New Newbie Tour

EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 830 Creator

We have redone the newbie tour. It is much different than what it was before, being that we aren't trying to insert you into an RP scenario; rather, there is a brief discussion of what type of game Lusternia is and a couple of quick walk throughs. You are then given a lamp which you can rub and answers some common questions. Basically, we want to try to convince those not familiar with MUDs to give it a try and do get into the live game as soon as possible and start on the Newton or college quests.

Please check out the tour in the Lusternia client (http://client.lusternia.com/) as that's what newbies will use and see how it works. I think it's important for guides to at least go through it once to see what newbies will experience. Please give us feedback!

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Comments

  • DylaraDylara Member Posts: 1,287 Transcendent
    Just went through it, must say I definitely like this one better. It seems informative, although I do miss the Shadow, maybe change the Orc hanging out there to a A shadowy figure? 

    Very nice to give the newbies some steam and dust too. :)



    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • ShaddusShaddus His Imperial Altness Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,652 Transcendent
    I like how quickly the new intro gets you into the game. The only real problem I found with it was that the very first part seemed to drone on about "what is a text game", and turned me off the intro a bit. I'd like to respectfully suggest that this might be changed, keeping a small part to explain that there are no graphics but that RP is important (maybe mention IC and OOC here?), and maybe a small section on what makes Lusternia amazing, be it the history or the sheer amount of possibilities for growth and advancement.


    The lamp is a nice touch, and seemed to have a lot of possible information. Kudos on that.

    The orc bit was amusing, but I'd like to suggest that this part of used to introduce the prompt. Let the player take a bit of damage from the orc, then after the orc is slain and the player gets their gear, then they can heal the damage.
    If I'm not good enough for Lusternia, then it is no longer good enough for me.
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Agreed that there needs to be more immersion. Imo Uncharted 2 does the best intro I've seen. You wake up dangling off a cliff bleeding to death and are coached through using basic commands to save yourself. Incredibly gripping while being very informative.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Member Posts: 1,889 Transcendent
    I'm going to write out what I'm thinking as I go through the intro. I never use the webclient, either, so I'll have things to say about that too, I'm sure.

    1) Feels kind of awkward filling out all this character creation information in a form before the intro starts, especially since part of the intro should give you the additional information you need to make these choices. Why is this here first? Also, I see Mag's still the "City of Evil", boo.

    2) Yay, the text is grey and not white, so I can actually continue to do this in the webclient. This is really specific to me, but bright text on black gives me extremely bad migraines. I would've switched to doing it in Mudlet at this point if the colors were too much for me.

    3) I'd probably be falling asleep while it slowly explains to me what a text game is, if I wasn't busy frantically trying to find the mute button for the music.

    4) Can we have it ask "have you ever played a text-based game before?" when you start, and only get that explanation if the answer is no?

    5) The prompt needs to be on by default. This was a complaint I had in the old intro, and it still stands here. I understand that the webclient has health bars and stuff, but not everyone is playing on the webclient, and I firmly believe that the intro should not be created only with this client in mind. 

    6) As above, the map needs to be on, or at least mentioned during the main intro.

    7) I bet I would have to wait a few moments before hitting the orc again, if nearly everything didn't die in one hit for the first 30 or so levels of your existence. This was another big complaint I had about the new player experience in Lusternia these days. Why are newbies so dang strong?! It's so boring to OHKO every fink and gnome you meet.

    8) Ok, the green text for guild selection and lamp questions is killing me. And the blue for talking. There doesn't seem to be a way to change the background color to be anything but black, so I am now playing with all text selected so my eyes don't fall out. 

    9) Agh!!! Why does looking at a help scroll pop up a window!? I don't want this!

    10) Why does closing that window make a really loud CLACK noise? I thought I muted you.

    11) I've decided I hate the webclient.

    12) I'm annoyed with the client, and I don't know anything about Lusternia from this impersonal introduction, and reading through an endless series of help scrolls/sitting around talking to a lamp doesn't sound very fun, so I quit.


    Ok, so. I don't like it. I think it's less boring than the other one simply because it's shorter, but I don't think it does a very good job of making someone want to play the game.

    I greatly enjoyed Achaea's current introduction. If you haven't played through it, you really should, just to get an idea of a successful intro. It's very well designed and teaches you basic mechanics without feeling like a huge infodump. It makes you want to keep playing by getting you invested in your newbie plot, which you're able to tie up by completing a list of helpful newbie tasks at your leisure. It does not feel like a mind-numbing endless handholding slog (like our introduction before this one) because you aren't trapped in the intro until you finish those tasks. I think this is the sort of thing we should be aiming for with our own introduction. I think the immersion in the world is an important piece that's sorely missed here.

