Faction Names and Initial Concepts

MysraiMysrai Posts: 94 Divine
edited February 2016 in Gaudiguch Guild Reformation
Polling has come in for naming and initial concepts around the second of Gaudiguch’s three proposed faction orientations.

Disclaimer: These are the preliminary discussion results and notes for three factions we’re giving a working title. Nothing has been set in stone - this outline is primarily for discussion and feedback. As an example of how WIP this is, Faction One (TNtI) came in at a massive tie between three different faction names, so we’ll be rerunning that. Faction Three was too close to call, and the naming of it is still under discussion.

We may have been drinking a lot during this collaborative, consensus-building exercise. 


Totally Not the Illuminati (title TBD)

Is it enlightenment, or is it too much cactus weed? Why do they smile so widely? What about the rumours that they date back to far, far before the City of Gaudiguch was even founded? Totally Not the Illuminati, these guys are all about enlightenment, study of the secrets of life, and contemplation of the Seven Sacred Pyres? Rumour has it that these mystics see much - but if they do, they don't speak of it, except in mysterious koans, and in the shadows of the Flame.


The Goon Squad

These guys SAY they're about the people, but it's hard to tell during the riot whether they're busting heads for or against the Man. Maybe they’re just burning down that dude’s house because they’re drunk and wanna party. Either way, there's a lot of citizens willing to rally around setting things on fire - but there’s also plenty willing to work together for the common good. Need to insist on better wages? Need to collect on that loan? In serious need of a good time? You may want to call the Goon Squad. 


The Merry Pranksters 

In their hand is the red cup of radical self-expression. The Pranksters are all about giving back to the City - whether it be through festivals, furious battle, or kindling flaming art in an echo and celebration of the Eternal Flame. These socialites and mavens of the masses seek to unite the factions of the City that shelters their free spirits. With them rest the age-old traditions of fire-dancing, flesh-dancing, and patronage of the arts. Are they drunk a lot? Yes, some of them, because there's no room for inhibitions on the stage or on the battlefield. 
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Comments

  • SteingrimSteingrim Posts: 815 Fabled
    One of the goals here is to try to have at least one home for every type of player. To me, this is less of a 'I don't personally like x' and more of 'does any of these appeal to you and if not, why not?' Especially useful. I would think, would be comments along the lines of 'I think my best fix is y, but I'm concerned it wouldn't allow me to x'. Also useful would be anyone explaining their current RP and why they think they wouldn't be able to fit it into one of the faction concepts.

    As for the descriptions, they are indeed a bit fuzzy on some details, that's because part of the fleshing out (pun not intended) will be what you all contribute.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark AustraliaPosts: 3,351 Transcendent
    I lol'd for real when I read this. I love that the goon squad is an actual thing. I haven't played in Gaudi for a long long time but it really strikes me as very Gaudi, while still being very fresh. Love it.
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  • SteingrimSteingrim Posts: 815 Fabled
    Celina said:
    My one concern so far is the Merry Prankster title has little correlation to its description. Goon Squad is ambiguous to a degree, and can clarify through the description, but a merry prankster is a specific description, and then the overall description goes on to describe gift giving, festivals, etc. I feel like the title is going to attract jester types, which doesn't work so well in Achaea, and not what the guild is describing. Just my two cents.
    I don't know. Merry Prankster to me describes more an attitude re: Loki Crow (relax Ausi Crow), Coyote, even deadpool). It can easily be the style one does things in rather than what they actually do. I also don't see how gift giving and festivals doesn't fit.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Posts: 4,254 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Well, because prankster has a very specific definition meaning "one who pranks," so with this title we are really implying the guild's focus is pranks and the people that enjoy them. We're talking about wanting titles that can incorporate a variety of people, but this title really implies you have to like pranks and jokes. By definition, it's a person who enjoys a specific thing, and that specific thing has no inherent correlation between festivals and gift giving and all the other cool stuff being described. 

    Ultimately we can personally view it however we like, but the word has a specific definition, and it's that definition is what new players will recognize immediately. So that's the question for me, is that the tone we want to set for the people it will attract, and more importantly, for the people that it will not attract because we're hoping they understand an implied attitude that's not really part of the word's definition, but in reality they think we're clowns.

    I don't think it's bad, per say (though I'm not crazy about it in general), but I don't know if it'll do the guild justice in terms of giving at least a vague representation of what the guild is about.


