Gear Overhaul

EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 831 Creator
edited November 2015 in Combat Overhaul
The last piece of the puzzle for the overhaul is how to deal with gear. Once gear is overhauled, we can release the warrior overhaul at which point we'll consider the overhaul complete. (I realize we will also want to tweak monks in the future but that is something that can be done over time.) We've been debating for the past week the best way to handle this, creating a simplified system that still allows for some customization can be easily balanced. Below is our design plan and we are eager to hear your comments!

Weapons (Forging)

Weapon stats are removed, and all weapons use a fixed formula to determine their damage, speed, etc. In place of weapon stats, weapons are granted customization slots. By default, weapons have two slots. Masterweapons have three slots.

Only one effect per weapon (except possibly with artifacts). The following are effects that can be included in the slots:
  • Damage - Increase in the weapon's base damage. Uses MINERAL OIL (see Alchemy below).
  • Speed - Decrease the weapon's base balance time (equivalent to lightning combatstyle?). Uses MINERAL OIL (see Alchemy below).
  • Razor - Increased bleeding. Uses MINERAL OIL (see Alchemy below).
    • For cutting weapons, increases the % of damage applied as bleed by 2%.
    • For blunt weapons, add a base 5% of damage applied as bleed.
  • Impact - Increased bruising. Uses MINERAL OIL (see Alchemy below).
    • For blunt weapons, increases the % of damage applied as bruising by 2%.
    • For cutting weapons, add a base 5% of damage applied as bruising.
  • Honed - Increased chance for a poison to proc off a strike. Uses MINERAL OIL (see Alchemy below).
  • Weighted - Increase stun/blackout duration by .25s on appropriate warrior strike mods. Uses MINERAL OIL (see Alchemy below).

For weapons with the slot runes attached, the first six effects can be applied twice, effectively allowing double the effect for the cost of two slots. The last two are not included in this because doubling up on stun/blackout could easily get out of hand, and because two default poisons doesn't make sense.

Weapon Artifacts

  • Weapon Runes - Current weapon runes would be retired (full trade-in value). New weapon runes would add more slots to a weapon (level 1 rune = 1 slot, level 2 rune = 2 slots, level 3 rune = 3 slots). Separate runes are used for 1-handed and 2-handed weapons, with the 1-handed runes priced half of the 2-handed runes, since a 1-hander user will need twice as many runes in total.
    • Possibly allow multiple effects of the same type in multiples slots (i.e., 2 slots can have damage or speed modifier).
  • Mallet of Enchantment - Forging only artifact that allows special weapon effects to be used in slots:
    • Enchanted - Change 33% of the weapon's damage type to another type of choice, similar to current elemental weapon runes.
    • Virulent - Default poison - when the weapon is unenvenomed, strikes will attempt to proc with this poison.

Armor (Forging and Enchantment)

Armor "stats" are removed. Scale and plate armor are combined into one "armor" class; the distinction remains between the two for flavour purposes, but they become identical. Leather armor is removed. Shields and greatshields are merged into one, with the penalty for non-warriors using shields removed. Helms are made decorative/RP. Armor is changed to directly give a % reduction to physical damage. The reductions would be close to the "average" set of armor for each type at present though tweaked as necessary for balance.

Armor Reduction
Shields 2%
Shield Rune 3%
Great Robes 7%
Tattoo Armor 8%
Splendor Robes 10%
Master Tattoo Armor 12%
Armor 13%
Master Armor 15%

Master armour and splendour armour give the protection from regular armour/greatrobes if the user does not have transcendent forging or tailoring active, respectively.

In addition, primary armor (robes and armor, but not shields or tattoos) also have a set of slots available for adding extra effects. Base armour would have one slot, master armour/splendour robes would have two slots. Powers that might be included:

  • Enchantment - 1/6 damage resistance, separate customization for each type. Uses KNOTS (see tailoring below).
  • Quickening - Movement speed/celerity buff.
  • Mass - Rooting/summon resistance buff.
  • Prestige - Prestige increase. 
  • Influence - 1/6 influence buff, separate customization for each influence type. Uses KNOTS (see tailoring below).
  • Weatherproofing - Increased warmth/weather resistance.

