Outstanding Overhaul Issues

IeptixIeptix Member, Moderator, Gods Posts: 819 Divine
edited February 2016 in Combat Overhaul
While the major combat overhaul mechanics are implemented and working, there are several issues and unfinished bits that still need addressing. Following is a list of tasks that we've identified as still needing work (either existing plans we haven't gotten to yet, or raised by the playerbase), as well as our current aim for addressing them. This is not exhaustive; there are a few things we are still working on internally, but this list represents the major incoming updates.

These are not 100% set in stone, but are indicative of how we are wanting to handle these issues. Feedback on these is welcome, bearing that in mind. Additionally, if there are other issues not raised here, feel free to bring them up, though depending on the specifics we may request you channel them through envoys instead.

---

Monks will be receiving updates to kata mechanics to bring them in line with new affliction and wounding mechanics, as well as hopefully addressing some other issues with the skill. We do not have any details on this right now, but I will be working with the monk envoys and various other people to put together a full proposal once other major issues are out of the way.

---

At present, focusing is used to cure specific sets of afflictions independent of the basic cures, and we have been planning on eliminating this mechanic from the start of the latest version of the Overhaul. In its place, we will be adding the ability to specify an affliction to cure when consuming one of the four basic cures, at some cost. The syntaxes and costs are as follows:

<consumption verb> <cure> FOCUS <affliction> - Prioritize the specified affliction, at the cost of doubled cure balance.
<consumption verb> <cure> FOCUS <affliction> POWER - Prioritize the specified affliction, at the cost 1 power.
<consumption verb> <cure> FOCUS <affliction> BEAST- Prioritize the specified affliction, requiring and using beast balance as well as beast ego equal to the current cost of beast curing.

The third syntax will replace the current beast curing powers, which will retired (and refunded where appropriate).

Additionally, the deadening affliction will be retired. As this affliction is only given in a very small number of cases, I will work with envoys to determine appropriate replacements, or simply deleting the instance of the affliction.

---

Fire and frost potions will have their curing effects removed, but maintain their defensive capabilities. Ablaze, burn levels, shivering, and freezing afflictions will be migrated to ice cures as part of the current knighthood special report.

---

Timewarp and tempinsanity are both currently cured by focus mind and herbs. As there are very, very few herb afflictions remaining (and most/all should be eliminated in time), there is no way to stack afflictions to prevent their curing. As such, they will be moved to one of the overhaul cures, likely steam, though I'll work with envoys to determine if this is the best place for them. Additionally, we'll adjust the efficacy of cures for these afflictions to compensate for the loss of focus mind.

---

Earwort and faeleaf are, similar to the above, stuck on herb balance without any way to stack afflictions around herb balance. We are planning on keeping the effects on these herbs, but likely modifying them to require and consume dust balance instead. Again, I'll be working with envoys to ensure this is workable.

---

At present, there are numerous entangle/writhe-cured abilities, including transfix, ropes, entangled, truss, impale, and a few others. Impale and transfix will remain as they are, while the various physical entanglements (ropes, etc.) will be combined into a single entangle affliction. All will be cured by writhing. Additionally, summer and tipheret will persist to allow instant curing of entanglement (but not transfix or impale).

---

Bearhug will be adjusted to be more on-par with its original introduction. The L4 perk version will gain the crushedchest affliction, while the L5 instakill will be changed to require < 20% health and the crushedchest affliction. Damage vs. players will be tweaked down slightly, as it was raised when initially modified due to issues with aeon stacking.

---

Cleanse is, at present, remaining as a cure, though we have plans to take a look at druidry at some point in the future and rework it to eliminate sap and allow the removal of cleanse.

We still plan on removing ectoplasm at some point in the future; once the current batch of issues is addressed, I will be sitting down with the Necromancy envoys to work out a way to do this cleanly.

---

Due to aeon now being cured by an asthma-blocked cure instead of an anorexia-blocked cure, there are several cases where the ability to apply the poison chansu concurrently with aeon attacks (e.g. from beasts). Because of the power of aeon, this is undesirable. As such, chansu will be changed to deal a different affliction; at this time, we are planning on moving it to anorexia instead.

Additionally, I am going to look into the possibility of having aeon be implemented as a command queue, instead of having input override the previous command and restart the command delay timer. This means it will be possible to send multiple commands in succession while under aeon, and have them be applied one at a time with the appropriate delay between each command. There are a few technical and design issues that need to be worked out here before I can commit to this, but it is something I will be investigating.

