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Helping Us Help Newbies!

EstarraEstarra
in Ideas
I just wanted to generally ask for ideas on how to help newbies directly out of the Portal of Fate. The biggest challenge on retaining true newbies is getting them into the game. Looking for small tweaks we can do rather than sweeping changes!
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Comments

  • TullyTully
    Wonder if you should send a person directly to their home nexus instead of out of the Portal...
    [BANNERCODE]
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    But it's a rite of passage to come out of the Portal and go up.

    All the way.

    Depriving true newbies of their trip to the Fulcrux area followed by the "Uhh, where am I?" question...
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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    "What, no GREETing for me? How rude!"
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Free immolation for those with Grace of Innocence would help somewhat.

    Sometimes when bringing a newbie to Astral, a random goat comes in and one hits them.

    Nobody likes having to wait long periods of time after just joining the game and dying.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • EstarraEstarra
    I like the idea of free immolation. Is that abusable though?
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  • RagniliffRagniliff
    Grace of Innocence is lost at level 20, isn't it? Or level 30 now, with the Newton change? It requires you to get the corpse, then bring it to a nexus. That's pretty hard to make much abuse of - certainly, it is much easier to abuse Grace of Innocence itself.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    No more abusable than the free immolation construct (which works on everyone regardless of level).
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  • TalanTalan
    Find ways to engage them immediately, not a list of tasks (like the collegiums), but give them a sense that there is something going on which they could be a part of.

    The first time I tried Lusternia, I drowned in the tidal flats and didn't come back for a couple of weeks. I tried some other games, and none were as interesting as Lusternia. I came back for more of what I'd seen and read about the quest stuff. That's what happened to appeal to me and my explorer-puzzle solver nature. I actually wasn't expecting to find such an involved quest as there is, in the newbie area, so it wasn't the first place I looked. Maybe one of the gnomes or finks could yell out, or send a tell, "Hey Jane, get over here! I've got an important mission for you!"

    To apply that concept more broadly, consider presenting clear options to the four archetypes outlined in the Bartle Test (explorer, achiever, killer, socializer), with simple, ground level tasks that can be completed as an intro to getting involved. Achievers can easily be pointed to the low-level tasks in their orgs (collegium power quests), killers to the arenas and sparring (the first thing you need are cures, so you're going to have to learn to use your skills, so you can bash to get gold). Socializers can be pointed towards the forums, to the newbie channel (which could probably do with slightly more chatter in general, so people feel more encouraged to ask questions. I asked a question on newbie the other day, and didn't realize for like 2 hours that I hadn't turned it off), to their org and collegium channels, and to the aetherplex, or nexuses, where people loiter hang out.

    It's a fine line between overwhelming people, and letting them know that the world IS vast and engaging in basically any way they want to be engaged.

    I realize that some people got impatient with the extended opening, but for newbies, particularly ones coming to an IRE game for the first time, or a first time MUDer, it was really good. I have had people that couldn't figure out the basics on their own (like getting items from packs, probing, etc.). It would be cool to get this back from an opt-in standpoint. I also think it's unfortunate to sacrifice that little splash of world history - again, engaging.

    On my second first day in Lusternia, I was a newbie shadowdancer on a new moon in Glom, and Marina hosted a ritual, including me straight away, explaining things to me, and questioning me right away. I was immediately hooked. That's not something the admin can do (except maybe to continue their work in fleshing out and promoting the guilds whose rp is not clearly established), but it's something that all the players who care enough to read and comment in this thread can. It was just kismet for me, but yeah. Make a point of greeting newbs. I've met a couple in Halli in the last week who seem cool. :)
    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    I prefer to think, "Ooh, a rez point."

    It's nice for them too, especially when immolations are free so there is no fear of a pesky Power Minister scolding you.

    (It's also why I would like to just see that construct benefit made permanent for everyone instead of being a construct effect, it's something that is nothing but good really)
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    edited January 2013
    I just don't see a reason for mechanically dissuading someone from helping out other players, whether newblet or established. It's tough to abuse immolation too much since it requires the corpse and then running to the nexus. You may not think 100 power is a lot, but... a couple of immolations in a day starts to raise the number rapidly, and organizations do not like to see regular negative power income.

    Newbie-conglut might be beneficial though. It could be a 10s thing with a short message from the Fates to acclimate them to longer sequences later, too.
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  • TalanTalan
    Yeah, sorry. I hadn't read through this all. Free immolation is definitely going to fix the retention problem.  :{
    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    I think the immolation idea is decent, especially when the overarching idea in Lusternia is "let them pray, it's not that much of a loss and they can get it back easily"

    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Maybe immolations should cost an amount of power equal to that person's circle?

