Guild Overhaul [Confirmed]

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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,254 Transcendent
    Tarkenton said:
    I agree with Arcanis. Time to go buy some lottery tickets.
    In Texas we have a phrase.

    Even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut.
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  • TylwythTylwyth Member Posts: 1,441 Fabled
    Phoebus said:
    Celina said:
    Tarkenton said:
    I agree with Arcanis. Time to go buy some lottery tickets.
    In Texas we have a phrase.

    Even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut.
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
    Neither has occured.
    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

    image
  • TalanTalan Member Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    Any word on what is happening to guild-deeded cartels?

    I think in most cases people would be fine with them being absorbed by the org cartels? I can think of a handful of reasons why we might need design-transfer though.

    Would it be possible to get ruling on this soon though? It can affect what people are doing now.
    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • ThulThul Member Posts: 568 Fabled
    So... what happens with guild mobs? Guards and the like? Are we looking at 18 new sets of loyals?
  • ZvoltzZvoltz Member, Gods Posts: 399 Divine
    Talan said:
    Any word on what is happening to guild-deeded cartels?

    I think in most cases people would be fine with them being absorbed by the org cartels? I can think of a handful of reasons why we might need design-transfer though.

    Would it be possible to get ruling on this soon though? It can affect what people are doing now.
    I'm not sure if it is currently possible to transfer designs to another cartel. I'll leave that for @Ieptix to answer. Conversely, some orgs may not want their designs to become public as they may have designs made for secret purposes or special ranks. I'd love to hear suggestions on how you guys think the best way to handle them would be.
    Thul said:
    So... what happens with guild mobs? Guards and the like? Are we looking at 18 new sets of loyals?
    The idea right now (subject to change) is to leave the guards the same and just have them summoned by a new Ministry of Security rather than by individual guilds.

  • TremulaTremula the Fate's choice for Drocilla Member Posts: 2,360 Transcendent
    What will happen to the people who are the guildmasters of the current guilds? Will they auto-default to any guild appointed roles, or will we need to choose them again?
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • AedenAeden Member Posts: 39 Novice
    Nyxx said:
    Zvoltz said:
    Ayisdra said:
    Sylandra said:
    Sometimes when you're the person in charge you have to make a tough call. Running a game isn't about being popular, it's about putting together the best version of Lusternia that you can. You may have made another choice in this situation, but this is the choice being made. I'd say forming a team of players to assist in this process is far from proving there is no respect for the playerbase; honestly, they could have made changes without consulting us at all.

    Plus I really doubt Estarra could ever pitch to IRE "hey why don't you just cut some other games mine is the coolest one" y'know?

    Let's be real. No decision is about making the best version of Lusternia. All decisions made are about what makes the most money. Having novices come to the game is what causes more money to come in. The fact that sometimes the choices overlap these two areas (best version and what makes money) is just an added plus.

    If it was about making the best version of Lusternia, there would be no guild overhaul (and/or no need for it)
    I just want to point out that I was the one who really pushed this proposal to the rest of the admin and Estarra (someone who actually makes money from the game) was against it when we first started out. I don't make any money from Lusternia (though full disclosure Sarapis did give me a gift card for Christmas so I guess I might have made $0.01/hour this year). While having less guilds will probably lead to better novice retention and more money from those novices, none of that really motivates me because I don't see any of that money. What does motivate me is my passion and love for the game, which is why I work it like a part time job for no pay. The best version of Lusternia, to me, is one where we have organizations that have more than two people online at a time and one where new players join and stay because it looks like their are people in their guild rather than that they are playing an empty game.

    Take a look at what experienced players have said about this being a good change for the game. Head over to Achaea's forums and read about how people over there think it is insane that we have twice as many guilds for a population half the size. I get that this will be a difficult  and unpopular change for people, but it was in no way motivated by money and to try to reduce it to that is really pointless and counterproductive.

    Edit: Also ikons were my idea and I'm not sure how that is connected to more money. Unless people are blowing cash on the golden ikon packs, ikons were really only meant to be a fun collectable TCG and almost all of it is accessible just by playing the game.

    The best version of Lusternia to me is one where we dont have just one or two people with ALL THE POWER in the city and guild/faction or whatever it's going to be I'm sorry but having just one or two people with all the power in the city is ridiculous it's going to lead to nothing but an extreme abuse of power and nepotism and people arent going to be abl to do much about it because they'll have no where else to turn and yes I realize that people are just going to reply that with "well then contest them!" I'm sorry but it is just NOT that simple and to reduce it to that is also counterproductive. my best version of Lusternia is where what the players want is cared about.. where just once in a while they listen to the people who say NO instead of the people who say yes (yes @Everiine I do understand that 50% of the people would be upset either way but do YOU get that they have never ONCE listened to the people who said no to an idea and just did what they wanted too anyways?)


