You guys really need to post more logs (and discuss them for the purpose of enhancing the game)

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Comments

  • I find it interesting that your response to your point being broken was a deflection. 
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • Reylari said:
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/RfDYCC3G - Plenty of critical hits LONG before he was even close to unravel range. He just didn't capitalise on them very well; if he went for mutilates more, he could've massively stalled my build up (and likely even killed me)

    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/5DPVDsae - Ended up going for timequake instead of aurawarp since that was building faster (which i'll explain below), but if you just ctrl+f and look for 'critical' you can see just how fast he's reaching that level. Compare it to the Rolsand log and you'll see the building speeds.

    Kreon/Kai log, pls. I wasn't being snarky, I legitimately cannot find it.

    --

    One thing I'll agree on is the speed at which RESEARCHER Institute builds aurawarp; I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, we've not received an answer but... If someone's afflicted with both aurawarp and timewarp, smoking will only cure half a level of each, which is problematic in the long run for getting aurawarp built since gems passively give timewarp... If it's a bug, hopefully it gets looked into. If it's not a bug, then maybe that needs to be looked into and changed. Rather than Healer specifically.

    Thats a good point to bring up about researcher aurawarp. I was basing most of my solo timers on Researcher aurawarp builds. 
  • edited May 2017
    Other classes can do the same thing by afflicting with steam afflictions. It's not as passive as researchers can do it, but it works.

    Edit: I think it was Aeldra that I was working with..? When we changed her combos to strictly spam steam affs between flays she got to cauterize wildly fast.
    Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • Ciaran said:
    Other classes can do the same thing by afflicting with steam afflictions. It's not as passive as researchers can do it, but it works.

    Edit: I think it was Aeldra that I was working with..? When we changed her combos to strictly spam steam affs between flays she got to cauterize wildly fast.
    That... Wasn't what I stated. To elaborate:
    • With just aurawarp, smoking steam will cure said aurawarp. This is fine.
    • With aurawarp + a steam aff, smoking steam will cure the aff and aurawarp (maybe slightly less?) alongside one another. This is also fine...
    • When the target has aurawarp + timewarp, smoking steam will only cure half of each. This is not fine, considering the speed at which you can apply timewarp with malefacts... If it's a bug (we haven't received a response) then it needs to be fixed. If it's not a bug (really weird if it's not) then it should be looked into when envoys are brought back up.

    Email:        el.ni93@hotmail.com
    Discord:    Rey#1460
  • Ok I just woke up and I kinda skimmed so I'm not sure what I'm being used to prove here. I will say in War, I wasn't going for Cauterize at all. I was trying to support (and made several mistakes which would have turned the tide).

    I'm not really sure what you guys are arguing. That aurawarp buildup should or shouldn't be nerfed? I think it should. It builds faster than most pressure-style offenses, and with plenty of downtime to hinder inbetween flays and the defensive options that Healing provides and the Primary/Secondary skillsets which are balanced around burst combos.

    Reylari has put a lot of work into optimizing her offense and I don't think anyone else has reached the level of 1v1 Healing potency. But I'm not sure why this is a point of argument at all. The only thing bringing this point up positively or negatively is to attack egos.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Healing Aurawarp builds faster than warrior offense especially given that Healers also have passive offenses/extra defenses along with it.

    Whereas warriors generally only have their active offense going for them (which can also be parried).

    Most envoys agreed with this statement, so we were trying to address this with the last envoy round, so stay tuned.
    image
  • edited May 2017
    Reylari said:

    Wobou also agrees with me. In fact he's noted (and remedied) curing issues in his system that deal with and handle aurawarp just fine.
    I agree with you about some things but I don't think we agree on everything. I do think aurawarp is overall stronger than wounds. I think the nerfs that are coming to aurawarp (hopefully including removing the cure slow) are in line.

    So in short:
    • I also think the change for aeon and transfix to respect defenses will be good.
    • I also think warriors should be sped up (and have diminishing returns added)
    • I however do think that aurawarp > wounds on the small scale. Cure slowing is brutal and the cure slowing making steam take 3s is nuts. Imagine if being at crit wounds slowed ice balance to 4s.
    I think it's kind of funny, but I'm honored, that both you and @Veyils are citing me as someone who agrees with you while arguing with each other.

