I feel like if people are being stupid on Discord then keep the stupidity there.
I mean, the issue is when people want to bring it here so the admin actually sees it, they've already been arguing with people about it for days, over a week with this one.
No. The claim about the economy is one that has circulated Discord and one you're continuing to perpetuate. As if what you did was some altruistic good thing, and not what it actually was.
The discussion about Malarious was not even waiting for an admin reply before continuing to spin.
[6:07 PM] Karlach: My issue is players who knew something was a great get rich scheme albeit shady
[6:07 PM] Karlach: but made it out like they were doing us a favour with it
[6:07 PM] Falmiis: nobody did that
[6:07 PM] Falmiis: you are making a strawman
[6:07 PM] Falmiis: rofl
[6:07 PM] Karlach: You havent listened to malarious' bullshit
"You're just looking for literally anyone who isn't Estarra to pin blame on so you can be angry at some player, to the point of attacking the most obvious target, so uh"
^ Was in reply to that. Followed by me stating to you
"not to mention the argument here of "Oh they have all the artifacts so it's ok they got richer""
And no the argument wasn't just "good job it was limited by stock" It was about how it's a good job only a handful got rich, as if lots of people got a few thousand each that'd be worse!
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
So how about that sportsballgame? I heard local team did great. Lets talk about sportsballgame.
It was so great when that one guy managed to land a point for the opposite team. I laughed so hard. What was your favourite moment?
That moment when the ball was moved and points were scored. It was such a tense moment because opponentteam really did not want localteam to score any points. I almost felt bad for them.
So how about that sportsballgame? I heard local team did great. Lets talk about sportsballgame.
It was so great when that one guy managed to land a point for the opposite team. I laughed so hard. What was your favourite moment?
That moment when the ball was moved and points were scored. It was such a tense moment because opponentteam really did not want localteam to score any points. I almost felt bad for them.
And then that one kid's broom exploded...
I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots. Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
So how about that sportsballgame? I heard local team did great. Lets talk about sportsballgame.
It was so great when that one guy managed to land a point for the opposite team. I laughed so hard. What was your favourite moment?
That moment when the ball was moved and points were scored. It was such a tense moment because opponentteam really did not want localteam to score any points. I almost felt bad for them.
And then that one kid's broom exploded...
No, we are talking about sportsballgame, not floor sweeping champion 2017, please stay on topic.
So how about that sportsballgame? I heard local team did great. Lets talk about sportsballgame.
It was so great when that one guy managed to land a point for the opposite team. I laughed so hard. What was your favourite moment?
That moment when the ball was moved and points were scored. It was such a tense moment because opponentteam really did not want localteam to score any points. I almost felt bad for them.
And then that one kid's broom exploded...
No, we are talking about sportsballgame, not floor sweeping champion 2017, please stay on topic.
Whoops, my bad.
I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots. Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
To be fair, regardless of how good (or bad) Karlach's comparisons are, the underlying sentiment he has is actually one I can identify with, and agree to some extent. Just to play the devil's advocate here a little, let me try to articulate that somewhat:
At some level, regardless of whether or not anyone else is negatively affected by the "mistake" with this month's promotion, at a gut level, it's fairly clear that its results are not exactly what the admin really wanted to implement originally. As players, we all understand that the monthly promotions are here to encourage us to spend money, and offer good "deals" that are better deals than buying credits normally.
However, it's also clear that the admin don't intend for such promotions to give double, or even triple, or even quadruple what you normally would have gotten. After all, the most "lucrative" promotion in the past has been something in the order of 30% credit sale, with an additional 10% for Iron Elite members. So a "deal" of around +40% is considered, probably, on the higher side of the scale of what benefits you can expect.
100%, 200%, 300% not being what the admin intend, is not a difficult conclusion to come to. While fully knowing this, taking advantage of it is, at best, distasteful. At worst, (as a hyperbole) you could push it to argue that it is an exploit. Exploiting the mistake of another person, a mistake they made - just that in this case it's the admin. We're not talking about nobility or greatness or anything. It's just distasteful to be taking advantage of something that is not intended, to reap large profits that are not intended.
To push this hyperbole even further: when this happens with code bugs, it's considered bug abuse.
Of course, this is not a code bug. It's a mistake, an error - intentionally coded, but with unintended consequences. This here on is pure speculation - but it's well within the realm of possibility that it is this fact alone that is the only thing preventing shrubbings. The people who messed up were the admin - it would be unreasonable in the extreme for them to code their promotion in this way, discover it wasn't what they intended and turn around to zap people who took part in it.
But the people who took part in it, exploited it, if you will, were certainly getting rewards that were clearly not intended for a promotion.
Now, the admin's hands are tied. They are facing more than enough backlash from the playerbase already. If they even gave a squeak of censure about players' actions during the period before they corrected their own mistake, you can be sure they'd be buried alive under a mountain of righteous indignation. And well they should. But whether or not that absolves said players from taking advantage - well, that's a moral question that no one really has the right to judge in our community, sans the admin themselves. And since they can't judge others for their own errors... well.
