Guild Overhaul Preview 1: Meet your guild

IanirIanir Gods Posts: 186 Divine

Hello, everybody.

Today, I would like to take you on an excellent adventure.

Meet Bill. Bill is a new newbie in Gaudiguch who has just joined the new guild Testguild. Just coming out of the Portal of Fate, he is curious about who his guildmates are, and what his guild is about.

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Bill finds this interesting. What are these strange positions and this 'path' thing? It is quickly explained to Bill that the positions are similar to what secretary and security used to be, except their powers are entirely customizable and imbuable by the guild so they can fullfil either specific or general purposes as the guild prefers. It is also explained that paths are alternate sets of rank names guilds can customise and set up, up to five, for their members. Bill finds this interesting, and decides to check what the guild ranks are as they correspond to paths, and what paths there are, by using HELP GUILDRANKS.

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Well, this is certainly interesting, but Bill has high aspirations and wishes to be the guild's leader. Sadly, he cannot contest until his third guild rank, so he has to get there somehow. After doing some probably (but hopefully not) inane tasks set up by the leaders of Testguild, Bill, is promoted to the second rank by Ianir with GUILD PROMOTE BILL. Promotions are, unlike guildfavours of the past, an instant and guaranteed promotion to the next rank, but you are limited in how often a single person can be promoted. However, as Ianir is an Anomaly and the rules of reality do not apply to him, we'll just give Bill another promotion.

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Excellent, now Bill has received his requisite guildrank. However, because you can't contest until you've played 150 hours and elections are boring anyway, let's skip that whole charade and just assign Bill as the new guild leader.

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Wait, what's that? Bill is the leader, but only rank three? Well, yes. Guild leader is no longer an escalator straight to the top like guildmaster used to be. Instead, while you have the privileges to do whatever you want, you can no longer be promoted and instead will automatically receive a promotion every span of time. Bill thinks this is probably fair.

Oh, what's that? Oh hey, we have a new member who just came out of the Portal of Fate named Ted. Hi Ted!

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Ted rises quickly into his next promotion, and selects a guild path since his guild lets him do that because hopes and dreams matter, so Bill (or anybody who can do it really) moves him over to a new path along with his promotion. He is also given the position of... something, it doesn't really matter, but this position gives him a -lot- of privileges. He can now edit his GHELPs, speak on GTS, work with the guild ledger, and even inguild and decide who can harvest flesh or crystals if his guild is in a city which allows this. The privileges, he learned, have been assigned to this position in the same way they can be assigned to specific rank levels, and he's just getting a few exclusive ones and some of the others early. Ted is happy with this because he can be helpful.

That's all for now with Bill and Ted, though. Join us next time as we learn about the new Patron Request system, and in future episodes where we learn about changes to the city ministries (including the new Ministry of Education and Ministry of Security), and the new Envoy system!


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Comments

  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,201 Transcendent
    This system borrows and improves on some of the stuff I adored most about Achaea's House system. I'm a huge fan of these changes. Kudos!
  • TamsinTamsin Member Posts: 132 Master
    It took me entirely too long to get the Bill and Ted reference there.

    But it does look like it will be an excellent adventure.
  • DylaraDylara Member Posts: 1,286 Transcendent
    I thought the Bill name at first was a reference to Pokemon, like the ranks, but then Ted came along.

    Anyways, this looks quite interesting.

    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,600 Mythical
    edited February 6
    @Ianir, I think I love you.

