Tweets VII: Tweet Child of Mine

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • Another perspective on the affinity thing - I started this game back in July, in Glom. This was before the Glom gods were active. Then I moved to Serenwilde, again before the Serenwilde gods became active again. Then I moved to Gaudiguch and a god was kidnapped. As an IRE player I know I've just had bad luck with properly crossing paths with a potential patron and I know that players come and go and not all gods are actively played and they will be eventually...

    ...But when your playtime is much smaller scale and you aren't looking at things in terms of years, it's really kinda a bummer. I wanted to join someone, anyone when I was newer but was told I'd have to quit my orgs because of affinity which sounds scary and is a big thing to ask.

    It is absolutely understandable that not every org will have its divine active all at once. However, because of affinity, we are limited to only selecting patrons from this pool. This means if gods from our org are inactive, we can't go to other gods to experience orders which are a big part of the game, especially if you are a RPer.
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie
    I think the compromise might be opening up one or two org-neutral orders for people who are more open to RP across orgs. Ianir is cool, he could have an order. Or Roark.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    edited March 2017
    Maybe outer orders could be made to not cost essence in affinity, that way people could still be in the order and not cost the God anything unless the God decided they were worth it. 


    Another way to look at it is this: gods aren't stupid. If you've got an active God, and you're costing them essence and they haven't kicked you out? That's an active decision on their part. You're worth having in their order, in their eyes. 
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • Shuyin said:
    I don't understand this insistence on not picking sides when the game clearly demands that you do. But hey, let's keep on beating this horse.
    Well, in my example, it's not about not wanting to pick sides. It's about there being no options if you try to pick sides.
  • Orv was, is, and always will be a Hoaracean at heart. At the same time, she'll always be a Hallifaxian. Rpwise, it simply made sense because she's a faeling, and it satisfied her on a deep level to have that connection to her 'roots'. Hoaracle's tenets on inter-connectivity at the time also had meshed well with her concept of Collectivism.

    When she was in the order, affinity was a thing I constantly felt guilty about irl as a player, but @Hoaracle was also super kind about it. While I can dream and hope that affinity would magically go away, I'd think a compromise like lessened but not negative draining offerings and essence, limited privileges could be...a thing?

    I mean, it is a little odd that non ordered people can offer for more than an out of affinity order member. I don't know, but I'd also like to think things have matured now where we could just say, hey new rule, no invading other orders etc. because it really just screws everyone over in the long run? Like, otherwise it feels we've inherited a punishment handed to a many greats ancestor because of something they did, and we're left with the fallout for generations.

    /rambling


    I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
    Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
  • By the way, I'm not opposed to removing affinity, or making it another incarnation. At the end of the day, something that causes disproportionate distress is probably something that can be improved to be more obviously meaningful. The "this is a game" defense is one that is actually valid here, once the distress created passes a certain threshold. Conflicts (and this IS a conflict between a character's choice, or his environment's circumstances and his ideals) are meant to be distressing, but a game should have a limit, past which it's time to reconsider priorities.

    There're many ways to achieve the same effect, and likewise, there certainly are plenty of possible alternative ways to implement affinity that can be an improvement over how it currently exists.

    However, in the short term before any change is effected (assuming the admin are willing to consider it), it definitely could help to know that the current system does have some meaning, and not in the way that we (as players in a grinding game) automatically assume.

  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    I feel like I just disappointed @Thervet =(
  • So, maybe just have affinity bar Non-orgers from the inner circle and avatar-ship. Maybe alter the offering formulae to have both being in an Org, and being in the Order of said deity both give a small equal bonus. That way, all other things being equal, a nonGlom in Nocht's order and a Glommie not in his order can make equal offerings, but there isn't a way for the nonGlommie to take over his Order. 
    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

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  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    I really just think that they should standardize the drain (no ludicrously higher drain based on rank, just a flat, reasonable amount for everyone), cut the malus to offerings on cross-org order members, and instead make it so everyone inside a God's affiliated org gets an offering bonus. While you could do an offering malus for everyone outside instead, an aligned bonus accomplishes the same thing in a manner that would have a more positive reception (encouraging players to join the affiliated org, rather than punish them for being outside of it, makes people less likely to feel like the game is unfairly aligned against them.)
  • The 1/2 offering thing is the only thing about affinity that doesn't make sense to me. Like an org enemy can offer and result in more essence than an affinity punished person. Everything else seems kinda alright.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Phoebus said:
    I really just think that they should standardize the drain (no ludicrously higher drain based on rank, just a flat, reasonable amount for everyone), cut the malus to offerings on cross-org order members, and instead make it so everyone inside a God's affiliated org gets an offering bonus. While you could do an offering malus for everyone outside instead, an aligned bonus accomplishes the same thing in a manner that would have a more positive reception (encouraging players to join the affiliated org, rather than punish them for being outside of it, makes people less likely to feel like the game is unfairly aligned against them.)
    Following up on this, I'd like to add that I think driving home the point that a Divine would rather you were in their home org through roleplay would be a better way to apply pressure than a huge drain that makes people hate playing the game. When you're fighting an impossible negative number, you feel like you're fighting mechanics. When you're fighting Crushing Disappointed Parent Patron Shame, it's a character dilemma that you have more control over, and that feels better for everyone.

