Ideas for new Magnagoran Factions/Guilds

OtheroOthero Member Posts: 832 Virtuoso
Ok, I know some people are waiting to hear from admins but I'm too excited to not post something. What sort of new guilds would people like to see in Magnagora? 

I personally am hoping that we can keep away from any guild being too focus on any one "play style". What I mean is if the groups are broken down between military, arts, and politics then we will end up with each faction only having one sort of person in it. They should have a big tent idea to their design, each one needs to have artists, scholars, fighters, politicians, spies, ect. 

For Magnagora specifically I hope we can preserve some of the cool lore that each guild currently has. I'd hate to see each new faction just be the "new" nihilists and "new" ur'Guard. It would be great, for example, that if one new faction is based around transformation that they get the Gorgulu worship from the Nihilists, the Necromancy lore that the ur'Guard has. They would get the crazy mad scientist stuff that the Geomancers had. If there was one about spies they would get both the Ninjakari stuff but also Baalphegar and Nihilists as these spiritual police.

Obviously this is not the new clans and we will probably see more concrete info later but this seems like an awesome place to spitball things.
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Comments

  • ThulThul Member Posts: 568 Fabled
    Given that I'm both new to Magnagora and... pretty much a total hermit by nature, I can't say I fully understand the city's RP just yet. I did have a few ideas that might keep away from the whole "new old guild" sort of thing, and we're spitballing here.

    So, you've got the House of Lords, House of the Faithful... and one other, I'm thinking House of Commons. Workshop the names, definitely.

    House of Lords is for everyone who wants to play with the city's noble family mythos, struggling for power with/against the other houses/your own house. Ideally, the equivalent position of guild leader should be under near-constant contention.

    House of the Faithful is for those who want to focus on... well, faith. Not just the Demon Lords, but the rest of Magnagora's pantheon. They'll probably have a handle on most of the city's cultural events.

    The third faction, probably most in need of rework, would be the House of Commons. Here are your beggars, your urchins, the deformed and the deranged and the disgraced, but through the power and mastery of the Taint, even the lowly can grow powerful.
  • ZarialleZarialle Member Posts: 97 Adept
    I like the idea of trying to break out of the mold a bit. Right now the guilds could easily be broken out into three just using the covenants:
    - Mercenaries and Assassins (Ur'Guard/Ninjakari)
    - Scientists (Geomancers)
    - Arts and Religion (Cacophony/Nihilists)

    But does this even begin to accomplish what this overhaul is meant to do? How many exist today who enjoy class skills from one guild, but do not necessarily follow that line of RP. 

    In Magnagora a Religious faction feels almost necessary, just because of the type of RP here. And within that one, there can be several paths for advancement which can cater to the preferences/desires of the members. So those who enjoy combat can still advance through this while fulfilling their need/desire for more religious-based RP as part of their character's identity. 

    Along the above lines, perhaps the scientist idea from above would get rolled into the "religious" faction. As experimenting seems pretty fundamental to the lore in Magnagora, how it came to be, and how it continues to survive today. 

    Obviously, I'd be partial to a separate Cultural faction of some kind. Perhaps this Cultural org can cater to arts of all kinds and politics. Maybe this would focus on the ethics of combat and how to do so with honour rather than being a militant arm alone? 

    As for a third aspect of Magnagora - scholars/lorewardens. These would differ from the above two because they would not necessarily emphasis devotion/worship to the Demon Lords and Lady, or philosophise, but research the facts and histories. 

    I can see how combat can be interwoven with the above, but not sure it really satisfies the deeper desire of some to make combat the main focus of their RP, which oft necessitates a separate organisation to accommodate their focus. The one thing that may be a challenge or perhaps an interesting endeavour, is that any new org, with guilds going away, can/will have to cater to multiple classes for combat going forward. Having a single org focused on knowing all aspects of a city's breadth of classes in this way can be beneficial. 

