I tentatively like this new idea. Especially being able to trade goop and still get it (somewhat reliably) in game.
So, 10,000 newgoop would be the equivalent of 1 currentgoop? 1000 a day being low or high depends on how many will roughly drop from things, such as genies.
Do you have any idea what you would set the cap on the amount of goop you can get through these things might be?
I was thinking 1000 goop/RL day. Is that reasonable?
I'm just looking at the numbers you suggested in the OP and that sounds fine. It doesn't solve the problem of certain outliers having more than 100 maps getting lots of coins, but at least they're not adding hundreds of thousand of gold into the economy as well.
I don't even think it's necessary to give anything extra with the ur'traps right now. Divine and silver cookies are actually great and before throttling, golden cookies were very valuable too. I still think the golden ones should be changed in some way.
Lets you buy artis that are different skins mostly. AETHERGOOP LIST.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
As Dylara said mostly reskins, but there are a few goop only things (like the bubblix to Aquagoria among a few other things)
I mostly took at the stuff and dream about the reskin stuff I'm going to buy, I do forget the unique stuff. >.>
Would be nice to be able to trade my goop, or trade for it, for sure!
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Just to put things into perspective, with the current numbers proposed you would need on average 15 or so maps to the cap. Let's say you have 20 just to be safe, coins aside. This will generate what is effectively 0.5 credits in the new goop. Currently 20 maps will probably get you around 40k gold, which is more or less a credit on the credit market.
if we're talking 1000 a day total between urtraps/maps/genies/gnewpies/stockings whatever, then it doesn't matter if you have 1 map or 100 maps, you'll only ever get a maximum of 1000.
I'm just breaking it down to numbers that people who don't have maps would understand how this might affect maps without taking into account all of the other things people might have.
Meh, more arbitrary limits on being able to bash or work for resources.
I get the idea, but I feel like there is ways to handle the economy without telling people they are done playing after an hour or two. I am/was one of the biggest bashers, but I get crap for gold very quickly. I spend more time doing maps, which also make gold slower, than i do hunting now. Now we want to replace gold with something else that is also capped.
Instead of paying for endurance, the game just tells you to get out now I guess.
The day you can't really hunt/influence/work your way up is the day Lusternia just won't have new players. Why play a game that potentially tells you in 3 RL years you can be a normal person if you didn't bring cash?
That is my view, because that is where I did, but we have a high barrier of entry still, why do we want to make it harder to get past it?
I think that if credit prices drop, the barriers to entry will drop, not rise. It'll make it easier to hunt/influence/work your way to more skills and credits. As long as the gold throttle is in the right place, and doesn't affect bashing beyond the outliers, it should help prevent the continued and unstopped rise of credit prices, and hopefully reverse it over the long term.
The replacement of gold with goop specifically is targeted at artifacts (or rewards) that generate gold out of nothing. Like presents. And as goop, those rewards will still potentially lead to faster bashing, due to bashing artifacts that can be bought with goop. The people who bought artifacts with real life cash will continue to potentially get richer and stronger over time (even if it's a very long time), for doing nothing more than having bought that artifact. The new currency (which is now suggested to be goop) changes that are being suggested doesn't affect gold generation from bashing and influencing one bit. Gold gotten from trades will increase in value if the value of gold itself rises. But that will likely take some time before it happens.
If there's anything that limits the ability to work for resources, and get ahead in the game without paying cash, it's the gold throttle. Take a look at that, and see if it is too low a limit. Give feedback. Estarra has literally changed it once already, and it was also explicitly stated in the announce post that further tweaks can and will be made if needed. Show that it is negatively affecting the ability of players to bash for gold to get ahead, and change the throttle limit to something that won't. As it is, newbies and midbies, the people who are working to get ahead, are hardly going to be making that much gold anyway. If they could bash at that speed and rate, they would be in another genre of players already. But I don't know, maybe midbies and newbies CAN bash so much gold so quickly, and are getting shafted to all hell by the throttle. If that's the case, then we can look at the numbers and change it to whatever is more suitable.
I'm confused. Would I need to use goop to use my tradeskill, or is that just new ways to spend goop? Would we be able to "melt" goop items like potions and candies into goop to repurpose them? ..are cooks going to be able to make wax lips/mints/fireballs?
How do people who can't afford genies/presents/maps get goop under this system? Can we trade credits/dingbats for goop?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Maybe with the candies, regular cooks make 6-packs and spatula wielders make 12-packs
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Ooh, trophies. Not as something that you really spend money on directly, but maybe something to display in your manse?