    There should be some drain, but it should be relatively minor. Just enough to remind you that you're doing something wrong, making it visible to anyone who can look at the logs. Maybe enough that if you never offer, there's pressure to not be such a burden. A drain that makes you feel obligated to dedicate your playtime to keeping up with it is overkill.
  • Vivet said:
    I always got the impression affinity was designed to be a deterrent to the divinities themselves, rather than the players - it rather just happens that they are intertwined.

    If your Divinity of choice is not expressly expecting you to perform upkeep, it seems probable that they are accepting the fact that you are creating a net essence loss, and it is not worth fretting over unless they do acknowledge it.

    That said, if I were in such a position I would have a hard time accepting that perspective myself - especially if I could see the offeringlogs and know very surely how much I am costing.

    If/when the people up in Havens might decide they want a change, I'm sure they'll let us know and it won't have costs attached to it.

    EDIT: For clarity, -credit costs-
    That could be the case, but that would be hit or miss in its ability to impact. Any active god who actually pays attention to mortals would be able to support a small army of folks. In my experience, the cost is difficult if you're paying it in corpses (but mostly then if you're inactive or don't like to hunt -- I suppose if you're orderhead it gets hard). But if the goal is to block the deity from having a large group, then it would be fairly trivial do just use a group figurine to outpace pretty much any drain.

    I could be wrong on my mental math, but I don't believe so.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    @BoardOfDirectors: Next time you want to implement some stupid thing that constantly sends messages to everyone in a city no matter where they are currently located, don't. Thanks.
  • Shaddus said:
    Maybe outer orders could be made to not cost essence in affinity, that way people could still be in the order and not cost the God anything unless the God decided they were worth it. 


    Another way to look at it is this: gods aren't stupid. If you've got an active God, and you're costing them essence and they haven't kicked you out? That's an active decision on their part. You're worth having in their order, in their eyes. 
    I don't have an objection to this, but you have to be super inactive for the drain to much matter in the outer order in any order I've been in. Meaning that I suppose there could be gods out there packing their outer order with privs, but then that's not only on that god, but they could likewise have ranks for people who reside or do not in the org they patron.

    For instance, looking at listofferings I see someone outside of Gaudiguch who is OR 3 is draining 10k a weave. One has to be pretty much completely inactive in such a case to be a problem.

  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    Phoebus said:
    @BoardOfDirectors: Next time you want to implement some stupid thing that constantly sends messages to everyone in a city no matter where they are currently located, don't. Thanks.
    This should be one message an hour. If it isn't, tell someone.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Luce said:
    Phoebus said:
    @BoardOfDirectors: Next time you want to implement some stupid thing that constantly sends messages to everyone in a city no matter where they are currently located, don't. Thanks.
    This should be one message an hour. If it isn't, tell someone.
    That's one message an hour too many.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Phoebus said:
    Luce said:
    Phoebus said:
    @BoardOfDirectors: Next time you want to implement some stupid thing that constantly sends messages to everyone in a city no matter where they are currently located, don't. Thanks.
    This should be one message an hour. If it isn't, tell someone.
    That's one message an hour too many.
    The town crier when I visit some cities irks me; I can avoid it by just leaving, though.

    Sounds like there needs to be an opt-out for this crier-to-all, because it would bug me too if there really is no way to avoid it save logging off or quitting the city (are those really the only options?).
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  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Circumstances
    Xenthos said:
    Phoebus said:
    Luce said:
    Phoebus said:
    @BoardOfDirectors: Next time you want to implement some stupid thing that constantly sends messages to everyone in a city no matter where they are currently located, don't. Thanks.
    This should be one message an hour. If it isn't, tell someone.
    That's one message an hour too many.
    The town crier when I visit some cities irks me; I can avoid it by just leaving, though.

    Sounds like there needs to be an opt-out for this crier-to-all, because it would bug me too if there really is no way to avoid it save logging off or quitting the city (are those really the only options?).
    I hate town criers. I now have an inescapable town crier in my brain. I am Not Happy. 
  • Luce said:
    Phoebus said:
    @BoardOfDirectors: Next time you want to implement some stupid thing that constantly sends messages to everyone in a city no matter where they are currently located, don't. Thanks.
    This should be one message an hour. If it isn't, tell someone.
    Maybe limit the projection to in the city once every 2, and save the pan-aether for special events?


    I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
    Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited March 2017
    Everyone's (okay, only a few people) so grumpy about getting a new thing in Hallifax. Reduce the frequency of alerts and make it only work in the city limits, sure, but don't be so negative :/

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  • LuceLuce Fox Populi
    Like, I'm legit worried about the other thing we're getting soonish now.
  • I don't like it either. I didn't like Aural but he was escapable. I laughed so hard when Mag got their own version after they'd mocked us on forums all that time, but that guy is escapable too.
This discussion has been closed.