Factions: The next week and you.

IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
Hi all,

There's been a bit of confusion about some things. I'm here to resolve it or possibly create more questions.

FAQ thus far:

Q) I can join destroyed guilds from the newbie intro?
A) Yeah, our class system is pretty inflexible and actually tied to the guild. To give a bit of input behind the scenes, classflex even stores another guild's reference on your person. We're fixing this when factions actually come out, but that's tied in with the faction recode which will break all existing guilds. In the meantime, newbies need skills. It's confusing, it's a necessary evil due to a rigid system.

Q) What's happening to our assets?
A) I'll be frank, I don't know. There's no admin-wide decision. Each org has been given one instruction: If they ask for any faction-hall upgrades, take those out of the central pool. Otherwise, distribute stuff as you see fit as patrons.

Q) So does that mean I can liquidate my guild's assets?
A) No. And we will be regulating this strictly and monitoring it.

Q) What's that thumping noise in your background?
A) My cat does this thing where she throws herself sideways down stairs, walks back up them, and repeats the process. It sometimes lasts an hour or two.

Q) What about newsposts? Books?
A) It's the general consensus of the administration that books shouldn't be lost to this. We will be providing old books after all the events are over. As for newsposts, I will be generating exports of all of them. Considering there is sensitive information in some of them, I will provide them to old members of the guilds upon request. I will post later as to how to do this, but it should be a fairly simple process.

Q) My org hasn't had its faction event started/Why are their guilds deleted but not mine?
A) So, every org has its own timeframe dictated by its own patrons. We all have a hard deadline on when everything needs to be dead, but everything can be started at an org's patron's leisure. Some orgs have shorter events, some orgs have longer ones. In the end, we'd rather tell a story with this than force everybody to follow the same timeline.

Q) Wait, if my guild's deleted, it won't have an envoy, right?
A) That's right! All envoys have been told to comment if they need to ASAP. In the meantime, as soon as their guild is disbanded, the envoy position will be lost. I will be going into details on the new envoy changes closer to the reformation of the system, around mid-May. April's reports will be given extra scrutiny and, if need be, a decision will be delayed until the new envoy system is in place.

Q) Will we finally be fixing the issue with the intro where it doesn't prompt you to select a race?
A) Yes. Goes live when factions do.

Q) Okay, that thumping noise is still going on ten minutes later. Is your cat still tossing herself down a flight of stairs?
A) Yes.

- Ianir
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Post edited by Ianir on
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Comments

  • TamsinTamsin Member Posts: 134 Master
    What about novices that got dropped from their guilds already? Just encourage them to join one of the others till they disappear too?
  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    Tamsin said:
    What about novices that got dropped from their guilds already? Just encourage them to join one of the others till they disappear too?
    I've fixed skill removal for novices, but one or two of them might have slipped through because I only realised it was happening due to an untrapped error. If a novice has lost their skills due to being removed, I can go ahead and set them up with their class until the class changes are added - Just have them ISSUE ME and I'll grab it the second I'm able.
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  • TamsinTamsin Member Posts: 134 Master
    Okay, thanks!
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Q) What's happening to our assets?
    A) I'll be frank, I don't know. There's no admin-wide decision. Each org has been given one instruction: If they ask for any faction-hall upgrades, take those out of the central pool. Otherwise, distribute stuff as you see fit as patrons.

    What does this mean? Do you mean the gods have been given an instruction or is this something I should be doing as a GA? Is there stuff I'm supposed to have done for my org? Are we supposed to have faction hall upgrades planned? Sorry, just confused.

  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    Breandryn said:

    What does this mean? Do you mean the gods have been given an instruction or is this something I should be doing as a GA? Is there stuff I'm supposed to have done for my org? Are we supposed to have faction hall upgrades planned? Sorry, just confused.

    Faction clans have been requesting certain upgrades (initial quests, addons). It's up to the patrons to decide what goes in or not, but if something non-standard does, it can (and sometimes has to be) be charged for.

