread existed until tagged..

    Here are many corrections to accusations stated above:


    1 - No I was not attempting to raise a vernal in Glom with the intention of raising myself, if you look back to posts of nominees, you'll see that I was not in the list (Shocking I know). Glom had no active vernals, with their recently raised one, being Tacita, whom sadly stopped playing soon after. Glom even had several situations when domoths were opened for taking but had no Vernals to take...and no one wanted to do a demi claim, so yeah, vernal was needed.


    2 - As for 'removing nominees', I had literally received the right amount of applicants (cant recall if 2 or 3) to directly move the nominees from a council referendum over whose names should be put for vote, to directly making a referendum for the commune. Then, at the last minute, I received an application from Anita...whom had barely any activity as is -and- could barely attack a weevil without bleeding to death. I then asked (in the nicest way I could think of without pointing out the blaring obvious stupidity of the request) if she would step aside to allow the the referendum to just go through with the names applied. Naturally a shitstorm happened of egos and prides hit and people arrived with tanks full of gasoline to help ignite it. It was basically the last straw of crap I did not want to take.


    3 - Marcella never made a public nor official declaration of war, thus yes, Glom you jumped the gun. Not only that, but even BEFORE Marcella apparently told Ssaliss in private that she will be 'pwning glom', Glom had already for months been neglecting if not rejecting to assist the current alliance with endeavors, likely brought on by the natural enmity of Glom and Mag. Later we find out that Kelly had been buttering up Glom with promises of grandeur if they helped her get TA, thus Glom was biding their time, and quite literally fell out of the alliance JUST before ascension. Please dont try to make this seem as anything else but a clear plot for personal gain for Glomdoring, with attempts of throwing the blame at someone else.


    4. @Enyalida I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I havent chopped a Seren Elder in ages... Though if Ollie is..that is sort of hilarious. Something both communes seem to be forgetting is that we dont -care- about trees. Trees to us are just lumber that should be harvested for its uses, in which we only refrain from doing so for alliances in effect. Additionally, those totems most are crying about are not even for anything except extra power... The totems you all use for reasons of runes and security are likely to never be caught reverted, while all the rest of your elders are just giving free power. Yeah...no city is going to feel pity.



    5. Let's see, what else, as for my 'revenge' to Glom, as Silvanus said, it really is of their own making. Even @Celina earlier mentioned the shitstorm of drama that can come about from the smallest of things and frankly during my time there, I saw Glom as a toxic little place that I'd rather was removed.


    6. As to calls for permabans and shrubs...the admin are not going to shrub nor permaban players for "Being hostile to an org". If anything, the admin try to encourage gameplay and hostility between orgs because it keeps things alive. I know many players enjoy the simple life of their screen opened while they afk-harvest and watch their series on the side, but that play style is not for everyone (nor really encourages activity). Say what you will about my harassment, but during the days it was near daily, Glom erupted with activity, with several waking up and people actually flexing to Druidry and wyrdenwood, just to keep trees up and thwart me from chopping. Compare that kind of activity to the stalemate usually seen in inactive orgs, and you can see why the admin would actually support hostility.




    P.S: As for my famous leash that keeps getting brought up:


    image


    P.SS: You know @Lerad for all your talk of me being the trolly toxic disease that infested Lusternia with an incurable cancer, you seem to be the one doing the constant personal attacks, with some rather risky insults, directed at myself on the forums. I know how much you love my pictures, so I hope you enjoy the current one.
  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 830 Fabled
    Talan said:
    Internal politics are exactly that. Other orgs are not privy to them, and cannot be expected to parse them or fully understand them. If a city leader says, "We're going to war with X-org," then X-org is entitled to take that at face value. People are entitled to take anything and everything a city leader says at face value. He or she is the head of state. The assumption is that the leader speaks with authority.

    If an org has a city leader who makes declarations that the rest of the org doesn't agree with, then that leader needs to be replaced, and aforesaid declarations summarily disavowed. The consequences of failing to do so rest firmly on the shoulders of the people who didn't speak up or act sooner to replace a bad leader.
    I agree with the first part, the second sounds a bit too generalized. Still...

    It could also be said that any leaders or even concerned citizens worth their salt might toss a tell to verify. "Hey, Sidd. Is Steingrim on crack? Are you all really going down this road?" Glom isn't innocent here either. It was certainly not only plotting, but acting against Gaudi before it publicly informed Gaudi they were pulling out of the treaty with Gaudi.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,403 Transcendent
    Arcanis, I've already outlined why I don't engage with your posts anymore. It's not that your arguments are bad (and they are) but because of your messiah complex and gravity defying arrogance. 