    It's looking better than I'd hoped.
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  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,687 Transcendent
    I'm liking the look of this! My only two suggestions would be hiding the current "rank" of the leader, and lengthening the time between promotions. It won't take long at all to go from FR3 to FR10/15 at that rate.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,600 Mythical
    Everiine said:
    I'm liking the look of this! My only two suggestions would be hiding the current "rank" of the leader, and lengthening the time between promotions. It won't take long at all to go from FR3 to FR10/15 at that rate.
    Or maybe more regular guild favours instead? You'd probably ascend the early ranks fairly quickly but need to spend a long time in power to get the later ones.
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  • IanirIanir Gods Posts: 186 Divine
    Everiine said:
    I'm liking the look of this! My only two suggestions would be hiding the current "rank" of the leader, and lengthening the time between promotions. It won't take long at all to go from FR3 to FR10/15 at that rate.
    We're still playing with the numbers. The current numbers I have in for promotion limits are 3mo/6mo/1yr at GR<=3, GR<=7, and GR>=7. The original proposal we have has them at 1yr/3yr/5yr. I'm personally trying to find a good middle ground that isn't too fast but doesn't completely hurt the achievers who do all their tasks quickly.
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  • TremulaTremula I just really like Chocobos Member Posts: 2,259 Transcendent
    In the beginning, when there are no high ranked people, how will promotions be devvied out? Are we going to get the chance to help create built-in promotion tasks that you can accomplish?
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,600 Mythical
    edited February 6
    Tremula said:
    In the beginning, when there are no high ranked people, how will promotions be devvied out? Are we going to get the chance to help create built-in promotion tasks that you can accomplish?
    It'll probably be a week or so for the founders to elect and appoint people, but then there will be people around who can just promote.
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  • IanirIanir Gods Posts: 186 Divine
    Tremula said:
    In the beginning, when there are no high ranked people, how will promotions be devvied out? Are we going to get the chance to help create built-in promotion tasks that you can accomplish?
    I'll let @Thax answer that one. I'm not entirely sure.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,600 Mythical
    Oh, @Ianir would it be possible for the paths to be changed by npcs? Like if a guild wanted, they could have a quest to set them?
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  • AlisaAlisa Member Posts: 22 Capable
    Will there be any in-built advantages to gaining ranks that is separated to being appointed a position in the guilds?
  • IanirIanir Gods Posts: 186 Divine
    Saran said:
    Oh, @Ianir would it be possible for the paths to be changed by npcs? Like if a guild wanted, they could have a quest to set them?
    Technically, it is doable to make this possible. I can't say if it will happen at this point as that's not a decision I can make alone, however, but if you have a purpose for it in your guild, I recommend asking after it via the patron request system (which I'll be detailing in the next week or less).

    Alisa said:
    Will there be any in-built advantages to gaining ranks that is separated to being appointed a position in the guilds?
    Privileges will be assignable to ranks (customisable as per everything else). We have some ideas about how to make ranks useful beyond the election rank, but nothing concrete or actually decided on yet; this may change before the release, however.

    Some of the ideas we've thrown across the table include: Gating a guild honour behind a certain number of promotions after the max rank (since we already keep track of that, though there's some reluctance in doing this because it would make it difficult to use it for roleplay for things like the Taroch Prize the Institute has), and a few others one of our volunteers brought up to me earlier that I'll likely add to the discussion pool later.

    However, at the moment, nothing. It's a bit of a difficult problem to solve as we don't want it to be too mechanically required or too gameable, but we don't want it so worthless as nobody even bothers.
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  • ShaddusShaddus *Heavy Breathing Intensifies*Member Posts: 7,238 Transcendent
    Is this basically turning Secretary and Security into paths, and you can be one but not the other?
    2017/04/23 00:29:14 - Nefara honoured Shaddus for: For his dedication to the Earthen Lords and Lady, 
    and willingness to assist our young Pupils. Despite his choosing to not progress himself further, he 
    still works for the Geomancers, and the Engine, in any way he is capable. Also comes with a healthy 
    dose of rebellion, to ensure us of the Council can not be too relaxed.
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,456 Transcendent
    Shaddus said:
    Is this basically turning Secretary and Security into paths, and you can be one but not the other?
    It looks like you can still appoint people to 'secretary' or 'security' or other positions with certain privs, outside of these paths.
  • IanirIanir Gods Posts: 186 Divine
    Shaddus said:
    Is this basically turning Secretary and Security into paths, and you can be one but not the other?
    Not quite. Paths are the alternate rank names. Positions, which are replacing Secretary and Security and such, are replacing them instead. Each guild will start with 1-2 (at each org's administration's discretion) though there can be up to 5, and privileges can be imbued into them.

    The following is not a final list of privileges imbuable (is that a word?), but here is what we have currently for positions and ranks. These are, until release (and potentially even after release) subject to change.