    As well, some administrators may want to add some things like that in on their own. I'm not entirely sure of how that's handled.
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  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    So are the faction clans the starting leadership of factions? I don't think Gaudiguch has anyone active in ours except Steingrim.
  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    Breandryn said:
    So are the faction clans the starting leadership of factions? I don't think Gaudiguch has anyone active in ours except Steingrim.
    A can of worms lies that way, I think. The administration has decided fairly unanimously not to appoint the new leaders ourselves. The specifics are going to be a bit hazy until they happen, but I imagine the ability to contest will be temporarily lowered to rank 1 so the players can sort it out themselves. Don't hold me to that though.
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  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,755 Transcendent
    Ianir said:
    Breandryn said:
    So are the faction clans the starting leadership of factions? I don't think Gaudiguch has anyone active in ours except Steingrim.
    A can of worms lies that way, I think. The administration has decided fairly unanimously not to appoint the new leaders ourselves. The specifics are going to be a bit hazy until they happen, but I imagine the ability to contest will be temporarily lowered to rank 1 so the players can sort it out themselves. Don't hold me to that though.
    I'm actually disappointed to hear that. Given that the factions are entirely new, I think it makes much more sense for the admin to appoint the first leaders (not necessarily planning group people, either) who they think they can work with to get the factions off the ground, rather than relying on the players' popularity contests.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    edited April 18
    Following up with that - I've never been around for new org formations in an IRE - are the elected leaders free to create progression, themes, etc for their new orgs? You mention faction clans (versus the factions) creating features like starting quests - are the orgs being given templates and key concepts to work with? How much freedom will we have as players to shape these orgs?
  • OrventaOrventa Member Posts: 580 Mythical
    When Institute came out there were definitely elections held, not sure if there was any prodding from admin though off camera?


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  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,755 Transcendent
    Breandryn said:
    Following up with that - I've never been around for new org formations in an IRE - are the elected leaders free to create progression, themes, etc for their new orgs? You mention faction clans (versus the factions) creating features like starting quests - are the orgs being given templates and key concepts to work with? How much freedom will we have as players to shape these orgs?
    I can't speak for the other planning groups, but the Serenwilde factions have documents that explain the themes, motivations, and other details that give one a pretty decent idea of what the shape of the factions can and will be. The leaders are responsible for developing progression, advancement, rituals, positions, etc.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    Everiine said:
    I'm actually disappointed to hear that. Given that the factions are entirely new, I think it makes much more sense for the admin to appoint the first leaders (not necessarily planning group people, either) who they think they can work with to get the factions off the ground, rather than relying on the players' popularity contests.
    "The admin are biased. Why do they hate me?"
    "That guy sucks, the admin are morons."
    "She probably buys more credits than anybody else, that's why she got leader."

    As much as we'd love to do that, we need to keep a working relationship with the playerbase and we already deal with enough suspicion and attacks directed at us on a constant basis that we don't need to make it worse. Just this week, I've watched two instances of players not wanting to ask questions or bug things because they're worried about us not taking it right (which really leaves me wondering how they came to that conclusion, since I know most of us do our best to be welcoming as administrators, but I digress.)

    Arix said:
    Why does your cat throw itself down the stairs, and do you have pictures?
    No idea, and yes.

    Breandryn said:
    Following up with that - I've never been around for new org formations in an IRE - are the elected leaders free to create progression, themes, etc for their new orgs? You mention faction clans (versus the factions) creating features like starting quests - are the orgs being given templates and key concepts to work with? How much freedom will we have as players to shape these orgs?
    Every faction is starting with some varying amount of lore. Anything admin-provided is considered canon, but that doesn't mean there's not room to build.

    Even with the old guilds, player-created lore often made it's way into canon. To provide a frame of reference here, something a player wrote ages ago as a legend for the Serenguard that ended up getting immortalised in the guildhall has ended up directly inspiring the current Serenwilde faction event's main antagonist. Several guild quests and even global quests have started out as pieces of player-created lore. We do listen, we do watch, and canon is something that can be added to frequently and often is.

    As for things like progression, if you mean adding new stuff to them, I encourage talking to your org's patrons about that. In fact, we have the new patron request system I detailed to make that easier and keep it all documented for future reference (as well as provide a good chronological chain of comments and discussion). If you mean stuff like guild advancement, that's 100% on the players.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,686 Mythical
    Breandryn said:
    So are the faction clans the starting leadership of factions? I don't think Gaudiguch has anyone active in ours except Steingrim.
    For the Serenfaction clan, it's mostly been developing stuff and throwing around ideas which the admin then take and work into the faction (or not). Along with giving feedback on certain things the admin have shared. 