    While I do hate to sound too critical, being honest about how I feel about this intro requires it. I don't think it's good. I'm glad the old one is out, and yes I would be able to get to alting a lot quicker with something like this, but I don't think this is an effective introduction to the game for an honestly new player.
  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 865 Adept
    edited October 2016
    Its kinda funny how we're called the city of evil.
    whatever
  • TremulaTremula Banished Quasiroyal Member Posts: 2,531 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    I haven't tried it yet, but if there isn't an END JOURNEY option I'll probably just never edit this text post and let it sit here ominously as it rings with my disapproval.

    Okay, I lied. By generously using SPEEDUP (until it was the max speed) I managed to complete the newbie intro in less than a minute. Going back and looking over it as if I were a proper newbie, though...

    • Okay, no images. I can work with that. ...I get it, no...yes, it's like Dungeons and Dragons, can I get to that bit?
    • Oh, are there no skills? I just...attack the orc?
    • Okay, the orc is dead in one hit. I guess the starting character is OP.
    • Wait, did I ever select a race? Was that one of the options I missed back in the confusing button mess? I hope it isn't like this on a client like Mudlet.
    • Yeah, I'm just a regular human. Well that's...eh?
    • Oh boy, still the City of Evil. 
    • Yeah, this is...not...
    Okay, maybe I'm just reminiscing fondly about the very old intro I came into, but this is just so cut and dry. There's almost no proper flavour, and the Fates aren't even referenced once. How are you supposed to know who they are when you die if you didn't get their proper introduction?

    I'm sorry, I know a lot of thought probably went into this, but it reads like page 2 of a console game handbook, where you see the button layout and learn how to power on your Playstation. I was not gripped at all, and I feel like a brief synopsis of the history between the Cosmogenesis and the Coming of Estarra would be a better choice, follow it up with something like, "And though the Soulless continue in Their efforts to consume Lusternia, it is brave mortals like you who fight alongside each other and all the beings of the First World, from lowly farmer to divine Elder, to ensure our continued survival."

    Echoing Phoebus, I hate to sound overly critical, but it is my honest opinion.
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Member Posts: 1,889 Transcendent
    Tremula said:
    I haven't tried it yet, but if there isn't an END JOURNEY option I'll probably just never edit this text post and let it sit here ominously as it rings with my disapproval.
    It doesn't need one, all you really do is punch an orc and leave.
  • DylaraDylara Member Posts: 1,287 Transcendent
    Tremula said:
    I haven't tried it yet, but if there isn't an END JOURNEY option I'll probably just never edit this text post and let it sit here ominously as it rings with my disapproval.
    It's so short I was pleasantly surprised to find myself finished.

    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,333 Transcendent
    We also need race selection back if the intro isn't going to explicitly give the option at the end.
  • LavinyaLavinya Former Queen of Snark AustraliaMember Posts: 3,354 Transcendent
    Some thoughts on the intro (browser version):

    - I really like that it's short as an old player, I don't want to spend an hour running around newtons just to get started.
    - There is a lot of missing information. Nothing about races in particular.
    - The ending is abrupt. I didn't actually realise it was over over. By comparison, there is a long spiel about what a text game even is, but basically nothing on how to play one. 
    - I think prompt should default as being on, at least for h/m/e, as well as the map.
    - Race. It's a massive part of the rp and lore of the game. Please don't skip it.
    - Make the orc more like the shadow of old where multiple hits are required, it is more like all the bashing they will encounter past finks/gnomes in newton and it teaches about balance/equilibrium.
    -at the end of the intro, a hint or prompt for HELP WHATNOW and a mention of newbie would also be good. I also never saw a prompt for SPEEDUP, I only saw it on the forums. 



  • UlalahUlalah Member Posts: 86 Adept
    I've seen that this is mentioned a couple times, but I'm mentioning it again: there is no option, as far as I know (and I went through on Mudlet), to select a race. There's no information at all about races, in fact, which is confusing. The entire thing is a bit confusing -- you get put at the Portal of Fate with a lamp? But even the lamp doesn't discuss races and how to pick one!

    It's very good for people who are making alternate characters, but True Newbies might struggle with it. And the race thing is super not good, man; like Lavinya said, race is a huge part of lore/rp, and should be discussed. Not to mention, some places restrict certain races, so knowing that beforehand would be really great (i.e. Magnagora refusing to allow merian, elfen and kepheran races).
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  • EdithEdith Member Posts: 15 Apprentice
    I went through the new intro earlier tonight via the web browser, and as someone who recently came through the previous intro before this one, I don't think it's an improvement.