I don't agree with some of what Karlach said. But I most certainly believe the discussion that followed his posts (and others before him that expressed similar sentiments) is a needed one. If our community is incapable of self-reflecting in this scenario, then it'll be a very sad community indeed.
Don't start bringing disco to the forums oh god noooooo.
Edit: By the way, my stance is pretty much the same as Lerad's. As I said before, it was an obvious exploit. Along with that, the admin are the ones that made the problem, so the lions share of the blame in this scandal rests on their shoulders. Expecting the whole playerbase to sit on their hands is unreasonable, an exploit will be exploited. That doesn't mean that the people who abused it share no blame however. I honestly think the admin should look into rolling back the winnings of people that profited over 1k credits but didn't buy any with real money, but a solution like that doesn't seem possible.
Nobody is a murderer, and it's honestly not that huge of a deal. The people who got rich off of this oversight aren't bad people. I could easily see myself on the other side of this 'argument' which should be over by now.
I disappear for a few days and now my excess goop I was hoping to spend and then trade in for credits is now essentially worthless. I also missed out on hitting any of the fireworks moments on the wheel with my 3 crates.
I appreciate that this month's promotion and the changes to it are something about which many of you are passionate, but that is no excuse for flooding Tweets, or the forums, with arguments of this type. New players come to Lusternia's forums to learn about the game and get a glimpse of the community - and our community is far better than this thread would suggest.
You all know when it is going too far. When it gets to that point, please stop.
I disappear for a few days and now my excess goop I was hoping to spend and then trade in for credits is now essentially worthless. I also missed out on hitting any of the fireworks moments on the wheel with my 3 crates.
Wow, thanks so much for all the nerfing. Again.
I was pretty bummed that they nerfed the big firework reward. I've never gotten it, but I knew I had to be close based on how Falmiis was describing them. I had gotten several of the 50cr rewards but never the 500. Sadly now it's probably been moved out of reach.
Such is life! If you want Lavy maybe I can buy some goop off of you for credz.
I appreciate that this month's promotion and the changes to it are something about which many of you are passionate, but that is no excuse for flooding Tweets, or the forums, with arguments of this type. New players come to Lusternia's forums to learn about the game and get a glimpse of the community - and our community is far better than this thread would suggest.
You all know when it is going too far. When it gets to that point, please stop.
This is a pretty good example of a vocal part of the community. This isn't new it's just history repeating in terms of offers and the usual suspects doing their thing on the forums.
So yes this is a pretty normal example of the community as far as I can see from reading the forums over the past 6 months.
Edit: although can you give an official comment on the offer now that we have an admin on the thread now @Czixi ?
Edit: although can you give an official comment on the offer now that we have an admin on the thread now @Czixi ?
No. Official comment can't come from a volunteer on this, it has to be from one of the staff involved in the promotion. Please let's leave the volunteers alone, they have very little say on this stuff.
@Veyils - No, it is not new. Yes, it is often the same people participating in this sort of argument. And sadly, it is normal at present.
But you said it yourself: it is a part of the community. Only a part. A very vocal part, which means that often it is easy to forget that the rest of the forums and our community as a whole are not like this. And in that I include the people who participate in these discussions - there is no one here who solely exists as a "troll". But it is still only a part, and it could and should be smaller.
Even if you are right, and this sort of thing takes up the majority of our community, I do not think it is wrong to aspire to that not being the case. I have seen discussions between the people who participate in that vocal minority that, whilst passionate, have remained civil and stopped when it was time for them to stop. All it requires is for people to take personal responsibility.
@Xenthos is correct, I cannot make an official comment on the promotion. As has been mentioned before, whilst the volunteer administration assist in the delivery of promotions we are not ultimately responsible for them nor do we have control over their cost, availability or similar.
Ah didn't realise there wasn't any feed back given to the admin from above about the issue yet. Thought there may have been. Sorry if it's not related to you.
It seems as if a day per crate (or two pet day) rule had been implemented like so many of us asked for, this wouldn't be as much of an issue.
Now the wheel is nerfed (any chance of it going back to the way it was before? Not likely), the one thing that kept goop competitively priced is gone (meh), and you still have people who caught the original wave and never had to spend a single dollar, because of how rich it's possible to be in this game.
We asked for a compromise, and the people who it would hit hardest argued it wasn't necessary. It evens out in the long run until you get the wheel nerfed.
As a note, I do want to note my objection to the sentiment that it is somehow bad that people are discussing things passionately in tweets (or anywhere else on the forums). That "flooding" tweets (or the forums) is somehow a wrong thing. It's a general thread for random stuff. And these topics are obviously spontaneous and evolve with a life of their own. We should encourage burgeoning discussions and conversations, and yes, even arguments. I don't really see why we want to keep it on a lid and tell people that they shouldn't be using tweets to... tweet about something that is important to them.