    Everiine said:
    Ianir said:
    Breandryn said:
    So are the faction clans the starting leadership of factions? I don't think Gaudiguch has anyone active in ours except Steingrim.
    A can of worms lies that way, I think. The administration has decided fairly unanimously not to appoint the new leaders ourselves. The specifics are going to be a bit hazy until they happen, but I imagine the ability to contest will be temporarily lowered to rank 1 so the players can sort it out themselves. Don't hold me to that though.
    I'm actually disappointed to hear that. Given that the factions are entirely new, I think it makes much more sense for the admin to appoint the first leaders (not necessarily planning group people, either) who they think they can work with to get the factions off the ground, rather than relying on the players' popularity contests.
    For this one, it's probably as Ianir said, a can of worms. You have people that have been participating in the planning clans for months and who may already have a great deal of knowledge about what the faction was designed to be, who may feel hurt that they aren't chosen by the admin. Then you have the others who will be upset that because they couldn't get into the clan they weren't picked.

    But also yeah, there is a possibility that a faction will have their first leader be someone who just isn't suited to the job or who has a mindset that drives the faction in a direction that it's not meant to go, in turn, effectively recreating the issues that have plagued some guilds. 

    Breandryn said:
    Following up with that - I've never been around for new org formations in an IRE - are the elected leaders free to create progression, themes, etc for their new orgs? You mention faction clans (versus the factions) creating features like starting quests - are the orgs being given templates and key concepts to work with? How much freedom will we have as players to shape these orgs?
    Previously, it's been pretty open from what I've seen. The Shofangi clan had a lot of people transition to the guild so they knew what was planned and I think the initial leaders were all members of the clan but were elected by the player founders (who started at gr3 and could contest).

    The Institute as another example allowed most people to join as novices, but only certain people were allowed to be founders and in turn contest and vote in the first elections.

    The progression is mostly up to the players from what I can assume. The overarching themes are already mostly set, there's wiggle room for specific interpretations but the Ancestor faction is always going to be themed around them for example.

    The starting quests, I expect, would help to reinforce those themes and concepts.

    So moving within that is limited to some degree by the scope and trying to really push a faction in a different direction will probably see push back from players if it goes against what's implemented in the game.

    Similarly, factions who push themselves away from their design would probably encounter the issue where the admin will run events based on what the faction is meant to be, which could conflict or contradict things that players develop.
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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,666 Transcendent
    edited April 18
    edit: nevermind, sorry!

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  • ShedrinShedrin Member Posts: 905 Transcendent
    Everiine said:
    Ianir said:
    Breandryn said:
    So are the faction clans the starting leadership of factions? I don't think Gaudiguch has anyone active in ours except Steingrim.
    A can of worms lies that way, I think. The administration has decided fairly unanimously not to appoint the new leaders ourselves. The specifics are going to be a bit hazy until they happen, but I imagine the ability to contest will be temporarily lowered to rank 1 so the players can sort it out themselves. Don't hold me to that though.
    I'm actually disappointed to hear that. Given that the factions are entirely new, I think it makes much more sense for the admin to appoint the first leaders (not necessarily planning group people, either) who they think they can work with to get the factions off the ground, rather than relying on the players' popularity contests.
    There's a quote supposedly from Churchill that I think is pretty relevant:

    Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

    I think this way leads to the least amount of problems. You can still hear some murmurs of discontent about previous admin appointments or other things. I'm sure the admins will be available to address any issues and guide people no matter what happens.

  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,365 Transcendent
    How does guild deletion interact with classflexing? Do we keep whatever perms that we have, or should I flex before my guild goes away if I'm going to be doing it at all in the next week or so?
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    edited April 18
    Portius said:
    How does guild deletion interact with classflexing? Do we keep whatever perms that we have, or should I flex before my guild goes away if I'm going to be doing it at all in the next week or so?
    If you're doing it in the next week, do it now. After things go live, everybody will have inherent flex privileges to all classes in their org. And since I'm having to clear the classflex flag then, a free classflex.
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  • DylaraDylara Member Posts: 1,287 Transcendent
    Nrgh, just as I'm quitting.

    Anyways, really, really happy that these are going live. I hope it goes well!

    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • TyamitTyamit Member Posts: 71 Capable
    Any word on if the classflex limitations and requirements will be changed, if at all?
  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    Tyamit said:
    Any word on if the classflex limitations and requirements will be changed, if at all?
    Yes. I'll be making an announcement closer to Sunday, but they will be far more permissive. There is one number that may or may not change until after the changes are live though, I'll need to have more discussion surrounding that up here.
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  • TremulaTremula Banished Quasiroyal Member Posts: 2,523 Transcendent
    How will the deletion of guilds work with the enemy labels? