Faction Names and Initial Concepts

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Comments

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,670 Transcendent
    edited April 2
    I can appreciate the Goon Squad. Like many have said before, the spirit of the name is reinventing identity, and I especially like that paradigm of "not taking yourself too seriously", insomuch that every fantasy game has some cool, inspiring, or edgy name. The Goon Squad is anti-trope in that way; we're not the Grand Aerie of Hoity-Toity Self-important Hallifaxians, we're just the Goon Squad.

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  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Yes, but you can achieve this with a different name WITHOUT the internet connotations. You can still reach that goal. Goon Squad is not the only name that can hit that.
  • ShaddusShaddus His Imperial Altness Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,652 Transcendent
    goon
    ɡo͞on/
    noun
    informal
    1. 1.
      a silly, foolish, or eccentric person.
    2. 2.
      NORTH AMERICAN
      a bully or thug, especially one hired to terrorize or do away with opposition.
      "a squad of goons waving pistols"




      I mean..it seems to fit. 
    If I'm not good enough for Lusternia, then it is no longer good enough for me.
  • DanquikDanquik Member Posts: 146 Master
    Why are we having this discussion again anyways? I mean the best part of factions is nobody is making you join the ones you don't like the name of. Shouldn't this discussion have taken places 2 months ago when design objectives and names were being tossed around? Not at the theoretical 11th hour.

    If people think "oh em gee, that faction is for the greefers" then let them think that. If they join thinking they can be toxic players, they will have another thing coming, if they don't join cause of the name, we didn't want them in our faction anyways.
  • OrventaOrventa Member Posts: 583 Mythical
    No wakabi here, but simply because I like naming things: The Gadabouts? Gadabout Louts? The Pandemonium?


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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    Anyways, what is the internet connotation of "Goon Squad"? The only thing it brings to mind for me are the SA forums, wellspring of memery. Urban dictionary isn't helpful on this account, only bringing up the historical meaning of the term, which is exactly what the name is going for, I thought. 
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 968 Fabled
    Enyalida said:
    Anyways, what is the internet connotation of "Goon Squad"? The only thing it brings to mind for me are the SA forums, wellspring of memery. Urban dictionary isn't helpful on this account, only bringing up the historical meaning of the term, which is exactly what the name is going for, I thought. 
    Generally, a goon is basically a griefer. So Brean's worry (I assume, this is the main worry anyways) is that a newbie might see 'goon squad' and think that the game encourages griefing because of a whole guild named after it and not play the game.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,687 Mythical
    I mean, the goonsquad (goonswarm) is typically the guild known for being toxic across MMOs both in game and out.  Abuse, Trolling, Griefing, Scamming, etc. They're pretty much everything you don't want in your MMO.

    So like... it may be worth considering what the name has attached to it in the broader MMO world, cause it could look bad to those who know about it aside from the idea that it could be taken as permission.
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  • VeyilsVeyils Member Posts: 1,441 Mythical
    Goonsquad is the guild name from a bunch of folks from the Something Awful forums who play a bunch of MMOs. 

    Its got a reputation of being trolls but well high class trolls basically. They have a bad reputation in various games for trying to grief people out of the game or abusing dodgy mechanics.  Its a big group of people so its pretty varied. Most are just jokers/pranksters having a bit of fun but they have done stuff thats "gone too far" defiantly. 
  • SylandraSylandra Friend of Dog Member Posts: 4,296 Transcendent
    I have no horse in this race, but weren't the identity conversations regarding factions over quite awhile ago? They were for Hallifax, anyway. So I'm under the impression that factions as they stand are already being worked on. It may be too late-game to ask for substantial changes now.
    Fyler said:
    Sylandra has a very signature (and somewhat twisted) sense of humor
  • TirahTirah Member Posts: 398 Mythical
    When I hear goon squad, I am more thinking Pinkerton agents, mercenaries and the likes than random internet trolls. Which has its own associations, but closer to what the admins are going for, I think.
  • DanquikDanquik Member Posts: 146 Master
    Sylandra said:
    I have no horse in this race, but weren't the identity conversations regarding factions over quite awhile ago? They were for Hallifax, anyway. So I'm under the impression that factions as they stand are already being worked on. It may be too late-game to ask for substantial changes now.

    I thought so too.

    Also, I think if people get turned off by a faction name being greefers in another mmo, then they should get turned off by cannibalism, wearing sentient races as fur coats, and baby murder as a short list of things that might make players not want to play here and should go on the hypothetical list of changes.

    In other words, crybabies gonna cry, greefers gonna greef. Faction names aren't going to change either of those, and some of us like the name just fine.
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 968 Fabled
    Danquik said:
    Sylandra said:
    I have no horse in this race, but weren't the identity conversations regarding factions over quite awhile ago? They were for Hallifax, anyway. So I'm under the impression that factions as they stand are already being worked on. It may be too late-game to ask for substantial changes now.

    I thought so too.

    Also, I think if people get turned off by a faction name being greefers in another mmo, then they should get turned off by cannibalism, wearing sentient races as fur coats, and baby murder as a short list of things that might make players not want to play here and should go on the hypothetical list of changes.

