New Round of Changes

CyndarinAscendsCyndarinAscends Member Posts: 1,461 Transcendent
ANNOUNCE NEWS #2586
Date: 4/29/2016 at 16:32
From: Ieptix the Anomaly
To : Everyone
Subj: Upcoming Changes

I'll be releasing the following updates to warriors this coming Monday, 
based on the recent Knighthood special report: 

o Remove the current effects of the calcise and dendroxin poisons.
o Change cavalier maul to 2 critically wounded limbs, 2 heavily wounded 
limbs, and 1 mutilated limb. We'll continue with tweaking the 
requirements here if needed. 
o Change Cavalier guard to attack a random limb, dealing wounds.
o Remove third-person message from assess.
o Remove balance costs from wounds/wounds simple.
o I'll be adding a global scaling factor for knight damage that I can 
tweak in game, allowing for quick/easier adjustments to damage. 
o Increase the ice curing delay for mutilated limbs/critical wounds. 
Will be monitoring this to ensure it's not unduly harsh. 
o Scale up writhe time from impale based on gut wounds.
o Re-scale everything wounding up by 5x (e.g. max 100 wounds, etc.)
o Following from the previous point, change 2h wounds to deal extra 
wounds over 1h per round. We'll start at 12 wounds per hit, and adjust 
from there as needed. 
o Increase bleeding from pureblade carve, scaling to wounds.
o Change blademaster's stab to a 1h modifier.
o Remiss changed to deal up to two affs, along with a short stun when 
the effect lands. 
o Make pyrotoxin afflict with burns even when the target has the frost 
defence, though at a reduced amount. 
o Change haymaker to a damage attack scaling with total wounds.
o Change damaged limb symptom lines to indicate which limb is damaged.
o Make bonecrusher smashleg bruising scale steeper with wounds.
o Change pulp to not be a set damage increase based on wounds, but 
instead have it scale up continuously with wounds. 
o Tweak up bruising amounts overall.
o Remove relapsing; change anerod to cause a timed delay (4-6s) of the 
last poison the target was hit with before anerod. 
o Reduce bleeding needed for exsanguinate, but add the internalbleeding 
aff as a requirement. These will be adjusted as needed. 
o Add a new modifier to pureblade that splits the attack's damage 
between health and mana. 

o We'll also be updating the flavour lines for most of the modifiers, 
though these will not be immediately included with the above changes. 
Thanks go out to Rivius for his contributions of these new updated 
lines. 


Additonally, the following general changes will be added or moved out of
testing: 

o Current focus abilities and beast curing will be removed, replaced 
with a handful of new abilities. See announce post 2572 for details on 
how the new focus abilities work. 
o Telekinesis throatlock will be changed to deal anorexia.
o Telekinesis leglock will be removed.
o Ablaze, shivering, and frozen will be converted to overhaul 
afflictions. 
o Shivering and frozen will be cured by eating dust.
o Ablaze will be cured by applying ice to the BODY.
o Burns will be cured by applying ice to the BODY, or any application of
ice that also cured wounds. 
o Tempinsanity will be cured by slush. Every sip of slush will cure some
insanity, though at reduced amounts if an affliction is being cured. 
Tempinsanity will be focusable. 
o Timewarp will be cured by steam. Every hit of steam will cure some 
timewarp, though at reduced amounts if an affliction is being cured. 
Timewarp will be focusable. 
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Comments

  • CyndarinAscendsCyndarinAscends Member Posts: 1,461 Transcendent
    edited April 2016
    I'm excited for burns to start working again! They've been virtually a nonfactor since the overhaul, so this is a great change. 

    Against my better judgement, I caved to somewhat partisan complaints about Pyros/warriors (apparently pyros and only pyros should not stack with other guilds. Weird!) but ultimately I think it leaves Pyros in a good place so I'm a happy envoy. Compromise etc etc etc.

    TK focus changes kind of suck, I'm not really sure what to do with Throatlock. Was a necessary change though and not a huge deal. 

    I like how Tempinsanity and timewarp have been updated. 
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    @Ieptix - Are all these loaded up in the overhaul arena for testing?

