Guild Overhaul [Confirmed]

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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 896 Fabled
    Shaddus said:
    This is going to be completely not helpful, but if you don't think the admin pay attention and you feel that Lusternia is just a money pit, why do you stick around?
    Assuming this is directed at me, because I really have nothing better to do. That I don't have all the things I want. Just because I may feel like Lusternia may be a money pit (at times), doesn't mean I don't like it.

    I never said the admin don't pay attention (if I did or implied it, I didn't mean too...).

    I am just one voice that is the minority and I understand this.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,364 Transcendent
    Nyxx said:
    Shaddus said:
    This is going to be completely not helpful, but if you don't think the admin pay attention and you feel that Lusternia is just a money pit, why do you stick around?
    I didnt say they don't pay attention -at all-. I said they dont  particularly care or pay attention to the players who disagree with them is all.

    @Xenthos that isn't a fair example. The very first "full god" that we had at our first Ascension is the one who screwed all that up for us. that was not a result of half the player base saying no we dont want this as is the case here (or am I misinformed on that? did they have a poll about that too and I just missed it? It was years ago so my memory may be fuzzy)
    No, you're wrong.  The first God did not screw that up for us.  They were very clear in saying that it had nothing to do with him, and that he had done a great job, but based on a great deal of input from both the game's volunteers and players, it was not something that could reasonably be done.  Too many issues & problems to make it work.  The entire Ascendant system was overhauled after that point based on our input.

    As such, it is absolutely a fair example.
    image
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Xenthos said:
    Nyxx said:
    Shaddus said:
    This is going to be completely not helpful, but if you don't think the admin pay attention and you feel that Lusternia is just a money pit, why do you stick around?
    I didnt say they don't pay attention -at all-. I said they dont  particularly care or pay attention to the players who disagree with them is all.

    @Xenthos that isn't a fair example. The very first "full god" that we had at our first Ascension is the one who screwed all that up for us. that was not a result of half the player base saying no we dont want this as is the case here (or am I misinformed on that? did they have a poll about that too and I just missed it? It was years ago so my memory may be fuzzy)
    No, you're wrong.  The first God did not screw that up for us.  They were very clear in saying that it had nothing to do with him, and that he had done a great job, but based on a great deal of input from both the game's volunteers and players, it was not something that could reasonably be done.  Too many issues & problems to make it work.  The entire Ascendant system was overhauled after that point based on our input.

    As such, it is absolutely a fair example.

    I was misinformed then. I retract that portion of my statement. None the less I am still obviously upset with it. I also don't think its particularly fair to just work "with the guild leaders" to implement all this... hrm... what about a summit in the game or something @Zvoltz @Estarra? would it be possible that we have a summit with all the players (or at least those who are around, I know we've had them before) in order to help with the major changes at least that will be happening with this? leaving it only up to the 1 or 2 leaders of each guild and city currently is leaving alot of people out of the loop and without a voice. Maybe some of us would feel more comfortable with it if something like that were to happen to involve more of us??? Just a suggestion :)
  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    Seriously Xenthos, just tell the truth about Soll. 
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • NienlaNienla Member Posts: 272 Expert
    I'm pretty sure Ayridion/Soll didn't screw anything up from what I've heard. The idea of a roleplay only God just didn't really work. Admins are generally expected to do a lot of things outside of just God/Mortal interactions. Some code, nearly all prog/build, etc.


  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,191 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    For what it's worth, I'm pretty excited about this. I'd like to put out a request @Zvoltz for a ballpark timeline once there's enough information for one, so we can get a better idea of what guild things are worth doing.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    Alright. Lets get back on track before I start getting into specifics about that event. 
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Nienla said:
    I'm pretty sure Ayridion/Soll didn't screw anything up from what I've heard. The idea of a roleplay only God just didn't really work. Admins are generally expected to do a lot of things outside of just God/Mortal interactions. Some code, nearly all prog/build, etc.


    As I said, I was misinformed. I'm happy to admit when i've made a mistake. Though since we often have people complaining about the LACK of RP from Gods... maybe something could change in that area too as it's obviously something that the players want more of (yes I get it volunteers, no time, etc. etc. etc. we all have lives outside of Lusternia. but again, if it's something that is often mentioned, its clearly something that needs to be looked into, yes?.)
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,254 Transcendent
    Depends on who is often mentioning it.
    image
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Celina said:
    Depends on who is often mentioning it.
    sure because only certain peoples opinions matter, right?
  • ZvoltzZvoltz Member, Gods Posts: 399 Divine
    @Nyxx I will leave that up to Estarra.

