The inner sea and the Cay

Aeldra

So, I've been pondering since last week whether or not I should post anything on this, but yesterday finally filled the bottle for me and so, here's my idea / input / request thing. I was pondering here and there where to put this, but as I actually want this about Ideas for improvement, I decided posting it here. If it's a little rant-ey here and there, forgive me, I'm already quite angry at that particular quest chain. Some of you show remarkable patience with it and all people doing it, that I can but admire.

First: The People

Before I start on the actual quests, I want to give a shout out to everybody on any 'side' that's been working on those quests in the inner sea and sea of despair. I see a lot of desperate measures involved and I would ask if we could maybe step down on our armaments a little? Like cut people some benefit of the doubt lag spike whatever. I've seen people on both sides spamming 'get item', while waiting for something to drop. It's fine by me if you do want to have the decisions for quests made by who has the quickest fingers, I just find that behavior frustrating and wanted to ask if we can not agree to a more civil standpoint in competing quests.

Second: The turtles and the dolphins

Actually, I am quite fine with both of them. They are doable in a moderate time frame and while repetitive not challenging enough that you can't take someone with you and have fun RPing while you do them. Maybe someone from Mag can chime in and give their perspective, but generally would say they are good. Just included for completeness sake.

Third: Warrior kelpies and mutant kelpies

I spent two hours solving the puzzle involved and putting in the solution. Or rather putting in the solution. I really really would beg for someone to at least change the medallions so you can target them by letter. GET C FROM HOPPER, PUT C IN TABLET would be some major improvement. Doesn't help to have done all that's needed only to come up to Lanikai being killed in the five seconds you took from going to point a to point b, but see below. Only request here: Please rethink way to put in solution for the puzzle, maybe a little  interface improvement. I think it targets Mags as well as Celest?

Fourth: They Cay quest

I think my major critique on that quest is not particularly the length of it nor it's complexity (lengthy quests can be fun and the steps look fun in on itself), but the amount of time that goes into it every single day, if you take it seriously. So, my main suggestion would be to have a 'cooldown' period on the cay where it stays neutral and only neutral. e. G: It's half a day for the one who won it, then it's neutral for 16 hours, then it's doable again. Importance in the cooldown period would, for me, be that it shifts the 'opening' time out so that it doesn't open up to the play time for the same people always, meaning a greater range of people get a chance of doing it at a regular basis. Meaning:

1. Day, 8 am : Aeldra does the cay for Celest. Locked for 12 hours
1. Day, 8 pm : Cay shifts to neutral, on cooldown for 16 hours.
2. Day 12 am : Cay can be done, done by Erithyl for Magnagora
2. Day: 12 pm: Cay shifts to neutral, on cooldown for 16 hours.
3. Day: 4 pm: Cay's open again.

The importance for me here is to allow people some slack and allow for a wider range of participants. Currently the cay is always done in the same 12 hour slices, which I think is bad.

Fifth: NPC killing

It is ridiculously easy for both sides to ruin the quests by killing the NPC's involved in the last second. While I generally don't mind quests being ruined, I do not enjoy having a quest ruined in the 'last second'. Therefore I have been thinking if people would have ideas what could be done to empower the npcs involved just for the end of the quest lines? Like, maybe, if you are more then 80% done with a quest, the npcs involved become significantly stronger? Or maybe generally allowing both sides to protect their quest npcs once every few months?

Sixth: was too long, help

- The cay chapter. Not sure how to shorten it.
- Cut each other a little slack
- Maybe address npcs being killed on last second to prevent quest completion

I would really love to hear input, but please, try to keep it rant free. I would especially love to read some input from the 'other side' of the quest, as I don't know how Magnagora's side of it looks.

edit: typos fixing

Tremula

I've done both sides of the Cay (though I never did get the honours line for Mag), and I'll go ahead and be happy that this one thing is skewed towards Magnagora.