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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Posts: 5,464 Transcendent
    Replace pranksters with gleemen? Basically wandering itinerants with a wide range of skills (often related to some kind of performance, including sleight-of-hand and all the fun things that can be done with that, including "Oh hey! Look at that dagger that just sprouted out of your face!"). I personally read prankster with the broader interpretation presented above as a counterargument, but I can see where Celina is coming from. There are other options that can be good, too (as noted by the close referendum).

    /may have been reading the recently released WoT encyclopedia.
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  • StratasStratas Posts: 335 Fabled
    The Pranksters name came about a bit before the concept solidified into what Mysrai wrote up (as much as anything is solidified. We're all still just spitballing here). I think the name is good, if a bit "Totally Not the Minstrels", and I think the concept is good, and I think they just don't work together. But to reiterate, the name referendum was too close to call, so we're going again.
    The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!
  • IslunaIsluna Posts: 225 Adept
    Merry Pranksters-

    Honestly I first took it as a twist on Robin Hood's Merry men.

    But Celine makes a good point.

     



    Currently Playing in: The doctors office. One more needle and I might just lose it again.
  • TalanTalan Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    The Merry Pranksters is a direct borrow from the real group depicted in Tom Wolfe's The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, which is a bit of a Who's Who and What's What in counterculture during the mid-late sixties. They (and this book) are noted for bridging the gap between the Beatniks and the Hippies, and in that regard it fits Gaudiguch extremely well, though not perfectly.

    Of course for those who don't immediately recognize the reference, it just sounds like we're a bunch of jesters, which doesn't get the point across at all. We'll see if the name sticks.

    However I'm more curious to hear what people think about the substance we're developing here... Does what we're going for come across? Do any of these pique your interests? Why? Is anything missing that you would have expected to see?
    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Posts: 5,464 Transcendent
    What you are going for definitely comes across. It seems to be very fitting for Gaudiguch. I am one of those weirdos who has never actually done the party culture / alcohol thing at all so it has no resonation personally, but I am (I believe, at least) a bit of an oddity in that respect. From an outsider's perspective, it seems like you have captured the feel of Gaudiguch and are doing a good job at giving people a wide array of options for how to express / pursue it.
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  • LothringenLothringen Posts: 257 Fabled
    Good work, team!
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  • IslunaIsluna Posts: 225 Adept
    edited February 2016
    If the name doesn't stand out, your not really going to get people to see what it is all about. You hear: don't judge a book by it's cover- We all do it, all the time.

    Poor example:
    There was a book sitting on the table here at my work. I walked by it, it was a paper back with a black cover. There was a black and white picture of a face, and the title lettering was bright, blood red. -If I find it again I will get a pic and post it how I seen it.

    I thought wow- What resident is reading a horror book? I mean the youngest person here is maybe 87-  we have a pretty 'old' crowd here.

    The title was "God sometimes has the face of a child'. Is it a horror novel- some cheap knock-of that will disappoint? Is it really some crappy attempt at a pamphlet bomb filled with stories about how you the sinner is going to die a terrible painful death - Retail workers might have seen some of these 'hidden' in their stores- Or is it a really good heart felt story that just happens to look like something else?

    End Poor Example.

    We don't really get the option of visual- So a name needs to stand out. The wording selection has to draw attention- Illuminati drew attention cause of well all the stuff around it in RL.

    And no, sorry to say, I am not young- But would have never recognized the reference personally. Am now interested into looking into now.

    Edit for the millionth time!

    Substance- Fitting. Really from my limited- I don't care- do what you want- just leave me alone type RP- I think that what is shown here, fits Gaudiguch very much.

    Currently Playing in: The doctors office. One more needle and I might just lose it again.
  • MysraiMysrai Posts: 94 Divine
    edited February 2016
    Electric Kool-Aid test was on my nightstand literally a week before we began opening faction discussion to players, so it ended up as one of the brainstormed and spitballed ideas. Merry Pranksters has some specific historical context I like - but it does imply a lot of things to those who aren't alt-culture nerds. With that in mind, the referendum around the faction three title was extremely close (and also loaded with choices - twelve, to be precise), so we'll be re-running it to see which ideas float to the top. 

    Other names that came out of the pile: 

    • the Riot
    • Flames of Revelry
    • the Riotous Revellers
    • the Society of Ruby Revellers
    • the Revellers
    • the Madcaps
    • the Flametouched
    Faction title nominations ARE open to suggestions from beyond the clan. Feel free to message me in forum or in game.
  • RanahRanah Posts: 59 Capable
    edited February 2016
    I'm a bit confused.

    Is this a poll for one faction, or are these samples for all three? They all sound very different.