    One thing I talked with @Esca about at one point just between Cacophony and Nihilists is an exchange program of sorts. This way, novice Cacophony students can get a deeper understanding of the Demons Lords and Lady by having a task to specifically work with the Nihilists on something to advance and vice versa. We never did figure out a good way to "exchange" students but we only just started throwing around the idea recently. Something like this would also be interesting going forward depending on how Magnagoran factions end up looking like.
    Zarialle's first dance:
    Trader Bob leads Zarialle through the dancers to the dance floor and brings her all the way to its heart.
  • KrackenorKrackenor Member Posts: 594 Gifted
    The biggest issue with the House of Lords/Commons/Priests is that it reeks of a caste system, and I do not see that working out for everybody at all. Plus, the factional glue that holds the groups together seems pretty weak..."Ah, Viscount Fuzzywhiskers, it is super lovely being a lord, isn't it! Let us do the one interest we have in common with each other and poke those Commoners with a pointy stick!" "Why yes Baalgoformeth the Pulverizer, it IS super lovely being a lord. Honestly, I'd rather poke your brutish self with a stick, but those Commoners won't debase themselves!"

    I think it would be interesting if we took some of the core underlying themes of Magnagora (Engine of Transformation, progress at all costs, etc.) and had the three factions based around different methods of exemplifying and propagating that value. I'm sleepy now, but I'll try to think of some specific examples in the coming days.
  • ZarialleZarialle Member Posts: 97 Adept
    Re: Midnight Legion - That is true, might as well use it as more than just a clan, which people have to otherwise join manually.

    @Krackenor - different ways of progressing the Engine? I'll be curious - I'm rather tired too so that is all I could muster... lol 
    Zarialle's first dance:
    Trader Bob leads Zarialle through the dancers to the dance floor and brings her all the way to its heart.
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 395 Virtuoso
    Traditionalists, progressives, and expansionists?

    (Revive the Balach Institute)
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    General suggestions and whatnot:

    Midnight Legion can easily become a faction, and I believe works are already in place to make a unique structure in Mag concerning them. May as well just do the last bit. Could just call them Ur'guard too.


    Balach Institute is a nice unique concept that I would love to see remade, not to mention would make Mugwumps have some importance again.


    Machina Transforma (or some such) focusing on evolution of self through industry.


    Could always make the Cogs In the Smog a faction, however, something to note is that urchins and beggars are generally -not- even considered a faction in Magnagoran culture. Magnagoran culture tends to try and cover up and hide urchins, deformed, and what-not. Just look at the Under-city and Gutter. The cogs are basically rebels of Magnagora, so playing such a faction would mean you are considering yourself an outcast (in it's current setup anyway). Tricky business here.


    ----

    Basically I really hope we move away from the concept of "Faction for each profession" concept, such as a Scholars faction, a Combat faction, and so forth. Those are really bland and get dull fast. I'd much more prefer each factions have unique themes and storylines in themselves. It is why I would prefer Midnight Legion simply being called Ur'guard, since they have such a rich backstory to them (lore-wise), while the legion itself seems like it would be playing towards "Combat faction".


    Balach Institute would have a lot of flavor to it, especially with such a rich history to them.
  • XarconXarcon Member Posts: 63 Capable
    Here's my opinion:

    Whatever happens in Magnagora, it should be a thematic metamorphosis... There has been multiple themes played out through the years that I've been active: Noble families, Steampunk/clockwork, Chtulhu-liked elements especially involving the Taint & Necromentate, and others revolving the other guilds I'm not familiar with. The factions could revolve on beliefs that different people adhere to. For example, the mechanization of the City would get together and support one group (City of Lost Children always pops in my head); the Noble families could work on crushing the peasants or non-traditional families; and the Chtulhu branch work on the belief that through personal sacrifice to a 'dark' god leads to greater power. In which belief would you serve would be the question presented to newbies as they are introduced into the City.

    Personally, I always wanted Mag to have more Orroshan elements (from TORG)...

    I can see the reformation taking a lot of time especially since a large part of the City will need to be redesigned as well to incorporate the new 'guilds' (and retire the old ones). Good luck!
  • ZarialleZarialle Member Posts: 97 Adept
    Kalnid said:
    Traditionalists, progressives, and expansionists?