    POSITION <ADDPERM|REMOVEPERM> <1-5> <ghelp|gts|harvestlog|harvestgrant|harvest|archivist|gmembers|inguild|outguild|title|writenews|memberinfo|bank|message|diplomacy|ledger|promote>

    RANK SETPERM <0-max> <gts|gmembers|title|writenews|memberinfo|promote|diplomacy|inguild> (sets a minimum rank for the privilege, with 0 disabling it from the rank system altogether)
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  • ThaxThax Member, Gods Posts: 48 Divine
    @Tremula While this isn't set in stone, once the leader is elected, they will be able to create positions with the ability to promote. This will allow the leader and any custom positions with the promote priv to promote members per whatever criteria they want.
  • VeyilsVeyils Member Posts: 1,095 Fabled
    Is the classflex system basically going to be the same? But we just have automatic access to all classes?
  • VeyilsVeyils Member Posts: 1,095 Fabled
    Also question, whats happening to the guild powers of rescue and such? 

    Will we be able to give them to set positions for example?
  • AlisaAlisa Member Posts: 22 Capable
    Regarding the ability to customize paths, are we also able to start splitting faction members at a certain rank?

    For example, I only want to start allowing people to specialize in paths at GR3 onwards. Is it possible to set unique path ranks/titles from GR3 onwards, or does the code restrict us from needing to start from GR1 onwards?
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,600 Mythical
    Alisa said:
    Regarding the ability to customize paths, are we also able to start splitting faction members at a certain rank?

    For example, I only want to start allowing people to specialize in paths at GR3 onwards. Is it possible to set unique path ranks/titles from GR3 onwards, or does the code restrict us from needing to start from GR1 onwards?
    I think that's okay, it doesn't show a screen cap but Ted gets promoted (so he'd be gr2) and then changes paths in the post.


    @Ianir thanks :). yeah I'd expect it's something that we'd have to request. I can just see it being a neat feature for some if it's possible.
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  • IanirIanir Gods Posts: 186 Divine
    edited February 8
    Veyils said:
    Is the classflex system basically going to be the same? But we just have automatic access to all classes?
    You will have automatic access to all of your org's classes. You will be unable to flex into classes outside of your city/commune.

    Veyils said:
    Also question, whats happening to the guild powers of rescue and such? 

    Will we be able to give them to set positions for example?
    This will be answered further when we get to the new city ministries.

    Alisa said:
    Regarding the ability to customize paths, are we also able to start splitting faction members at a certain rank?

    For example, I only want to start allowing people to specialize in paths at GR3 onwards. Is it possible to set unique path ranks/titles from GR3 onwards, or does the code restrict us from needing to start from GR1 onwards?
    Just don't move them to another path until GR3; there's no particular need to have different titles at some ranks for any of the paths, nor is there a need to move people to a path before a certain point, so you can handle it as you wish.
    Post edited by Ianir on
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  • KagatoKagato Carmichael, CAMember Posts: 947 Fabled
    Ianir said:
    Veyils said:
    Is the classflex system basically going to be the same? But we just have automatic access to all classes?
    You will have automatic access to all of your org's classes. You will be unable to flex into classes outside of your city/commune.

    What happens with the people that have taken up skillflexing into skills from a city/commune that is not their own? Will the lessons they invested be refunded? (Not that I've done this myself, but I know of other people that HAVE)
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,428 Transcendent
    I suspect that you will keep those skills, so if you switch to that org you can flex to them all you want.

    As far as I know they do not refund lessons if you had learned them and the guild revoked your access to classflex, so I can't see the new system being more forgiving in that respect... (unless they do refund and I have just never heard of it, of course!)
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  • KagatoKagato Carmichael, CAMember Posts: 947 Fabled
    Xenthos said:
    I suspect that you will keep those skills, so if you switch to that org you can flex to them all you want.

    As far as I know they do not refund lessons if you had learned them and the guild revoked your access to classflex, so I can't see the new system being more forgiving in that respect... (unless they do refund and I have just never heard of it, of course!)
    I mainly asked since at present you can still classflex to a guild skill outside of your city/commune, you just can't use skills that exclusively require power from a specific nexus.  Under the new system, you won't be able to access them at all unless you become a citizen of that city/commune is the impression I'm currently getting.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,428 Transcendent
    Kagato said:
    Xenthos said:
    I suspect that you will keep those skills, so if you switch to that org you can flex to them all you want.

