You guys really need to post more logs (and discuss them for the purpose of enhancing the game)

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Comments

  • That's really non case at all when you have neutered mana regeneration and are already using your curing balances efficiently. In fact, you're better off stockpiling bleeding and clotting after performing tumble variants.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    I think you're kinda leaving out that you and Tarken built all that bleed on me in about ~15 seconds. I don't know how I'm supposed to have reflexes that fast...or how to conceivably clot 1500 bleeding in that short amount of time without dying to toadcurse.

    image
  • As an example try Curing the haemophilia first, that way eg you get in 16 seconds four sips of mana instead of letting it build and clotting it all in one go. Four sips heals more mana than one sip.

    It's a simple case of if you let the bleed build and clot it up in one go you can't spread the healing and keep yourself topped up. 

    Were doing the same bleed either way but by not curing it earlier your delaying your overall mana curing.

    I mean two folks focusing on you with your system paused for a bit and you not shielding or hindering at all will result in you dying. Your not going to avoid the death by curing better but you would extend and delay the death.
  • edited May 2017
    If he's curing it, regardless of if it's in chunks or in whole, it's still mana attrition which is putting him under while his mana sips are already going at full efficiency. 

    By curing the bleeding, regardless, he's killing himself.
    'Paused curing system' isn't even an analog at all, I don't know why you're implying it is.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • He paused his system in the log. Like he stopped curing for a bit.


  • Also like look at the log as an example of why it's good to clot constantly as soon as you get the bleeding instead of in large bursts. He ate sparkle berry at 90% health and 100% mana. After three balances used. If he'd have focused cured hemo first and clotted then that sparkle berry would have cured mana.

    So he'd have gotten rid of bleeding earlier. Taken less damage from the bleed tick and have higher mana.

    I mean it seems a fairly straight forward thing to me. Clot early and heal more Vs clot later take more damage and a bigger mana burst.

    If you disagree with it fair enough everyone has the right to their opinions and if it's just I thought pretty clotting early was a pretty standard and straight forward tatics across all ire games.
  • I agree with Veyils to the extent that his curing could be better.

    I agree with Yarith at the same time because I literally run Mugwump demi + with magicrown just to be able to have a chance against the bleed/mana drain.

    I still get toaded sometimes, haha.

    You guys can both be right :)
    Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • @mailgorn
    I'm on the phone so it's hard to read it exactly but I'm counting me doing approx 6 balances and the bleed was at 1k ish from your diagnosis so that that's about 13-16 seconds With basically no mana curing or clotting. So by not clotting early your losing out on a scroll read, a few mana sips and a few sparkles.

    My advice would be to put hemo on a higher priority when bleeding.

    @shedrin put out a bit of code in another thread you can plug into mm that'll switch your dust prios and focus cure it on or off over a set amount of bleed. My advice would be to put that in and work from there.
  • Maligorn asked for advice about improving his curing and that's the advice. I'm not saying he's going to suddenly become immune to toading @ciaran :D but by switching it up he could survive in that situation longer. Still probably would have died.
  • Two mana drain classes focusing mana without being hindered will get you into trouble eventually. 
  • edited May 2017
    How many 'mana drain classes' passively build large amounts of bleeding, a multi-vital pressuring mechanic with stacking modifiers for curing, and for incoming amount alongside diminishing modifiers for removal, at a rate which rivals two mana draining classes actively draining? :?

    Further, name me one other mana draining class with such modifiers as listed above? :S
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • edited May 2017
    Maligorn said:
    Veyils said:
    Hmm I'm not sure if your tracking bleeding right. In that first log Indoril hit you four times with noose once with there passives and you didn't clot or use any mana outside what I assume is a ticking defense like metawake? Until you got the you are bleeding message.

    Then I dont see anoher clot attempt until another you are bleeding message and then after you cure haemophilla much later in the fight. It looks like the bleedings building up and your clotting it down in bursts instead of clotting it down gradually.

    Hard to tell without bleed on your prompt but if I were you I'd check my system is clotting. Try getting someone to hit you and do mmconfig gagclot off and see if your recognisng it right?
    When I ran into nature veil, I was only bleeding for 63 health. Let's see. Bardsong (I'm guessing spidercantiga and bloodycaps), shadowchord+nightsweats (what is that spider bites hitting me with shadowchord?), redcap, twist -- and I'm up to 875 bleed.

    spiderbites, twist, unlucky herbbanes on my chervil, ecology pet sting, spider bites again, and I'm up to 1593 bleed. I really don't know where that bleed is coming from, but I cured Indo's bleed way before it was just you + Tarken.
    Spidercantiga does masked poisons, not bleeding (unless that changed and I missed it). Twist definitely does not cause bleeding. Redcap is roughly 200 every 10 seconds, nightsweats is 150-200 every 10+ seconds (however long it takes for that to recharge), bloodycaps is generously 250-300(?) every 8 seconds. 