---

We will be looking into the possibility of moving summon resistance/rooting to the 10-level buff system used for damage resistance, regen, etc. Due to the way summon resistance stacking works internally, this may be difficult to make a clean transition to the discrete level system, but we'll do what we can.

---

Resilience will go away, with a lesson refund. Its damage reduction effect will be merged into the Combat skill. I'd also like to remove the passive poison shrugging granted by the skill, if this is not going to be too unbalancing.

---

Healing will be getting updated, though we are still working on how we're going to address it.

---

Allheale is going to be specifically made to cure mental/internal/spiritual affs at random. Non-mutilated physical affs may also be included here. In general there should be little-to-no difference player-side here.

---

Aura of rebounding will be removed entirely following upcoming monk updates.

---

We are looking at adjustments to regen values overall, and will be making significant updates here. I'm not sure what all is finalized on this as of right now, so I'm not going to release numbers at present, but overall we're going to look into reducing overall regen levels from skills while making the larger buffs much more valuable/worthwhile.

---

I will get back to converting defenses to the Overhaul defense system. This is fairly low priority because it has few mechanical implications, and is primarily a convenience thing for how we handle defenses internally.
7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
«134

Comments

  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    Will allheale still cure blackout
    image
  • TwytchTwytch Member Posts: 485 Expert
    Re: Resilience -> Combat, yay! Less skills to learn.  ^:)^
    See you in Sapience.
  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 581 Master
    There is a huge amount of stuff here, and I wish I had a long post to reply on it, but I should be in bed for midterm tomorrow. 

    This timing, woe is me. Much of this is awesome and I will share any concerns that come up later.
  • DylaraDylara Member Posts: 1,287 Transcendent
    I'm on board with ditching Resilience as a skill, it's like when they did it years ago with that other skill that is happily forgotten. 

    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me. Member Posts: 1,611 Transcendent
    MASSIVE ERECTION....of an Ieptix statue, of course.
    image
  • ShedrinShedrin Member Posts: 905 Transcendent
    So exciting.

    I have a ton of thoughts, unfortunately they'll have to wait til tomorrow.

    Overall I like the direction. Details can be hammered out over time.

    RIP in peace aeon, you won't be missed.
  • WobouWobou Member Posts: 131 Capable
    I too like the direction of all of this. Since you asked for feedback I wanted to mention telekinesis since its primary affliction and kill condition is not technically an overhaul affliction and many of its secondary afflictions are on old cures as well (clots, psychicfist still causes pre-overhaul affs like broken jaw, etc.)
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,650 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Are we going to look into the damage of certain classes that I've been told took a big hit with the new buff system?

    Also is it just me or does moving so many things to ice make it seem like a very big buff to any class that has a lot of ice afflictions?
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,403 Transcendent
    Ieptix said:


    Cleanse is, at present, remaining as a cure, though we have plans to take a look at druidry at some point in the future and rework it to eliminate sap and allow the removal of cleanse.

    We still plan on removing ectoplasm at some point in the future; once the current batch of issues is addressed, I will be sitting down with the Necromancy envoys to work out a way to do this cleanly.

    ---

    Due to aeon now being cured by an asthma-blocked cure instead of an anorexia-blocked cure, there are several cases where the ability to apply the poison chansu concurrently with aeon attacks (e.g. from beasts). Because of the power of aeon, this is undesirable. As such, chansu will be changed to deal a different affliction; at this time, we are planning on moving it to anorexia instead.

    Additionally, I am going to look into the possibility of having aeon be implemented as a command queue, instead of having input override the previous command and restart the command delay timer. This means it will be possible to send multiple commands in succession while under aeon, and have them be applied one at a time with the appropriate delay between each command. There are a few technical and design issues that need to be worked out here before I can commit to this, but it is something I will be investigating.

    ---

    Resilience will go away, with a lesson refund. Its damage reduction effect will be merged into the Combat skill. I'd also like to remove the passive poison shrugging granted by the skill, if this is not going to be too unbalancing.

    .
    Just to comment on some of those above. It would definitely be great to rework sap/aeon. I'm not sure if it'll be possible or if you'll face objections, but I'm definitely willing to help figure something out.

    Resilience and poison shrugging going away will be a good idea to restart poisons and physicals on a new slate, instead of the weird rng based balancing of it.