    In other words, crybabies gonna cry, greefers gonna greef. Faction names aren't going to change either of those, and some of us like the name just fine.
    I think it is more of a worry that a newbie might think they are going to be attack, killed repeatedly right out of the portal and made the game unfun just because some 'goon' wants to ruin a newbie's day rather than things like cannibalism.

    While we all know most players are not going to grief a newbie just because they can, the newbie doesn't know this and can only base things off of pass mmo experience.
  • ReylariReylari Member Posts: 367 Fabled
    edited April 2
    Ayisdra said:
    the newbie doesn't know this and can only base things off of pass mmo experience.
    False. There are helpfiles that detail what the organisations are about. If you have a bad feeling about them from the name alone, the smart thing would be to make sure whether or not that feeling is correct or false, and read said file.
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  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    I am aware that goon squad derives from historical sources, however in the gaming environment the term has been used enough that it muddies the intention of the name. Google "Goon squad gaming" or "goon squad video games" and you'll see that. If a guild is having to defend their name before they have even been created, against people who understand what the stated goal of the name is, I think it shows that the name is controversial and perhaps not the best choice to be appealing to new players.

    As for 11th hour, the name has been debated in this very thread months ago.
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 968 Fabled
    Reylari said:
    Ayisdra said:
    the newbie doesn't know this and can only base things off of pass mmo experience.
    False. There are helpfiles that detail what the organisations are about.
    I would disagree to assume a true newbie would read all of the helpfiles about each org and guild before choosing. I would be willing to say they base things off site/nexus client quick summary/name/pictures from the site.
  • ReylariReylari Member Posts: 367 Fabled
    edited April 2
    Ayisdra said:
    I would disagree to assume a true newbie would read all of the helpfiles about each org and guild before choosing. I would be willing to say they base things off site/nexus client quick summary/name/pictures from the site.
    Guild information is shown on the site as well, the same as it's shown in game. Why would you assume they wouldn't? Generally new players DO read up on things that confuse/give them the wrong idea, Lusternia is not really any different. Failing that, they ask other people for input/clarification.

    And, the point Danquik was making was: If you're turned off simply by the name of a guild, chances are that's the least of your worries when it comes to other stuff you'll find in Lusternia.
    Email:        el.ni93@hotmail.com
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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 968 Fabled
    Reylari said:
    Ayisdra said:
    I would disagree to assume a true newbie would read all of the helpfiles about each org and guild before choosing. I would be willing to say they base things off site/nexus client quick summary/name/pictures from the site.
    Guild information is shown on the site as well, the same as it's shown in game. Why would you assume they wouldn't? Generally new players DO read up on things that confuse/give them the wrong idea, Lusternia is not really any different. Failing that, they ask other people for input/clarification.

    And, the point Danquik was making was: If you're turned off simply by the name of a guild, chances are that's the least of your worries when it comes to other stuff you'll find in Lusternia.
    Maybe I was just different back when I was a true newbie (back in 2007-8, I was 17yo, and Lusternia was my first mud ever). I based everything off the pictures on the site.

    My counter point was I could be fine with baby killing and wearing creatures as coats, but knowing that someone would ruin my day just because they want to, as the guild name implies to some being the main selling point, could make me not want to play the game. Names are the first thing they see and they make their first impressions solely based on that. I still get weird looks when I tell people about Lusternia just because of the 'lust' part.
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 968 Fabled
    Sylandra said:
    But what do you expect will happen at this point? Admin will swoop in and say, "We've been already working on this awhile but you're right let's change it"? The time for this conversation is over. It's a conversation that actually was already had, as you pointed out, and Good Squad made it through the deliberation process. It's not like this hasn't been discussed already in detail.

    Idk, I think it's beating a dead horse at this point. A decision was made.
    I'm not expecting anything (also I have no care about what gaudi or the factions are perceived as. Its overall themes were decided years ago when it was first release. There is nothing that can undo that.) I was just offering my own opinions on the matter that were bought up.
  • YomoiguYomoigu Member, Gods Posts: 248 Divine
    edited April 2
    The name 'Goon Squad' is, for now, locked in. If it becomes necessary to reevaluate the matter at a later date we will reopen the discussion on naming at that time.
  • DanquikDanquik Member Posts: 146 Master
    Shuyin said:
    Frankly, I don't understand how people are fine with Cthuhlu ripoffs, babykilling, RL cults/myths, or even Weekie Peedia but then the name Goon Squad apparently crosses that arbitrary RP line.


    It's like I said this very same thing! Get outta my head!
  • ShaddusShaddus His Imperial Altness Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,652 Transcendent
    All I've learned from this is that I shouldn't make an Illuminati alt, because according to the internet, they control everything including my own government, and they're watching me as we speak.
    If I'm not good enough for Lusternia, then it is no longer good enough for me.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,687 Mythical
    Shuyin said:
    Frankly, I don't understand how people are fine with Cthuhlu ripoffs, babykilling, RL cults/myths, or even Weekie Peedia but then the name Goon Squad apparently crosses that arbitrary RP line.

