The New Coalitions for Glomdoring Thread[+]

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  • LavinyaLavinya Former Queen of Snark AustraliaMember Posts: 3,354 Transcendent
    I think it's a good opportunity to broaden our roleplay, really. At the moment you don't really see people who say, both worship Night and Crow, because of their guild. The factions though would make it much less rigid, and I think that's a positive thing. Crow faction and Night faction just feels very narrow - I think both are extremely fundamental to Glomdoring and don't need to pigeonholed to one faction or another - so having the factions based on broader concepts leaves room for anyone and everyone to follow one or the other or both to their own degrees without feeling out of place in their faction.



  • RancouraRancoura the Last Nightwreathed Queen CanadaMember Posts: 1,322 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Based on its already-existing popularity, Lusternia's motto clearly needs to become "No pigeonholing."

    That aside, I would like to avoid factions being focussed on one specific Spirit as well, for the reason that Xenthos mentioned (neglecting the ideals of the other guilds). I think this is a great opportunity for Glomdoring's spirituality to be spread thoroughly through its orgs, and really opens up the avenue for a spiritually unified people who are more or less on the same page with each other.

    I also agree wholeheartedly that we should avoid having "pkers and fighters go here" and "rpers go here." ESPECIALLY if one Spirit will be more predominant in the other. Crow and Night are equally excellent avenues for both combatants and roleplayers, and I would really hate to see them denied by certain types of players because they prefer one Spirit over the other (or combat over roleplay).
    Tonight amidst the mountaintops   
    And endless starless night   
    Singing how the wind was lost   
    Before an earthly flight
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,735 Transcendent
    Far less picking needed there. That is very similar to the "body/spirit/voice of Glomdoring" concept mentioned by Crek earlier. Note that it was originally approached in the manner you are doing it, and then correlated after the fact to being parts of the whole (which is why I kind of hate discussing it as the parts as an explanation, it just strips it down too much). Dominance / blood being most closely equated with the "body" aspect. Your vision of inner beauty / perfection being the spirit. And obviously the latter being analogous to the voice (or whatever term we end up going with). But each would also have aspects tied to what they bring to the Forest. Body protects and makes the physical forest flourish, as an example, so has a heavy tie to the Prime forest. Spirit, then, would be the spiritual end, with a strong bond to the Ethereal and the fae. Voice would likely have a strong tie to culture and the dominance / growth of the Forest through that means (but obviously, these are each just a facet of more complex entities).
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  • KregarnKregarn Member Posts: 34 Capable
    Note: I was not going to post this here because I don't like how this muddies things but this is something I submitted to the people making decisions early on.

    As far as I'm able to determine, the divisions of the guilds will focus on body/spirit/everythingelse which I believe to be too general and takes away from the unique qualities of Glomdoring. Every other organization can split their factions the same way and for me, that is an injustice. So, instead, I want to propose something different.


    The general idea behind this is to key in on what makes us unique as an organization. What are the things which we claim to be truly Wyrden rather than a general truth that other organizations do as well?


    Mercilessness


    Not only is Glomdoring merciless to outsiders, giving no quarter to those who do not see the truth of the Wyrd, but to themselves and those of the Wyrd. We bleed our own so that they learn and grow. This isn't just mercilessness in combat but in every pursuit. Mercilessly destroying someone in a debate or cultural pursuits is just as worthy of honor as any other. We prove our dominance because we are unwilling to bend in our zealotry for the Wyrd.


    Deception


    Glomdoring is about deception but not simply deception, believing without a doubt what others cannot or will not see as truth. We see this in False Memory of Crow and Penumbra of Night. It is about deceiving so thoroughly that we cannot believe anything else. We succeed by manipulating and tricking those around us to bend to our will. We don't need logic because we have the Wyrd and the Wyrd is all.


    Evolution


    We took the taint and made it what we desired it to be. We've created beauty and strength from what was dismissed as worthless and disgusting. Serenwilde believes that purity will save them, it's obvious that it has not and that is why the Wyrd is superior. It is constantly changing in order to overtake everything in it's own time.