    (Revive the Balach Institute)
    I like the ideas that spring to my mind just based on these three words... but I am curious how you would mean them aside from the dictionary definition? To me, traditionalists would be the religious aspects and maybe historians... progressives are the scientists and leaders... expansionists perhaps being culture perhaps? Though those last two can easily be interchangeable depending on the context... 

    Overall I think we're all jumping immediately to solution. For me I want to back things up a bit and ask some questions because, they form a basis for how to proceed....

    - What are guilds/factions going to -be- in this new iteration? 
    - Are they meant to prepare someone with the most basic fundamentals of Lusternia? Are they a means by which to just have another aspect of the game to "advance" in? Are we meant to prepare someone for life in -our- city with the lore and culture that comes with that? 
    - What purpose will these new orgs serve for a citizen? A means by which to learn and practice their skills? Or a roleplay community with a foundation in a specific subset of a city's lore/theme?
    - At what rank are they meant to be "proficient at life" that they can just jump into anything and "do" things or be "useful"? Because I've been playing over half a RL year now and I'm -still- learning things... this game is very rich and complex. I love that, but it's a lot to learn and expect someone to know and absorb by GR3 unless we just keep them at lower ranks for longer. 

    The Cacophony have made and continue to make small shifts in how we approach our advancement. None of that should be hugely impactful to the overhaul, but we're moving towards a direction where our advancement should better prepare our new members for life -in- Magnagora and the part we, as an org, play in the whole. Some of this has been in place since @Zeleni and I introduced the new system months ago, but we are tweaking and expanding what we hope to teach them.

    Other things I wanted to throw out there is what are main themes or core foundations of Magnagora? Concepts that uniquely define us? Versus others? 
    - Clockwork/Engine
    - Progressing forward
    - Philosophies and questions that lend itself to the Progression
    - Science that seeks new ways of doing things
    - The Taint and all that entails
    - Undeath
    - A pre-established nobility/aristocracy
    - The Demon Lords
    - Drive/Ambition 

    Hoping some of that helps or maybe spurs some other discussion. I think we generally have similar ideas of what we may end up with, but they will coalesce and gain definition by revisiting the basis of what guilds are meant to do and who we are and how we identify as a city.

    Zarialle's first dance:
    Trader Bob leads Zarialle through the dancers to the dance floor and brings her all the way to its heart.
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 395 Virtuoso
    Traditionalists are old blood - literally, since the undead don't replace their blood over time like the living do unless they get stabbed. Nobles are noble, if you aren't in a family you aren't as good. Given the nature of competing families to snap up novices I figure this won't actually be a problem. Inherits the more conservative elements of nihilists(traditional interpretations of the Five, abuse of latin, that sort of thing), certain habits of the Ninjakari(study the Ninth already, c'mon), and the classical parts of the Cacophony and more composed Magnagoran art. Uncertain which bits of geomancy would fit here. Urchins unwelcome, children are to be quiet and well-dressed. Necromancy is practiced as an art granted by the gifts of the Five.

    Progressives are radical sorts of thinkers, united in the interest of self-improvement. I'll admit I've envisioned this largely as a scholarly faction due to interest in reviving the Institute, with a focus upon amalgamydic necromancy and, with the arrival of geochemantics, general augmentation. Include the more touched of the Geomancers(both dirt and metal), some of the more particular interpretations of the Five(How closely can we emulate the Devourer without going batshit and melting? The Prince's despair is an extension of truth, so on), and the (comparatively) free-spirited bits of the Ninjakari. Urchins welcome, and in fact all slum-dwellers welcome with the caveat that if you're unimportant enough or your mutations are interesting enough you might end up in a lab on the wrong side of a containment field, although pariahs are still just that. Necromancy is approached as a science rather than anything finalized. If this does end up being derived from the Institute, then a moderate to severe connection to i'Xiia is probably appropriate and/or necessary.