    Also Ikons were just something I threw out there as an example of something new added that was really unneccessary. not that they arent cool. not that goop isnt cool or that curious arent cool.. they ARE awesome lil things but they do mean people have to spend more money (maybe not ikons specifically but dont get too focused on technicalities here!) on things that are really pointless and offer no means of player retention or anything. just funky stuff for the old players to spend more cash on. it's frustrating when there are more important things to do and more important things to fix. 
    About that last part, yes, I found myself over the years of being annoyed by constant new curios and other e-toys of course, and I wonder to myself as to why precedence was placed on fixing the many internal nuances of the game or even add in new/fun conquests(not necessarily have to involve pk either). Though, unfortunately... I suppose it maybe easier to do that than to working fixing and keeping the car running smoothly-in so many words. However, hopefully this will seek to solve player attraction issues, but likely not I believe and interesting nonetheless.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,331 Transcendent
    For the record, part of this is also to enable those who want to be 'general citizens' to remain without a faction, right?
  • ZvoltzZvoltz Member, Gods Posts: 399 Divine
    We haven't really discussed how being factionless would work and that might be something we stay silent on but orgs may handle different. Even though there might not be a mechanical requirement to join a faction (similar to how right now you can be in a city without a guild), a city might demand that citizens join a faction or they might not care. At this point I think it is too early to tell.

  • IslunaIsluna Member Posts: 225 Adept
    edited February 2016
    Could try and see if the GM can redeed a guild-deeded cartel to themselves, then to the org. I really want to say it can be done... Or has been at some point- It could have been changed. I could be completely wrong.

    I am wondering about guild libraries. Not all have a ton of guild member only books, some might. What will happen to them?

    So many things to look at!





    Currently Playing in: The doctors office. One more needle and I might just lose it again.
  • LavinyaLavinya Former Queen of Snark AustraliaMember Posts: 3,353 Transcendent
    Deeded Clans/cartels/manses will be tricky I think.

    One thought on the guild libraries was perhaps they can be incorporated into the org library as separate wings? Ie historical sections, this was the library of the Nihilists of old.

    An alternative thought it so to keep them as part of the old guild halls - which would be opened to the public (or those with that class at least?) as pseudo museums, preserving the information as historical relics. Or perhaps some orgs would repurpose them, like a bard guildhall might become an extension of the stage, practice rooms and dressing rooms and storage etc with some preservation of 'the bard guild that was had their residence here, etc etc.

    And maybe each org could have some flexibility in what they do with the old guild halls/libraries? Like one org might want to bring them in as new library wings, while another might wish to preserve the historical relics whole, library included.

    Idk, throwing out thoughts. 



  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,626 Mythical
    Tremula said:
    What will happen to the people who are the guildmasters of the current guilds? Will they auto-default to any guild appointed roles, or will we need to choose them again?
    This really should not happen, at most maybe a group of players would be made "founders" (inducted to the guild at rank 3) and maybe those might be former guild leaders.
    But any position they get in a faction should be either elected by the faction or appointed by a leader of it.
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  • KrackenorKrackenor Member Posts: 594 Gifted
    Lavinya said:
    Deeded Clans/cartels/manses will be tricky I think.

    One thought on the guild libraries was perhaps they can be incorporated into the org library as separate wings? Ie historical sections, this was the library of the Nihilists of old.

    An alternative thought it so to keep them as part of the old guild halls - which would be opened to the public (or those with that class at least?) as pseudo museums, preserving the information as historical relics. Or perhaps some orgs would repurpose them, like a bard guildhall might become an extension of the stage, practice rooms and dressing rooms and storage etc with some preservation of 'the bard guild that was had their residence here, etc etc.

    And maybe each org could have some flexibility in what they do with the old guild halls/libraries? Like one org might want to bring them in as new library wings, while another might wish to preserve the historical relics whole, library included.

    Idk, throwing out thoughts. 
    I actually really, really like the idea of the guildhalls remaining available to those with the skill. We can take the seat of power away from them (all the tower tops got blown over, no more offices :(), but it lets the guildhall tutors stay put and there's a connection to the past.
  • HinicHinic Member Posts: 3 Inept

    I've fallen way behind in this discussion and I wrote this a while back with the intention to post it on the old thread, but I think it is still worth saying.


    In my view, if we were going to get rid of the guilds because they're empty, fragmented and socially alienating, then we need to replace them with a flexible structure that helps us develop our characters' reasons to interact and our roles in that interaction. I propose a goal that each faction/coalition we come up with appeal to at least 2 of the 4 Bartle Types (explorers, achievers, socializers and killers) [which I know some people might not fit into, but it's simple and helps us not forget about some of the less vocal playstyles]. On the flipside, it should also be a goal for each Bartle Type to have a home in at least 1 of the 3 factions/coalitions.