    I know some of them are (like burns etc) but I'd like to be able to test things are working as I'm updating. I was planning on trying to update stuff this weekend anyway.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Any thoughts on when monks will be changed to the new cures?
    image
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,615 Transcendent
    edited April 2016
    In comparison to focus mind, how much timewarp and insanity is cured by slush and steam respectively? How much of a reduction will there be with affs?
    Will these affs have gmcp vars with them? Will we be able to tell how much warp and insanity we have with the gmcp info?

    Also, @Ieptix , there's a little typo with the gmcp messages for mutilated right limbs. They are currently being spelled as 'mutlitated'.
    Post edited by Rivius on
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,403 Transcendent
    Ssaliss said:
    Any thoughts on when monks will be changed to the new cures?
    We're still working on monks... slowly. >.>

  • TwytchTwytch Member Posts: 485 Expert
    Related, but which of the old cures are now completely unused? All I can think of is antidote, but I'm not sure if I'm missing anything.
    See you in Sapience.
  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 867 Adept
    edited April 2016
    What wrong with the effects of calcise and dendroxin? And what will be the new ones?
    Post edited by Rolsand on
    whatever
  • DemartelDemartel Member Posts: 441 Virtuoso
    Could calcise and dendroxin just be made to not apply to weapons and still maintain functionality for use in spike pits? I completely understand their need for removal as a weapon poison, but it seems extreme to remove them entirely.
  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 867 Adept
    Demartel said:
    Could calcise and dendroxin just be made to not apply to weapons and still maintain functionality for use in spike pits? I completely understand their need for removal as a weapon poison, but it seems extreme to remove them entirely.

    so the two will be only used for spike pits right if so that would be pretty cool.
    whatever
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    There are other uses of poisons, including (but not limited to) beast spit and ecology fetishes. 
  • DemartelDemartel Member Posts: 441 Virtuoso
    Yeah, it seems to me that the only real thing needing to be done is make it not applicable to weapons. They are not bad poisons outside the wounding mechanic.
  • CiaranCiaran Member Posts: 771 Mythical
    I feel like I owe it to the admin after being extemely negative about many of their balance changing proposals.

    I really like these changes.  They display a certain amount of common sense, and desire to find the simpler solution, that historically has been lacking in many admin driven balance adjustments.

    I think lessons have been learned, and I'm cautiously optimistic with this new direction!

    Go admin! :)
    To me you're forever the kick runner from 3 years ago, the guy who does domoths when no one is online and whines that he's got no competition, and the guy that use to only turn up to fights when the numbers favoured him.
  • HaghanHaghan Member Posts: 30 Capable
    Rolsand said:
    What wrong with the effects of calcise and dendroxin? And what will be the new ones?
    Calcise and Dedroxin had two problems.

    The biggest was that they consumed ice balance, the same as wounds. Curing the damaged limbs stopped you from curing wounds, allowing them to build. It was easily a no brainer and a 'best choice' poison. It was essentially adding an extra wound in the wound race.

    A second, but far lesser factor (in fact only theoretical), was that they could both hit twice. With other poisons, putting the same poison on both weapons increases the chance to land the affliction you want, but risks wasting the second poisoning attempt if the first hits. (exception: breaking through teas and such).  With those two, a second poisoning is not redundant, so you can more easily spam poisons without  having to mix it up for maximum effect. You are far less likely to 'waste' a calcise of dendroxin hit on reduncancy.
  • LeolaminsLeolamins Member Posts: 351 Fabled
    Even with Calcise and Dedroxin, Warriors were struggling. Don't understand how this change will bring warriors back into balance.

    image

    06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!

  • CiaranCiaran Member Posts: 771 Mythical
    They can now tweak warrior wounding upwards, and warriors can now use other venoms. So it's a double boost (providing they tweak warriors' wounding to a more dangerous level).

    Without changing the venoms then they couldn't tweak warrior wounding up as much, and they would be stuck using always calcise and dendoxin. Booooooring.
    To me you're forever the kick runner from 3 years ago, the guy who does domoths when no one is online and whines that he's got no competition, and the guy that use to only turn up to fights when the numbers favoured him.
  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    Honestly, I'm just excited to see the numbers to to out of a hundred for more fine grain control than the one to twenty setting.
    image
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,615 Transcendent
    edited May 2016
    That was the whole point. So if warriors are still struggling now, we can adjust how much wounding they do or how much ice cures to give it a nice balanced flow. It was hard to do that when it was just 1-2 wounds. Calcise and dendroxin complicated adjusting things because it was just another thing to stack onto the ice balance and made balancing wounding very hairy. It'll take some testing to see if the new numbers are okay, but now we have the option to tweak them, where we didn't before.
    That said, I kinda wish ice cured 4 instead of 5, but we'll see how things go for now.