    These are the ideals I believe truly make us unique and should be the building blocks of the three factions. There is actually a lot to draw from these that may even come down to your body/spirit/everythingelse divisions that were posted on the forums. If we divide the factions this way, though, we don't risk having all the warriors in one faction and all the culture in another. If this becomes the case, which I've seen in Achaea when they recently went through their house revision, we lose plain and simple.


    If we can make this faction development less about pigeonholing styles of play and more about celebrating the unique aspects of Glomdoring and only Glomdoring, we all win.


  • RancouraRancoura the Last Nightwreathed Queen CanadaMember Posts: 1,322 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    @Kregarn - after a discussion, I believe we're thinking that we can blend your ideas into the body/spirit/voice thing. 

    Firstly, though, I'd like to sort of clarify what body/spirit/voice will mean for the factions. NOTE: This is my impression. Any other Glommies are free to correct me if they like.

    Body is not meant to include only combatants. Body is the physical manifestation of Glomdoring - this includes the physical forest, as well as the mortal bodies that dwell in it. The forest's floral caretakers might find this faction appealing as well -- herbalists, totem-carvers, people with strong ties to animals, and the like. Essentially, it would also be dedicated to the "preservation" of the physical forest, in all its forms.

    Spirit would be for the spiritual enhancement and cultivation of Glomdoring. Perhaps focusing more on the Spirits (as well as the Idols and Mahalla), these would be the ones who conduct rituals, deliver sermons, write liturgies, tend to the Fae, etc. It would perhaps focus on the spiritual enrichment and cultivation of the commune.

    Voice could be for those focused more on culturally spreading the glory of the Wyrd. Those who are inclined to write plays and books, design trade items that reflect the beauty of the Wyrd, diplomats and politicians who would seek to spread the Wyrd through oration, storytellers who could seduce others with glorious stories about Glomdoring, etc, might find themselves here. They could also be the upholders of cultural traditions and teach of Glomdoring's lore. I also wouldn't find it odd for combatants who enjoy raiding to find a place in the Voice faction, as by their actions they would be certainly sharing our culture with the blood that they spill. So this faction could perhaps be seen as being focused more on the aggressive advancement of Glomdoring, through various methods.


    As for the inward/outward focus, I imagine Spirit to be inward, Voice to be more outward, and Body to be a healthy mix of both.


    That said, I feel like all of Kregarn's ideas could be spread through all of these factions. Each can embody the three traits of Mercilessness, Deception and Evolution through their own avenues. Body can focus on evolving our combat tactics, Spirit can teach the art of deception, Voice can be merciless in fighting for Cultural Centre and all that. I'd personally like to see a blend of each throughout the factions, because, as we are focusing on having all three factions be united as a whole, these three main concepts should be shared by all.
    Tonight amidst the mountaintops   
    And endless starless night   
    Singing how the wind was lost   
    Before an earthly flight
  • RancouraRancoura the Last Nightwreathed Queen CanadaMember Posts: 1,322 Transcendent
    Kregarn said:

    If we can make this faction development less about pigeonholing styles of play and more about celebrating the unique aspects of Glomdoring and only Glomdoring, we all win.


    Also, to address this point here. Essentially, I feel like the three separations that you outlined are really just... too vague. They're incredibly similar to each other, and I feel like this would be more difficult for players to choose between. I am concerned that one of the body/spirit/voice factions might encounter the possibility of one or two being the most popular and leaving another one more empty, but this is why we should find a way to make something in each faction appeal to nearly all types of players. For those who pretty much know what they want to do, however (i.e. I want to do PvP! I want to write books! I want to be a religious fanatic!), I feel like the body/spirit/voice system is much more decision-friendly.
    Tonight amidst the mountaintops   
    And endless starless night   
    Singing how the wind was lost   
    Before an earthly flight
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,373 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    I feel like spirit/body/voice is coming across as religious/politics and culture/begrudgingly PK with the disclaimer that everyone is welcome. 

    If you're looking to integrate, I think the traditional flesh/spirit/voice (i don't get voice, it's weird in this context.) is definitely not going to give you that as they are currently being described. 

    I do think Kregarn/Nienla's direciton does a much better job at describing aspects/ideals of Glomdoring that appeal across multiple talents and interests. 