    Expansionists very much arise out of the Midnight Legion(and should probably just take the name). They are the Iron Machine, with organization reflecting that. Very militaristic in style in all matters, not only military. The sort that marches lockstep across the fields, bringing Taint behind them. Includes preachers deriving largely from Nihilist dogma. Urchins welcome on the assumption that they'll follow orders. Inherits nosfydra's aesthetics along with the Cacophony's wrack and ruin and, at some level, the ur'Guard's Urlach-worship. Just for funsies we can throw in a geochemancer engineering corps, too. Also inherits some of the factories. Necromancy is an art originally perfected by Urlach and while an individual should work to reach their own individual mastery, that mastery cannot be seen as any sort of change in necromancy as a whole.
  • ZarialleZarialle Member Posts: 97 Adept
    I'll be a dumb newbie for a minute and ask what the Balach Institute is/was?  :-S
    Zarialle's first dance:
    Trader Bob leads Zarialle through the dancers to the dance floor and brings her all the way to its heart.
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 395 Virtuoso
    I should reaaaally publish my book on this already. So.

    The Balach Institute of Magic and Science was a Balach-based research center funded primarily by the Celestine Empire but owned and run by an extension of House i'Xiia. Notable things accomplished at the Institute include: Project Touchstone, which was an attempt to modify mortals so that they could exist in Aetherspace and resulted in the creation of the naga; Project Outreach(the Arysian Isles were also involved in this, of course), which created the Gorgogs; and Project Soulforge. You probably know about that one. Soulforge of course accidentally awakened Muud, reducing the Institute itself into ruins and driving all the mugwumps nearby absolutely insane to the point where they were sent to the i'Xiia Asylum for keeping. What with the whole 'destroyed' thing, the Institute was naturally uninvolved with Project Cosmic Hope, although it's entirely likely that some of the thinktank was transferred.

    The Institute is /also/ notable because during Project Soulforge it housed the first instance of modern necromancy in the sense of using excorable energy to modify life forms. They wouldn't have called it that, of course, because the scientists a: didn't know what excorable energy was and b: didn't know that they were leeching off Muud's energies for their work.
    (note that the above is Debatable)
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    Balach institute, yes please. Can transfer Alakar and some minions from Asylum if need be.
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    oh my god zarialle i literally showed it to you the other day
    image
  • OtheroOthero Member Posts: 832 Virtuoso
    The Balach institute as a basis for inspiration I would love to see. The actual Balach institute feels a little hollow One of the new orgs being focused on the same sort of transformation and evolution of the self is 100% Magnagora though. I think my aversion to it is mostly because these are supposed to be brand new factions, it would be more interesting to have them either be based on newly found history or have them just be new. In Magnagora it would make sense for them to be new institutions, evolutions of the old guilds.
  • HallenHallen Member Posts: 79 Capable
    edited February 2016
    With ideas like these, you people are going to get me to actually play Hallen again.
  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 992 Mythical
    As a former Mag, I would like to put forward:

    The Balach Institute - Obviously a winner conceptually, even if it would be odd to claim lineage from that particular organization. Their ethics may be dubious, but their results are top notch. Necromancy, Geomancy, Engineering, Vivisection!

    The Voivodery - The Nobility. Styled after the liberum veto-era Polish Sejm, with squabbling nobles who quietly detest one another, but acknowledge the need to cooperate and present a united front against the rabble.

    The Ninth House - Brought back out of history as a clandestine guild of lowborn assassins-cum-defenders of the underclass. Easy illithoid tie-in. Friends in low places, a dagger behind every back and poison in every cup!