Armour Artifacts

  • Armour Runes - Artifacts could be included to add up to three additional slots, thus regular robes/armor have a max of 4 slots, splendour robes/masterarmor have a max of 5 slots.

Tailoring

  • Knots - Replaces proofings. Requires commodity plus:
  •  Magic Knot: elixir vitae (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Cold Knot: frost potion (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Fire Knot: fire potion (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Electrical Knot: galvinism potion (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Cutting Knot: Mineral Oil  (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Blunt Knot: Mineral Oil  (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Poison Knot: antidote potion  (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Psychic Knot: lucidity slush (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Divinus Knot: unholy water (celest potion) (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Excorable Knot: holy water (magnagora potion) (Armour/Robes Enchantment ability)
  •  Charity Knot: cloudberry tea (hallifax potion) (Armour/Robes Influence ability)
  •  Empowering Knot: moonwater (serenwilde potion) (Armour/Robes Influence ability)
  •  Weakening Knot: firemead (gaudiguch potion) (Armour/Robes Influence ability)
  •  Paranoia Knot: nightsweats (glomdoring potion) (Armour/Robes Influence ability)
  •  Seduction Knot: love potion (Armour/Robes Influence ability)

Alchemy

  • Mineral Oil - Replaces oil of sharpness, usable by forgers and tailors.
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Comments

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    So question about Kephera and how they interact with armor. They have splendour stats as their demigod perk but can't actually wear armor, would they get to incorporate the knots perks somehow? As it stands, kephera can still use proofings because those are on coats and cloaks, but with knots being exclusive to robes, they will lose access. 
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  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 831 Creator
    Celina said:
    So question about Kephera and how they interact with armor. They have splendour stats as their demigod perk but can't actually wear armor, would they get to incorporate the knots perks somehow? As it stands, kephera can still use proofings because those are on coats and cloaks, but with knots being exclusive to robes, they will lose access. 
    Great point. I think we forgot to consider kephera. My immediate thought is a new ability for kepher belts (straps?) only wearable by kephera that has slots. Any other ideas welcome!
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    Some kind of unique kephera only tailoring item would work. Thorax snuggie. 
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  • ShedrinShedrin Member Posts: 905 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    A few questions:

     - Will the two wounding systems exist concurrently until monks are overhauled?
     - Will the Mallet of Enhancement replace the current forging mallet artifact?
     - Will raised hoods / enchanted hats be necessary?
     - Will damage type runes be retired and if not will the enchanted slot from the Mallet stack with damage type runes?

    A few comments:
     - Having org potions as requirements for knots is awkward for anyone who wants that knot that isn't in the org.
     - One slot for greatrobes is less possible resists than currently available through proofings.
     - Speed slot for weapons will probably be 'mandatory'.
     - Overall seems a nice system, but probably want to look at the specific options to ensure none are too overbearing.
  • IeptixIeptix Member, Moderator, Gods Posts: 819 Divine
    Q1: Probably.
    Q3: No.
    Q4: All current warrior weapon runes will be retired.
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  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    For the virulent slot, same chance as normal envenom to poison? Is the default poison type changeable?
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  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    I kinda have to admit, I'm rather puzzled by the fact that you'll consider the overhaul complete. I mean, was the defense overhaul only supposed to cover the enchantments, and not the rest of the defenses?
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  • IeptixIeptix Member, Moderator, Gods Posts: 819 Divine
    The defense overhaul isn't integral to combat mechanics in the same way as e.g. afflictions are. They'll still be converted over, but the vast majority of the combat stuff will be done. There will still be a few small things even there that need to be ironed out, but again these are small in comparison to the overhaul as a whole.
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  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    Seems nice, Although I agree with Shedrin that making certain knots require org-specific brews is going to cause so much pain...


