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Great Houses & Losing All Honour

XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
in Common Grounds
POLITICS NEWS #5371
Date: 1/16/2016 at 21:58
From:
To  : Everyone
Subj: Shevat Family Change of Status

The Shevat family has lost its status as a Great House.

Family Tree Shevat:
Family Honour: Disgraced (0)

-----------------------------------------------

Is there any particular reason that all honour gets lost when a family loses Great House?  This is a really, really hefty penalty by losing 1 member after going over the limit.  It has to be kind of crushing to people who have invested a ton of time and effort into getting the entry up.

Instead of wiping it out, why not just prevent it from increasing at all until the Great House status is back?  You can't keep accruing new honour, and you can still lose it (due to inactive ticks, murdering people when not a Blood House, etc), but you don't end up having EVERYTHING wiped out.
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Comments

  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon
    It's also a bit weird in the context of the the RP how if you go from 51 to 50 members it's not really a big deal, but going from 50 to 49 can lose you whatever honour you have.
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Omg. What happened!
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spot
    edited January 2016
    One member unexpectedly quit the city and family. I'm at work so I haven't had a chance to look into it.  :-<
    I used to make cakes.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Which took you down to...39? You were a great house at 40 members?
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie
    40+Pavok as banner I think.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Eritheyl said:
    Which took you down to...39? You were a great house at 40 members?
    40 members gives you a +10 bonus.  This was originally put in place so that Great Houses at 50 members had a buffer to prevent them from losing Great House so easily.

    It just had the effect of moving the threshold from 50 to 40 members for that risk, so it helped out all Great Houses at that time and all newer ones still have to deal with it.
    image
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Well, that's dumb.
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon
    Xenthos said:
    Eritheyl said:
    Which took you down to...39? You were a great house at 40 members?
    40 members gives you a +10 bonus.  This was originally put in place so that Great Houses at 50 members had a buffer to prevent them from losing Great House so easily.

    It just had the effect of moving the threshold from 50 to 40 members for that risk, so it helped out all Great Houses at that time and all newer ones still have to deal with it.
    Are you sure this is the case? Look at Lunarose who supposedly have 22 members but I can only count 12 active. They have "Prestigious Family" under their member count.

    It looks to be anyone above a certain amount of honour has this +10 bonus. Starfall don't have it at 20886 but Lunarose does at 30693.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    It's just one more of the outdated mechanics that needs an overhaul to be made relevant or important outside of a culture bonus score and influencing bonus for most honorable family.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Falmiis said:
    Xenthos said:
    Eritheyl said:
    Which took you down to...39? You were a great house at 40 members?
    40 members gives you a +10 bonus.  This was originally put in place so that Great Houses at 50 members had a buffer to prevent them from losing Great House so easily.

    It just had the effect of moving the threshold from 50 to 40 members for that risk, so it helped out all Great Houses at that time and all newer ones still have to deal with it.
    Are you sure this is the case? Look at Lunarose who supposedly have 22 members but I can only count 12 active. They have "Prestigious Family" under their member count.

    It looks to be anyone above a certain amount of honour has this +10 bonus. Starfall don't have it at 20886 but Lunarose does at 30693.
    You're right, it's based on a certain honour amount.
    image
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    So going from 51 to 50 retracts great house, which removes your honor, which gives you another -10 members automatically...so great house becomes inaccessible again for a hellishly long time.

    On one hand it sounds like a scam, on the other hand I think the intent is sound. Except that family honor is, as @Silvanus said, is outdated and irrelevant, particularly if you just got metaphorically suckerpunched because one person decided to leave.
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    The good news: Honor system is irrelevant anyways.
    image
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spot
    Sure, but this is a game of watching numbers go up and down, and that's one of the numbers some of us assign a little significance to.
    I used to make cakes.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    Fine, but unless you're first that number has no tangible value. 

    I mean, sure, it sucks all the work was washed away but basically all the families below d'Murani are basically saying "Hey, look at this number we made."
    image
  • AyisdraAyisdra
    Celina said:
    The good news: Honor system is irrelevant anyways.
    Except for that 500 culture/power that the highest honour family gives their org.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spot
    What number in his game has any tangible value, @Celina?
    I used to make cakes.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    AUCTION ESCROW BUILD.

    RETIRE VALUE.

    /weep
    image
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New Zealand
    Ayisdra said:
    Celina said:
    The good news: Honor system is irrelevant anyways.
    Except for that 500 culture/power that the highest honour family gives their org.
    Most Honorable Family also gets a 1/10 universal influence buff.
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    It's okay! Shevat will be fine. It sucks that we have to work a bit harder since we lose the 10+ bonus, but Shevat is a family that has plenty of active characters. It's not like we're on the struggle train with mostly dormant people. I have faith we'll be fine and back to Great House before we know it.

    But yeah ouch, that's a really rough drop for just one family member saying 'deuces.'
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I think wiping all the honour really does suck. I can understand suffering a hefty set-back penalty, perhaps, but all gone really blows.

    There have been quite a few families to suffer the same thing, unfortunately. Hell, some people have deliberately had alts quit families to screw them over this way. Not cool, not cool.



  • NihmrielNihmriel
    I... 

    ...give up.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spot
    edited January 2016
    Sylandra said:
    It's okay! Shevat will be fine. It sucks that we have to work a bit harder since we lose the 10+ bonus, but Shevat is a family that has plenty of active characters. It's not like we're on the struggle train with mostly dormant people. I have faith we'll be fine and back to Great House before we know it.

    But yeah ouch, that's a really rough drop for just one family member saying 'deuces.'
    Yeah. Considering all the honor that went to waste while we idled at the lesser house cap, this isn't the biggest loss. If I understand the (frankly kind of silly) mechanics of population and honor, we just need one more member and about 30,000 honor, which is a couple prestige wins. Still sucks, still seems a little unfair. It feels a lot like when I lost Demi within five minutes of getting it, except it wasn't my boneheaded move that caused it.
    Nihmriel said:
    I... 

    ...give up.
    Got any more scripts lying around?  :-/
    I used to make cakes.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    We can do mine. I meant to do it ages ago. Procrastination finally paid off!
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • ChirboChirbo
    edited January 2016
    I'm just wondering where in the Peace Articles it warranted an execution 
    image
  • IeptixIeptix
    Is family honour a thing for non-Great Houses?
    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Ieptix said:
    Is family honour a thing for non-Great Houses?
    Lesser Houses can earn honour up to a cap (100k?).  They can't go past that.  That's why my suggestion was for it to basically conform to the Lesser House model where there's a cap (can't go up any more, but can go down, rather like how essence works now when you have lots and lots of it).
    image
  • LeradLerad
    edited January 2016
    Yes, but they have it capped at 150k, or something like that. It just doesn't increase any more than that even if they do stuff that gets honour ticks.

    Edit: apparently 100k, I guess.

  • IeptixIeptix
    How would you all feel about a monthly (or however often passive family honour things (are there passive family honour things I don't even know)) drop in honour down to that cap for families that lose the great house status, instead of the complete loss of honour?
    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    If you do family housestatus, you'll see how much work you'll need to do to maintain your honour for the year or else you lose honour. Perhaps just make any minor house over the cap have that threshold be unattainable?
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
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