It seems it's a lot harder for Magnagora to do a lot of things comparative to Celest, from their power quest to the Sea Battle. I mean, you have Celest digging up sand, taking the material to a denizen, taking that item to be refined further, and then wandering around the city to find supplicants and then lead them to the appropriate tabernacle. Takes all of ten minutes, if you're really slow about it. Then you go to Magnagora, where you have the potential to get more power, yes, but have to spend at least ten minutes bashing to get the material to take to a denizen, which goes to be refined further, and then wandering around to find beggars (who can bug themselves by moving out of a room after accepting the item) and eventually getting spikes to drive into a giant brain. 

Then you have dolphins that can be protected with pretty necklaces to prevent corpses from being picked up and sea turtles (to double the body count, never really paid much attention to what else they could do), but sea wolves are scarce and can't be protected in any way. Sure, the mobs that form these essential beasts can be killed and re-made, but Lanikai reforms automatically where Ladantine has to be raised through a quest that is disrupted extremely easily. There were times in Magnagora where Ladantine would be down for almost a real life week because people would disrupt his raising quest every hour on the hour.

But finally, the Cay (a pivotal turning point for the Sea Battle) seems to be skewed slightly towards Magnagora. Their bashing can be done in almost a quarter of the time it takes Celest & Friends to influence, and since nothing on the island gets you enemied you can just bash everything until you're content. If you want to mess up the Light side? Just run around and give the spheres paranoia, they're weak to it anyway! 

Now, I don't want to sound like I'm complaining too terribly hard, especially since I've not done all of Celest's epic quest before, but the manic want to be done (at least from Magnagora's side) comes from being hunted and killed constantly trying to release Gorgogs and taking anywhere from one hour to three IRL days to raise Marani (and gods help you if you forget to Taint that pentacle, you'll get enemied to everywhere in the Basin).

Yes, Cay can be especially annoying for people who are dragged in and aren't emotionally invested, but burning the midnight oil to make sure you have it is a cakewalk compared to the combat and puzzle you just went through.

Since I've been doing Cay more often, though, I would like to say it would be nice to see mobs you don't need to kill enemy you for doing it. Make an unenemying mob that's relatively easy to get amnesty from, but do make there be a punishment for just killing everything because you didn't get the talisman this time. Maybe lower the amount of spheres it takes to fill the Light talisman as well. (please)

Lorah

Influencing v Bashing is pretty harsh though.
Killing mobs gives you critical strikes, allows you to use all kinds of consumables to speed the process and you also get damageshift and weakness typing. It's also very hard to stop someone from killing things except for scooping in and, by sheer luck, getting the kill yourself. Killing people is hardly viable since the Cay doesn't have an enemy situation.

Influencing is stopped by debating, diverting and attacking the mob with any form of attack, including newbie kicks. It also is far slower given that you can't damageshift or crit on influence attacks so it's definitely easier to foil that way. 

Lavinya

Don't forget, for most Mags who have ever helped with the sea battle, they will be enemied to the inner sea thanks to needing to kill dolphins. To get to Cay, you have to walk through that enemy territory. All it takes is for someone to zap you on that walk through, and you're free to be killed because Avechna doesn't protect you, because of the enemied area. It would be great if there was a way to sneak there without going through the sea. Like, a secret tunnel under balach swamp that emerges in the middle of the Cay.

I can't really talk about which side is easier or not, they both have their up sides and down sides, but I do know Celest has always been far more avid in turning the Cay, and constantly have brought in help from their allies. Most people in Magnagora find it frustrating to not only be competing with Celest to complete their epic, but also Serens, Hallis, and even Gloms. It would be a far better 'gentleman's agreement' if outsiders chose to not involve themselves in it, but hey, some people just love to come for a fight.

No side is going to stop working on the quest so the other side can do their bit. This is a conflict quest, and it is big conflict. It's a big deal, to get it finished - massive power for your org and your orgbix. Mag doesn't want Celest to have it. Celest doesn't want Mag to have it. I admit it's frustrating and it would be nice to be able to do your thang in peace, but it's never going to happen whilever both the cities need to compete over the same thing to finish their epic.