    Additionally, I agree that I thought the overhaul wouldnt be over yet, since it seems there is a lot to still do.

    I honestly would love if the other classes also got looked at. Mages for example are in a wierd place with the Meld concept, and frankly I would love if they were given more independence as a class and less of a fixation of "Area control for groups".
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    Just give Kephera a special CHITIN noun that allows them to select what to fill their slots with. Limit it to one change per month or something. 
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    I'm confused, the bit about weapons says that regular weapons have two slots, masterweapons have three, but that each weapon can only have one effect. Is it 2-3 effects, or one effect?
  • IeptixIeptix Member, Moderator, Gods Posts: 819 Divine
    Each effect can only be used once per weapon, but weapons have slots for multiple effects.
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  • ZacZac Member Posts: 32 Apprentice
    With the overhaul being done, does this mean the afflictions currently not listed in AFFS will remain in their own command system and not covered by the new changes?
  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 1,037 Mythical
    edited November 2015
    I agree with Shedrin RE org potions as knot reagents. Making access depend on org alliance is probably not a good idea in the long run. As replacements, might I suggest the brewmaster drinks? Teas for influencing, AmberMalt for Divinus, DarkMalt for Excorable. Ayisdra's suggestion to use influencing oils?

    For Kephera, allow them to benefit from the armour enchantment (but not armour value; their chitin already provides a better number) of the armour. Easy!

    As a request, could we not remove leather/chain and instead merge them into the "Great Robes" class of armour? Wearable by anyone, provides 7% reduction, etc. but is aesthetically a suit of armour rather than a robe or a suit.

    Also I'd just like to note that I LOVE how this leads to people having a good reason to have more than one set of clothing.
    Post edited by Moi on
  • LothringenLothringen Member Posts: 259 Fabled
    edited November 2015
    I like it. I hope the new artifacts don't become requirements like current warrior runes are- I think it will be a challenge to make the bonuses desirable without tipping them in that direction, though. Relatedly, hope the cost isn't as high as current.

    Do the new runes go on the weapons themselves? I hope not. Please no. Down with pliers, etc.
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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 979 Fabled
    On influencing knots - why not just require the influencing oils as their potion cost? Maybe I'm using too much sense or that the admin don't want to double use a potion like this.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Judging by how they worded it, odds are they would. There's another solution though:

    Instead of two artifacts, one for one-handed and one for two-handed, have a single artifact. It will allow you to IMPRINT on either two one-handed weapon or one two-handed weapon, which would give the weapon(s) the additional slots. Only the imprinter can then wield the weapon.It wouldn't make the weapon resetting or non-decay though.

    It'd need some extra safeguards (for instance, the ability to unimprint), but it'd make warriors far more flexible in return.
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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 979 Fabled
    @Estarra (or @Ieptix ) - So, with greatrobes (and splendors), they no longer will have an armor number, but just have 'enchanted' and 'not enchanted' if I'm understanding this right?

    Would knots be a stacking thing (if I had 5 magic knots, would I have a 5/6 resistance)?

    While I know it is probably a long shot - but what would be the chances of an artifact of an one knot for influencing and damage resist (one knot that gives the buff for all five influencing, one knot that gives all 10 damage resists)?
  • LeolaminsLeolamins Member Posts: 351 Fabled
    What is the intent for the dwarven forging runes?

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  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,368 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    If you're implementing a choice of buffs to put on armor/robes, it would be a nice convenience thing to let people make more than one set of splendors/masterarmor. That would allow people to change their customizations without having to go back to the forge and make a new set of armor or swap out to a weaker type. An artifact that increases the cap would work if you want to make it a paying for convenience deal.
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  • LothringenLothringen Member Posts: 259 Fabled
    edited November 2015
    Ssaliss said:
    Judging by how they worded it, odds are they would. There's another solution though:

    Instead of two artifacts, one for one-handed and one for two-handed, have a single artifact. It will allow you to IMPRINT on either two one-handed weapon or one two-handed weapon, which would give the weapon(s) the additional slots. Only the imprinter can then wield the weapon.It wouldn't make the weapon resetting or non-decay though.

