Also I have to admit, any form of debate that celest has it harder is nullified by the fact the entire sea battle is involved in the sea, where celest has a major advantage. You have no idea how annoying it is to be wish-washed around trying to collect things while an aquamancer can just walk by unhindered and pick everything up before you. Additionally, both Cay and Carai are IN the inner sea, barely a few rooms away from Celest, and since everyone these days has Awareness thanks to that lovely artifact, there is usually some troll standing in Inner sea sensing when enemies enter then using a trigger to relay it to alliance clan that they have. They are usually afk or mindless to boot because it takes no skill now to keep an area watched.
I honestly did not realise that Cay being turned prevents your beginning epic quests. No wonder you guys work on it so religiously. That's really rough and I don't think particularly fair.
So it seems the concept of Cay and frankly all miserable quests has still gone unanswered. I recall some time ago that when I asked if the overwhelming influence some quests have on the world, and the hassle that players feel they have to undergo to remove them, would ever be considered changing, and Saesh at the time said it was later on his to-do list to do something along the lines of quests having a set time they would remain raised (like a day or two) rather than neverending. Is this still the case or?
Reviewing all quests that players feel should be looked at, and even just reviewing the Cay by itself, is a monumental task and would take a huge amount of time. I can't commit that the administration will or will not review Cay and other quests but it isn't a simple solution or anything that will happen quickly. We appreciate your patience and we encourage you to utilise the forums for discussing perceived problems and possible solutions.
So it seems the concept of Cay and frankly all miserable quests has still gone unanswered. I recall some time ago that when I asked if the overwhelming influence some quests have on the world, and the hassle that players feel they have to undergo to remove them, would ever be considered changing, and Saesh at the time said it was later on his to-do list to do something along the lines of quests having a set time they would remain raised (like a day or two) rather than neverending. Is this still the case or?
Reviewing all quests that players feel should be looked at, and even just reviewing the Cay by itself, is a monumental task and would take a huge amount of time. I can't commit that the administration will or will not review Cay and other quests but it isn't a simple solution or anything that will happen quickly. We appreciate your patience and we encourage you to utilise the forums for discussing perceived problems and possible solutions.
Since it seems Cay causes grief for both sides and both would prefer it did not exist, why not simply disable Cay?
A simple solution would be to remove the Urn (if you wish to purposely break it), hidden behind the puzzle-door. No more Cay, everyone is happy.
So it seems the concept of Cay and frankly all miserable quests has still gone unanswered. I recall some time ago that when I asked if the overwhelming influence some quests have on the world, and the hassle that players feel they have to undergo to remove them, would ever be considered changing, and Saesh at the time said it was later on his to-do list to do something along the lines of quests having a set time they would remain raised (like a day or two) rather than neverending. Is this still the case or?
Reviewing all quests that players feel should be looked at, and even just reviewing the Cay by itself, is a monumental task and would take a huge amount of time. I can't commit that the administration will or will not review Cay and other quests but it isn't a simple solution or anything that will happen quickly. We appreciate your patience and we encourage you to utilise the forums for discussing perceived problems and possible solutions.
Since it seems Cay causes grief for both sides and both would prefer it did not exist, why not simply disable Cay?
A simple solution would be to remove the Urn (if you wish to purposely break it), hidden behind the puzzle-door. No more Cay, everyone is happy.
I love how everyone has been complaining about the mechanics of Cay and its existence, yet I get disagrees with the idea of disabling it.
It might be more that you're advocating just deleting part of the game. Actually worse, you're proposing that a crucial step part way through a quest is removed. That's a really fantastic way to frustrate a lot of people. We have enough quests that just don't work without making more intentionally.
It might be more that you're advocating just deleting part of the game. Actually worse, you're proposing that a crucial step part way through a quest is removed. That's a really fantastic way to frustrate a lot of people. We have enough quests that just don't work without making more intentionally.