    I agree with the sentiments that there is an explanation of what text-based games are (which I think is sort of unnecessary - I would think someone who has found the game would already know it's text-based, and don't need the history of their creation), but there is nothing about Lusternia itself. I also agree that the race selection is really bad. And to echo what @Tremula said about there being no mention of the Fates - I think that's a really important piece of information that should remain mentioned.

    In the previous intro, I learned: how to speak, how to use my pack, how to use my vials, how to follow people, how to probe and examine things and where I am, and there were hints on using HELP files. I also enjoyed having to find the shadow as opposed to attacking something that was already there - it gets you introduced to moving around in a game like this, and finding something within the lines of text new players may not be used to.
    With this new intro, I don't interact with my pack, I don't have to speak, I don't have to follow anyone or learn how - instead I'm faced with a lamp that I have to rub and sift through multiple questions for these basics which, when faced with other players welcoming me and telling me to read CGHELP's and how to speak on channels, could be quite overwhelming for truly new people; the basics should already be covered before I'm sent on my way.
    I truly felt it too rushed. "Hi new player! You've learned to move and hit stuff - enjoy the game!"

    In the previous intro there was also a prompt to say hello on CGT and introduce myself - I thought that was really useful, and that seems to have disappeared now too.

    Some of the lamp questions seemed a little odd to me. For example, "How do I tell which organizations I am enemied to?" Why would I, as someone just fresh from the Portal (I think? I missed explanations on the Portal and how I got here) need to know that - I won't be enemied anywhere. If the intent was simply to direct to the STAT/SCORE info, the question should be more suited to a need of the newbie.

    Tl;dr - it's too rushed, too impersonal, with no information on the game or instruction on the basics. I also missed vital components of creating my character. I think the previous intro covered all that was needed.
    Alts will love this - true newbies won't have a clue (as Glomdoring has already seen with newbies not knowing how to follow).
    (Glomdoring): Viravain says, "Edith."
    (Glomdoring): Viravain says, "Learning begins with the self. I charge you to preach My name."
    Raucous corvine laughter sounds out from the canopies of the surrounding forest, echoing eerily through the Wyrden Wood.
    *baptized*
  • XeriaXeria Member Posts: 633 Gifted
    edited October 2016
    teach people how to do lusternian quests. i had to have someone walk me through it on a now suicided alt before i got the hang of it. 9/10 it requires knowledge of lore i didn't even know i needed.
    is dead like the dodo
  • TamashiTamashi Member Posts: 250 Capable
    After going through it myself and taking a look around on the forums, a really simple idea hit me. Perhaps we can reinstate the one that was just removed, as it at least went over the mechanics you'll need in this game. I think the biggest complaint about the newbie area and introduction was because players wanting to make a second character already knew all this and it felt like an elongated waste of time.

    My solution - Bring back other intro, and allow characters to REGISTER while in the introduction. If they are already registered by another character, they gain the option to END JOURNEY, EXIT INTRO, whatever is decided and are prompted as such. This way truly new players go through an introduction that actually teaches, and our returning playerbase just move along.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,762 Transcendent
    Tamashi said:
    After going through it myself and taking a look around on the forums, a really simple idea hit me. Perhaps we can reinstate the one that was just removed, as it at least went over the mechanics you'll need in this game. I think the biggest complaint about the newbie area and introduction was because players wanting to make a second character already knew all this and it felt like an elongated waste of time.

    My solution - Bring back other intro, and allow characters to REGISTER while in the introduction. If they are already registered by another character, they gain the option to END JOURNEY, EXIT INTRO, whatever is decided and are prompted as such. This way truly new players go through an introduction that actually teaches, and our returning playerbase just move along.
    I never liked the previous intro, especially given that I never had it work properly for me. Something always went wrong or broke.

    If we're suggesting bringing back old intros, just bring back the Shallamar one. It does everything this one is supposed to do, but better and clearer.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • VeyilsVeyils Member Posts: 1,442 Mythical
    Kind of interesting that this new tour is really handy and quick for people already familiar with lusty or other IRE games but it's a bit of a flop for true newbies.
  • WeiwaeWeiwae Member, Gods Posts: 443 Divine
    Xeria said:
    teach people how to do lusternian quests. i had to have someone walk me through it on a now suicided alt before i got the hang of it. 9/10 it requires knowledge of lore i didn't even know i needed.
    The lamp directs newbies to KiakodaBabies quest, which teaches you how to do quests.