    That said, these names probably aren't usable directly. Institute is already taken, Vioivodery is probably too foreign and
  • XarconXarcon Member Posts: 63 Capable
    I've always imagined the future of Magnagora to be internally divided. The office of the Warlord dismantled, the Tower of Domination destroyed and power split into 3 different groups vying for certain 'powered structure' that offers each of them a certain benefit or access to privileges. Quests, gold, etc all help to shift it from one side to the other. Mags hate each other so why not give them a playing field to vent out all the steam.
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    Sounds familiar...
    image
  • OtheroOthero Member Posts: 832 Virtuoso
    edited February 2016
    Xarcon said:
    I've always imagined the future of Magnagora to be internally divided. The office of the Warlord dismantled, the Tower of Domination destroyed and power split into 3 different groups vying for certain 'powered structure' that offers each of them a certain benefit or access to privileges. Quests, gold, etc all help to shift it from one side to the other. Mags hate each other so why not give them a playing field to vent out all the steam.
    Also a cool idea but sounds like it would be mechanically tough to balance and would probably promote too much infighting. Which is a shame because the basic idea is very cool. 
  • XarconXarcon Member Posts: 63 Capable
    Othero said:
    Xarcon said:
    I've always imagined the future of Magnagora to be internally divided. The office of the Warlord dismantled, the Tower of Domination destroyed and power split into 3 different groups vying for certain 'powered structure' that offers each of them a certain benefit or access to privileges. Quests, gold, etc all help to shift it from one side to the other. Mags hate each other so why not give them a playing field to vent out all the steam.
    Also a cool idea but sounds like it would be mechanically tough to balance and would probably promote too much infighting. Which is a shame because the basic idea is very cool. 
    I should have been a bit more specific but I was referring to hate as in the IC version of it. I still remember people talking highly of Fain when with Hate being one of his tenets got players to compete against each other. No matter what happens it will be hard to control people's feelings out of the game. There was a time where players didn't take things personally and the City thrived.

    What I would like to see happen is making Magnagora a dangerous place to the point where novices that are planning to pick a city get a -warning- about the dangers of joining the organization. It being not for the faint of heart.

    Please allow me a bit of space for some creative nonsense...

    An empowered Glomdoring finds a way to breach the southern wall of Magnagora and the forest makes a beeline straight for the Megalith. They perform a ritual/event/something where the Megalith is split in order for them to begin absorbing the energy. Unfortunately, this doesn't go as plan and the energy begins to escape causing massive destruction throughout. The western half of the city goes under into the Sea of Despair, the forest area that has taken over the southern part begins to mutate out of control and the Necromentate gets freed and begins to go crazy in the undercity.

    Viktor comes down from Earth and offers a solution to repair the Megalith using technology from his timeline. It didn't work then but it might work now. Meanwhile, Celest is taking advantage of the underwater portion and begins to assail Mag with kelpies and merians, elves in the southern portion become rabid and strike out at anything, and the Necromentate becomes a supermob and steamrolls anyone foolish to enter the area. Viktor plans work and the destruction of the rest of the City stops. Now, Mag has to rise from the ashes.

    The Iron Council gets transformed into the Broken Council made up of the 3 different groups. The guildhalls are all destroyed and new ones are constructed within protective areas because the streets of Mag are filled with terrors and aggressive creatures. The western portion is now home to fierce, twisted merians; the southern portion are made up of rabid elves who have been transformed by the introduction of tech from Viktor's time and are now more machine; the undercity is home to a very hungry and mobile Necromentate. Maybe, some exiled kepherans worship it and have taught it to integrated itself into some hive mind entity.

    What I want to say with all of this is make the new Magnagora dangerous... so dangerous that players need to work together to keep the City from falling into madness and ruin or to compete for access to the different sources/privs...

    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to write down my nonsense. I kept daydreaming about it so I needed to throw it somewhere. I know that it will be mechanically tough to make this kind of radical change but if my words lead someone to think of something better than I think it was worthwhile to say it. I know it doesn't have any historical background like what was previously talked about it but maybe making the City more 3D in nature and giving it an organic feel (organic in the sense of not being specific with roles) will widen the canvas for the admin and volunteers to play upon different ideas and themes.

    I don't play Lusternia anymore but I do want to see it evolve into something that will get people to come back and have fun again in.
  • ArimisiaArimisia Member Posts: 421 Expert
    Xarcon said:
    Othero said:
    Xarcon said:
    I've always imagined the future of Magnagora to be internally divided. The office of the Warlord dismantled, the Tower of Domination destroyed and power split into 3 different groups vying for certain 'powered structure' that offers each of them a certain benefit or access to privileges. Quests, gold, etc all help to shift it from one side to the other. Mags hate each other so why not give them a playing field to vent out all the steam.
    Also a cool idea but sounds like it would be mechanically tough to balance and would probably promote too much infighting. Which is a shame because the basic idea is very cool. 
    I should have been a bit more specific but I was referring to hate as in the IC version of it. I still remember people talking highly of Fain when with Hate being one of his tenets got players to compete against each other. No matter what happens it will be hard to control people's feelings out of the game. There was a time where players didn't take things personally and the City thrived.