The idea is, rather than have to use up so much coding time to try and figure out or blow up Cay, that they could simply make the quest undo-able for the time being until they have more free time on their hands. This wouldnt be the first time the administration has purposely broken a quest do make people stop doing it.
We could just slap an enemy status on killing elementals\hittingspheres\something? or something like that. I'd feel less frustrated if I had a way to just stop people from interfering. Put the guy who removes the enemy status in the area unlocked by finishing the Cay so that you can't reset your status until after you've completed the quest, just to stop people from getting unenemied over and over.
It might be more that you're advocating just deleting part of the game. Actually worse, you're proposing that a crucial step part way through a quest is removed. That's a really fantastic way to frustrate a lot of people. We have enough quests that just don't work without making more intentionally.
The idea is, rather than have to use up so much coding time to try and figure out or blow up Cay, that they could simply make the quest undo-able for the time being until they have more free time on their hands. This wouldnt be the first time the administration has purposely broken a quest do make people stop doing it.
Or, maybe, you could ask for actual ideas, if you have none yourself. You're falsely identifying one problem- a lack of ideas for how to fix the Cay- with a solution that addresses a completely different problem- a lack of time to do it. Your solution is lazy and poorly thought out, so much so that most reasonable people would assume that you are merely trolling, once again. On the other hand, you make me grateful that these sorts of decisions are not yours to make.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
And again, while we in our infinte wisdom, without having seen a line of the code, always think we have the perfect, simple fix for a quest that is broken, we are shown consistently that our simple solutions are not simple at all. We may think it's easy to "just" disable a quest that is intricately tied into the epic cycle, or "just" disable part of it, but the reality is, I'm sure, far, far, far more complicated.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
If we're going to start disabling quests just because we don't like them, there are plenty of other quests to do, too! Like, how about TBC? Invading Angkrag with dwarven flame warriors? Flooding Serenwilde's roads with spawns? The Magnolia Lock? Marani Veloske? Soulforge? Etc, etc. There are tons of griefy-quests out there.
Hmm, when Ladantine's ship is raised, what negative effects does it cause for Celest exactly? I was told that a 'cold fog' is on the sea, but I've stood here and it doesnt seem to be causing any effects.
I think he used to stop them from picking up sands, like Marilynth used to get rid of the Spectres on the Isle - both of them stopped the opposing basic power quest. But that was disabled a while ago (and good riddance).
*sigh*. Trying to keep this rant-free, but my frustration is rather high right now.
For people trying to do their epic quests, this whole cay business is a joke and lanikai in general is. I have _wasted_ three and a half hours of my evening (would've been more without some very helpful people from Celest) only to return to lanikai's spot a mere minute after I finished the cay to neutral to find her _dead_. so, all in all, if I want to work on my epic, I need to invest 4 hours of previous work (cay + waiting), be lucky noone sees me and other celestians can help to _just advance my epic quest by a tiny bit_. That's supposing the cay's open in that very timeframe.
I'm sorry, but I at least don't have that kind of time on my hands. Today was a rare exception.
To whomever killed lanikai in that minute timeframe, please reflect on the meaning of 'common courtesy' and ask yourself if you really would wanted to be treated the way you treated me tonight. Thank you very much.
To whomever killed lanikai in that minute timeframe, please reflect on the meaning of 'common courtesy' and ask yourself if you really would wanted to be treated the way you treated me tonight. Thank you very much.
I have been treated that way in the past, and am helping someone else who is attempting to win our epic quest. They have been working towards it for weeks.
It's a conflict quest. We are on opposing sides.
"Common courtesy" would equally apply to you not doing your side, but you use it to attack me instead.
All of this hard work (albeit sometimes it feels as though it is more than any one person should have to endure for a game at times) only makes victory that much sweeter.
Would really love another way to get there other than waterwalking our sweet Tainted selves through currents in enemied -seas- which means if anyone from Mag is jumped they are at a disadvantage already and not protected by avenger. Because let's face it, who does the Cay without killing those feral kelpies? And pleeease, don't make it another freaking quest!