    There is one specific thing I wanted to feedback to the admin (and to the larger forum community) for discussion, though. That would be paralysis as an affliction.

    Paralysis is a very big affliction here in Lusternia because of its unique 1s cure delay, providing a huge amount of prone time for classes that needed it sorely to bypass stancing, parry and unlock afflictions/damage. In otherwords, very important for monks and warriors.

    However, this cure delay has only been possible in Lusternia because paralysis curing cannot be blocked except by a focus blocks (impatience? was the afflction, I think), and also because curing paralysis never blocked any other affliction except focus spirit afflictions (all other afflictions cured by focus mind can be cured by another cure). Once focus is deleted, however, this changes. Paralysis will become an affliction that prones (prevents attacks and movement) the target, unlocks prone based afflictions/bonuses, has a 1s cure delay AND takes up a purity dust cure balance (therefore blocks and can be blocked by other purity dust cure afflictions) AND can be blocked by anorexia (instead of impatience now).

    In light of this, I would venture to say that the 1s cure delay should be removed, and possibly even more than that, but at the least, the 1s cure delay is something that we probably don't want to see. What do you think?

  • AeldraAeldra Member Posts: 993 Mythical
    I think the general idea sounds 95% awesome. I'm a little concerned about what will happen to healing but I'll wait with any critic on that till I see what will actually happen to it. I'm glad to see aeon being addressed and we'll have to see how heavily aeon reliant classes will do after it's been changed. But aeon is a pain, so RIP.

    The only real concern I have here is: moving fire/frost to ICE seems a genuinely bad idea, because it allows a lot of synergy between mages (specifically celest and gaudiguch mages) and warriors, something I feel like shouldn't be happening, as the other four orgs don't have the same advantage. Also, can we please not make everything cured by ICE ?
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    what, people in other orgs can't afflict with frost/fire or use pyrotoxins/mactans?

    are those really guardian/mage things?
    image
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,403 Transcendent
    Ablaze is generally less prevalent as class-abilities than shivering/frozen, I think. Could be a good idea to start putting in reports to get some fire breathing fae or "swing your nekai so fast it creates sparks that cause ablaze" abilities.

    Hrmm.... a good idea, actually, now that I've typed it out to think about it. Maybe next month...

  • AeldraAeldra Member Posts: 993 Mythical
    edited February 2016
    @Marcella sorry, poisons don't count for me there. Only way for e. g. a guardian or mage to afflict with a poison (as far as I know) is through beast spit. And while that's certainly a thing, it's a whole different level then say a pyro or water mage demense, at least in my book.

    if we do, as @lerad said, make them generally more available as afflictions to other orgs, then yes, maybe. But wouldn't that make the originality of said mages go away by a part? I would rather see that fire/frost are handled by something that doesn't block ice. I personally think it's too easy to create unwanted or overpowered synergies there, not only relation to warriors.

    Of course, am not the expert here, though.
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • TwytchTwytch Member Posts: 485 Expert
    FireMead (Gaudiguch's special brew) has a chance to proc ablaze on attack, IIRC. If more people used it (or, to be specific, if Gaudiguch got more combatants who then use FireMead), you'd see more of ablaze!
    See you in Sapience.
  • EldanienEldanien Member Posts: 369 Gifted
    Regarding paralysis, stance is going away as a mechanic last I heard - it was meant to go away as soon as monks were overhauled.  So in a sense, paralysis losing some of it's benefit.

    This does not and is not meant to refute @Lerad's comments about paralysis.  Because of the proning time, paralysis is/was a useful tool in the melee offensive and should be carefully handled.  It's set to become very potent with the upcoming changes.

    Because the status quo is gone and missing, where to tune the potency dial on paralysis (or for that matter, anything) should look at the current situation rather than what went on before.  I wouldn't suggest paralysis be put at the same level of effectiveness it was before, so much as figuring out where we need to put it for overall mechanics balance.  We shouldn't dismiss the possibility that it needs to be more effective or less effective than it was in the past, depending on how everything else turns out for those who would use it.

  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 395 Virtuoso
    On fire still providing the defense but not curing: Do you mean the frost resistance or the fire defense which blocks shivering once? If the latter, would that mean it would be possible to raise fire defense while shivering or frozen?
  • NienlaNienla Member Posts: 272 Expert
    edited February 2016
    I personally feel that ditching the shrugging from Resilience is an outstanding step forward, as is ditching Resilience in general as this lowers the barrier of entry for new players since Resilience is one of the most important ones to get. However, one of my concerns from ditching the shrugging is something that @Synkarin has mentioned in the past in that warriors/monks may be too potent in terms of aff rate with shrugging removed.