    Neither Harbinger nor Shadowdancer build "large amounts of bleeding" passively. SD has literally redcap every 10 seconds, and barghest every ~30 seconds. Harbinger has bloodycaps. Both are comparable or inferior to a Nihilist with bleed invested, or a Celestine with mana drain invested. Glom only gets the edge when the pieces are put together. 

    The reason it works so sell is because virtually everyone autoclots and just sets the threshold to 50% rather than allowing their fatty health pools to tank some bleeding. The default is spam clot mana, when you should be manually adjusting to tank the bleed when they are focusing on drains. You may not survive, but you'll certainly survive longer, which is how you counter Glom in group fights. Similarly to how aeon is meh alone, but exponentially better when it can be applied by multiple sources. 

    They can eat your mana for breakfast, but toadcurse isn't a spammable instakill. After the first target (or second assuming refresh power), they just have damage. 

     
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • edited May 2017
    No other org stacks with its 'pieces together' like Glomdoring does.

    Also, that bleeding is far more valuable than the nihilist invested bleeding due the nature of shadowbeat, saying the values are remotely equal is disingenuous. 

    Edit: Let's not begin to mention Wyrdenwood's 600-750 bloodleaves every 11, 600-750 reactionary bleeding, 500+ bleeding on the roomwide bomb alongside the >30% health and ~3s? stun.

    EDIT*2: And, I mean, if we're comparing those values to invested demon/angel the guardian is sacrificing the entirety of their passives to do comparable bleeding to the passive bleeding of the Glom counterpart alongside every other fae/song.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • edited May 2017
    1) No other org has as well designed group focus strategies as Glom. Some simply have bad mechanics (Mag and plague afflictions) and some have fit all solutions like aeon (Hallifax) that work with virtually everything. 

    2) Uh huh. Cute. The factual reality is that the bleed and mana drain amounts are comparable independently to their Glomdoring counterparts, and as I clearly stated, only become superior when the pieces are put together. A Harbinger alone is not any more dangerous to your mana pool than a Nihilist (double invest bleed, symbol bleed, spawn), but a Harbinger + a Shadowdancer is significantly superior than a Cacophonist + Nihilist. 

    Again, neither SD nor Harbinger build "large amounts of bleeding," passively. Neither an SD nor a Harbinger alone rival 2 mana drain classes focusing on mana drains. You are exaggerating (or being outright incorrect) to make your point.

    I'm not really arguing about how OP/UP Glom mana drain/bleed stack is, but you're not really being fair or accurate. 
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • edited May 2017
    Then I will accept your argument as there being an unequal distribution in group stacking biased in favour of Glomdoring.


    Edit: I'm being both fair and accurate. Perhaps we have different ideas of 'large' values of bleeding but if you translate the bleeding values to their mana consumption costs I think you'll find the amount of vital attrition performed by bleeding values far outpaces counterparts.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • Lol, you're so extra.



    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • @Fyler I just tossed a disagree in because I don't think it's realistic to expect people to be able to just leave bleed on in group fights to save their mana.

    1v1 that is a thing, but in groups you just die doing that.  Especially with the speed and nature of the bleed stack.

    (Otherwise, no comment)
    Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/jxp2bhD5
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/gT-wYnWV

    I don't enjoy the sit back and fill your cup while you die moments from 0 dmg. But, I understand it takes at least 3 people to do this so that's neglible.

    Good fights today overall
     "Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."

    -Kilian

  • Tarken stares at you with a burning intensity. Tarken is targeting you! Tarken is targeting you!
    Tarken is targeting you! Tarken is targeting you! Tarken is targeting you! Tarken is targeting you!
    H:6698h(98%)|M:98%|E:100% [T:Tarken][P:8(43)][bkr][ex][PRONE]-[M:MADFLY](8bl)
    Tarken thrusts a black steel nekai into the ground near you.
    H:6698h(98%)|M:98%|E:100% [T:Tarken][P:8(43)][bkr][ex][PRONE]-[M:MADFLY](8bl)
    Tarken raises his arms and dances around you, spinning faster and faster. With each pass around you,
    he shimmers with a dark beauty while your thoughts become cloudier and cloudier.

    Huh?? What is this Nekai stuff doing here? (Tarken, you are SD now right?)
    Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • It's just Steal and you can do it with any weapon, iirc.
  • It just defaults to the right hand by the looks of things and I wield the athame in the left.
  • Axelord vs monkish shadow dude, upon @Lerad request:

    here
    Nodding once, a mother's kindness in Her ancient voice, Lisaera, the Hallowed Crone says to you, "And I will watch you well, little one. I admire your courage.”

