Idea: Pig Noses are not healthy for the game.

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Comments

  • DanquikDanquik Member Posts: 144 Master
    edited February 17
    Faeie said:
    Thanks for all the tips! What I'm getting here is:

    1. Alright so there's obviously other options, the problem is that a lot of them use eq/bal and/or require me to type out names.

    Try typing ABJURE FARSCOUT ALLIES while being attacked (which btw deals damage to me because of that thorn crown thing), or ABJURE WINDOW KAIMANAHI (which I also get bolted for cuz crown) and THEN type out or try to click those numbers that flashed on the screen for a literal second.

    And yes I can alias the farscout, still takes balance and deals damage to me and requires another action for me to actually get there, and by the time I get there sometimes my allies moved already which makes me cry.

    Observe should be nice, Alertness is better. Which animal ears give you (I've the same issues with this).

    Callouts are the best option probably.

    2. It's ok that it's mostly used as a tool to locate enemies. This is something people can pay credits for, it's fair.

    3. It's still ridiculous that everyone in this beautiful world is wearing animal noses. I don't care if it's a bunny nose instead of a pig nose it's still ridiculous (albeit cuter) that EVERYONE wears them.

    5. It's stiiiill kinda fucked that you fight with scent in every fight. Like yeah the whole SPRAYing the room and other such playarounds are engaging but it really doesn't make sense it's such an obscure skill for EVERYONE to have. And it does kinda make those that DO have the skill not useful any more. (I do think maybe not only totem users should have it but it would be nice to have one person in your team you rely on for scent rather than everyone being able to do it for no apparent reason). I mean I sure would like it if my farscout was useful but it's really not because everyone has scent already which is BETTER. Honestly artifacts that give skills like that are not supposed to be better than the real thing. Not by this much.

    4. No one likes the 3p line and it'd probably be nice if it was customizable.

    5. Master of clickbait confirmed, where's my money and invitation letter to buzzfeed.


    1. All I get from this is 'typing is hard'
     1.a 'goto person' would require you to type out names too. Funny, how in a typing game you would be required to type things.
     1.b You shouldn't be farscouting or scrying when being attacked, you should also make aliases so you don't have to type out full commands, like 'scout kaimanahahahaha' instead of 'abjure farscout kaimanahohohoho'
     1.c Your allies should have you allied, and you should have them allied. Crown of thorns should never hit you from allies.
     1.d Most combat leaders in the north call their rooms for regroup. I am betting Kaminininininini does.
     1.e You have tarot users. learn to call out for 'empress me' on your combat clan
     1.f You don't have to type out a full name, even. Instead of typing 'scout kaimanahiii'  you can just do 'scout kai' and in almost every client you can hit the tab key and bam, 'scout kaimanahooo' appears in your command bar.


    2. Nothing to add here.

    3. Half the races are animal-istic, there are also walking gemstones, candy that talks, people on pogo sticks, surfboards, numerous other things, but your immersion is ruined because of a gimmicky scent artifact?

    4. I am assuming you meant 4 here and not 5 twice.
      4.a  Anyways, scent is not required unless you are leading combat, there are a bunch of ways to find your group or have your group 'rescue' you.
     4.b Which one person would you like on your team to only have scent and how are you going to convince them that they should never ever log off because they are the only person on your team allowed to scent? How are you going to convince everyone else they are not allowed to buy/use scent because you already have someone picked for scenting?
     4.c Farscout is very useful, in fact there are numerous occasions where farscout is superior to scent. I am sure you will learn them.
     4.d Scent artifact is not better than scent. It is the exact same skill.

    5. Will the real point 5 please stand up. Nothing else to add here. I would like customization of noses as well.

    6. Unless I am in an alternate reality and this is not really point 6, I have nothing to add on this either.


    Summary: Scent is good, not required. Farscout is better at what it is intended for than scent. You have a strange concept of what is immersion breaking in a world full of gimmicky artifacts, races, pets, and overall concepts. I can't spell Kamanaharharharhar, You need to make aliases and learn to rely on your allies more. Typing is apparently hard in a typing game.