    The obvious reason with this is that Cthuhlu/the Illuminati are fantasy/conspiracy theories while the Goonsquad was a real group in the time Lusternia has been around, possibly one that is still active.  

    It's entirely possible, even likely, that there are people in Lusternia that have had to deal with harassment from them. They're well known enough that when I mentioned this discussion to gamer friends they knew immediately what the Goonsquad was, so we can also expect that new players will look at the name and form opinions about the game, the worst case scenario for us being that people decide not to play the game because it's there.

    People arguing to keep it may not have those associations, other people do. If the faction acts like the rl goonsquad then those associations will likely continue. *shrug*
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  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning ** Member Posts: 1,652 Transcendent
    I feel that Yomo's post was meant to put a gentle, but definite stop on the conversation for now. Frankly I don't care about the back and forth in the least, but I'd rather not keep thinking there's good information being posted in this thread every time a new post pops up. Maybe make another thread if people want to continue debating something that's really not up for debate anyways.

    Swinging back to concepts (the good stuff!), I'm really interested to see what people might have in mind for the new iteration of the Illuminati motif, and how it can be led to differ from what largely composes its roots.
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Does revelers have a help file yet? I'm still confused on the faction and its identity. Illuminators already has a much more fleshed-out role in revelry and culture (the example given was Burning Man's Lamplighters) - so what role does revelers serve and what are the org's goals and core concepts?
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning ** Member Posts: 1,652 Transcendent
    Per a clanhelp by oldMysrai, concerning the original Burning Revellers:

    Gaudiguch has a reputation of being a city of liquor-addled excess, a
    place where its citizens chase debauchery after debauchery in the name
    of keeping the endless party going. The Burning Revelers are the ones
    who fill the drinks, cash the chips, busk for every bawdy play, and
    sweep up the confetti in the rare moments of quiet. While many are
    performers, and many more are unabashed hedonists, the only requirement
    to join the Revelry is to wish to care for the city culturally, even if
    said culture is often the kind found growing on the wall of a public
    privy.

    True Enlightenment cannot be pursued if the mind is wracked with
    anxieties and the heart shackled with sorrow
    through making pleasure a thing that is accessible to any citizen, and
    thereby removing barriers to epiphany, the Revelers seek to encourage
    personal Freedom for any who would wish it. Revelry itself is perceived
    a state of Enlightenment. There are no rules save that the community of
    Gaudiguch be enriched by the factions joy, no guidelines save that it
    allow the individual to decide where their limits lie. Who needs
    stifling bureaucracy when love is the greatest law of all?

    Joy is the fire that pushes back the darkness of sorrow, and through joy
    many Revelers pursue the unity of thought and action. Dont think, just
    do is the motto of those who seek to cultivate their intuition into a
    force to be reckoned with. Some might claim this can only be reached
    through a life of asceticism, but when the world is full of so many
    wondrous things, the Revelers feel that its better to embrace it all and
    let ones Will be responsible for burning away the chaff. A city full of
    delights is no good if one seeks to rise above it all, and this faction
    argues that its far better to try new things and live in the moment,
    teaching the inner self through experience rather than abstinence.

    Anyone can join the party, but it is the Burning Revelers who keep the
    fires stoked and the laughs coming well after the rest of the Basin has
    gone to bed. Self-expression is just another part of the Revelers
    merriment: this can range from distributing pamphlets of humorous poetry
    to grand parades snaking through the pyramids. The right to be whoever
    one wishes to be, in whatever way they desire, is one of the main
    Freedoms of the city, and it is the factions duty to make sure theres
    room for anyone, no matter how radical their identity. Discovery of ones
    true self cant happen if everyone is neatly sorted into the same little
    boxes every time.

    The quieter side of the Burning Revelers, if it can be said to have such
    a thing, is one of affectionate caretaking: it is often the Revelers who
    sweeps up after one of the citys many riots, it is the Revelers who make
    sure everyone arrived home safe after the dance, and it is the Revelers
    who hold the citys metaphorical hair back after a hard night out.
    Community is the heart of their work. In addition to tending to
    Gaudiguchs precarious infrastructure, they also are keen
    counterpropagandists, seeking out foreign influences which could hurt
    the city and skewering them with vicious satire. The people deserve to
    know what the rest of the Basin is saying, but it never hurts to remind
    them how silly those words are in the long run.

    Through furious battle, Pyre-kissed art, or just making sure the keg
    never runs dry, the Revelers seek to keep the city full of raucous,
    bright-eyed life through whatever means necessary. Flesh-dancing at the
    Eternal Flame brings sensual wonder to the eyes of the people while the
    betrayal of an enemy at just the right time keeps the same people safe,
    and both are fine pursuits as far as this faction is concerned. Their
    bright colors reflect the citys own fires, after all: what better way to
    reflect that which gives light, heat, warm food, and dreadful burns than
    to become the Fire itself?

  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Thanks. 
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