    For a person who was apparently making noises about Silvanus' choices for Vernals, you sure are downplaying how, as you have literally stated, you tried to run roughshod over established practices. After receiving an application within the deadline you stipulated yourself (to be technically accurate, it was within the deadline set by aforementioned established practices). Clearly it's not wrong as long as you're the one doing it, right?

    That certainly was the straw that broke the camel's back: our camel's back, because that was after I spent weeks defusing your logic defying tantrums about the proposals other people had to actually make your life easier, even going to the trouble of suggesting compromises. Mind numbing, isn't it? That I had to suggest a compromise to a proposal that was supposed to make your job easier. Really, an absolute waste of my time, in hindsight.

    And now, apparently, you seem to be deluded enough to think any kind of fluctuation in our activity is thanks to your harrassment. Hah. Perhaps you'll want us to thank you for the tides, next? Or maybe the successful Pluto flyby? Or maybe for that baby born healthy down the street? The admin certainly does encourage hostility. But I'm getting tired of having to explain to you the difference in meaning between simple words. The admin certainly have shrubbed people for harrassment before, though, but I won't ask them, or anyone else, to waste their time with you the way I did with mine.

  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,820 Transcendent
    edited July 2015
    Steingrim said:
    Talan said:
    Internal politics are exactly that. Other orgs are not privy to them, and cannot be expected to parse them or fully understand them. If a city leader says, "We're going to war with X-org," then X-org is entitled to take that at face value. People are entitled to take anything and everything a city leader says at face value. He or she is the head of state. The assumption is that the leader speaks with authority.

    If an org has a city leader who makes declarations that the rest of the org doesn't agree with, then that leader needs to be replaced, and aforesaid declarations summarily disavowed. The consequences of failing to do so rest firmly on the shoulders of the people who didn't speak up or act sooner to replace a bad leader.
    I agree with the first part, the second sounds a bit too generalized. Still...

    It could also be said that any leaders or even concerned citizens worth their salt might toss a tell to verify. "Hey, Sidd. Is Steingrim on crack? Are you all really going down this road?" Glom isn't innocent here either. It was certainly not only plotting, but acting against Gaudi before it publicly informed Gaudi they were pulling out of the treaty with Gaudi.
    Wait, what?  We had no treaty with Gaudiguch.  Gaudiguch voted to dissolve it, remember?  I even said that earlier in this thread.
    Silvanus said:

    Xenthos sent message #5704 at 02/16 21:27:
       Greetings.  I thought I would let you know that Marcella has informed the Glomdoring that Magnagora will declare war on the Glomdoring immediately following the Ascension.  I must say that this is rather a poor attempt at "diplomacy", as it provides us with only one logical course of action.  Regardless of whether or not she currently has the support of the Iron Council in this matter, the fact remains that she is Magnagora's Warlord, and we must take this threat seriously.

    Regardless of our response to Xenthos, the bed was made, there was only one logical course of action.
    As much as you go on about Xenthos and his Mag-antipathy, this was actually a case of him giving the Iron Council the benefit of the doubt (he had difficulty believing that Marcella was even silly enough to state this because it is terrible diplomacy, much less that she actually had the support she claimed).  The entire reason he even mentioned that part is because she did in fact claim it.  Of course, with no repudiation (just silence), it left us with exactly what the message stated... one course of action.  I'm not sure what else you considered our course of action to be, but you just quoted that I did in fact give warning ahead of time that if things stayed the way they were we would likely be opposing Magnagora.  Rather contrary to all the claims that we gave no warning at all, eh?

    And, to Arcanis, Kelly didn't even approach us (me at least) until after:
    1) Gaudiguch and the eafs, and
    2) Marcella's declaration of forthcoming war.
    Your corrections seem to be a little flawed with things such as this; Glomdoring waited until the last possible moment for Magnagora to actually say what their stance was, Magnagora declined to do so, and thus we did exactly as we instructed the Iron Council we were going to.  That's not really biding time.  /shrug

    Edit: As a PS, Ssaliss did actually have talks with Gaudy's CL at the time regarding it and asking about Gaudy's stance / take.  My understanding is that she didn't actually inform anyone else in Gaudiguch, because they were completely caught off guard, but those talks were indeed had even though he had no obligation to do so because there was no longer any treaty between the organizations.  So, it would seem as if we did exactly as Steingrim thinks we should have and it still didn't accomplish much.
    image
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 593 Mythical
    edited July 2015
    Silvanus said:
    Kethaera said:

    So... while IC I may be firmly in the anti-Mag faction of Glomdoring, what, exactly, have -I- done to increase any tensions between Mag and Glom, that would be comparable to what Mag has done to Glom? If you want to make stuff up in the game, by all means, go ahead, politics is great fun. OOCly, I don't appreciate lying.