    @Aysidra Yep, still the same ol' me.

    The problem with a player god is that it is incredibly isolating. You don't get to be part of the admin team because you're not an admin and are cut out of the aspects of being an admin like building and all the other secret NDA stuff (I spend probably 95% of my time doing admin things and 5% of my time being a roleplay god) but you are also still a god so you can't go chill with your homies, go on a sweet ur'bash, and PK the day away. You're extremely isolated.

  • ZvoltzZvoltz Member, Gods Posts: 399 Divine
    @Portius "sometime in the future" is the best I can do right now. As far as reaching out to players, that should be happening sometime this month. Other than that, I will try to keep everyone updated on timelines.

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,254 Transcendent
    Nyxx said:
    Celina said:
    Depends on who is often mentioning it.
    sure because only certain peoples opinions matter, right?
    Yes. Despite the feel good belief, all opinions are not equal. No one is required to listen to an opinion just because someone has it. 

    image
  • ShaddusShaddus *Heavy Breathing Intensifies*Member Posts: 7,143 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Ayisdra said:
    Shaddus said:
    This is going to be completely not helpful, but if you don't think the admin pay attention and you feel that Lusternia is just a money pit, why do you stick around?
    Assuming this is directed at me, because I really have nothing better to do. That I don't have all the things I want. Just because I may feel like Lusternia may be a money pit (at times), doesn't mean I don't like it.

    I never said the admin don't pay attention (if I did or implied it, I didn't mean too...).

    I am just one voice that is the minority and I understand this.

    Nah, it was directed at Nyxx.


    I think both the naysayers and the supporters should just work together and make sure we turn this into something playable that drives progress and pulls in people. Automatically opposing it doesn't do anyone any good. Your concerns are valid, @Nyxx. Frankly, you're right; the admins are going to listen more to people who are involved and want to help this thing grow as opposed to people who oppose it without giving it a chance, and who aren't going to go out of their way to try and make this thing work.
  • TwytchTwytch Member Posts: 485 Expert
    @Nyxx To give you a more recent example of The People saying 'No' and The Admins capitulating: the very first version of the Overhaul.

    From what I recall, the Overhaul initially proposed that afflictions be grouped and tiered, so that if, for example, you get Pox and fail to cure it in time, you then get Scabies, then RigorMortis, or something to that effect. Players pointed out that this would be a Bad Idea, and the admins finally agreed to follow a less radical plan (the current one).

    The bottom line is, we have too few people for too many guilds. We are losing people because they become disheartened by their empty organizations. This needs to be addressed, and obviously fixing the 'too few people' part won't be the answer (refer
     to previous sentence). Guilds need to be condensed, and considering that Lusternia has the best track record for Lore That Makes Sense, I have faith in the admin to do this in a way that won't be damaging to the atmosphere of the game.
    See you in Sapience.
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Celina said:
    Nyxx said:
    Celina said:
    Depends on who is often mentioning it.
    sure because only certain peoples opinions matter, right?
    Yes. Despite the feel good belief, all opinions are not equal. No one is required to listen to an opinion just because someone has it. 

    Riiiggghhhttt and who decides whose opinion matters? you? me? Xenthos? Ayisdra? No. No one is required to listen to an opinion just because someone has it btu that does not mean that all opinions are not of value, nor does it mean that certain people should be discredited and overlooked because they have a different opinion than you. MULTIPLE people have mentioned that they wish the gods could RP with us more... but I suppose if that doesnt jive with YOUR opinion it doesnt matter right?
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Shaddus said:
    Ayisdra said:
    Shaddus said:
    This is going to be completely not helpful, but if you don't think the admin pay attention and you feel that Lusternia is just a money pit, why do you stick around?
    Assuming this is directed at me, because I really have nothing better to do. That I don't have all the things I want. Just because I may feel like Lusternia may be a money pit (at times), doesn't mean I don't like it.

    I never said the admin don't pay attention (if I did or implied it, I didn't mean too...).

    I am just one voice that is the minority and I understand this.

    Nah, it was directed at Nyxx.