    Regarding Druid, I am very happy to hear that Sap will likely be removed as it has been the achille's heel for Druids since the advent of the game. I'd like to recommend, in fact, that Blacktalon and Hartstone get a separation here with skillsets instead of both just having Druidry so they can be more unique like the Mages are. Not only that, but with the loss of Sap, this can allow Druidry tertiaries to finally get some much needed love because they've been outdated/relatively crappy for ages because of Sap and Allergies.

    Because of these changes, I'm actually starting to see Lusternia move towards the traditional IRE-curing schema and despite what some people may think, this is a GOOD thing. This means that a majority of classes will no longer rely almost entirely on 'run or die' uncurable aff mechanics (like Inquisition) and affliction-based offenses can become more of a viable thing on their own.

    I was really skeptical of the overhaul, but I'm starting to see the overall picture and I'm very happy about it.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Re: resilience and shrugging: I'd personally like to see either shrugging from resilience go away completely, or everyone has shrugging as if they had max resilience. That'd mean the bar is lowered quite a bit against poison-using classes, since everything seems to be balanced around trans resilience.

    Re: aeon cure queue, personally, I'd like to see a separate queue a'la stratagems, to avoid unfortunate situations. For instance, you're hit with an attack that causes three afflictions, so your system fires away three cures. Before any of those go through, however, you're also hit with aeon, which means the three cures are now queued up if it's a general command queue. A stratagem-like queue would also mean you'd be able to adjust it as the situation develops.
    image
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    I had discussed with Ieptix about moving burns and chills to ice, and ultimately I think it's a good call. 

    Burns as a kill method are isolated to Pyromancers, and I don't forsee burn group strategies being more efficient than current mana drain ganks. Moving it to ice will also bring the Pyro burn strategies back in line to where they were previously.  

    Changing chills to ice will probably require the removal of mactans as a poison to prevent a repeat of the calcise issue we are currently experiencing. The good news is no one uses mactans. 

    What do you mean by "larger regen buffs?" I'm trying to think about what provides regen and most comes from skills or the odd quest like the spire. I guess I can't tell by the wording if it's going to be linearly applied with more weight for certain things or progressive curve skewed towards the higher levels. One of the previous issues with regen was it sucked for 90% of the game, but then you had niche players like Harmony monks where it was outright stupid. 
    image
  • EldanienEldanien Member Posts: 369 Gifted
    Eldanien's currently classflexed as Paladin (almost, skills aren't transed).
    **************************[ Bodyscan - Regeneration ]**************************
    Stat          Effect                                  Value   Max
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Health        Mercy                                   2       6
    Health        Demigod                                 3       8
    Health        Celestial holy water                    4       8
    Health        Athletic regeneration                   2       8
                    Total                                 8
                                                                    
    Mana          Perfection                              2       6
    Mana          Demigod                                 3       8
    Mana          Celestial holy water                    4       8
                    Total                                 8
                                                                    
    Ego           Beauty                                  2       6
    Ego           Demigod                                 3       8
    Ego           Celestial holy water                    4       8
                    Total                                 8
                                                                    
    *******************************************************************************


    I'll try to get a copy of his regens up when he returns to Tahtetso, but I'm 99% sure his regens are 10/8/8 if and only if he's got Psymet regeneration locked.  It completely doesn't matter what Harmony mantras he has up, as far as his regen goes.

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    Don't really need them, I'm not talking about what regen is right now. Plus most of yours is holy water, not class specific.

    I inquired about the meaning of "larger regen skills" and if it would be a linear progression like buffs/resists or if it's going to slant towards higher skills

    PS. WTF Holy water is level 4 universal regen? I get 200 bonus damage every 3 attacks. Maybe we need to revisit the org specific drinks. 
    image
  • EldanienEldanien Member Posts: 369 Gifted
    Could be.  Changeover to the x/10 system, overhaul changes and everything make me think the envoys need to look over everything with a fine tooth comb.

    Now I'm going to have to peek at org constructs.  I've only ever alted so I could get a sense for each org's collegiums, way forever ago.

  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 581 Master
    edited February 2016
    Ok! Time for bigger, shinier, better replies!