Akyaevin

If someone wants to interrupt Cay they can, whether it's influence or bashing, unless you come in when they're pretty much already done (i.e. up to the underwater maze). Cay is very very interruptable.

Azula

Lavinya said:

Don't forget, for most Mags who have ever helped with the sea battle, they will be enemied to the inner sea thanks to needing to kill dolphins. To get to Cay, you have to walk through that enemy territory. All it takes is for someone to zap you on that walk through, and you're free to be killed because Avechna doesn't protect you, because of the enemied area. It would be great if there was a way to sneak there without going through the sea. Like, a secret tunnel under balach swamp that emerges in the middle of the Cay.

Curio Collection Light Set . It's there, just pointing it out

Lavinya

I'm not sure if having to complete a curio set is quite the same as having a fair means of neither side going through enemy territory

Aeldra

Lavinya said:

No side is going to stop working on the quest so the other side can do their bit. This is a conflict quest, and it is big conflict. It's a big deal, to get it finished - massive power for your org and your orgbix. Mag doesn't want Celest to have it. Celest doesn't want Mag to have it. I admit it's frustrating and it would be nice to be able to do your thang in peace, but it's never going to happen whilever both the cities need to compete over the same thing to finish their epic.

I for one was never talking about "in peace", I was talking about the level of interruption, in my eyes, being ridiculous. Also, I think the cay needs a cool down period where neither side can work nor have the benefits for it. Plus, a third, I think that there's nothing more frustrating then having worked 2 hours to find out someone killed the npc you need in the last second with two blows. I think much of this is how people behave towards each other.

My concern's not immediately the cay alone, but the whole mixture of quests involved there. Of course, in character, no group will ever let the other have their way, but doesn't mean we can't be fair and respectful as the players of those characters, without ruining the IC goals of said characters. But that's not up to me to decide, I'll adjust accordingly. I have no morale problem with sneaking up on people and typing "get oyster" a 1000 times just to snatch the oyster the moment it drops after they've done the kill. I merely ask if that's the way we want to play this game together.

Lavinya

Aeldra said:

Lavinya said:

No side is going to stop working on the quest so the other side can do their bit. This is a conflict quest, and it is big conflict. It's a big deal, to get it finished - massive power for your org and your orgbix. Mag doesn't want Celest to have it. Celest doesn't want Mag to have it. I admit it's frustrating and it would be nice to be able to do your thang in peace, but it's never going to happen whilever both the cities need to compete over the same thing to finish their epic.

I for one was never talking about "in peace", I was talking about the level of interruption, in my eyes, being ridiculous. Also, I think the cay needs a cool down period where neither side can work nor have the benefits for it. Plus, a third, I think that there's nothing more frustrating then having worked 2 hours to find out someone killed the npc you need in the last second with two blows. I think much of this is how people behave towards each other.

My concern's not immediately the cay alone, but the whole mixture of quests involved there. Of course, in character, no group will ever let the other have their way, but doesn't mean we can't be fair and respectful as the players of those characters, without ruining the IC goals of said characters. But that's not up to me to decide, I'll adjust accordingly. I have no morale problem with sneaking up on people and typing "get oyster" a 1000 times just to snatch the oyster the moment it drops after they've done the kill. I merely ask if that's the way we want to play this game together.

You have to remember, both sides have been working hard for it. In many cases, it's been RL days and days and days of working on the sea battle alone. Magnagora currently has a waiting list, with some people on it that have been working on it for weeks to try and finish their epic. I'm sure that happens in Celest too. Desperation doesn't encourage people to be patient. I know ideally you'd think we as players would turn a blind eye sometimes but....history has shown that just doesn't happen. And frankly, the ones that do show respect in this manner will be the ones that lose out, because you can't force people to play nice, sadly.

Aeldra

Lavinya said:

Aeldra said:

Lavinya said:

No side is going to stop working on the quest so the other side can do their bit. This is a conflict quest, and it is big conflict. It's a big deal, to get it finished - massive power for your org and your orgbix. Mag doesn't want Celest to have it. Celest doesn't want Mag to have it. I admit it's frustrating and it would be nice to be able to do your thang in peace, but it's never going to happen whilever both the cities need to compete over the same thing to finish their epic.

I for one was never talking about "in peace", I was talking about the level of interruption, in my eyes, being ridiculous. Also, I think the cay needs a cool down period where neither side can work nor have the benefits for it. Plus, a third, I think that there's nothing more frustrating then having worked 2 hours to find out someone killed the npc you need in the last second with two blows. I think much of this is how people behave towards each other.

My concern's not immediately the cay alone, but the whole mixture of quests involved there. Of course, in character, no group will ever let the other have their way, but doesn't mean we can't be fair and respectful as the players of those characters, without ruining the IC goals of said characters. But that's not up to me to decide, I'll adjust accordingly. I have no morale problem with sneaking up on people and typing "get oyster" a 1000 times just to snatch the oyster the moment it drops after they've done the kill. I merely ask if that's the way we want to play this game together.

You have to remember, both sides have been working hard for it. In many cases, it's been RL days and days and days of working on the sea battle alone. Magnagora currently has a waiting list, with some people on it that have been working on it for weeks to try and finish their epic. I'm sure that happens in Celest too. Desperation doesn't encourage people to be patient. I know ideally you'd think we as players would turn a blind eye sometimes but....history has shown that just doesn't happen. And frankly, the ones that do show respect in this manner will be the ones that lose out, because you can't force people to play nice, sadly.

Sadly that is often the case, but sometimes a reminder does help and that was mostly anything I was counting on. I know some people will never play nice and never realizing that from an OOC point of view, they are playing a game together. It's sad, but a truth. Still opt to be an idealist on those things :-)

Eritheyl

Easy fix: dramatically cut the quest timer. I'd be much happier if we could fight over it all hours of the day instead of having it stuck in Celest/Mag mode. If Celest finishes it, sure, let them keep the bonus until it's reset by Mag, but don't cut it prematurely for an imposed neutrality.

Also, don't worry. I don't punch 'take oyster' a thousand times, it was just once

Aeldra

Eritheyl said:

Easy fix: dramatically cut the quest timer. I'd be much happier if we could fight over it all hours of the day instead of having it stuck in Celest/Mag mode. If Celest finishes it, sure, let them keep the bonus until it's reset by Mag, but don't cut it prematurely for an imposed neutrality.

Also, don't worry. I don't punch 'take oyster' a thousand times, it was just once

Heh. Well, I was not  talking about you, though you did steal an oyster from under my nose.. I've hang around the cay with quite some people and I've seen many 'very quick' actions that I wouldn't been able to perform that quickly.

Enyalida

Triggers! When bothered by someone, I've hung around them in dreambody with an envelop trigger to foil a quest before. 

Arcanis

Im so glad someone made a thread about this, as I was just about to start one up. The concept of the Sea battle as a prerequiste for Mag and Celest to do their epic is extremely painful from all the additions put into the Sea battle. I'll explain below.



Making Seawolves:


Making seawolves is a painful task, especially since most fighters now have spectacles that tell you when an enemy enters, as well as a telescope for farscout. That aside, to make a seawolf you are required to kill dolphins, which will make you an enemy to the inner sea, which makes you free game for anyone there, and trust me when I say people -will- take advantage of this.


You then take the dolphin to Ladantine...whom is usually dead, thus requiring a quest to resurrect him. You have to walk around the sea of despair (last level) killing coffin fish, with currents washing you around because frankly Mag wasnt made for water environment! You find the pearl, you have to find a vampire squid...if some troll didnt come in to kill them all. You give the pearl to the squid then feed it corpses, and only when it has been fed enough can you turn a seawolf.


The easiest way to block this? SImply do a -RIDICULOUSLY- easy quest involving gathering seashells from the inner sea and making them into necklaces for dolphins. Somehow, and please someone explain to me the logic, the necklaces make the dolphins invulnerable and unable to be killed...