    Obviously there's a correlation between blood/body and mercilessness but it's not a synonymous. When you talk "body" of Glomdoring in the context of people who take care of trees and the combatants, you're pretty much only going to get combatants because "I mulch trees" isn't a really popular central RP theme. Mercilessness, however, can also be a political mantra. It's not just murder death kill. Mainly murder death kill, sure, but not specifically. 
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  • RancouraRancoura the Last Nightwreathed Queen CanadaMember Posts: 1,322 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    I think what we're trying to avoid is grouping all the combatants in one faction. I feel like the "Mercilessness" sect will do just that. It's definitely not our intention to put combatants on the back burner and tell them they can join if they want to, we're just trying to find a balance so that PvPers and RPers are evenly spaced throughout.

    And it's proving to be a little difficult, as you can see. 
    Tonight amidst the mountaintops   
    And endless starless night   
    Singing how the wind was lost   
    Before an earthly flight
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,373 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Inevitably combatants congregate, especially now that they won't be tied to guilds. I think discussing how to make guilds split up the PKers is a distraction, and not a particularly important conversation, given that PKers will congregate together regardless of how you spin the guilds. That's just what PKers do. Give 8 PKers in Glom the choice between 8 PK guilds, and most of them will wind up together in the same one. The only reason they don't now is because of guild/archetype decisions.

    So long as you avoid the Achaea model of "This is literally the PK guild," I don't think it's fundamentally unhealthy for some guilds to appeal to PKers over others.

    I don't think Mercilessness is inherently specific to PK. Politics can be merciless. Viravain is merciless and she's not a third circle god (2nd? whatever the warriors were). It might be the more obvious pk choice but it's not PK specific. 
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  • RancouraRancoura the Last Nightwreathed Queen CanadaMember Posts: 1,322 Transcendent
    I suppose we just need to be careful about how we paint things. And if the PKers will band together regardless, that's perfectly fine - I just wouldn't want to make it seem like they -have- to join one of the specific factions because it's expected.
    Tonight amidst the mountaintops   
    And endless starless night   
    Singing how the wind was lost   
    Before an earthly flight
  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    Can there be two factions mechanically? Has that been resolved or are we stuck with three slots?
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • NienlaNienla Member Posts: 272 Expert
    Kaalak said:
    Can there be two factions mechanically? Has that been resolved or are we stuck with three slots?
    While I'd prefer two, it has been strongly hinted that three is what we'll have to live with. Two isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it's unlikely.
  • RancouraRancoura the Last Nightwreathed Queen CanadaMember Posts: 1,322 Transcendent
    I feel like 3 is best for Glomdoring anyhow. If there are two, it will most likely be divided into Crow/Night, leaving the Idols and Mahalla on the sidelines.
    Tonight amidst the mountaintops   
    And endless starless night   
    Singing how the wind was lost   
    Before an earthly flight
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,755 Transcendent
    We're having a similar discussion about what to do with spirits (though we have 6 we can work with). We too don't want to have Moon/Hart/Other, but how to do that is an interesting challenge so far.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

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  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    eh here's a stab. 

    Conspiracy of the Silent; Conspiracy of the Shade; Fanged Shadows (Night, Nekotai, "Talons" of Crow")

    Hmm. this is falling apart. 
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    edited February 2016
    Bear with me on this and yea or nay it. 

    Four parts of an ecology: vegetation --> herbivores --> predators --> decomposers --> vegetation. 

    Ignore herbivores. 


    vegetation : druid - something; Blooming Mercilessness? Merciless Proliferators? Rise of the Merciless? 

    predators: Fanged Shadows

    decomposers : Darkling Feasters?  Revivificators?  
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • KregarnKregarn Member Posts: 34 Capable
    Ok, I think that your take on the three divisions is off. I'll just be honest. If the goal is to make it easy for people to decide which faction they BELONG in, sure, divide it physical/spiritual/cultural. That's an easy decision for newbies coming in but they will see through all the flowery wording to that basic division.

    Personally, I hate that we're going to try to make this an easy decision. I want everyone to struggle with which faction they want to explore the RP in.

    The thing that makes Nienla and my own divisions unique/different/less easy is that they are not inherently dividing Glomdoring into three easy to understand factions. Let's look at this from the viewpoint of a newbie coming into Glomdoring.