    What lore are you referring to?
  • WeiwaeWeiwae Member, Gods Posts: 443 Divine
    Edith said:

    With this new intro, I don't interact with my pack, I don't have to speak, I don't have to follow anyone or learn how - instead I'm faced with a lamp that I have to rub and sift through multiple questions for these basics which, when faced with other players welcoming me and telling me to read CGHELP's and how to speak on channels, could be quite overwhelming for truly new people; the basics should already be covered before I'm sent on my way.
    I truly felt it too rushed. "Hi new player! You've learned to move and hit stuff - enjoy the game!"

    In the previous intro there was also a prompt to say hello on CGT and introduce myself - I thought that was really useful, and that seems to have disappeared now too.

    Tl;dr - it's too rushed, too impersonal, with no information on the game or instruction on the basics. I also missed vital components of creating my character. I think the previous intro covered all that was needed.
    Alts will love this - true newbies won't have a clue (as Glomdoring has already seen with newbies not knowing how to follow).
    This feedback is a bit confusing.  The lamp prompts you to introduce yourself. The lamp teaches all the things you are saying the intro doesn't teach.  Can you explain what you mean a bit better?

    If I'm understanding correctly, perhaps you just need to think of the Lamp as the real intro, it teaches you everything you need to know and you can take it with you while you explore the world, so nothing is rushed. 

    Ulalah said:
    I've seen that this is mentioned a couple times, but I'm mentioning it again: there is no option, as far as I know (and I went through on Mudlet), to select a race. There's no information at all about races, in fact, which is confusing. The entire thing is a bit confusing -- you get put at the Portal of Fate with a lamp? But even the lamp doesn't discuss races and how to pick one!

    It's very good for people who are making alternate characters, but True Newbies might struggle with it. And the race thing is super not good, man; like Lavinya said, race is a huge part of lore/rp, and should be discussed. Not to mention, some places restrict certain races, so knowing that beforehand would be really great (i.e. Magnagora refusing to allow merian, elfen and kepheran races).

        Newbies can't really understand the racial options until after they have been through the collegium. Many newbies got stuck on the racial options because there were too many choices.  Once they understand the lore of the game better they will have a better idea of which race to select. And at any time they can choose to select a race without having to go through reincarnation when they find out the race they initially picked doesn't fit the city or guild they chose.


    Tremula said:
    There's almost no proper flavour, and the Fates aren't even referenced once. How are you supposed to know who they are when you die if you didn't get their proper introduction?


    The lamp tells you a bit about who the Fates are, points you to the lore, and should cover everything a newbie needs to know. If there is anything you think the lamp is missing, let us know.



  • VeyilsVeyils Member Posts: 1,442 Mythical
    edited October 2016
    Ah it sounds, after reading your post, that it isn't clear to newbies and existing players that the lamp is a continuation of the intro as opposed to just a fun help file aid and hint and tip tool.

    They come out of the 'intro' proper and start interaction with other players before the lamp part has a chance to teach them the basic commands, so other players end up teaching them instead.

    So when a novice starts chatting on cgt we may have to assume that they haven't really finished the intro yet and still need to be taught basic syntax's.

    It'll be an adjustment for everyone to get used to the new system.

    Not sure if it's a good way of doing it or not, will have to see how the true novices find it now we know they probably won't know the basic commands when we players start teaching them in game.


  • UlalahUlalah Member Posts: 86 Adept
    You guys said you wanted feedback. We're giving you feedback and you're explaining why our feedback is wrong; this feedback is coming from well-established players who were, in spite of being /familiar/ with the game, confused during your changes.

    I love you guys, but if you don't really want feedback, just tell us what you did and why and move on with it. Don't tell us the feedback is wrong when multiple people cite issues.

    Also, Edith's right - true newbies in Glom lately have not understood what to do, command-wise. So I guess illustrating how important the lamp is would be useful.
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  • LavinyaLavinya Former Queen of Snark AustraliaMember Posts: 3,354 Transcendent
    Perhaps, @Weiwae, a prompt about race could be beneficial? IE a hint or ooc note that race has a big impact on both rp and mechanics, and so the choice shouldn't be made in haste and also point out that they have unlimited reincarnations as a newbie?

    There are always going to be people come through (and there have been plenty during the previous intro) asking about race and if they were stuck human etc etc. At least before we just had to tell them to wait and progress a bit further in the intro. Prompts I think would at least be reassuring.

    I'll admit I didn't hang around and play with the lamp since I was just testing to help out a friend who didn't know if the intro was over or she had broken it (it was over) so apologies if my thoughts weren't very well informed.