@Aeldra. We all understand your frustration. Even quests that take me 15 mins to complete get thwarted because I under constant surveillance. My trick? Turn everything into a challenge and revel in the delight of their anger when you do succeed, because you know you will eventually. Your anger only feeds the enemies you wish to overcome. ICly and OOCly. Remain calm and find other ways to get your fill of wins.
But yes...safe travel to the Cay very much desired. /hope
Yeah, I don't get the courtesy angle, though I fully support making this and other conflict quests less vulnerable to complete resets.
It's not 'rude' to kill a mob, or to disrupt a conflict quest. It's perhaps ethically suspect to intentionally wait until the very last second to do so when you plan to, as it's intentionally wasting another player's time - but there is zero way to investigate or police that. Even if it were rude, who cares? Most of those quests are in some way confrontational by nature. It sucks that they can be so easily broken with opposition, and I hate that Avenger makes it easy to do so with few ways to safeguard against intrusion, but that's how it is.
It is very unlikely to be a personal attack on you, or anyone else doing a conflict quest. Many experienced players just go on periodic rounds disrupting all conflict quests that have bad effects on their org, on the off chance that someone is planning to raise that effect. It's not that I or anyone else is following you (or Enadonella, or anyone else) around to intentionally screw with you. For instance, some of those quests @Enadonella is talking about (and is known for doing) impinge on Serenwilde in some way. When I log on, I do a round killing Norchatine (broadcast center), the Hag and Fiend (Hifirae Hills), Cyarun (Tar Pits), Mwauka (New Verasavir thing), and Odethi (Plaxios) so that those quests cannot be completed.
It wasn't the very last second. It was the very first second. She had just finished their side of the Cay, which meant Lanikai repopped. I killed Lanikai at that point, then left. I was too late to interrupt the Cay.
I don't believe in a desire for neutrality and common courtesy in quests. Hell I don't even feel that way about annoying ass Dio(I just wish destroying it gave me vernal curios so I could work out a farming deal with someone). It's why when Arcanis brought up Telperion's desire for a truce over the Cay I instantly went back into Cay farm mode.
Someone said it best, probably was Shuyin, about how we 'do whatever it takes for our org to win no matter what.' I've always stuck by the same sort of idea. So long as it's not like legit abuse or finding buggy loopholes etc and is able to be fairly done in the game, I'm going to try and do it just because this is a PK mud and it's all about how many W's you have in the win column. (RP'ers can deny me vehemently all they want but the entire game is built on PK style conquest being the main form of activity).
This probably makes me an utter shit of a person, but the fact that you felt so bad enough to post here makes me feel better about being a Cay troll. Any time anyone ever bombs me with tells or rage-declares me, or just plain gripes about how bad Cay is. I just grin and do my Emperor Palpatine voice 'Good. Goooooood.'
The Sea Battle sucks for both sides involved. There is nothing like it in Lusternia. It is frustrating for Magnagors to have to spend most of the important time in enemy territory, where their enemies are protected by Avenger, while equally frustrating for Celestians to have to rely on a quest being tuned a certain way to even ensure that Lanikai is alive in the time to advance the quest (and then attempt defend someone that can be killed in one hit, which goes for both sides).
Cay is a great quest. With some very shitty, and very suspect mechanics, that have been bitched about for a long time, with at least three topics in the past year about it.
Too often there is a contest between the sides to compare who has it harder instead of focusing together on getting it fixed. Remove Cay's impact on the Sea battle, remove mist lurkers impact on Lanikai, and have the sea battle fought over Carai Caroo and seashells, Lanikai and Ladantine, which is far more tolerable and able to move forward in finding a solution to re-incorporate Cay that isn't as frustrating on everyone involved.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
To whomever killed lanikai in that minute timeframe, please reflect on the meaning of 'common courtesy' and ask yourself if you really would wanted to be treated the way you treated me tonight. Thank you very much.
I have been treated that way in the past, and am helping someone else who is attempting to win our epic quest. They have been working towards it for weeks.