I mentioned achievement typecasts in another thread, but this could be cool as well. If you get the top duelling achievement you might get a platinum trophy or whatever which can be displayed in a manse room. Maybe trophies would have different types and only trophies of the same type can be displayed in a room? If the system is straight-forward enough, admin might be able to award trophies for the random games they run, orgs/guilds might be able to petition to have their own added for them to hand out.
Again it doesn't remove gold directly, so it might be a lower priority, but rooms to display the trophies in would take some money out. Orgs/Guilds might also have to pay a significant fee to get a trophy added to their list and an additional fee to award them.
You could put one in each organisation and players could list a limited number of unique things per day. Could function like a typical mmo trading post, have a tax on sales through the system(part disappearing, part going to the org), maybe some form of undercutting check (probably complicated, but like listing could run a check to ensure you've paid the comm cost plus a percentage profit then the tax is factored in), and with the limited number of things you can post a shop will always be better and offer you more control.
You buy an obelisk(significant gold cost), drop it in your manse, then touch the obelisk to initiate a once per day challenge. (probably with a further gold cost to attempt the challenge which would take a decent amount of your gold for the day)
One might be a maze challenge, you get dropped inside a maze and need to get out within the time limit.
Another could be a bashing challenge, drops you into an isolated room alone and spawns mobs at a certain tick, maybe speeding up over time and, if possible, maybe the mobs could be tougher than normal. Might have different difficulty levels which changes the selection of mobs
Knowledge challenges could be a thing, though they could be automated so it's not the best once the questions get out.
Not sure of rewards, the only thing coming to mind is some xp/essence (but enough to be worth it)
Item customization for gold. So you can turn all your stuff into special unique stuff, but it has no new functionality. Make use of our new awesome in game customization system. Set some rules like no super magical crowns of endless magical might that radiate death and sorrow. Boom, done.
Make it super expensive, like 500,000 per item that can decay. A million+ per artifact. People will buy it.
Promise you people will buy it. The only downside is it could overwhelm the admin. So roll it into the design approval system that we already have.
Another possibility, to expand on it a little, would be to not limit it to one per day, but to give out a reward to the person with the best record. Rewards given out once per week. That way, you'd have several chances to get a good score, and several chances to drain gold out of the economy. The reward could be a unique (relatively non-combattive) artifact. It'd need to have some boost though in order to encourage people to get it (although the boost would not, of course, be active during this challenge).
Or, the winner could get half the fees taken by the challenge.
Actually, make it an arena-like where resources used inside are refunded, and the weekly record-holders are awarded power (that can break whatever their limit is) and are allowed to choose a free supernumerary in the related domoth that expires once the next challengers are awarded (even if the winner happens to not be a demigod), plus their org gets a small power bump to encourage them to encourage challengers.
Ick. We really don't need a new version of ur'traps, maps, whatever with new unique artifacts/free domoth powers/etc.
I don't foresee one time obelisks to be a significant drain on the gold piles. Rich people will buy new THING once, and then compete with other rich people for EXTRA SPECIAL THING. New mechanic, new headache, new problems. No thanks.
@Lerad: My concern is our tendency not to make adjustments in a timely fashion. Right now is worse than later I think. While credits are higher you can bash about 2 a day if you really wanted... before taking forever to get more. If credits were 20K per, you could bash 5 a day. Could we just make the gold throttle based on credit market prices perhaps?
Item customization for gold. So you can turn all your stuff into special unique stuff, but it has no new functionality. Make use of our new awesome in game customization system. Set some rules like no super magical crowns of endless magical might that radiate death and sorrow. Boom, done.
Make it super expensive, like 500,000 per item that can decay. A million+ per artifact. People will buy it.
Promise you people will buy it. The only downside is it could overwhelm the admin. So roll it into the design approval system that we already have.
Good idea, As long as this doesn't change the rules (allowing nearly anything as long as it keeps the noun) for the 50cr customization.
Rolling it into the design system might just overload the reviewers. the current customization (that is, emailing. Not sure how the IG system works) doesn't check for quality really. I'm not sure it even checks for spelling in some cases... It is just the admin's time in setting the description.
Comments
So, 10,000 newgoop would be the equivalent of 1 currentgoop? 1000 a day being low or high depends on how many will roughly drop from things, such as genies.
I don't even think it's necessary to give anything extra with the ur'traps right now. Divine and silver cookies are actually great and before throttling, golden cookies were very valuable too. I still think the golden ones should be changed in some way.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Would be nice to be able to trade my goop, or trade for it, for sure!