    Monks! Yay monks! Not much to say here, it is all coming up.

    == Focus ==

    Doubled cure balance seems very harsh. We do not really have issues with hardlocks or overlapping cures anymore, so this is likely to not really be required.  When did you forsee needing to focus a cure generally? 

    Would beast curing be a single skill that only works with focus then? Right now it is 3 skills, are these being rolled into one?


    == Deadening == 

    No problem with removal. Is not really used anywhere that makes it important.


    == Fire / Frost / Burns / Etc ==

    There are issues that arise if you make ice the cure to these. 
    + Burns used to be a 1s balance, ice is 2s balance. This means that we would need to speed up recovery rate AND increase burns healed due to wounds and afflictions.  This change would mean broken limbs (several skills can do) would become far stronger for pyros and aquas.  Aquas have a skill to strip the balance, do burst damage, etc based on chill (preserve).   Making burns tie into warriors (it would be the same cure as wounds) makes this a bigger problem.   I would honestly rather see a 5th "outlier" cure. 

    + Burns are only really used by one guild. They could be treated the same as cloudcoils and removed in favor of a better focused method. I am open to suggestion on where else they are important, but it seems likely to break things if the only cure we can find also happens to line up with warriors and such. Even if we removed calcise and dendroxin as ice cures, TK and such could still readily deliver breaks, meaning you either can't attack/run or you will die of burns. Either way seems lazy.

    + Chills and frozen have the same issue as above, noting that frozen and chills increases balance loss and causes eq loss on tic instead of killing people. This is mainly used by aquas for an insta, and could similarly go away.  

    + If both of the above are needed, we need applying to burns to be faster than normal speed, and possibly make chills a dust cure (hot and dry). 

    + Would rather see APPLY LUCIDITY (cold and wet) being cure for burns, but betting part of the intent of being on ice was stacking to make it easier to work with.

    + We would need to make pyrotoxin never be able to cause burns if we used ice as well, or we end up with all kinds of problems.

    == Insanity and Timewarp ==

    Insanity seems likely to be lucidity and timewarp should likely be soothing steam if aeon is.   That said, aeon should always cure first, and with the aeon changes this could be reasonable I THINK. Would need to test how readily available aeon spam helps things tic.



    == Earwort and Faeleaf ==

    I cannot think of any pressing reasons for these to need to use dust balance. Both have built in timers/hinders (earache and flared) that stop this from really being a concern. That said, were you also meaning those two as cure for blind/deaf?  AKA are you trying to use this to phase out myrtle?


    == Entangles ==

    This is okay I guess, though we may want to look at slower contort/slip slightly to compensate for the lack of being able to double up.  Similarly, increase eq cost on tipheret.  I am hoping we change grapples to not require curing, so assuming they are not included.  Truss and rushing will need big changes for this. 


    == Bearhug ==

    Ima hug em and squeeze em and call him George.


    == Cleanse == 

    Yay for one day going away probably!


    == Nihilists == 

    The most shafted guild at present, they lost basically all their kill methods.  Pacts and pledges need changing, primarily they are missing asthma and pledges should not have shackles.


    == Aeon ==

    First off, we need a sigil that auto refills pipes from rift.  This is especially important with things like aeon being a smoke cure now.   

    Asthma probably should be removed from dramaturgy due to increased ease of locks. It used to be you cure use focus to break out of the setup fairly reliably, this is not possible with focus going away and asthma not being a focus cure.

    Those said: I like the intent to change it and look forward to the changes to the guilds that rely on it. This will likely mean huge changes for several guilds to leave them still usable.

    Chansu change is also likely good, and could be interesting. This needs to be known though to help figure out warriors and monks that might rely on chansu for locks.


    == Summon Resistance ==

    I like the idea of this change and being more uniform about things, though I can understand the complications from what I understand.


    == Resilience ==

    Yay lesson refunds. Poison shrugging will likely need more analysis and such of course. Sounds like we are planning to change several.


    == Healing ==

    Add duress. Attempting to use healing when not masochistic implies you might be under duress and would have an actual cost instead of free healing. Some things should potentially be made to STOP healing until cured as well. 


    == Allheale == 

    No problems here at present.


    == Rebounding ==

    No problems here either. 


    == Regeneration == 

    I like this change as I believe there was discussion about making regen more varied to encourage high regen being more valuable. If it was a non linear increase with levels then many things would get lower caps to help with that.  Screw that holy water and spire of dio mass regen thing though!