    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EventruEventru
    Talan said:
    Yeah, sorry. I hadn't read through this all. Free immolation is definitely going to fix the retention problem.  :{
    Is that sarcasm?!

    Yeah, I'm pretty skeptical that 'free immolation' is going to fix the problem (not to pick on anyone, but I suspect large swathes of the population just don't care enough to go get newbie corpses to rezz them, some orgs more than others), and only worsens it in low population orgs.

    It also doesn't help if they die in Newton or Lolliprin, or on a higher plane and the only people around are warriors without 'orgbix', etc.

    I think a newbie-variant of conglute addresses that particular problem (newbies dying and having to endure long pray sequences).

    I also don't think this is the venue for 'free immolate for everyone!', Xenthos. *eye*
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Eventru said:
    Talan said:
    Yeah, sorry. I hadn't read through this all. Free immolation is definitely going to fix the retention problem.  :{
    Is that sarcasm?!

    Yeah, I'm pretty skeptical that 'free immolation' is going to fix the problem (not to pick on anyone, but I suspect large swathes of the population just don't care enough to go get newbie corpses to rezz them, some orgs more than others), and only worsens it in low population orgs.

    It also doesn't help if they die in Newton or Lolliprin, or on a higher plane and the only people around are warriors without 'orgbix', etc.

    I think a newbie-variant of conglute addresses that particular problem (newbies dying and having to endure long pray sequences).

    I also don't think this is the venue for 'free immolate for everyone!', Xenthos. *eye*
    That would be why I went on to support the newbie-variant of conglutination, you know!  If you're going to support / present immolation-for-newbies, you might as well do a comprehensive adjustment to help everybody.  If you're not looking to do that, then make a minor change for the newbies which helps them out by easing them into the rougher aspect.
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  • LeradLerad
    Grace of Innocence has to be rejected to bash anywhere outside of newton, right? In which case, free immolations or congluts or faster pray time should be tied to level instead of innocence, because otherwise, they'd just not get the benefit if they made the mistake of giving out-of-newton bashing a try. Granted most of those who do try that are not true newbies, but still.

    I'm sure free immolations isn't going to solve the problem. But I believe it will help. There's a rez achievement for the achievers who feel like running for newbie corpses. For those who don't care about achievements, some will still make the occassional effort if they see a newbie die in an out-of-newton area. Certainly they will make MORE effort than they do now. As it stands, pretty much no one except those who are trying to get the achievement even bother, because as has been said, the effort and cost does not match the penalty the newbie will suffer, from the perspective of an experienced player.

    Just as only making a new mob will not instantly solve our retention problems, neither will free immolations alone make newbies suddenly feel this game is great. But a little extra immolation here and there, plus a bit of extra automated advice/information that isn't intrusive, plus a little extra engagement from players, will all add together to help. Whether or not it should be restricted to newbies only, or given to all players can be argued - afterall, retention problems don't just suddenly disappear with the advent of level 21 or Innocence rejection, and some newbies stay newbies for decidedly long times, depending on their learning rate (the learning curve of IRE games isn't exactly super gentle, too).

  • RagniliffRagniliff
    A few other ideas:

    - If someone has Grace of Innocence and changes guilds, they should get the starter weapon/instrument from the fates that they'd normally receive if they went through the portal as that guild in the first place (claymore/mandolin or whatever).

    But beyond that... it's hard to come up with things that can be coded. Lusternia's game culture has shifted, and it has become less social and more achievement oriented. It's going to be harder for newbies to get attention if everyone is constantly grinding for more quest curios/ikons/whatever, and there is a near limitless number available to collect or too much difficulty in getting what you need.

    I come across a lot of people, especially low might/low level people, complaining that they have nothing to do, but I think what they really mean is that they feel like they can do nothing meaningful or have no useful way to contribute. It's not that there is a lack of things to do - it's that there's a lack of things they can do which matter at all. And I feel like the prevalence of this feeling's only grown with time.

    This is one of the reasons I refuse to do the bard/scholar/pilgrim/power achievements. I feel like they should actually be there for the people who need them.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    edited January 2013
    Estarra said:
    I just wanted to generally ask for ideas on how to help newbies directly out of the Portal of Fate. The biggest challenge on retaining true newbies is getting them into the game. Looking for small tweaks we can do rather than sweeping changes!
    I think you are all being negative nancies. No one solution is going to fix the problem. I know that when I tried an alt and ended up dying, and having to pray, I gave up on playing that alt immediately after.