    Edit: words.
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight
    Ciaran, yes, you were practicing with me and fiddling around with with it and yes, it got better... but honestly, MD is not the class you want to balance aurawarp around right now, because we're not really that well equipped to work aurawarp ( lack of affliction sources for flay, mostly ). I am sure a researcher or Celestine will make a lot more use out of aurawarp then MD's currently can. Aside of that, I think the cure slowing being removed is a good thing, even though I'm still in not a fan of the replacement solution.
    Avatar / Picture done by the lovely Gurashi.
  • I think SD Healer would be brutal in the right hands. So many tricks that can be done with it, it's gross. Requires a lot of optimising and timing, but talking to @Taer about it... Yep, gross.
    Email:        el.ni93@hotmail.com
    Discord:    Rey#1460
  • SelenitySelenity My first MC to stay in Serenwilde
    Reylari said:
    I think SD Healer would be brutal in the right hands. So many tricks that can be done with it, it's gross. Requires a lot of optimising and timing, but talking to @Taer about it... Yep, gross.
    They used to be brutal. Mania aura on an enemy (hello repeated insomnia cure) + pixie + redcap + nightsweats + full twist. Forget it if you have a Harbinger on your side too.
  • Selenity said:
    Reylari said:
    I think SD Healer would be brutal in the right hands. So many tricks that can be done with it, it's gross. Requires a lot of optimising and timing, but talking to @Taer about it... Yep, gross.
    They used to be brutal. Mania aura on an enemy (hello repeated insomnia cure) + pixie + redcap + nightsweats + full twist. Forget it if you have a Harbinger on your side too.
    Yeah I know their mana drain has always been killer. Talking about cauterise-specific routes, though. There's some really, really dirty things that can be done. Admittedly a lot of the things we thought of requires timing (timing that can be messed up by being stunned/blinded/knocked off bal at the wrong time)
    Email:        el.ni93@hotmail.com
    Discord:    Rey#1460
  • edited May 2017
    They weren't brutal if you knew how to manage mana drains. Only reason SD healers were ever a threat was because 98% of the population didn't update their mana threshold in real time, and treat it like a moving target in the same way you treated parry. 

    And Shuck. Shuck broke everyone if you were patient enough.

    I imagine it'll be a lot of the same with healing due to the linear nature of twist. Relatively easy to counter what you know is coming.
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    edited May 2017
    I like that MDs say that healings not that great for them, then they point to SD.

    SD then say that it's not that great either.

    Poor underpowered healing.
    image
  • edited May 2017
    I'm currently working on SD healer. Just keep getting distracted with other stuff, but it's on my list of things to work out. In my first few runs through, I don't think I'm flaying enough once I stick aeon with twist. It's a tough balancing act because twist and flay both cost 1p and you'll quickly be unable to cauterize if the opportunity came up. 

    I'm not keen on timing reliant strategies here, honestly. Too many random things that can screw you up. 

    I am also not keen on aeon as the primary strategy for achieving a kill just because it is likely going to get nerfed. 

    Ive not thought of it from the mana drain side, though. Hmm. Astrology SD is just a lot better IMO. 
  • edited May 2017
    Shuyin said:
    I like that MDs say that healings not that great for them, then they point to SD.

    SD then say that it's not that great toopportunity.

    Poor underpowered healing.
    I think all classes that have it, have the potential to make it powerful personally. MD is probably the 'worst' but that doesn't mean it's bad by any stretch... The timings for Moon + Healing is kinda cringey from an outsider's view with needing phases of the moon and what not, but the methods for building aurawarp are just as fine as any other. Bendaura has a high chance for giving mentals too, and with succumb, well...

    I think the slow-curing being removed (if that happens) will need something in its place, because that'll mean you can smoke it away faster than it's given (much like timewarp :/)
    Email:        el.ni93@hotmail.com
    Discord:    Rey#1460
  • Astrology is fun and I encourage everyone to try Astrology. Though I think the non-aurawarp aspects of Healing are underutilized by most people. If there was a nice system for healing/supporting allies that would help a lot, I think.
  • MMF has a decent ally healing module that I've modified a bit. I've gotten a lot of use out of the support side of healing, the few times I have used it. Looking forward to more. 
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    You don't need a system to do the big refresh move (forgot name), give phlegmatic auras to cure aeon, or even use OP bolster in this damage meta.

    P.S. if anyone wants to share/update m&m healing, be my guest.
    image
  • The largest hurdle is just noticing who on your side is being attacked in all the spam and then reacting fast enough. It's definitely something a lot of experienced combatants can do, but it's quite a bit more difficult than just bashing the target that most people do. That's the biggest opportunity for scripting help, I think, especially gui stuff.
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon
    edited May 2017
    Astrology is the most interesting guardian/wiccan tert.
  • edited May 2017
    I didn't SD say healer was great or not that great, obviously I have no idea. Never played new healing. What I was saying is that when things are linear, such as twist, it's easier to predict their moves and plan your counters. Which has more to do with twist than healing. Linear isn't necessarily "bad," monks were stupid linear and stupid broken.

    Twist has always been that way, just how it was designed. Powerful, but predictable. I, personally, played healing for survivability godmode and sacrifice (the word @Shuyin was looking for)
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight
    Shuyin said:
    I like that MDs say that healings not that great for them, then they point to SD.