    I like the concept of Goon Squad the most, but not the name. It has a kind of Peaky Blinders feel which is something that could be really interesting (IF it wasn't made into an internal gang terrorizing Gaudiguch but Gaudiguch was its base and its focus was outside of the streets). That's something that seems to be missing from these, is how they interact with the outside world - things that give them action and purpose and direction in the larger scheme of things. --edit-- Though I think its name needs work. I'd personally take more inspiration from the names of other gangs, be it in Fallout or otherwise. Colloquially it can be the Goon Squad, but that doesn't sound very impressive or cool on its own, just 'hur they're thugs'. 

    --edit-- To expand: I have no real idea what any of these are about. They don't really communicate any goals or values or purposes beyond some niche flavour that's pretty much the exact same as what's already around. Which is neither good nor bad, it just doesn't give a sense of anything that's different or really looking forward. It just feels like conceptually a step needs to be taken back and refined a bit more before arguing over the wrapping paper.

    If I wanted to be a Prankster I'd have joined jesters in Achaea. Otherwise they feel kind of knee-jerk, and one of the issues I've at least had with Gaudi so far is things just kind of sit on this shallow surface of 'yay drugs and booze' and it ends there. 


  • TalanTalan Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    The list in Mysrai's post above includes some that are under consideration besides "The Merry Pranksters."

    In terms of the Bartle-archetypes, this one is meant to appeal to the socializers. In the context of Gaudiguch it incorporates the social mavens (those interested in fostering community throughout the entire org), the bards and artists (those interested in self-expression, sharing their talents with the community at large), and the partiers who appreciate this atmosphere in an inclusive community -- but is not limited to that. I expect that this will also appeal to a certain type of achiever-archetype player, the one that emphasizes communication and direct ties to the community. This faction is broadly, "the masses," or at least the idealized version of them. It's the Voice of the People with clearer vehicles for expression. I think all the names in the list make sense in this context.

    While we are going for a situation where all the streams of lore from all the current guilds will be found to some degree in all of these factions, this one is envisioned as being a bit heavier on the Gullagumbah teachings coupled with the symbolism to be found in the Pyres as a means of expression.

    What we've presented above are rough sketches - teasers. These are not finish and complete ideas that we're presenting to new players. People wanted a chance and a place to give their own opinions and feedback, and this is a framework for that.

    That being said, the feedback and critiques are more than welcome, as they help us understand where the gaps are between what we have in mind, and what we're managing to express.

    *Disclaimer* The above is based on my personal understanding of the direction this faction is heading and should not be taken as decisions firmly made.
    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    I love Goon squad personally - I'm going to steal phrases and the like from @Stratas because he did a really good job writing it out, but I'm not in a position to log in and really put out there what he wrote down already.

    The Goon squad is for the people of Gaudiguch - They aren't really your military branch, but they're the guys who fight for the people that can't fight for themselves. Goon squad members are there to make sure people can not only live their lives, but live them the way they want. They don't really follow order or answer to the leadership of Gaudiguch because their only interest is the people. They know that on one hand, you need to knock some heads in to protect them, but on the other you need someone to inspire and motivate the people as well. It takes carefully planned execution of riots that seem like chaos and fun to not actually become complete chaos. There is a continual call for idealists, crafters and designers to continue to build the culture and prevent the stagnation, educate the masses and further their own lives by means of enrichment, in whatever shape that takes. 

    The Goon squad name itself is really just a reclamation of power. Obviously Goon has negative connotations as just big dumb kneecap breakers - but the Squad has owned that term and showing that sometimes you may need to break kneecaps, but other times, splint it. Sometimes it's starting the fire, and other times it's putting it out. Basically it's spitting in the face of those that try to hurt the people we're protecting (the people of Gaudiguch) and saying that 'we don't care what you think of us, we're still here and we're winning'

    Again - most the credit is to @Stratas - he put it in words better than I could have, though I only paraphrased most of it.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Posts: 4,254 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Incidentally, I love that the name comes across as "hurrrr we're thugs." I like that it's layered, it's exactly how I play my character. I'm bitchy, crass, blunt, and violent and it keeps people out of my business, then I swoop in with the Voice Of Reason and throw them off.  The title is somewhat vague, indicates a gang/syndicate style organization that shows the face it wants to show. 

    They're thugs, they're dangerous, and you stay out of their way if for no other reason than they will show up in an alley and . Internally, they aren't just brutes. They put on a show because it keeps people distracted and fearful, and underneath that is a legitimate organization that knows exactly what it's doing and how to play its game. 

    It's a gang that doesn't want to be known as deep or striving for a higher purpose, they don't want to be known as the politically savvy and affiliated. Their game is not letting you on to their game. 