    I think both the naysayers and the supporters should just work together and make sure we turn this into something playable that drives progress and pulls in people. Automatically opposing it doesn't do anyone any good. Your concerns are valid, @Nyxx. Frankly, you're right; the admins are going to listen more to people who are involved and want to help this thing grow as opposed to people who oppose it without giving it a chance, and who aren't going to go out of their way to try and make this thing work.
    Nah I wanna be able to help them too. As I already said it's clear something needs to happen and needs to change but I don't think this is the right move. Mind you if done PROPERLY with the right considerations taken into play it COULD work well.. I just think it's really risky and risks alienating half their player base. thats why I suggested a summit, get more than just the couple of guild leaders involved kind of thing. people will like it better if htey feel like they have a voice in it too. :)
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    Yeah, I was told that Soll wasn't really into the whole 'coding' thing and the admins expected him to code and do God stuff and that's when he backed off, went nope.jpg, and then we got the ascension we have now.

    So from my info, it was all soll's fault.
    image
  • ShaddusShaddus *Heavy Breathing Intensifies*Member Posts: 7,143 Transcendent
    Maybe if you don't think the Admin rp enough, you should try out to be one and show them how it's done.
  • IlianIlian Member Posts: 25 Apprentice

    Shaddus said: Maybe if you don't think the Admin rp enough, you should try out to be one and show them how it's done.
    Knowing from experience, Admin work really hard to see big changes like this come about. However, there is little pleasing those who can't please themselves.
    image
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Twytch said:
    @Nyxx

    You have high and, quite frankly, unreasonable standards for the admins. They can't run the game and frequently RP with people. They can't please everyone. They, too, have lives beyond Lusternia. The best state of affairs for the game would be if players engaged each other, and the gods only popping in from time to time so that they can relax and enjoy the game they made.
    sure cuz i'm the only person who has ever said they wished the Gods could bea round and RP with us more? hrm? really? I'm the ONLY person who has ever thought or said that in the entire history of the game? NOT ONCE have you ever wished your divine was around more or you could talk to them more or rp with them more? 
  • IlianIlian Member Posts: 25 Apprentice
    Nyxx said:
    Twytch said:
    @Nyxx

    You have high and, quite frankly, unreasonable standards for the admins. They can't run the game and frequently RP with people. They can't please everyone. They, too, have lives beyond Lusternia. The best state of affairs for the game would be if players engaged each other, and the gods only popping in from time to time so that they can relax and enjoy the game they made.
    sure cuz i'm the only person who has ever said they wished the Gods could bea round and RP with us more? hrm? really? I'm the ONLY person who has ever thought or said that in the entire history of the game? NOT ONCE have you ever wished your divine was around more or you could talk to them more or rp with them more? 
    The reality is, just like most of everything is that Admin would love to RP 24/7. However, they are busy, just like us. Imagine a group of college students working on a miniature Lusternia, and having all their little figurines yelling at once - Especially the ones that they really enjoy, or even don't enjoy, or even make for different organisations in their little miniature world. College students, much like Admin cannot always execute what the people want. They have lives, needs, they need to eat, they need emotional rest and sometimes even lack of stimulation from their miniature figurines yelling at them all the time.

    It is true that I have felt that I would love to see @Zvoltz more often, but all things considered, Gods are meant to be Gods, they have a concept of mortality, but they are not apart of it. They can sympathise with it, but they are not mortals. I think you need to take a deep breath, and look at all of this with a grain or twelve of salt.
    image
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Xenthos said:
    Most of the rest of us understand that we're playing a game with other real, live people, and we can't expect them to conform to our whims and be at our beck and call whenever we want them.  We are happy for what they can provide.  Sure, we might want more, but we know we don't have a right to demand it.
    when did i say anything about demanding it? or wanting them at your beck and call? The ONLY thing I said about it  AFTER you mentioned they tried a -purely rp god- that didn't work out... was that a lack of rp from the gods is something often mentioned by players (since they've said no to pure rp gods) and as such maybe it should be given some serious thought. I never said a single thing about demanding or expecting or conforming to anything. way to misinterpret something.
  • TwytchTwytch Member Posts: 485 Expert
    @Nyxx

    Sure, I wish admins were around more to play baseball with us little people. But I also understand that they are people with lives beyond the game, too, and that they work hard to bring us new things to collect, new areas to explore, new stories to tug at our heartstrings, new enemies to fear, so on and so forth.

    Step back and try to look at this whole deal from an admin's perspective. It's not easy being them.
    See you in Sapience.
  • NyxxNyxx Member Posts: 130 Capable
    Twytch said:
    @Nyxx

    Sure, I wish admins were around more to play baseball with us little people. But I also understand that they are people with lives beyond the game, too, and that they work hard to bring us new things to collect, new areas to explore, new stories to tug at our heartstrings, new enemies to fear, so on and so forth.

    Step back and try to look at this whole deal from an admin's perspective. It's not easy being them.
    See my previous statement.
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