If everyone who responded to a tweet needs to consider and second guess themselves, "is this going to get even more replies? Should I make a new thread?" then a lot of important conversations will simply fail to happen. Being able to talk in a forums is important, very much so. The fact that tweets exist as a place where anyone can chip in and offer their two cents without having to take the bigger step of making a new thread, is a positive thing. Some of the perspectives offered are very much important, and valid, and a sign of diverse perspectives.
If you have something to add to an ongoing conversation in an open forum, go ahead! Contribute! Add your voice to the forums, to showcase your perspective. You never know if what you say will bring something new and valuable to the collective community.
That's the kind of message we want to be giving. That we want to be demonstrating to newbies with our actions.
In general, we do demonstrate this in the forums. Which is good. I'm just not sure why we need to be making tweets some kind of exception, where arguments are supposed to stop after a certain, unspecified threshold.
If there was a forums rule infraction (personal attacks or profanity or whatever), increase the warning level of those who stepped out of line. And THEN continue the discussion (if there's still a conversation going on, that is).
Agreed. I'm a little miffed at the 'gtfo Tweets' post. It doesn't sit well alongside the continued silence on the matter from Godmin, but guess I'll say no more on that before I get myself forum banned.
Comments
(It's not even an argument tho lol)
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
"you literally went with the worst option"
"you put ACTUAL PROOF"
^ Was in reply to that. Followed by me stating to you
"not to mention the argument here of "Oh they have all the artifacts so it's ok they got richer""
And no the argument wasn't just "good job it was limited by stock" It was about how it's a good job only a handful got rich, as if lots of people got a few thousand each that'd be worse!
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Falmiis: one person getting 100k cr is a lot better than 100 people getting 1k cr
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
Aliod-Yesterday at 11:14 PM
Pwnlina-02/18/2017
Shuwin-Last Tuesday at 6:28 PM
Shaddus-01/17/2017
Translation: "One person getting 100k credits is better than 100 people getting 1k credits assuming that one person is me"
(Sorry, that was out of line.)
To be fair, regardless of how good (or bad) Karlach's comparisons are, the underlying sentiment he has is actually one I can identify with, and agree to some extent. Just to play the devil's advocate here a little, let me try to articulate that somewhat:
Edit: By the way, my stance is pretty much the same as Lerad's. As I said before, it was an obvious exploit. Along with that, the admin are the ones that made the problem, so the lions share of the blame in this scandal rests on their shoulders. Expecting the whole playerbase to sit on their hands is unreasonable, an exploit will be exploited. That doesn't mean that the people who abused it share no blame however. I honestly think the admin should look into rolling back the winnings of people that profited over 1k credits but didn't buy any with real money, but a solution like that doesn't seem possible.
Nobody is a murderer, and it's honestly not that huge of a deal. The people who got rich off of this oversight aren't bad people. I could easily see myself on the other side of this 'argument' which should be over by now.
Wow, thanks so much for all the nerfing. Again.
You all know when it is going too far. When it gets to that point, please stop.
Such is life! If you want Lavy maybe I can buy some goop off of you for credz.
So yes this is a pretty normal example of the community as far as I can see from reading the forums over the past 6 months.
Edit: although can you give an official comment on the offer now that we have an admin on the thread now @Czixi ?
But you said it yourself: it is a part of the community. Only a part. A very vocal part, which means that often it is easy to forget that the rest of the forums and our community as a whole are not like this. And in that I include the people who participate in these discussions - there is no one here who solely exists as a "troll". But it is still only a part, and it could and should be smaller.
Even if you are right, and this sort of thing takes up the majority of our community, I do not think it is wrong to aspire to that not being the case. I have seen discussions between the people who participate in that vocal minority that, whilst passionate, have remained civil and stopped when it was time for them to stop. All it requires is for people to take personal responsibility.
@Xenthos is correct, I cannot make an official comment on the promotion. As has been mentioned before, whilst the volunteer administration assist in the delivery of promotions we are not ultimately responsible for them nor do we have control over their cost, availability or similar.
We asked for a compromise, and the people who it would hit hardest argued it wasn't necessary. It evens out in the long run until you get the wheel nerfed.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
If everyone who responded to a tweet needs to consider and second guess themselves, "is this going to get even more replies? Should I make a new thread?" then a lot of important conversations will simply fail to happen. Being able to talk in a forums is important, very much so. The fact that tweets exist as a place where anyone can chip in and offer their two cents without having to take the bigger step of making a new thread, is a positive thing. Some of the perspectives offered are very much important, and valid, and a sign of diverse perspectives.
If you have something to add to an ongoing conversation in an open forum, go ahead! Contribute! Add your voice to the forums, to showcase your perspective. You never know if what you say will bring something new and valuable to the collective community.
That's the kind of message we want to be giving. That we want to be demonstrating to newbies with our actions.
In general, we do demonstrate this in the forums. Which is good. I'm just not sure why we need to be making tweets some kind of exception, where arguments are supposed to stop after a certain, unspecified threshold.
If there was a forums rule infraction (personal attacks or profanity or whatever), increase the warning level of those who stepped out of line. And THEN continue the discussion (if there's still a conversation going on, that is).