    As far as I know they do not refund lessons if you had learned them and the guild revoked your access to classflex, so I can't see the new system being more forgiving in that respect... (unless they do refund and I have just never heard of it, of course!)
    I mainly asked since at present you can still classflex to a guild skill outside of your city/commune, you just can't use skills that exclusively require power from a specific nexus.  Under the new system, you won't be able to access them at all unless you become a citizen of that city/commune is the impression I'm currently getting.
    Can you classflex to a guild that has revoked your classflex permissions?
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  • KagatoKagato Carmichael, CAMember Posts: 947 Fabled
    edited February 7
    Xenthos said:
    Kagato said:
    Xenthos said:
    I suspect that you will keep those skills, so if you switch to that org you can flex to them all you want.

    As far as I know they do not refund lessons if you had learned them and the guild revoked your access to classflex, so I can't see the new system being more forgiving in that respect... (unless they do refund and I have just never heard of it, of course!)
    I mainly asked since at present you can still classflex to a guild skill outside of your city/commune, you just can't use skills that exclusively require power from a specific nexus.  Under the new system, you won't be able to access them at all unless you become a citizen of that city/commune is the impression I'm currently getting.
    Can you classflex to a guild that has revoked your classflex permissions?
    Not really the same thing.  Ultimately I'm not fussed on a personal level since I haven't taken up classflexing beyond a single trade skill.  Seems a bit wrong though that the door is abruptly slammed in one's face after a not-small investment, both on an in-game (building rapport with a guild and earning their trust so  you can flex to their skills) and meta level (getting a single guild skill to transcendent takes 285 credits) unless they move to another city, which carries it's own implications in that they will be locked out of skills obtained within THAT city unless they move back THERE again.  It's not particularly fair to expect someone to either a) change cities every time they want to flex to a skill not held by that city/commune or b) put up with a loss of up to 285 credits if they want to hold onto the skill on the outside chance that they will shift to that city/commune, or 58 credits worth of lessons from forgetting it permanently and transferring those lessons to their lesson pool.  Don't forget that not everyone has an abundance of credits and that purchases like that can be a VERY rare treat for some players.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,428 Transcendent
    Kagato said:
    Xenthos said:
    Kagato said:
    Xenthos said:
    I suspect that you will keep those skills, so if you switch to that org you can flex to them all you want.

    As far as I know they do not refund lessons if you had learned them and the guild revoked your access to classflex, so I can't see the new system being more forgiving in that respect... (unless they do refund and I have just never heard of it, of course!)
    I mainly asked since at present you can still classflex to a guild skill outside of your city/commune, you just can't use skills that exclusively require power from a specific nexus.  Under the new system, you won't be able to access them at all unless you become a citizen of that city/commune is the impression I'm currently getting.
    Can you classflex to a guild that has revoked your classflex permissions?
    Not really the same thing.  Ultimately I'm not fussed on a personal level since I haven't taken up classflexing beyond a single trade skill.  Seems a bit wrong though that the door is abruptly slammed in one's face after a not-small investment, both on an in-game (building rapport with a guild and earning their trust so  you can flex to their skills) and meta level (getting a single guild skill to transcendent takes 285 credits) unless they move to another city, which carries it's own implications in that they will be locked out of skills obtained within THAT city unless they move back THERE again.  It's not particularly fair to expect someone to either a) change cities every time they want to flex to a skill not held by that city/commune or b) put up with a loss of up to 285 credits if they want to hold onto the skill on the outside chance that they will shift to that city/commune, or 58 credits worth of lessons from forgetting it permanently and transferring those lessons to their lesson pool.  Don't forget that not everyone has an abundance of credits and that purchases like that can be a VERY rare treat for some players.
    I guess I'm not sure how it's not the same thing.  Guilds won't exist, so classflex perms will be revoked.  Mechanically it is the same as if a guild leader stripped it from you, no?  What's the difference in your mind?  That it wasn't done at the whim of a player?
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  • KagatoKagato Carmichael, CAMember Posts: 947 Fabled
    *shrug* My thought remains the same in that they should be given the opportunity to regain their lessons to reinvest elsewhere, without the 20% penalty due to the change in mechanics (Refunds have been offered for other things affected by changes in game mechanics, so there is a precedent)
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