    What I would like to see happen is making Magnagora a dangerous place to the point where novices that are planning to pick a city get a -warning- about the dangers of joining the organization. It being not for the faint of heart.

    Please allow me a bit of space for some creative nonsense...

    An empowered Glomdoring finds a way to breach the southern wall of Magnagora and the forest makes a beeline straight for the Megalith. They perform a ritual/event/something where the Megalith is split in order for them to begin absorbing the energy. Unfortunately, this doesn't go as plan and the energy begins to escape causing massive destruction throughout. The western half of the city goes under into the Sea of Despair, the forest area that has taken over the southern part begins to mutate out of control and the Necromentate gets freed and begins to go crazy in the undercity.

    Viktor comes down from Earth and offers a solution to repair the Megalith using technology from his timeline. It didn't work then but it might work now. Meanwhile, Celest is taking advantage of the underwater portion and begins to assail Mag with kelpies and merians, elves in the southern portion become rabid and strike out at anything, and the Necromentate becomes a supermob and steamrolls anyone foolish to enter the area. Viktor plans work and the destruction of the rest of the City stops. Now, Mag has to rise from the ashes.

    The Iron Council gets transformed into the Broken Council made up of the 3 different groups. The guildhalls are all destroyed and new ones are constructed within protective areas because the streets of Mag are filled with terrors and aggressive creatures. The western portion is now home to fierce, twisted merians; the southern portion are made up of rabid elves who have been transformed by the introduction of tech from Viktor's time and are now more machine; the undercity is home to a very hungry and mobile Necromentate. Maybe, some exiled kepherans worship it and have taught it to integrated itself into some hive mind entity.

    What I want to say with all of this is make the new Magnagora dangerous... so dangerous that players need to work together to keep the City from falling into madness and ruin or to compete for access to the different sources/privs...

    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to write down my nonsense. I kept daydreaming about it so I needed to throw it somewhere. I know that it will be mechanically tough to make this kind of radical change but if my words lead someone to think of something better than I think it was worthwhile to say it. I know it doesn't have any historical background like what was previously talked about it but maybe making the City more 3D in nature and giving it an organic feel (organic in the sense of not being specific with roles) will widen the canvas for the admin and volunteers to play upon different ideas and themes.

    I don't play Lusternia anymore but I do want to see it evolve into something that will get people to come back and have fun again in.
    good idea but still would not explain why the guilds suddenly cease to be. The Geomancers and Ur'Guard both existed pre-taint which was a huge event though Geo's were hugely changed and the ur'Guard were able to pickup a few nifty things. the Nihilist were changed because the fates no longer existed on the plane they looked over/researched/whatever have you. Their fully focus went onto the changed Emanations, now the Demon Lords, the whole plane was changed, Nil, - Nihlists - made sense.

    With the whole Necromentate situation, if it becomes a subermob, dangerous and killing people so on, who would you expect for our city to complete its power quest then as well? I do not believe the city itself was on the spectrum of change but the guilds. Sure some things can probably be changed but there will be a limit and changing our power quest may hit that.
    The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."

    image
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    Its power quest certainly wouldn't exist if it wasn't under control conisdering the point is it for to get under control.
    image
  • DelphasDelphas Member Posts: 488 Virtuoso
    edited March 2016
    There may be two schools of thought here, and I'm curious what others are thinking along the two lines.  One is to propose a guild for a particular style(s) of play/player ,and the other is to go as Big Tent as possible for each.  They each have their advantages.


    In the case of the former, one asserts they will be associating with like-minded individuals.  The fighters would no longer be saddled with carebears, for example.  This seems like an excellent idea on the whole, but there is a problem in identifying exactly what sort of player/style we are talking about.  Typically we understand our own best, but like much of the human psyche the concepts are difficult to put into words.