It's a conflict quest. We are on opposing sides.
"Common courtesy" would equally apply to you not doing your side, but you use it to attack me instead.
Now, more coherent after some sleep. I am not so sure why you feel 'attacked'. And yes, of course, it applies to everybody, me, you, celest, mag, whatever. I was under the delusion that fairness would be, if someone just went though all the trouble that is likely an evening filling event, one would give the other party a little head start. But that's obviously something that does only exist in my mind, I realize that now. So, I'm sorry that you felt attacked, it wasn't my attention to attack, rather to shake people a little. My apologies for that. There was a reason why my first sentence was that I was very frustrated at the moment of writing.
@Thalkros You are sweet, your response made me laugh. ;-) Also reminded me that my mindset is fundamentally different from that of the people here, I sadly keep forgetting that / expecting a different one.
Also, I did not intend nor understand it as a personal attack. To where I came from, people did mostly realize on an OOC level that they were playing a game together, even though their characters were pitted against each other and hated their guts. That meant, that one occasionally stepped back and let someone else have their little victory, instead of winning no matter the cost. Here, @Thalkros hinted it, such a mindset does largely not exist. I'm not used to that and it still angers me at times. Simple as that.
And of course, ICly, you can justify a lot, your character doing every little trick to win for their org.
Personally I'd love to see something along the lines of "While the cay is fully tainted, Ladantine becomes invulnerable while in his cave", "While the cay is fully empowered (cleansed), Lanikai becomes invulnerable" and "While the cay is neutral, BOTH ladantine and lanikai become vulnerable to being killed." (This idea admittedly still needs fine tuning since it needs to take into account existing quests like the epic quest, kelpies, etc etc etc)
Just an idea, the other option being to buff them significantly since Lanikai can be one-shot by a demigod crit, thus allowing Mag to still hinder Celest for an extra hour or longer, giving them the middle-finger salute. I forget how tough Ladantine is to kill.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
Comments
Since it seems Cay causes grief for both sides and both would prefer it did not exist, why not simply disable Cay?
A simple solution would be to remove the Urn (if you wish to purposely break it), hidden behind the puzzle-door. No more Cay, everyone is happy.
#Logic
#DisagreeWithPeopleNotPosts
The idea is, rather than have to use up so much coding time to try and figure out or blow up Cay, that they could simply make the quest undo-able for the time being until they have more free time on their hands. This wouldnt be the first time the administration has purposely broken a quest do make people stop doing it.
Is that it? How cruel of you guys, cant even let a man enjoy having his ship back
For people trying to do their epic quests, this whole cay business is a joke and lanikai in general is. I have _wasted_ three and a half hours of my evening (would've been more without some very helpful people from Celest) only to return to lanikai's spot a mere minute after I finished the cay to neutral to find her _dead_. so, all in all, if I want to work on my epic, I need to invest 4 hours of previous work (cay + waiting), be lucky noone sees me and other celestians can help to _just advance my epic quest by a tiny bit_. That's supposing the cay's open in that very timeframe.
I'm sorry, but I at least don't have that kind of time on my hands. Today was a rare exception.
To whomever killed lanikai in that minute timeframe, please reflect on the meaning of 'common courtesy' and ask yourself if you really would wanted to be treated the way you treated me tonight. Thank you very much.
@Thalkros You are sweet, your response made me laugh. ;-) Also reminded me that my mindset is fundamentally different from that of the people here, I sadly keep forgetting that / expecting a different one.
Also, I did not intend nor understand it as a personal attack. To where I came from, people did mostly realize on an OOC level that they were playing a game together, even though their characters were pitted against each other and hated their guts. That meant, that one occasionally stepped back and let someone else have their little victory, instead of winning no matter the cost. Here, @Thalkros hinted it, such a mindset does largely not exist. I'm not used to that and it still angers me at times. Simple as that.
And of course, ICly, you can justify a lot, your character doing every little trick to win for their org.