    Kethaera said:

    I...did...not...say...I...wasn't...increasing...tensions...with...Magnagora. In fact, I admitted to doing so

    I quite clearly said its been a lot of Magnagora's fault, but I pointed out the tension increasers from Glom, and as by the bolded statements, you can see the contradiction and miscommunication.
    Comparable to what Mag has done, @Silvanus. I know, you're only reading the words you want to see, but that word was there, too. So let's compare: Domoths, revolts, defending ally's territory... that's all pretty generic conflict, not-Magnagora-specific. If Mag is involved at all, it's because they chose to be, not because anyone was targeting them. On the other hand, members of commune being attacked, trees being chopped, raids- those are things that are SPECIFICALLY TARGETTED AGAINST GLOMDORING. And griefy.


    Oh right, and not all that long ago, Mag attempted to steal a domoth from us, and someone from Hallifax helped defend. HOW DID I FORGET THAT? 


    Bottom line, you're full of crap with comparing me to Arcanis or Marcella. Take a laxative.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    edited July 2015
    They claim im the deluded one with the messiah complex, and then you see things like:


    Xenthos said:


    And, to Arcanis, Kelly didn't even approach us (me at least) until after:
    1) Gaudiguch and the eafs, and
    2) Marcella's declaration of forthcoming war.
    Your corrections seem to be a little flawed with things such as this; Glomdoring waited until the last possible moment for Magnagora to actually say what their stance was, Magnagora declined to do so, and thus we did exactly as we instructed the Iron Council we were going to.  That's not really biding time.  /shrug

    Edit: As a PS, Ssaliss did actually have talks with Gaudy's CL at the time regarding it and asking about Gaudy's stance / take.  My understanding is that she didn't actually inform anyone else in Gaudiguch, because they were completely caught off guard, but those talks were indeed had even though he had no obligation to do so because there was no longer any treaty between the organizations.  So, it would seem as if we did exactly as Steingrim thinks we should have and it still didn't accomplish much.



    Im not sure why we are even bothering trying to get through the overbearing political misweavings and drama that is glomdoring. As always, anything to do with glomdoring is hopeless.

    #PullThePlug
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,820 Transcendent
    Arcanis said:
    They claim im the deluded one with the messiah complex, and then you see things like:


    Xenthos said:


    And, to Arcanis, Kelly didn't even approach us (me at least) until after:
    1) Gaudiguch and the eafs, and
    2) Marcella's declaration of forthcoming war.
    Your corrections seem to be a little flawed with things such as this; Glomdoring waited until the last possible moment for Magnagora to actually say what their stance was, Magnagora declined to do so, and thus we did exactly as we instructed the Iron Council we were going to.  That's not really biding time.  /shrug

    Edit: As a PS, Ssaliss did actually have talks with Gaudy's CL at the time regarding it and asking about Gaudy's stance / take.  My understanding is that she didn't actually inform anyone else in Gaudiguch, because they were completely caught off guard, but those talks were indeed had even though he had no obligation to do so because there was no longer any treaty between the organizations.  So, it would seem as if we did exactly as Steingrim thinks we should have and it still didn't accomplish much.



    Im not sure why we are even bothering trying to get through the overbearing political misweavings and drama that is glomdoring. As always, anything to do with glomdoring is hopeless.

    #PullThePlug
    You're not trying to get through anything, you're quite enjoying causing most of the drama yourself. :p
    image
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,769 Transcendent
    Someone thought Glom/Seren was trying to do the hai'Gloh?

    Do any of us even remember how to do it?
    :-??
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    Everiine said:
    Someone thought Glom/Seren was trying to do the hai'Gloh?

    Do any of us even remember how to do it?
    :-??
    All it takes is for one manly trill to give Glomdoring a moonhart nut.
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,769 Transcendent
    Siam said:
    Everiine said:
    Someone thought Glom/Seren was trying to do the hai'Gloh?

    Do any of us even remember how to do it?
    :-??
    All it takes is for one manly trill to give Glomdoring a moonhart nut.
    Psh, you know full well it takes more than that :P . That's just the part everyone remembers.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me. Member Posts: 1,611 Transcendent
    No, the part everyone remembers involves killing smobs.
    image
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