    Free immolation is one minor tweak to an overreaching problem that has no easy solution. You don't have to be so negative that one tweak isn't going to fix a problem that in reality has no easy solution.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • MoiMoi
    edited January 2013
    My newbie help wishlist:
    -Newbie-Conglut, like Eventru suggested. This stops newbies from getting put off by long pray times if they end up dying repeatedly.
    -Give freshmen novices the starter claymore/lute upon joining a warrior/bard guild respectively. This eliminates the need for them to find a weapon/instrument themselves.
    -Make newbies spawn with their tunic/trousers already worn. No more awkward, "Ok, first off, you're naked so you'll want to check your backpack..." during novice introductions!
    -Expand Innocence to allow hunting in newbie-friendly non-Newton areas. I recomend Nexus Worlds, the Tidal Flats and the Nature Reserve, personally. Achaea has like four newbie areas, which goes a long ways towards eliminating the boring initial grind where you start getting sick of killing finks.
    -Also, portal exits to those areas if they get added. Maybe not for the nexus world one, though.
    -This one is a bit out of the "small tweak" range, but how about accelerated lesson learning for people at level 1? I know that I've had novices get sick of learning 15 of this, then 15 more, then 7 of that, blah, blah and beg to go do something else instead. Maybe let them go at mentor speed without requiring that they get a mentor? Or even faster?
    -Uhh, I guess I'll add more as I think of them.
  • SakrSakr
    Why not think a little bit more outside the portals?

    Let the ambassador set up messages for collegiums. These messages would be automated to tick every so often, and would give out helpful tips for novices even if there is nobody there.

    For example, we get Ardrak to speak on the collegium channel with tips or hints such as helpful scrolls, or things to do.
    This would help with keeping player interest outside of newton, especially if you have some places where people don't tend to speak much on the aether. Also, some of the things listed here could help, from the old forum thread "Things I wish I knew as a novice": http://www.lusternia.com/node/29193

    Also, another option would be for different npc instructors to teach how to use their skills. The lessons would be saved by the guild admin. Not just learning lessons, but actually having something like:

    NPC A says, "Oh, you've come to learn more about music? I heard that a nifty setup for your chords..."

    This would help low population guilds,
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Yes, I had suggested the ability to be able to set up the guild tutor to be able to actually teach the suggested lesson set to newbies (and it could also do it in a faster time period instead of 15-at-a-time).  It could be done with set messages to give more information about what exactly the newbie is learning.
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  • LlandrosLlandros
    Would something like one free death while you have the grace of innocence be possible? Like when you hit 0 hp you are zapped back to the portals instead of dying by the fates with a warning that you just got your one get out of death free card?

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  • MorshothMorshoth

    I still think that having that achievement-like system for advancement could help a lot, both for new players, and old players.  It would give novices something to learn/work on, even if nobody is around to tell them.

    If I had a list of tasks when I first started that prompted me to do it, rather than reading a scroll, I know I would have been a lot happier.

    Just copy the achievement system for it, and you'd be able to do like TASK VIALS and it will give you more details.

    Also include the manual tasks option, which gives guilds a chance for interaction and such.

  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    edited January 2013
    Eventru said:
    As just kind of a random thought, in lieu of free immolation, people with Grace of Innocence have an abbreviated pray time, or more or less conglute to the Portal of Fate?

    If the frustration is long pray times for newbies getting into the game, relying on immolates might be rough. Small populations only make that worse for some cities, and I think most people go 'Eh, it's a newbie, they didn't lose much' when they see them die.
    This is a much better idea then free immolation. Immolation is tied to achievements (someone will probably end up abusing that if its free), but having a newbie Conglunt (for those under level 30 or something) is a good idea and not very abuseable.

    I know I probably wouldn't have given up on my Cacophony alt when I died to a spectral boy.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Idea: make newbies immune to weather. Their newbie tunic is pretty warm, but still doesn't help very much when they're gathering bards and scholars.

    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    oh, and Grace of Innocence should protect against random aggressive things like astral beasts and dominators.

    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • SakrSakr
    Can there be help files as well for the newbie channel? Just like a collegium, guild, city, order or clan channel has.

    example:
    nhelp
    Help Index for the Newbies
    ---------------------------------------
    Tips for descriptions
    How to say no to strangers and their manses
    Where to go after Newton
    ...
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