    Bartle originally proposed four types of players (http://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm).  He has since (ca 2000) expanded this to eight types (http://www.amazon.com/Designing-Virtual-Worlds-Richard-Bartle/dp/0131018167/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1457104692&sr=1-1&keywords=designing+virtual+worlds).  Sadly there appears to be no empirical evidence for his proposed types.  Instead Nick Yee has been able to identify five facets (http://www.nickyee.com/facets/facets.PDF).  It should be noted that since we're speaking of human beings then this is not a zero-sum game.  Having high tendencies towards one facet does not mean one won't have high tendencies towards another; scores between the five facets are completely orthogonal.  He has since expanded his work (http://www.nickyee.com/pubs/Yee - MMORPG Demographics 2006.pdf), but the premise remains mostly the same.

    I would rely on Yee's work when trying to define a guild based on player- or play-style given the definitions are sound and eminently applicable to the enterprise at hand.  While we have much love for Bartle, his model is false.  There is one problem, but it could be ignored.  There are five facets identified, four of which would be considered "desirable" or "positive" to Lusternia, but currently three guilds are proposed for the condensation.  Either an entire cohort of players will be left out (patently told they are not welcome), or multiple guilds will be competing for their enrollment, or (expected) both at the same time.  Assume Facets A, B, C, and D are desired.  It is entirely possible that type A is not at all represented, and the remaining three types are recruited by all three guilds.  This is further hampered by the fact that while "Escapism" is considered harmful (do not cater to this), Lusternia's own rules require "Immersion" as a fundamental given; all organizations and individuals must support this at all times.  This drops us down to just three identifiable facets for the three guilds, which exacerbates the above issues of leaving one group out, or too many competing over another group.

    I also have my doubts one's goal would actually be realized even if the above hazard were avoided.  One could very well propose a guild based on a particular style of play, or personality of player.  One could champion the idea and successfully lobby for its implementation.  I suspect the majority of players are going to follow OOC friends first and family ties second.  I think the players who join a guild based on "play style" or "ambiance" will be in the minority.  This means your vision quite thwarted since it is an impossibility that all of your character's family or your OOC friends happen to be of identical mind as you.


    The other option, going Big Tent and accepting players of all types and just stating some sort of "mood" or "theme", is pretty much the status quo.  In any guild right now we have fighters and RP'ers (sometimes the same people) together at once, unified under a common "mood" or "theme".  The guilds don't particularly care what your style is (so long as it isn't "deliberately playing against the fiction") and try to accommodate all comers.  This is a familiar process, and so would be the easiest transition.  No matter what one's interests, one would feel welcome and at home no matter which guild one joined.  This brings with it some problems.

    Sadly going too broad means there is nothing particularly unique about any given guild.  They are all the same.  They might as well not even have names if that is the case.  It also exacerbates the issues of enrollment based on one's family and OOC ties.  I do not think this is entirely the way to go either.  It would be the easiest way to condense the guilds, but since it lacks any sort of character then it would be somewhat tricky to come up with an in-world fiction explaining it.


    There may be other avenues here.  Since the various guilds proposed would need to integrate within the world, they would need an in-world fiction to cover their formation, their modes/culture, and why/how they replaced the current guilds.  These would need to be based on existing lore on one hand, and invent/expand lore on the other.  Might one combine a facet or two with a mood or theme, all handily explained by some bit of history? I'm not sure if that solves anything or if it just covers up the failings in the verbiage of the lore, but sadly I'm out of ideas here.  The numerous guilds have been in place for a long time (even the newest guild is a few years old), so I am not sure if I could propose a replacement without just recasting an existing guild, but let me see if I can try merging the two modes.