    Newbie A: Bob
    Class: Warrior

    Bob wants to be a warrior. He wants to swing a big sword and cut things. Doesn't matter if it's PK or bashing, he wants to swing a sword. He looks at the three guilds (physical/spiritual/cultural) and can decide in a few minutes that physical is obviously where he needs to go. A sword is physical, it's not doing silly dances in the woods, it's not preaching to people, it's a sword. Bob is going to the physical faction.

    Bob wants to be a warrior. He wants to swing a big sword and cut things. Doesn't matter if it's PK or bashing, he wants to swing a sword. He looks at the three guilds (merciless/deception/evolution) and has to sit there a moment to really look through them. Does he want to sneak around and kill things that he shouldn't? Does he just want to murder everything in his path? Does he want to evolve? (what the Nil does that even mean?) Bob isn't sure which guild he's going to choose but merciless seems more his style so he chooses Merciless.

    In the example above, the first decision was easy. Didn't really have to think hard about it. Again, if that's your goal, great! The second decision wasn't easy or straightforward. Now, he chose what most would think of as the PK faction. Maybe, he goes on to figure out that the RP in evolution is a little more his style as he's made friends with these people who are constantly trying to teach and learn and change rather than murder anything in their path. Most likely, he's not going to choose spiritual and dance around with the fae, he wants to swing a sword after all.

    Newbie B: Sarah
    Class: Nekotai

    Sarah is a true newbie and has one paragraph to figure out what each faction is about. She wants to be a dark monk who acts as a spy and has really thought out her character. She wants to dabble in dark rituals though she has no idea how to go about it. She looks at the three factions (physical/spiritual/cultural) and feels that physical must be her style because stealth and kata and acrobatics are all physical things. She's not worshiping night, she just wants to do dark rituals and dabble in it. She chooses physical because she figures that most of the monks are going to be there.

    Sarah is a true newbie and has one paragraph to figure out what each faction is about. She wants to be a dark monk who acts as a spy and has really thought out her character. She wants to dabble in dark rituals though she has no idea how to go about it. She looks at the three factions (merciless/deception/evolution) and has to think for a bit. Well, as a spy, deception makes a lot of sense but she doesn't want to stay stagnant and "just be a monk". Merciless doesn't make a lot of sense to her because her play style is more sneaky/trickery. Deception it is, with the understanding that she's going to look into which is better for her character.

    So again, we have a true newbie which in most cases is going to see the physical guild and think they have to go that way to learn how to monk. Whereas, with these divisions, the newbie has to think about how they want to develop their character rather than what sort of playstyle they want.

    I think you have it backwards, these divisions are not predilections to  certain playstyle but one that makes a player think what sort of character they've begun to play.

    I'll use myself as a final example.

    physical/spiritual/cultural

    I don't need to think about this at all. I'm going to the physical faction. I'm a warrior first and foremost, at least right now. I've been playing Lusternia off and on for 5 years, I know well enough that I can dabble in the other aspects but right now I want to play a warrior/killer/hunter.

    merciless/deception/evolution

    I have been thinking about this and I wouldn't choose merciless. Not because I want to prove you wrong but because I honestly believe that evolution fits Kregarn far better. His life has been quicksilver, constantly changing and growing and learning. His utmost desire is to be the best at everything and a faction of like-minded people who desire similarly is going to be the best way to get there. Kreg's not big about deception, he can be brutally honest. He's merciless, at times, but that's not his strongest belief. Of all the things that make him uniquely Wyrden, evolution is the top and that's what he wants to do. Evolve in all aspects of his life, physical, spiritual and cultural.


  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    edited February 2016
    Hmm. 

    Since I can't say "social Darwinism" when it comes to evolution....

    I don't think the word "mutation" really applies to Glomdoring at all though that would be technically correct. 

    Red Queen hypothesis is out as well or is it? 


    That would work well for an "evolution" group but how to turn "red queen" into something lusternian without invoking Alice in Wonderland?

    Sanguine Queen Devotees? Bloody Maeve? 

    "The evolvers" as a term just sounds bland.
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • KregarnKregarn Member Posts: 34 Capable

    Kaalak said:
    Hmm. 

    Since I can't say "social Darwinism" when it comes to evolution....