    Or that's me getting carried away in my head, but the idea is pretty exciting to me. 
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  • TalanTalan Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Ranah said:
    That's something that seems to be missing from these, is how they interact with the outside world - things that give them action and purpose and direction in the larger scheme of things.
    I'm not entirely sure how to address this, as the idea of guilds/factions in my mind has rarely been to directly impact the outside world as singular entities. Rather, they are components of an org's overall mission. I'm actually having trouble thinking of any guilds that have goals like this. (I'm sure someone can tell me I'm wrong here, as well.) Maybe the Paladins in the sense of broader Peacekeeping, or the druids in the sense of spreading their respective forests, but even these are part of the bigger whole. Glomdoring's goal is to spread the Wyrd, and while the Blacktalon may be responsible for spreading the physical Wyrd, the Wyrd is also a conceptual thing that extends beyond ickytrees.

    Gaudiguch's public mission statement is Freedom and Liberty, but that's thin, and it's deliberately thin. In an organization that is the once and future home of the Illuminati, there's more going on.

    But it kind of kills it if you say, "Guys, there's the sekrit sekrets okay, so take the flimsy and seek the substance WINK WINK."

    This is worth bringing up as it's a longstanding problem with Gaudiguch, and I think it is a problem with Gaudiguch a whole  - hopefully one that we can address in this process.

    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • IslunaIsluna Posts: 225 Adept
    I don't know I sort of thought gee Goon Squad ..... I know where all the ganking PKers are going to head. <--Just joking for those who aren't use to my sarcasm.

    I just want to say this here:

    It's really exciting to see this happen, and I hope there is at some point more then just a teaser offered that we can see what we are going to be logging into prior to it being implemented.

    It really sounds like for Gaudiguch we have a really good team trying to make the best happen.

    So thank you guys for really looking at this with fun, energy and trying to meet the needs of current and future players.


    And I mean it, I am going to look into this The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.




    Currently Playing in: The doctors office. One more needle and I might just lose it again.
  • RanahRanah Posts: 59 Capable
    @Talan - that's fair. I was looking for that depth in the guilds because it's missing in the city. The city's been pretty shallow so far, there's been a pretty big hole. Freedom and Liberty are nice coin words but without any actual application beyond "you can drink as much as you want and have as many orgies as you want" - which is all internal, and has no real direction - it remains just a really thin veneer. 

    If the city could sit down and hone that better, leaving the factions as just flavours in which to pursue that greater something, would be fine. But if both are missing it, there's a problem, at least for folk looking to be part of something epic and important. 
  • SylandraSylandra Professional Dogwife Posts: 3,887 Transcendent
    "The Merry Pranksters" is an amazing, amazing faction/sect/guild/whatever name. Kudos to team Gaudi.
    Fyler said:
    Sylandra has a very signature (and somewhat twisted) sense of humor
  • StratasStratas Posts: 335 Fabled
    There is mysticism in the city, but it's hard to find sometimes. A lot of the serious RP tends to be tied to orders, rather than guilds and org stuff, sadly. It's definitely something we're all wanting to address going forward.

    One of my goals in this is to make sure that every playstyle would have a reason to be in any faction. They're largely based on the Bartle types, yes, but it needs to be more than just TNI is for explorers, Goon Squad is killers, and Merry Pranksters is socializers. Why would a PKer join TNI? Why would a non-com join the Goon Squad? To me, this means giving each one a 'below the surface' reason for existence, and that means some more serious RP, not necessarily mystical but more in depth than "we party all the time". The Goon Squad stuff I thought up was in that vein - yeah, they are first and foremost warriors, but, as a wise man once said "it's not enough to bash in heads, you have to bash in minds." 

    I'm not sure if I can or should post my ideas for the Merry Pranksters and Goon Squad, but if I get the okay, I'll toss it up here and everyone can see what my thoughts are, at least.
    The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Posts: 4,254 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    I describe the Goon Squad as being a group that they can do things the easy way or the hard way, they just hope you pick the hard way.
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  • SylandraSylandra Professional Dogwife Posts: 3,887 Transcendent
    Freedom Squad.

    Goons of Liberty.

    The Goonies.
    Fyler said:
    Sylandra has a very signature (and somewhat twisted) sense of humor
  • ChirboChirbo Posts: 733 Fabled
    I really really love the Goon squad idea. 
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  • ChirboChirbo Posts: 733 Fabled
    (the Merry Pranksters should totally be the Merry Minstrels)
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  • HallenHallen Posts: 79 Capable
    Goon Squad is an awesome idea.
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