    SD then say that it's not that great either.

    Poor underpowered healing.
    The only MD speaking recently, to my knowledge, was myself. and I said that for one reason: We balance around the 'most powerful reactions' not the 'least powerful reactions', don't we? Also, by no means I did point towards SD at all ( when I was writing this, I didn't even think about SD having healing ). MD healing isn't bad, but it also isn't the most powerful of the healing users, which is my whole point. So you don't want to balance around MD, you want to balance around the classes with more affliction sources.
    Avatar / Picture done by the lovely Gurashi.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    The vortex being fed by the crackling stream of power coming from Indentured Algontherine II [Iaii] expands ever larger, churning with violent energies and rippling the aetherspace around it. (this was the bright red before it completes)
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    The aether here begins warping with a multicoloured light.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]msg kiradawea once my bombard finishes, I will go insert it
    You sent the following message to Kiradawea: Once my bombard finishes, I will go insert it
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    Kiradawea has just left you message #3098.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    The aethers here glow with a multicoloured light before coalescing into the form of The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]turret target ship panther
    You tune the weapon module to target The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26395-will **]
    A battle turret whirrs quietly, ready to be used once again.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]turret target module chair
    That is not a valid ship module. You can select COMMAND, TURRET, GRID, CLOAK, SHIELD, or COLLECTOR.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    The Prowling Panther [Panther] sails away in a northwesterly direction.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    (Ship): Indentured Algontherine II says, "I detect a turret on The Prowling Panther [Panther] has locked onto me!"
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]
    (Ship): Indentured Algontherine II says, "I detect a turret on The Prowling Panther [Panther] has locked onto me!"
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]turret target module command
    You tune the weapon module to target command modules.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26395-will **]
    A battle turret whirrs quietly, ready to be used once again.
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26395-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II rumbles as her shield stops a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [3000-hull, 10-power, no damage, 26400-will *x*]turret clarionblast
    You assault The Prowling Panther [Panther] with a ringing clarion blast of sound.
    [3000-hull, 0-power, no damage, 25900-will **]
    A battle turret whirrs quietly, ready to be used once again.
    [3000-hull, 0-power, no damage, 25914-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II rumbles as her shield stops a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [3000-hull, 0-power, no damage, 25914-will *x*]
    Nierrta, Gentle Winged Beauty of the Wilde [Aetherfoal] sails in from the southeast.
    [3000-hull, 0-power, no damage, 25928-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II rumbles as her shield stops a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [3000-hull, 0-power, no damage, 25928-will *x*]
    The vortex being fed by the crackling stream of power coming from Indentured Algontherine IV [Iaiv] expands ever larger, churning with violent energies and rippling the aetherspace around it.
    [3000-hull, 0-power, no damage, 25942-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II shudders as she is hit by a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [2091-hull, 0-power, light damage, 25942-will *x*]
    Enigma's Gambit [Gambit] fires a blast.
    [2091-hull, 0-power, light damage, 25942-will *x*]
    The vortex being fed by the crackling stream of power coming from Indentured Algontherine III [Iaiii] expands ever larger, churning with violent energies and rippling the aetherspace around it.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25942-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II rumbles as her shield stops a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25942-will *x*]
    Enigma's Gambit [Gambit] fires a blast.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25956-will *x*]
    (Anonymous): Tristanna says, "Prowling panther?"
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25956-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine IV [Iaiv] fires a blast.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25970-will *x*]
    Enigma's Gambit [Gambit] fires a blast of energy.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25970-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II rumbles as her shield stops a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25970-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II rumbles as her shield stops a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25970-will *x*]
    The vortex being fed by the crackling stream of power coming from Enigma's Gambit [Gambit] expands ever larger, churning with violent energies and rippling the aetherspace around it.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25970-will *x*]msg trist kill
    You sent the following message to Trist: Kill
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25970-will *x*]
    Enigma's Gambit [Gambit] fires a blast.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25970-will *x*]
    (Ship): Indentured Algontherine II says, "I detect a turret on Nierrta, Gentle Winged Beauty of the Wilde [Aetherfoal] has locked onto me!"  (What, no, omfg)
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25984-will *x*]
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25984-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine IV [Iaiv] fires a blast.
    [2091-hull, 1-power, light damage, 25984-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II rumbles as her shield stops a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [2091-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25984-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II shudders as she is hit by a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    [1278-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25984-will *x*]
    Enigma's Gambit [Gambit] fires a blast of energy.
    [1278-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25984-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II shudders as she is hit by a blast from Nierrta, Gentle Winged Beauty of the Wilde [Aetherfoal].
    [738-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25984-will *x*]msg trist no
    You sent the following message to Trist: No
    [738-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25998-will *x*]
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    [738-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25998-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine IV [Iaiv] fires a blast.
    [738-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25998-will *x*]
    Nierrta, Gentle Winged Beauty of the Wilde [Aetherfoal] fires a blast.
    [738-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25998-will *x*]
    Enigma's Gambit [Gambit] fires a blast.
    [738-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25998-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II shudders as she is hit by a blast from Nierrta, Gentle Winged Beauty of the Wilde [Aetherfoal].
    [214-hull, 2-power, light damage, 25998-will *x*]msg trist not iaii
    You sent the following message to Trist: Not iaii
    [214-hull, 2-power, light damage, 26012-will *x*]
    Indentured Algontherine II shudders as she is hit by a blast from The Prowling Panther [Panther].
    Indentured Algontherine II [Iaii] suddenly collapses on herself!
    Indentured Algontherine II has been destroyed by The Prowling Panther.
    Indentured Algontherine II implodes and your body is instantly torn apart by the unstable reality of
    the Aetherways.
    The vortex below Indentured Algontherine II fades away.
    You have been slain by misadventure.
    The mortal threads of your being severed, you scream in agony as the Divine spark within you enfolds
    your body with scorching flames.