    It'd need some extra safeguards (for instance, the ability to unimprint), but it'd make warriors far more flexible in return.
    Yeah, buying duplicate sets if you want to switch between onehander/twohander sucks. As does needing pliers if you want to switch between blademaster/bonecrusher, for example. 

    This has been a major headache with the current system, so if the overhaul doesn't address it I'd be pretty disappointed.

    Can't there just be one rune for each level (1 slot, 2 slot, 3 slot) that you attach to jewelry (or clothing) that automatically changes the slot availability on the weapons you're currently wielding?
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  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    But mah revenuez!

    I don't begrudge the game making monies, goodness knows I've tossed plenty at it. But some of the decisions over the years, they'd make Timon and Pumba jealous (the grubs).
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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,403 Transcendent
    I'd like to echo Shedrin's point about balance/equilibrium. Please don't put it in as a "choice", you might as well remove it, speed everyone up by that amount and remove one slot for all weapons, and you'll get the same meta, because even 0.1s increase in speed is worth it. Especially with it being on top of the balance/eq tier system.

    If it is incorporated into the balance/eq tier system, it's at least slightly more palatable (we can examine the tier system and tweak that to reduce the gap between those with 0 and those with 10 if/when needed) but still, the point about the enchantment being pretty much permanently "required" will still stand.

    Otherwise, the rest of the effects seem interesting, with enough of them for limited enough slots that proper thought into customisation is a must - which can only be a good thing. The next step, then is to think about the implementation. It doesn't matter if you have a great, versatile and engaging system of pros-and-cons that eliminate master-setups and create diversity in tactics and meta-strategizing... if you also make it cost an arm and a leg to switch things in and out. As it is, I would also prefer the tattoos be overhauled alongside this to make it easier, but the admin have already been very accommodating on the tattoos front so I won't make too much noise about it here. But if you're redo-ing weapons and armours into a similar system of slot-based, customisable effects, then don't make the same mistakes, please.

    For one, the biggest elephant in the room is, as always, the artifacts. I would like to second (or third, or quad, or whatever) everyone who has asked for the death of pliers and a more equitable credit investment for warriors. No other class is given so much versatility with one hand and have it taken away with the other. Warriors are the only archetype to have access to five primary specialisations in EVERY org that they exist in, yet require not just more credit investment for a full artifact set for one such specialisation, but also have the very same investment multiplied over every specialisation they want to skillflex in. We're not talking about being equal and communist and giving everyone the same thing here, but it just simply isn't fair. At the moment, we don't know the costs for a full set of weapon artifacts for warriors, it may come out to be cheaper than a mage who wants his damage runes and enemy runes and meld runes and shield runes etc etc, (if so, yay) but if you're going to continue to keep asking them to buy a full set for every weapon they use, it's just going to be a case of taking one step forward, and two steps back.

    Make weapon artifacts an item in the inventory (hilt streamers, gemstone-embedded wristbands, magical power-ranger belts, whatever) that will give its artifact effect to whatever weapon is being wielded by the artifact owner. Make it so that weapons can be enchanted/forged with every single effect, but only two effects (three for masterweapons) be able to be activated via a syntax available in Knighthood and Kata (for monks) at once. Once an hour, once a rl day, once a game year, whatever. Make the artifact increase the number of effects that can be activated, possibly also decrease the switch cooldown period. Maybe even make weapons decay faster so as to give forgers more business while still giving warriors just a single-buy artifact. Delete pliers.

    Roll credit-bought customised weapon designs into the same artifact, and make it apply via a syntax to all weapons of the correct type held by the customisation owner. For example, if I bought a 50cr customisation for one longsword, whenever I use the artifact syntax on a normally forged longsword I bought, it'll turn it into the design I specified, with all its usual decay rates etc. But using the same syntax on a rapier will not work. Tag the weapon thus customised so that you can only use the syntax again when it decays, preventing multiple uses etc.