Compare this to making Sea turtles, in which you already have 3 that respawn on their own. Turtles can be done by anyone by simply feeding sharks to a golden turtle and taking it to lay an egg.


Cay:
-------


The mother of pains. When this quest was first added, it wasnt seen as much a problem since the Epic quest chains didnt exist back then, and it was simply seen as a way of thwarting Ladantine from taking over Inner Sea. Now...Now it has become the center of -everything- concerning the last epic quest. Sadly the Cay is located within the Inner sea, which is enemy territory for most Mags, but located just outside Celest, this makes it a little more difficult for Mag.

This quest is so influencial, that everything else is seen as unimportant.

What Cay requires:

- Kill the crabs to harvest the oysters, there are 6
- Get the pearls from the oysters, fend off the seagulls (that require a number of hits to leave)
- Places the pearls in the depressions to summon the Otters
- Kill the 6 otters to get the talisman pieces. Reform the talisman
- Kill 50 starfish/ Influence 50 light spheres to empower the talisman.
- Put the talisman in the Dais in order to open up the magic puzzle
- Solve the magic puzzle in order to get the Urn. Now begin to turn the urn constantly until it is in the right direction so you can push it around. Push the urn to the 15 elementals scattered around the Isle.
- Influence each elemental with weakening until they dive into the Urn
- Push the urn to the 3 fountain heads to open up passage to the maze. (At this point, you cannot be thwarted)
- Enter the maze and kill 49 snakes scattered around
- Turn the pearl and push it around to solve the maze.
- Finally finish the quest by genuflecting before the Dais.


During all this up to the point of having collected 15 elemental, the quest can be easily disrupted a number of ways, and frankly should be from how powerful the effect is.


Turned for Mag, in Inner sea:

- Removes Lanikai and kelpies
- Removes ability to make turtles
- Releases Mist lurkers that are aggro to anyone
- Can no longer turn seawolves back to dolphins because Lanikai is gone


Turned for Celest, in Inner sea:

- Makes Dolphins and Turtles no longer leave a corpse, and instead turn into mist
- Misted turtles still count towards sea battle
- Removes ability to make seawolves since cannot collect dolphins



So basically as you see, doing Cay nearly guarantees you victory in the Sea battle, and thus why it is so contested...but frankly it is far more irksome and tiresome than needed. Cay has become the core focus behind wanting your org members to do their epic and people are exhausting themselves attempting to do it for them. We are standing on Cay and trying to push it one way or the other simply to try and hope a friend of ours can get their line. No other Org has to go through the trouble and turmoil that is the Sea battle as Mag and Celest do. Frankly it just breaks down morale and tires people out.

The worst part? The sea battle happens once every 5 days or so, which means it is near a perpetual fight of tug of war as everyone keeps trying to turn it back and forth in their favor until the sea battle comes.

Arcanis

(Separated posts for neatness)


SOLUTIONS:

What I'd request? Frankly a lot of us wouldnt mind seeing Cay taken out of the equation, but there would still be the tiresome back and forth over simply trying to complete your epic. My solutions are this:


SOLUTION 1:

Introduce a secondary option of making Medusa (Mag epic) and Lantern Fish (Celest epic), which are needed to do the last quest and are only released with a sea battle victory. The second option would have to naturally be an intricate quest, but can be done to force Ladantine and lanikai to release these creatures needed to do the epic. Technically 5 Medusa and Lantern Fish are needed in order to do the last epic, so I suppose it could be done that completing this secondary option would release 1 at a time per completion? (That is if it naturally would not make the epics reset).


Solution 2:

Introduce a secondary epic quest that is doable or perhaps even replace the Sea battle with this.


Suggestions for Magnagora:

- The Throne of Urlach.
This could easily be turned into a epic quest as it has so many ties towards Magnagora in theme and flavor.