    Ultimately, it was agreed that if any abilities needed updating after calcise and dendroxin were removed, we can take care of those. So for example, ecologists can get a new move in their fetishes that give limb breaks etc. 

    Spike pits losing calcise and dendroxin is a thing, but I don't really know people to lay spike pits that often. And with CLIMB ROCKS, most people can continue climbing out of a pit despite being hit by those poisons just fine. And by the time they were out, they already cured out enough in most cases. It's not really that huge of a loss in the end.
    Post edited by Rivius on
  • CyndarinAscendsCyndarinAscends Member Posts: 1,461 Transcendent
    Warriors were not struggling with calcise spam. You were either crippled or they built wounds without trying since parry barely works and rebounding isn't a thing.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    edited May 2016
    The issue was that they couldn't ever (solo) kill you doing this, so it was just a spammy gimmick for group fights that anyone with two swords (so, anyone) could pull off. Effective for sure, but bad design. 
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    When I played around as AL with calcise spam, I could build really easily and kill people 1v1. I did so against @Cyndarin for example. 

    When I tested with @Rivius, there was a significant difference between using calcise/dendroxin and not using it. I'm pretty sure he could have solo killed me with those two poisons where as without them, he didn't really make a dent. I agree that ice curing 5 wounds means warriors may still need help building, but without calcise/dendroxin adding, there could be creative uses of poisons to help with the building. Plus the ease of adjustibility in play now is significant. 

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 867 Adept
    edited May 2016
    Even if we take out calcise and dendroxin and add other stuff to warriors I don't really think it will change anything in a positive way.
    Post edited by Rolsand on
    whatever
  • LeolaminsLeolamins Member Posts: 351 Fabled
    I hope I get proven wrong. These changes lack a plan and are changes that are being done on the hope that they work. I suspect we have 6 months of still flapping around to make very little change.

    image

    06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!

  • CyndarinAscendsCyndarinAscends Member Posts: 1,461 Transcendent
    The majority of these came from the envoys through a special report, as a note. They aren't just admin changes hoping for the best. 
  • LeolaminsLeolamins Member Posts: 351 Fabled
    No I wasn't talking about admin. I was talking about envoys hoping for the best.

    image

    06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!

  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,615 Transcendent
    Well every report had a specific plan and purpose to it. Things aren't going to be perfect immediately and we'll need to test and adjust. If you have issues or suggestions, you're free to make them. We can continue to recommend changes through envoys. The fact that this report happened in the first place shows there's people listening.
  • TremulaTremula Banished Quasiroyal Member Posts: 2,543 Transcendent
    Will pyrotoxin become the new calcise/dendro in that burns will be taking ice to heal? 
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    It's possible, the difference is that pyrotoxin doesn't prevent you from attacking (vis damagedlimbs) or keep you from standing (via damagedlegs) so it's not as necessary to cure

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,769 Transcendent
    And being completely divorced from envoys, but talking to one who was deeply involved in the report, even I'm bothered by the assumption that was all just thrown together with no plan or thought.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 581 Master
    edited May 2016
    Tremula said:
    Will pyrotoxin become the new calcise/dendro in that burns will be taking ice to heal? 
    I am thinking no. Applying any ice will cure some burns automatically, so there is no real purpose in focusing low levels of burns, people will cure those as a byproduct of curing wounds.

    I think the overall changes might be interesting, we will see how bad some of it is.

    I will say that the overhaul has made curing considerably worse in several areas, but I have a thing I am writing for this sort of stuff.

    EDIT: We have a metric crapton of auto stacking, which is terrible. Paralysis, frozen, shivering, and truehearing def are now all the same bal? This sort of stacking is terrible, but requires punishing people by using focus to select things (except truehearing, which means the other affs sit there).
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    The concern with pyrotoxin was specifically brought up when it was first suggested, resulting in the abovementioned compromise. 
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