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I get the idea, but I feel like there is ways to handle the economy without telling people they are done playing after an hour or two. I am/was one of the biggest bashers, but I get crap for gold very quickly. I spend more time doing maps, which also make gold slower, than i do hunting now. Now we want to replace gold with something else that is also capped.
Instead of paying for endurance, the game just tells you to get out now I guess.
The day you can't really hunt/influence/work your way up is the day Lusternia just won't have new players. Why play a game that potentially tells you in 3 RL years you can be a normal person if you didn't bring cash?
That is my view, because that is where I did, but we have a high barrier of entry still, why do we want to make it harder to get past it?
The replacement of gold with goop specifically is targeted at artifacts (or rewards) that generate gold out of nothing. Like presents. And as goop, those rewards will still potentially lead to faster bashing, due to bashing artifacts that can be bought with goop. The people who bought artifacts with real life cash will continue to potentially get richer and stronger over time (even if it's a very long time), for doing nothing more than having bought that artifact. The new currency (which is now suggested to be goop) changes that are being suggested doesn't affect gold generation from bashing and influencing one bit. Gold gotten from trades will increase in value if the value of gold itself rises. But that will likely take some time before it happens.
If there's anything that limits the ability to work for resources, and get ahead in the game without paying cash, it's the gold throttle. Take a look at that, and see if it is too low a limit. Give feedback. Estarra has literally changed it once already, and it was also explicitly stated in the announce post that further tweaks can and will be made if needed. Show that it is negatively affecting the ability of players to bash for gold to get ahead, and change the throttle limit to something that won't. As it is, newbies and midbies, the people who are working to get ahead, are hardly going to be making that much gold anyway. If they could bash at that speed and rate, they would be in another genre of players already. But I don't know, maybe midbies and newbies CAN bash so much gold so quickly, and are getting shafted to all hell by the throttle. If that's the case, then we can look at the numbers and change it to whatever is more suitable.
How do people who can't afford genies/presents/maps get goop under this system? Can we trade credits/dingbats for goop?
Maybe with the candies, regular cooks make 6-packs and spatula wielders make 12-packs
I mentioned achievement typecasts in another thread, but this could be cool as well. If you get the top duelling achievement you might get a platinum trophy or whatever which can be displayed in a manse room. Maybe trophies would have different types and only trophies of the same type can be displayed in a room?
If the system is straight-forward enough, admin might be able to award trophies for the random games they run, orgs/guilds might be able to petition to have their own added for them to hand out.
Again it doesn't remove gold directly, so it might be a lower priority, but rooms to display the trophies in would take some money out. Orgs/Guilds might also have to pay a significant fee to get a trophy added to their list and an additional fee to award them.
You could put one in each organisation and players could list a limited number of unique things per day. Could function like a typical mmo trading post, have a tax on sales through the system(part disappearing, part going to the org), maybe some form of undercutting check (probably complicated, but like listing could run a check to ensure you've paid the comm cost plus a percentage profit then the tax is factored in), and with the limited number of things you can post a shop will always be better and offer you more control.
You buy an obelisk(significant gold cost), drop it in your manse, then touch the obelisk to initiate a once per day challenge. (probably with a further gold cost to attempt the challenge which would take a decent amount of your gold for the day)
One might be a maze challenge, you get dropped inside a maze and need to get out within the time limit.
Another could be a bashing challenge, drops you into an isolated room alone and spawns mobs at a certain tick, maybe speeding up over time and, if possible, maybe the mobs could be tougher than normal. Might have different difficulty levels which changes the selection of mobs
Knowledge challenges could be a thing, though they could be automated so it's not the best once the questions get out.
Not sure of rewards, the only thing coming to mind is some xp/essence (but enough to be worth it)
Make it super expensive, like 500,000 per item that can decay. A million+ per artifact. People will buy it.
Promise you people will buy it. The only downside is it could overwhelm the admin. So roll it into the design approval system that we already have.
Or, the winner could get half the fees taken by the challenge.
I don't foresee one time obelisks to be a significant drain on the gold piles. Rich people will buy new THING once, and then compete with other rich people for EXTRA SPECIAL THING. New mechanic, new headache, new problems. No thanks.
Rolling it into the design system might just overload the reviewers. the current customization (that is, emailing. Not sure how the IG system works) doesn't check for quality really. I'm not sure it even checks for spelling in some cases... It is just the admin's time in setting the description.