- Releasing the 'Horrors' of Castle Djarrakh
Undead themed, much like the sea battle, and the necromentate can chow down on all the skeletal warriors down there. Also a long quest (if dont from the beginning)

- Raising the Cloier
I could definitely see the Necromentate munching down on this

- Solving Shattered Earth quest
Both Mag themed and a difficult questline

- Gutter zombies (Thanks to Nilofer for reminding me)
A strongly Mag themed quest which also is connected to its past and sufficiently challenging.


Suggestions for Celest:

- Freeing the Pegasus Aestra, within the once temple of Hajamin
A beautiful quest with a lot of historical importance for Celest, not to mention painful to do.

- Spire of Dionamus
A source of healing and purity for all living, not too difficult but is painful and can easily be turned into an epic.

- The Glacier Sea
Celest themed and also a painful quest

Thalkros

To be fair the only thing that really needs done and has been something that I know most Mags have wanted for awhile is to have Cay's ability to influence wolves/turtles removed. With Cay taken out of the equation you are left with still a hefty amount of legwork to do, but not require people to essentially log and spend their entire day of playing doing Cay and nothing else. Without Cay we would still have the Kelpie quest, sea shells, empowering Ladantine, keeping Lanikai dead, and the process of raising Ladantine as a means of Epic Quest difficulty that doesn't require a ridiculous extra quest. 

If anything, tweak the Ladantine potion quest to be much more difficult but then all it to make him invulnerable for X hours and then provide Lanikai with a similar quest defense(if there isn't one already, but I think Cay gives her this defense?) That would pretty much solve the draining redundancy that is the final stage.

As far as 'replacement suggestions' go Arcanis, a lot of those are not very good ideas.

Shattered Earth is downright impossible to do unless it's been magically hotfixed, just ask Akyaevin.(I feel like Glacier Sea is the Celest version of this, isn't it? Though the ability for it to be done compared to Earth is questionable)

Throne is by far leaps and bounds more easily interrupted than Cay considering all you have to do is take the quest items while someone is working on it and put them in the wrong order and viola, that or just bash out rockeaters for tablets during your normal hunting runs since it's not enemy territory.

Aestra literally takes you all of about 10 minutes to do, the hardest part being if you need a second person to serve as a teleport target for opening the entrance. Not really worthy of a final stage Epic Quest.

Spire of Dionamus is in the grief quest category already, which was made worse by giving it a curio drop. Please don't support extra reasons to do this horrible horrible quest.

Maligorn

Without even reading the thread, I just want to say that I can never fully get into my Celestian or Magnagoran alts because of the sea battle. Seems incredibly tedious and unfun to me.

Tridemon

There is absolutely no way to protect Lanikai from being killed. She comes back on her own when killed, but the Cay being turned to Celest only helps the turtles and dolphins.

Enyalida

Ask @Akyaevin? I once spent literally 20 hours trying to do Shattered Earth back during IronHart when an event seemed to strongly point at it. Both of the elemental quests are utter nightmares of bad, buggy puzzles that void at least an hour and a half or more of work by random chance.

Thalkros

Haha, see.. @Enyalida knows the struggle at least. It's best we don't ever speak of Shattered Earth. Too Soon.

Silvanus

You protect Lanikai the same way as Ladantine, you sit in the room. Also, both can be killed in one hit (lucky with crits) or getting a massive crit and damage shift it. The entire sea battle is a bitch and has needed reworking for awhile. Before it used to be simple, then more complex layers kept getting added to make it more interesting, but instead it just discouraged and destroys morale. Remove Cays impact and make Carai Caroo quest easier to accomplish, and voila.

Arcanis

It's true, last time Taevyn doing his Taevyning killed Ladantine with a kick.

Arcanis

So it seems the concept of Cay and frankly all miserable quests has still gone unanswered. I recall some time ago that when I asked if the overwhelming influence some quests have on the world, and the hassle that players feel they have to undergo to remove them, would ever be considered changing, and Saesh at the time said it was later on his to-do list to do something along the lines of quests having a set time they would remain raised (like a day or two) rather than neverending. Is this still the case or?