    I don't think the word "mutation" really applies to Glomdoring at all though that would be technically correct. 

    Red Queen hypothesis is out as well or is it? 


    That would work well for an "evolution" group but how to turn "red queen" into something lusternian without invoking Alice in Wonderland?

    Sanguine Queen Devotees? Bloody Maeve? 

    "The evolvers" as a term just sounds bland.
    I'm not worried about names at the moment, it's the ideas behind the guilds that I'm concerned with. I'm concerned that they'll turn out to be too easily categorized. Names can always be decided later. Thank you, though, for this. It'll help later on.

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,373 Transcendent
    The Growers, Not Showers
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  • NochtNocht Member, Gods Posts: 89 Divine
    On the other hand, you don't want the factions ideologies to be so esoteric that a newbie couldn't easily grasp what they're about.

    I've always loved the evolution theme in Glomdoring, and I think that'd be interesting to explore. I do worry, like @Rancoura said, that things like Mercilessness could be too vague. Perhaps a better word is too broad. Glomdoring is the forest of no mercy. Will a faction really be unique for being merciless? In theory, everyone in Glomdoring should be that way. 

    I think I understand your concerns about linking certain factions to certain play styles. I've been thinking it over most of this afternoon, and I'm not sure yet if I agree. I'd be curious what everyone else thinks with regards to that!

    Thank you all for your ideas/comments, by the way. Whatever we decide on, we'll be stuck with it for a long time so I'm sure we all want it to be the best possible setup it can be. That won't happen without sharing and debating all these points!


  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    edited February 2016
    "Brutal" could be substituted instead of "without Mercy", however "Brutalist" is an architectural school where one concretes (yes as a verb, that I made up) everything and could be confusing.
    Celina says "Well I was only mocking out of obligation."
  • KregarnKregarn Member Posts: 34 Capable
    edited February 2016
    I don't know how to quote so I'll just respond. I don't think that merciless is too broad. Everyone is supposed to be evolving and deceptive too. They're ideals that makes Glomdoring unique. The merciless are those who force others to their will without... mercy. The deceptives bend them to their will, perhaps with mercilessness, but the perception is different. The evolutionists may be merciless in their pursuit of change but if the merciless aren't evolving, they're a one trick pony. It all ties together.

    What happens with the physical/spiritual/cultural division is that they become a pigeonhole where the physical don't feel they can develop spiritually because that's the spiritualists role in the commune.

    If you feel mercilessness isn't adequate as a descriptor, fine, but that's a unique phrase that makes us Wyrden.

    EDIT: Also, it's less about these ideals being the only thing these factions are about but what they choose to focus on as an aspect of being Wyrden.
  • TylwythTylwyth Member Posts: 1,480 Fabled
    Actually I could totally see glomoring liking brutalist architecture. Or maybe a gothic/brutalist combo.
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  • TylwythTylwyth Member Posts: 1,480 Fabled
    Kregarn said:
    I don't know how to quote so I'll just respond. I don't think that merciless is too broad. 


    If you feel mercilessness isn't adequate as a descriptor, fine, but that's a unique phrase that makes us Wyrden.

    It's more that people are worried about putting/attracting/getting all the PKers in one faction. And merciless seems like it would do just that.
    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

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  • KregarnKregarn Member Posts: 34 Capable
    Tylwyth said:
    Kregarn said:
    I don't know how to quote so I'll just respond. I don't think that merciless is too broad. 


    If you feel mercilessness isn't adequate as a descriptor, fine, but that's a unique phrase that makes us Wyrden.

    It's more that people are worried about putting/attracting/getting all the PKers in one faction. And merciless seems like it would do just that.
    I'm pretty sure I just proved the opposite since the prevailing argument against my idea is now become "Merciless is too broad." Physical will become the pk guild for at least warriors/monks, you can almost bet your life savings on it. Merciless can apply to any play-style. I wouldn't go Merciless, as my post stated, simply because my rp is an evolving warrior... who bashes things with physical weapons.
  • NochtNocht Member, Gods Posts: 89 Divine
    edited February 2016
    How do you picture a faction being built around that? What would separate them from the other two factions with regards to what you do in that faction to advance?

    Edit: Oh wow. You beat me to it!
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