  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,639 Transcendent
    edited February 17
    I promise that scent is not required, and you are better off than most classes in the "where the heck is everyone" regard just by having farscout.

    image
  • FylerFyler Member Posts: 598 Mythical
    edited February 17
    Faeie said:
    Thanks for all the tips! What I'm getting here is:

    1. Alright so there's obviously other options, the problem is that a lot of them use eq/bal and/or require me to type out names.

    Try typing ABJURE FARSCOUT ALLIES while being attacked (which btw deals damage to me because of that thorn crown thing), or ABJURE WINDOW KAIMANAHI (which I also get bolted for cuz crown) and THEN type out or try to click those numbers that flashed on the screen for a literal second.

    And yes I can alias the farscout, still takes balance and deals damage to me and requires another action for me to actually get there, and by the time I get there sometimes my allies moved already which makes me cry.

    Observe should be nice, Alertness is better. Which animal ears give you (I've the same issues with this).

    Callouts are the best option probably.

    2. It's ok that it's mostly used as a tool to locate enemies. This is something people can pay credits for, it's fair.

    3. It's still ridiculous that everyone in this beautiful world is wearing animal noses. I don't care if it's a bunny nose instead of a pig nose it's still ridiculous (albeit cuter) that EVERYONE wears them.

    5. It's stiiiill kinda fucked that you fight with scent in every fight. Like yeah the whole SPRAYing the room and other such playarounds are engaging but it really doesn't make sense it's such an obscure skill for EVERYONE to have. And it does kinda make those that DO have the skill not useful any more. (I do think maybe not only totem users should have it but it would be nice to have one person in your team you rely on for scent rather than everyone being able to do it for no apparent reason). I mean I sure would like it if my farscout was useful but it's really not because everyone has scent already which is BETTER. Honestly artifacts that give skills like that are not supposed to be better than the real thing. Not by this much.

    4. No one likes the 3p line and it'd probably be nice if it was customizable.

    5. Master of clickbait confirmed, where's my money and invitation letter to buzzfeed.
    Having to click the screen has nothing to do with the artifact. That is an auto tracker problem which no IRE offers (to my knowledge), and they exist for farscout, scry, scent, and everything else. Yes, they require balance/eq. Yes, the artifact is better/faster. No, it is not a requirement for casual play. Your complaint was that "sight" itself requires an artifact, which is incorrect. If you are having trouble tracking allies while being attacked, scent isn't going to solve your problem. 

    Farscout is still useful. Farscout is your plane and all adjacent planes, scent is area only. The artifact does not replace farscout. Farscout artifact is a telescope, which is a direct copy of farscout. They do different things. Farscout can be used in lieu of a nose with an equilbrium penalty. The nose cannot be used in lieu of farscout. One is not better, they are different.

    If you are getting hit by the crown for farscouting allies, your allies need to ally you back and you will not take damage. 

    Hell, in most fights you can just WHO and see where the gaggle of lowbies/midbies without gems is hanging out. In most fights, WHO and SCAN are all you need to find the group. Sounds super basic, but it works. Gotta learn the basics. 

    The only thing I agree on is that it devalues totems scent, but that ship sailed years ago and it's not that big of a deal in the end. It's not "obscure," in that it was a popular idea when Estarra asked for artifact ideas because scent is great. It's also how we got the farscout telescope, the pogo, the crown of thorns, and a number of other skill copy artifacts

    I don't know if you know enough about the game yet to be complaining like this. I feel like you should spend more time asking questions first, the community is very helpful. Scent is nice, but there are workarounds that aren't significantly different. Scent only changes your gameplay if you are a heavy PKer. 


    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,639 Transcendent
    I believe you need a certain amount of Planar to see the adjacent planes, but yeah. Pretty much all of the above.

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  • OrventaOrventa Member Posts: 576 Mythical
    edited February 17
    I don't have a wakabi in this race, but I just had a thought: Aren't there clients or somesuch that allow for filtering or muting of certain lines? Like, say the snorfling of the noses annoys you, you could input that and then you don't have to see it again ever. Or do something like reverse highlighting with your client colours? Out of sight, out of mind.


    I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
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  • SluelughSluelugh Member Posts: 37 Apprentice
    edited February 17
    I like my snobby snoot.