    The Unholy Engine
    The Unholy Engine is a secretive society of priests and arcanists devoted to a better understanding of, and service under, both the Demon Lords of Nil and the Tainted Earth Lords.  Believing true perfection can only come from adopting Their powers, and emulating Their ideals, they strive to conduct philosophical and scientific inquiry towards these ends.  Within the fetid halls of the Unholy Engine, deranged Geomancers learn newfound insights into the spheres of the Cabala alongside Nihilists, who also practice High Magic, who shape and warp the very fabric of reality through devious practices of the Cosmic Secrets of Nihilism with the meditative ur'Guard, known for invoking great powers through innovative Dark Rituals of Necromancy.
    Founded as result of The Calamity (whatever that was) which bespoiled the Basin and sealed shut their individual guildhalls, The Unholy Engine came together.  Devoted to never permitting the hated Light corrupt the Dreaming again, and dedicated to this purpose by strengthening the land against it via the power of the blessed Taint, Nihilists and Geomancers united to combat the terror unleashed by New Celest.  It was only when notable warriors of the ur'Guard join the fellowship was the proper ritual to bring conclusion derived and enacted.  Henceforth the Unholy Engine was formed as a proper guild.


    Ok, I think I've managed to advertise the sort of player I want (grief/manipulation + immersionrelationship), the sort of archetypes that would synergize (elementalism->highmagic->rituals->knighthood), but didn't close any doors against any player (your play-style is right, for all values of "your").  Some drivel about in-world fiction was also attempted, specifically in regard to preserving the ancient traditions and lore of the three mentioned archetypes (Nihilists, Geomancers, ur'Guard).

    Was this anything at all which @Zvoltz wanted?

    [Edit: meant "relationship", not "immersion"]
    </RANT>
  • TynghallTynghall Member Posts: 102 Adept
    The Contriver's Assembly 
    Dedicated primarily to engineering and scientific concerns, with a heavy slant towards maintenance of the "engine." A real hands-on and logical approach to the furthering of the Taint, but a lot of their work is behind closed curtains. Wouldn't want to give away trade secrets, would you? Often called upon for handling interlopers, unwanteds, enemy spies, and as a general "enforcer."

    The Crimson Multitude
    Both militaristic and theological, the home of sacrifices, sermons and bloodshed. Consider these your foaming-at-the-mouth zealots. This could easily take the form of a hot-head warrior with a penchant for slaughter, a guardian who orchestrates a bound and gagged crowd to whom to deliver a sermon, or a level-headed mage who calculates every detail to wreak the most carnage. So long as the Earthen Lords are able to soak in blood, and the Demon Lords are receiving regular sacrifices, all is well. My body for the Engine, my soul for the Lords and Lady.



    I dunno about a third. I'll get back to you.

    come2mag
  • QistrelQistrel the hemisemidemifink Member Posts: 1,717 Transcendent
    I want a Cult Mechanicus. I just want to worship the Omnissiah.

  • KrackenorKrackenor Member Posts: 594 Gifted
    That's easy though. All you have to do is say a prayer while performing percussive maintenance on one of the lamposts.
  • HaghanHaghan Member Posts: 30 Capable
    Well just chiming in and I'm an outsider, but if you are going for roleplay separation I'd suggest

    A) "The true power of Magnagora is in the teaching of the Demon Lords"   (Style: Demonic)
    B)"The true power of Magnagora is in our ancient past (including deathcults and old geomancers) (Style: Ancient, Clasical, Deathcultish)
    C)"The true power of Magnagora is our unstoppable progress" (Style: Modern, mechanical, steampunk)

    All roleplay styles could fit in
     Aggressive:  An unholy scourge of the Demon Lords, an ancient death knight, A reaper set to clear the trash of the world for newer, better 'progress'
     Artistic:     Elegant (or horrifying) exemplars of the demon lords; Classical death-cult trappings, or steampunkish machinery and devices

    Even the concept of aristocracy could survive with different flavors:  A sign of the Demon Lord's favor; a rich lineage from ancient times, or a form of eugenics, proof of 'progress'

    Any concept could be fit anywhere. Priests and holy positions wouldn't have to be based on powers. A Nihilist could be a spiritual adviser and necromancer favoring the old ways, or a necromantic scientist creating infernal machines. Ninjakari could be avatars of the DL's wrath, assassins used to manipulate the old order, or   allies of Illith working to bring soulless power into the Engine of Progress

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