Shaddus

I'm heavily confused. Is Lanikai about the same strength as Ladantine?

Akyaevin

I believe Lanikai is weaker, but she repops naturally whereas Ladantine requires an interruptible quest (although you can theoretically bring Ladantine back faster because of the quest). And Ladantine is not so much stronger that you cannot one-shot him with a good crit (or a pre-prepared crit). And you can't defend either of them unless the killer is already enemied.

It's kind of a wash ... unless Celest has a tracker and grabs the coffin fish.

And it doesn't feel like a wash when you're running around the bottom of the SoD for the fifth time in a day searching for coffin fish and getting pushed around by currents.

Aeldra

Akyaevin said:

And it doesn't feel like a wash when you're running around the bottom of the SoD for the fifth time in a day searching for coffin fish and getting pushed around by currents.

Mirror side for that's on celest. Not the most fun activity trying to locate stuff on the four levels of the inner sea while currents shove you where they please. esp. if you have to constantly have to do it. I think, with a little bit of thoughtfulness, those quests could be improved to be meaningful and less taxing for both sides. I think I'd like that.

Tremula

Aeldra said:

Akyaevin said:

And it doesn't feel like a wash when you're running around the bottom of the SoD for the fifth time in a day searching for coffin fish and getting pushed around by currents.

Mirror side for that's on celest. Not the most fun activity trying to locate stuff on the four levels of the inner sea while currents shove you where they please. esp. if you have to constantly have to do it. I think, with a little bit of thoughtfulness, those quests could be improved to be meaningful and less taxing for both sides. I think I'd like that.

Celest's is to protect their turtles and dolphins, not Lanikai (who respawns naturally). Magnagora's is extremely similar, but they have to re-raise the person who can make their seawolves, Ladantine, who doesn't respawn naturally.

Shaddus

Doesn't turning the cay against Celest technically keep you from raising the spire/doing beacons due to it removing Lanikai, whereas turning the cay against Magnagora doesn't keep you from doing jars?


Yes, I realise the quests aren't supposed to be identically easy. That's a bit of a harsh disparity though.

Everiine

Arcanis said:

So it seems the concept of Cay and frankly all miserable quests has still gone unanswered. I recall some time ago that when I asked if the overwhelming influence some quests have on the world, and the hassle that players feel they have to undergo to remove them, would ever be considered changing, and Saesh at the time said it was later on his to-do list to do something along the lines of quests having a set time they would remain raised (like a day or two) rather than neverending. Is this still the case or?

Back of the line . Our quest first :P . We've been lobbying longer.

Tridemon

Shaddus said:

Doesn't turning the cay against Celest technically keep you from raising the spire/doing beacons due to it removing Lanikai, whereas turning the cay against Magnagora doesn't keep you from doing jars?


Yes, I realise the quests aren't supposed to be identically easy. That's a bit of a harsh disparity though.

Yep, there's absolutely no way to light the beacons or raise the spire in order to begin our epic if the cay is fouled. We also can't take down Ladantine in the Ship of the Dead if they win the sea battle, without Lanikai. He's invincible without being weakened by lighting up the spire.

Arcanis

Tridemon said:

Shaddus said:

Doesn't turning the cay against Celest technically keep you from raising the spire/doing beacons due to it removing Lanikai, whereas turning the cay against Magnagora doesn't keep you from doing jars?


Yes, I realise the quests aren't supposed to be identically easy. That's a bit of a harsh disparity though.

Yep, there's absolutely no way to light the beacons or raise the spire in order to begin our epic if the cay is fouled. We also can't take down Ladantine in the Ship of the Dead if they win the sea battle, without Lanikai. He's invincible without being weakened by lighting up the spire.

True but it is extremely simple to weaken Ladantine, so much so that he is usually dropped an hour after being raised. Removing Marilynth however, requires harvesting of devil fish, in which there are 20 (?) and you are required to harvest 4 sets, in which you have to keep Ladantine alive during all this time, else reset.


Frankly just remove Cay and everyone will be happy.