    Also, I find more value in learning the areas that I am fighting in so I know how to get around. A lot of times, if we go to a bubble or area that is new to me I will stay after to look over the area and get a general layout.

    If you can't find your way to your team without those tools, you're not going to survive long. 

    That said, I have a special snoz so I may be mildly biased. Do I rely on it to help? Yep. Do I think that I need one to have fun? Newp.

    Edit:As for the argument about immersion, I actually like the ooc references and silliness.  When I read the Elder Wars histories, particularly the sections about the splinter races, I see justification for Lusternia to not be a cookie cutter fantasy world.

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,639 Transcendent
    Orventa's suggestion is perfect, actually. You can literally just delete the line of scenting, and replace it (or not replace it at all).

    image
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 958 Fabled
    edited February 17
    Orventa said:
    I don't have a wakabi in this race, but I just had a thought: Aren't there clients or somesuch that allow for filtering or muting of certain lines? Like, say the snorfling of the noses annoys you, you could input that and then you don't have to see it again ever. Or do something like reverse highlighting with your client colours? Out of sight, out of mind.
    But I know its there. That alone bothers me. Its not like I am even asking it to be free as part of the standard customization. I would gladly pay 25-50cr extra (assuming it would fall under the current reaction system in terms of work for the admin).
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,396 Transcendent
    Scent is important, really, and significantly so for combat. Maybe more important for newbies getting into combat than established combatants, because of the role it plays in teaching newbies how to combat.

    Specifically, I'm talking about spatial awareness. One of the most important skill in combat is getting back to your own group without needing your team to hold your hand or empress you. If you can do that, you instantly become an asset. Of course, when you're pinned down and need rescue, or it's a special area that can't really be navigated alone, then you need your team's help, and they definitely should step in if they want their own people to get back to them. It's a two-way street, the individual fighter must train to possess spatial awareness and area orientation, and the team leader, and the rest of the team, must be ready to facilitate friendlies back into the main group.

    All that said, the fact that this is such an important skill means that I personally feel it is good that there is an artifact for it. The implementation (pig's nose, ridiculous 3p lines etc) is meant to cater to more than just combat, and that's fine. Some people like silliness in their games (gosh!) and some people don't. I personally just ignore the immersion breaking aspect of scent. For me, it's a requirement for combat, so I don't begrudge it when people use it, whether or not it is "appropriate" for their, or my, character. There are alternatives, of course, and they're great for teaching area awareness skills as well, but scent definitely is top class. Asking a price for it is not really unreasonable.

    It should also be noted that just having the scent ability can be fairly useless unless you have the appropriate scripts to make it useful. Without a map to plot out your allies' positions instantly upon scent, or provide hyperlinks to quick goto aliases, the ability is just as useless for newbies as if they didn't have it. At the end of the day, the price tag is irrelavant - its the amount of effort you put into learning these intangible combat skills. They aren't really mechanically hard coded, and to become good at certain aspects of combat, you can't run away from the effort - even if the person learning is a pro from another IRE... or another org in Lusternia, even.

    For example, if you asked me to defend, say, Continuum from raids, I'll be hardpressed to be useful at all. I don't know the area, I don't know the defensive spots. I have a rough idea of dangerous places for an attacker and general strategies with the area, but I don't know what the usual protocol, and I have no advantage over an invading force in terms of area knowledge - not unless I invest time and effort to learning the place, accustoming myself to room names, to the map, to the strategies defenders use etc. And these advantages most certainly shouldn't be hardcoded. They need to be learned, and they need to be learned without server-side help. Things like scent facilitate this learning, gives you an advantage as you master the skill, and thus require some monetary (or a lot of grinding) investment to acquire. But the effort needed is priceless. (I sound like a Mastercard commercial)

  • ShaddusShaddus His Imperial Altness Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,622 Transcendent
    I'm confused. You don't have a problem with noses, you have a problem with the noses being pig noses?
    2017/04/23 00:29:14 - Nefara honoured Shaddus for: For his dedication to the Earthen Lords and Lady, 
    and willingness to assist our young Pupils. Despite his choosing to not progress himself further, he 
    still works for the Geomancers, and the Engine, in any way he is capable. Also comes with a healthy 
    dose of rebellion, to ensure us of the Council can not be too relaxed.
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