    Now for things now in the post that I wanted to bring up!


    == Passive Afflictions ==

    Can we set a reasonable standard of par for skills going forward?  Consider the differences of things at this point:   greywhispers is something like 3 afflictions every 5 seconds (4.5s of lucidity balance) at a potential free cost with homunculus but phantoms is more power for a single aff and slight damage.   Pyromeld is several applies of things a tic vs the one or so of aqua.  We have slowly allowed power creep in newer guilds, resulting in higher dealing rates without compensating older guilds.  What is the target here?


    == Unpopular idea 1 ==

    Add a couple more afflictions to each cure. 

    The system is simple, but potentially simple to the extent things seem too familiar to eachother. Adding a couple afflictions to separate people would not go amiss and would improve things a bit, could even be afflictions that tie into a focus like impeding healing or such.  Examples could be thought up if there is some willingness to explore this.


    == The 5th cure ==

    I actually would prefer having a 5th cure to handle things like burns, shivers, ablaze, etc.  I liked having a focus skill at inept that was used for this sort of purpose specifically. 

    ala 

    FOCUS BODY 
    "You focus on raising your body temperature, [shrugging off the chill sunk into your bones|melting the ice that clings to your skin]."
    "You focus on repairing your skin, mending [some|all] of the burns that plague you."

    That sort of thing. Dealing with regulating your own temperature or such.  Could also potentially have arguments to do things like deal with blindness or such.  Skill could be called homeostasis and be based on returning to your own.




    Think I should end this here for the moment!
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    I suggest going Aetolia's route and replacing most instances of paralysis afflicting with paresis, which is less restrictive than paralysis. If you fail to cure paresis after a few seconds (or the person afflicting you used a special power skill that specifically deals the more powerful paralysis , it develops into full blown paralysis. I think that paresis in Aetolia kills parry, stops moving out of the room like paralysis would, stops instakills that are stopped by getting paralyzed now, stops shielding, and uh... stops their allheale-like power. Paresis specifically does not stop using most skills and attacks, so it doesn't totally shut down a combatant until they cure it. 
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    One more time for the people in the back:

    THE ONLY SKILLSET THAT CAN CAPITALIZE ON BURNS IS PYROMANCY.

    Warriors causing burns does literally nothing unless there is a Pyromancer in the room. Breaks and burns were already on the same balance pre overhaul. It is not lazy. It is how they already functioned.

    I, personally, wouldn't mind seeing this become a org wide kill method a la mana kills that 4 other orgs have, without turning it into a generic below x value stat. Some variety is good, but that variety needs to be viable. 
    image
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    Tips for those getting resilience refund:

    second trade
    image
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,650 Transcendent
    I'm not really understanding what the argument being made is. Does only one class being able to take advantage of something potentially broken justify it being so powerful? 
  • WobouWobou Member Posts: 131 Capable
    @Celina The difference is under the old system wounds had nothing to do with salve balance. So yes the change to burns is fairly 1-to-1 but in the context of warriors + pyros that combination is going to be a lot stronger now because you will have to choose between burns or wounds when you didn't before. We'll see how strong it ends up being when the changes come in.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,478 Transcendent
    edited February 2016
    Burns and breaks being on the same cure? Already a thing pre overhaul.

    Burn stacking in groups? Already a thing pre overhaul.

    Interaction between mages and warriors? Already a thing pre overhaul.

    If we are concerned that burns and wounds now share a cure, I am confused as to how that is fundamentally more powerful or more broken than how warriors worked pre overhaul where you had to choose between damage and wounds in group settings. Or you had to choose between curing vessels or wounds. Now you choose between burns, a significantly less available kill method than damage, and wounds in groups. 

    Instead of a mage spamming damage at you while the warrior builds wounds, the mage can build burns while the warrior builds wounds. The details the speed at which this can be accomplished can be tweaked, but we are not breaking new ground here. We're doing our best to maintain the status quo without creating new mechanics.

    I'm not reinventing the wheel here, people. 
    image
  • WobouWobou Member Posts: 131 Capable
    TKs will be weaker interacting with warriors but pyros will be stronger. I say that because just being in meld passively will allow that building where as before it required active pressure from the mage. Again I'm not sure if this will be a big deal or not, it probably won't because frankly I haven't seen a pyro meld since I started playing again.
«134
Sign In or Register to comment.