    This is a great chance to make things right, please consider.

    ----

    On the topic of monks, I'm fairly disappointed. I was looking forward to interacting with the new warrior afflictions, and many monks (or maybe just the Nekotai) are currently in an offensive limbo where some of our strategies are out of whack (because the nekotai, at least, function on affliction stacks) with some of our core afflictions shifted to a different cure from the rest, while some of our other strategies are out of this world for similar reasons.

    Gear overhaul is great, but I do urge the admin to keep monks in the forefront after this gear overhaul, and convert monks fully into the new physical afflictions system.

    It's also hard to write reports for my main skillsets when I'm not sure what's going to happen.

  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,769 Transcendent
    Since I'm not the one who brought it up this time, I'll echo the worry about making this great new system, then making it unintentionally pay-to-win.
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  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 831 Creator
    Sorry, I wanted to respond to comments as they came in on this topic but today has ended up being hectic!

    Regarding artifacts, we are going to offer full refunds for current runes and you only need one replacement rune (though can choose from level 1, 2 or 3) on a weapon. I fail to see how this isn't an improvement! I believe the runes should be placed on the weapon itself and not something in the inventory because it just doesn't make sense to me otherwise not to mention being impossible to code. BTW, in the future, I really, really want to do a slot system on non-warrior weapons (instruments, staves, cudgels, etc.) if that makes any difference. Anyway, I don't think we will budge on that mechanic (i.e., runes on weapons).

    Regarding speed, sure, we could get rid of it as an option, but I disagree that it's something you MUST have (it's just a tiny boost) and you may find it's better to have a heavier damage weapon or one that causes more bleeding or bruising, etc. than the speed bonus. In any event, I think it's important that weapons be customizable enough that we do notice a difference among them and warriors can choose what weapon setup they want. (Otherwise, we'd just give everyone the same exact weapon and call it a day--be easiest option for us but not very exciting!)

    Regarding org potions, I thought that would be an interesting twist as it'd create a minor conflict among crafters, open up black markets and provide leverage among factions who control the spice--er, potions. But, meh, if everyone wants everything easy, we could substitute something else. (Ieptix didn't like using org potions, despite my enthusiasm for it.) Feel free to offer alternatives though.


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  • DelseaDelsea Member Posts: 105 Adept
    Getting the org potions would be really difficult - you could still keep a little difficulty and potential conflict/black market by utilising certain essence types instead, to be imbued into the item? ie darkessence for excorable, lightessence for divinus, etc. 
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    edited November 2015


    Speed is always king - you get more bruising/damage/afflictions over time by moving faster, and having back faster balance/eq has implications for curing and mobility as well. There is a reason that high-speed, low damage races traditionally dominated the Lusternian field for so long. 

    It seems to me that the system will generally yield a setup for each spec to use on their weapons. Actually, thinking about it, it'll probably be the same set for all specs. Damage and bleeding/bruising will probably be low priority, as neither of those really synergize with the new warriors. The venomous ability doesn't appear to have a use, beyond saving a little bit of gold on applied poisons. Therefore, most warriors will probably have a weighted, honed, speed weapon, trading honed for a bleeding variant if their spec has no stunning effects. 
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,819 Transcendent
    So let's say that I have a master weapon (3 slots) and the 3 slot rune.  I can put 2x of 3 different effects that I like on my two-handed weapon?  Or can I only double up on one, and all the others must be disparate?

    Second question:
    How do I make "secondary" weapons permanent under the new paradigm?  Is it even necessary any more to have multiple sets of weapons?  It kind of seems like it might not be.

    In that case, pliers have just become even less valuable than they were-- what happens if I unattach the slot rune from one weapon to move it to another?  Do the things on those slots go with the rune?  Do the effects just vanish?  Are pliers now meaningless for warriors?
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