    image
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne

    image
  • edited May 2017
    Hmm I'm not sure if your tracking bleeding right. In that first log Indoril hit you four times with noose once with there passives and you didn't clot or use any mana outside what I assume is a ticking defense like metawake? Until you got the you are bleeding message.

    Then I dont see anoher clot attempt until another you are bleeding message and then after you cure haemophilla much later in the fight. It looks like the bleedings building up and your clotting it down in bursts instead of clotting it down gradually.

    Hard to tell without bleed on your prompt but if I were you I'd check my system is clotting. Try getting someone to hit you and do mmconfig gagclot off and see if your recognisng it right?
  • I got Falmiis to send me his POV (thanks) for a set of Nekotai Surge/Killer cycles that I managed to do:

    https://pastebin.com/MbxRT5Sj

    Same stuff from my POV:

    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/7xJ7lVNX

    Putting this here to look back at in more detail later.

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    Veyils said:
    Hmm I'm not sure if your tracking bleeding right. In that first log Indoril hit you four times with noose once with there passives and you didn't clot or use any mana outside what I assume is a ticking defense like metawake? Until you got the you are bleeding message.

    Then I dont see anoher clot attempt until another you are bleeding message and then after you cure haemophilla much later in the fight. It looks like the bleedings building up and your clotting it down in bursts instead of clotting it down gradually.

    Hard to tell without bleed on your prompt but if I were you I'd check my system is clotting. Try getting someone to hit you and do mmconfig gagclot off and see if your recognisng it right?
    Hmm. I see myself at 692 bleed and 821 bleed early in the log. I don't know why I didn't clot then? As I mentioned before somewhere, I don't let mmf clot be below 50% mana...especially when there's a toadcurser among you. I also see a tiny (e!) in the middle there while eating sparkleberry. I think maybe herbbane messed it up?

    When I ran into nature veil, I was only bleeding for 63 health. Let's see. Bardsong (I'm guessing spidercantiga and bloodycaps), shadowchord+nightsweats (what is that spider bites hitting me with shadowchord?), redcap, twist -- and I'm up to 875 bleed.

    spiderbites, twist, unlucky herbbanes on my chervil, ecology pet sting, spider bites again, and I'm up to 1593 bleed. I really don't know where that bleed is coming from, but I cured Indo's bleed way before it was just you + Tarken.

    It looks like I got extremely unlucky with vomiting and herbbane in that 1st log. Brownie putting me offbal also triggered vomiting unfortunately.

    image
  • You're eating chervil for clotting. Does mmf still allow the simultaneous curing of bleeding with chervil and clotting?
    Also you're almost always under haemophilia.
    I'm not sure why we're debating Maligorn's attempts to clot -- doing so would just get him killed sooner.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • Just in the log where I got the kill.

    I had a look at myside and compared it to yours. You didn't focus to eat dust to cure haemo so the bleed built up as well.

    I enter, hit you a bit, haemo is on very early. You cure off vomiting and relapsing first then haemo. Its why you clot a big clumb of bleed in one go and take a big dive in mana. Then you heal up to full and cure everyhing.

    You then get chased and hit with haemo and blindness roughly the same time, while you have herb bane on. You try and cure blindness leaving the haemo on.

    Your better off curing the haemo earlier and clotting more frequently than doing it in one big lump. It lets you spread your mana healing over a longer time than getting hit with a massive burst.

    Like it'd be better to clot for 150 bleed on each attack I do than waiting and clotting for 1000 in one go.

This discussion has been closed.