  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me. Member Posts: 1,611 Transcendent
    That is a brilliant suggestion and I hope that future factions follow suit.
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  • AltreaAltrea Member Posts: 193 Gifted
    While the Wikipedia overview on the Bartle Types @Hinic linked to is nice, I do highly recommend everybody interested in any of that to read the actual paper by Richard Bartle (who, for anybody not aware of the history here, is often credited as the inventor of MUDs along with the lesser known Roy Trubshaw), which exists here: http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

    It's not too lengthy and is, at least in my opinion, a valuable read.
  • HaghanHaghan Member Posts: 30 Capable
    Another question on the faction designs:   Lusternia has a 'natural opposites' subtheme going through it. The spirits, the elemental planes, the cosmic planes, all had an opposites theme.  Are we going to try to preserve at all in how we shift to coalitions?    Will we discard it as hackneyed and cliched?  Will we remove some of the 'mirrored' elements but keep the rivalries?

    I'm all for vastly different enemy orgs, but sometimes the best written enemies have similarities. Also while discarding some of the  pre-scripted opppositon can definitely open up more variety, it's a totally different flavor. Is the opposites theme integral to the game and if so do the new faction systems maintain that?

     
  • HallenHallen Member Posts: 79 Capable
    Given that most of the oppositions are rooted in the overall communities (i.e. Nil is tied to Magnagora, not just the Nihilists, Celestia to Celest, not just the Celestines), I don't see how a movement to factions would affect those oppositions significantly.
  • AllyrianneAllyrianne Member Posts: 334 Expert
    I know I've been reading along in the Gaudiguch thread to see what they're up to, and reading their plans definitely has had a role in shaping the ideas that I've been trying to write up (emphasis on trying). I think there is value in really playing up the Logic vs Enlightenment, deliberate creation v mystic revelry, spreaders of collectivism v goon squad mob, because it helps us refine the presentation, and is useful for future rivalry development/direct competition. 

    I think relying on the rivalry in the overall communities risks diluting some of the dichotomies between rival organisations if we don't make sure to emphasise the opposing perspectives in the factions. I think some organisations (especially Celest and Magnagora) are more naturally going to fall into mirroring factions, but I think Gaudiguch and Hallifax could really take advantage of this to reclarify just where their fundamentals divide.
  • HallenHallen Member Posts: 79 Capable
    I think it's also worth mentioning that there are multiple axes of opposition, cf. the Xion Initiative/the Hai'Gloh thingy.
  • AeldraAeldra Member Posts: 863 Mythical
    For a while I've been really 'uhh gods, no why?' to this guild overhaul thing. But given it some time and reading some of the amazingly creative things people come up with, I am rather believing this can and will be something great. You go people :-)
  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    Altrea said:
    While the Wikipedia overview on the Bartle Types @Hinic linked to is nice, I do highly recommend everybody interested in any of that to read the actual paper by Richard Bartle (who, for anybody not aware of the history here, is often credited as the inventor of MUDs along with the lesser known Roy Trubshaw), which exists here: http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

    It's not too lengthy and is, at least in my opinion, a valuable read.

    Everyone should read the primary literature.
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • DelphasDelphas Member Posts: 488 Virtuoso
    More accurate: http://www.nickyee.com/pubs/Yee - MMORPG Demographics 2006.pdf

    Also: kindly keep the Divine Orders out of this.
    </RANT>
  • GhaloaireGhaloaire Member Posts: 31 Apprentice
    edited May 2016
    Any word on the status of the guild overhauls?
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,722 Transcendent
    I can't speak to the others, but the Serenwilde factions have been settled on, though they are still being tweaked. We're now at a stage where we're inventorying every item, emote, denizen, etc. connected to the guilds so we can work on what can be kept.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • NeftarysNeftarys Member Posts: 27 Capable
    Luce said:
    Arcanis said:
    I think the concept of 'guild permissions' should be negated completely. Just make it that if you are part of the City/commune that the class is connected to, then you can flex to it. I dont see why we should even think to still have it tied to the new guilds. If someone outside wants the skills of an archetype connected to a different city, then perhaps they should just buck up and move to said city, if they love their skills so much.
    Hi, I live in Hallifax. Have you seen our wonderful monk guild? Me neither.
    In fairness, from lurking through old forum posts and such, it seems like the reason Halli/Guadimonks haven't yet been released is that adding two more guilds would exacerbate exactly the problem that this restructuring seeks to fix. Hopefully now that this shouldn't be a problem, Hallifax and Gaudiguch will see their monk classes released.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,626 Mythical
    edited December 2016
    Necro but it's the best thread for it... Would there be any updates on when factions might be progressing again? Or if they are just behind the scenes?

    I mostly just want to delve back into them again >_> :P
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  • ThaxThax Member, Gods Posts: 49 Divine
    We have been trying to catch up on other things so they are probably going to take on a bigger focus early next year. The faction planning clans are still there if you want to give them a poke and see where they are at. 
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