  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,687 Mythical
    Having run through the intro, it feels really brief. I think you could have a few more things added in there. Like score, picking a race, learning some skills.
     
    I'd probably second that players are also more likely going to be teaching true newbies the basic commands, and things beyond those basics could just be tasks if you teach newbies how to use that system, if they aren't already, which is potentially convenient for web client players as it will mean they have a list in front of them that they can click through.

    With race selection, we do have the guild recommendations system, these could perhaps be expanded a bit with specific notes on the recommended races to give newbies a better idea.

    I'd also suggest maybe having a look at what Aetolia did with their class info, because that gives you a decent idea of what you're going to be doing in combat and i don't remember an option for it, but it would be handy to be able to repick your org in the guild selection stage.
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  • WeiwaeWeiwae Member, Gods Posts: 443 Divine
    No feedback is wrong but it can be confusing if the same words mean different things.  I.e. how can something be in the intro and not be in the intro at the same time?

    When you say to give a prompt, do you mean in the portal, on the lamp ,  hints or  tips?

    What commands do newbies not seem to know? Please give specifics.

  • VeyilsVeyils Member Posts: 1,442 Mythical
    edited October 2016
    By prompt on default they mean health mana ego. The basic commands newbies seem unsure of are things like follow, using the pack and general item use.

    I'm work atm but I can run through and give a detailed list of all the need to know but don't get taught commands newbies probably should know as soon as they step out of the intro tonight. If someone else hasn't done so by then.

    Honestly it just looks like all the stuff may be in the lamp but by the time they step out of the intro proper they are speaking and interacting with players so don't get a chance to learn from the lamp. Maybe make it super duper clear how important the lamp is as the lamp is basically the new intro not the actual intro.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,333 Transcendent
    Let's collect a couple thoughts. 

    • A lot of folks asking for the prompt mean CONFIG PROMPT VITALS, and CONFIG MAPVIEW ON. Since the map thing pops an achievement, I'd recommend that as a TIP or a HINT after the orc.
    • The orc could stand to be replaced with the Shadow that represents/represented the old, mortal life before the Portal (again), for lore reasons.
    • The bashing tutorial dummy needs to be able to take more than one hit, especially given that the prompt immediately before attacking him indicates that you might need to keep hitting him.
    • Allowing the orc/shadow to hit you back also opens an avenue for a quick blurb about sipping. "You seem to be missing some health. Health and mana, and later ego, are very important. You should SIP HEALTH to recover what you've lost."
    • I believe all of the collegia require curing in some capacity, so that can be avoided in the intro, but having a quick bit about LEARN and Lessons wouldn't be remiss, sometime before the lamp. Maybe a bit of Planar or discernment?
    • Can things be set up so that once you pass the threshholds, you get a HINT or TIP that tells you what's changed? "You are now above the xth circle of experience, and the powers of the Fates are fading from you. Your potions and herbs will now be consumed when you use them. Each vial holds 50 uses, or sips, of liquid." "You are now above the yth circle of experience, and the powers of the Fates are fading from you. You must now eat food to stay alive, and will find yourself growing sleepy." "You are now above the 25th circle of experience, and the powers of the Fates are nearly gone. You may only stay in Newton Caverns by Their grace, and will be automatically removed after the 30th circle."
    • Since we select classes beforehand, and the game dynamically learns what your attack command is, can we be asked to KILL ORC/SHADOW rather than PUNCH or KICK him?
    • A TIP or HINT that player and admin convention is to put commands in all caps to convey syntax in-character might not be remiss, come to think.
    • Nor would a quick spiel about how the Portal messes with your memories, so we don't judge if you don't know your backside from a hole in the ground.
  • XeriaXeria Member Posts: 633 Gifted
    @Weiwae the kiakoda babies quest is wonderful but doesn't teach you how to look for objects hidden in the room description. it doesn't indicate that sometimes you need to record everything a denizen says to cross out anything contradictory to find the answer.

    Seems damn obvious once it's been pointed out but not so much beforehand.

    you could hide some of the food items used to attract the animals within each location.  Then you have one of the mobs mention it in passing in an obtuse way.

    'oh hrm, the peguins like to hide sardines in X when they escape'

    HINT: LOOK and PROBE, TOUCH, TURN, PULL, PUSH every object in the room. Perhaps the extra bait is hidden here? 

    player connects what they've been doing with the babies to the things they can do while looking for hidden objects.

    after that the quest is complete, quillion jones can mention the names of the mobs that start other quests. i suggest the village quests because they're self contained for the most part and don't require the player to be highly leveled to collect quest items.
    is dead like the dodo
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