    Silver crystals form in the ethereal haze of the storm glass amulet, twisting and writhing like trapped smoke, until distinct words that only you can read solidify in the cup of the chalice, "Your strength is potent and you are wise, Torgaddon, but remember to use your might to shield the weaker ones of the Serenwilde. They will need people like you to keep them safe. I watch with pride, My child."
  • Some pointers would be cool! Me and @Veyils be chilling and whacking each other (Axelord vs. Nekai): 

    click here for da fight
    Nodding once, a mother's kindness in Her ancient voice, Lisaera, the Hallowed Crone says to you, "And I will watch you well, little one. I admire your courage.”

    Silver crystals form in the ethereal haze of the storm glass amulet, twisting and writhing like trapped smoke, until distinct words that only you can read solidify in the cup of the chalice, "Your strength is potent and you are wise, Torgaddon, but remember to use your might to shield the weaker ones of the Serenwilde. They will need people like you to keep them safe. I watch with pride, My child."
  • You'll want to trigger this line:

    As Veyils starts her form, she taps a few places on your body and you feel the bleeding flow free.

    To alert you - that's the monk instakill prep. Shield or run for the next 10s after you get hit with that.

    Second, you might want to work on your ice prios a little. Collapsedlung is above damagedthroat in your priorities it seems - and so is damagedleg. It's a hard choice to make - collapsedlung gives Nekotai faster hemorrhaging (it's one of our hemo affs), so curing it after damagedthroat means that you'll get prepped for the insta significantly faster. However, going with damagedthroat uncured for such long periods may or may not be wise. At one point, Veyils damagedthroat/damagedleg you at her killer stance form, and then cycled down to base stance instead of regressing. That damagedthroat stayed on you all the way until she was at her surge form again, basically, around 12s. If latency had been in her favour, it would've stayed on you for longer (your system sent to cure damaged throat right before she hit, you and the command went through right after she hit you - if your latency had been faster, you would've cured it and her hit would have re-applied damaged throat)

    Veyils and I worked out a possible slush stack strategy, but it looked like she wasn't using it. If she was, those 12s of damagedthroat would have... given you a very bad time.

    @Veyils looping damagedlegs at the high stance forms are a little wasteful, I feel. Damagedorgans/crushedchest into collapsedlung/damagedthroat will probably help more. Though I did notice at one point you were looping center/surge instead of your surge/killer loop with the double angknek, probably to do the abovementioned combination. The ironic thing is that when you switched over to that center/surge loop, you kept getting parried on your chest hits - that was when you needed the double angknek, whereas earlier on, when you were looping the double angknek, you were duplicating it too much, and not getting much hemorrhaging in, because Torgaddon kept curing collapsedlung first.

    Either way, you probably need to highlight the parries and be ready to switch back to the double angkneks for parry disable (and vice versa), otherwise, we won't make much progress against the repeated parries. In this case, finding some way to highlight the fact that Torgaddon cures collapsedlung first will mean you should switch to that slush stack strategy instead, to exploit the fact that damagedthroat will inevitably stick for long periods.

  • Throwing out senso on your axe doesnt really do anything at all. You have no smoke balances to take advantage of and its just a case of smoke steam/apply ice it doesnt really slow it down at all.

    Only time I could see throwing out senso on the axe as a good idea would be if you were also spitting an alternative smoke cure as well. Eg against a Wiccan spit disloyality and hit with senso at the same time if they both land you maybe delaying the ice cure a bit.

    Although honestly just for pure wounding builds I really think your best just using dulak. It can actually delay the ice apply by a few ticks it can also force some pretty heavy hinder on a target if you get lucky.

    Little tip on refreshing as a warrior don't refresh at 2 power. You are going for super quick wound build. Throw two sweeps out wait till power regens to four then sweep again then refresh when you have balance so you can sweep instantly again. If you refresh before your at 0 power your waisting a bit of wounding potential.

    Your curing handled the double leg breaks well at the start even without parry on your legs they didn't hinder you at all until the 6th or 7th combo. I think me doing the regression stuff in the middle there was trying to get into the right stance to go for the kill.


    I'm basically of the mind now after a bit of practice and reading the logs that regression is pointless for monks who want to go for hemo build or a kill. Its good for hinder tatics but its really bad for building hemo or going for a kill.

    Two regressions is nearing 9-10 seconds of balance, so slow its unlikely you'll have a bonus so you'll end up doing about 60 hemo for them curing 100. Or if you use power thats two hits for about 6 seconds and 60 hemo.
    Vs
    Just boosting to the next stance and getting a set 60 per 2.5 second combo.

    The hemo change really simplifed monks tatics Monks are better off just powering through stances to build hemo and ignoring stance shifts for better afflictions. I honestly would like to see stance dancing correctly as something a monk has to do to be optimal. Make them have to make a judgement call if going forwards or backwards is the better option.


  • wow, not only did somebody beat me to it, and not only was it months ago, but they did so with exactly the same image. 
    #latetotheparty

    This one then



  • Is that meat loaf or cake?
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • Its a christmas chocolate log.

    Its basically a flat chocolate sponge cake  and chocolate cream rolled up then toped with thick chocolate icing,



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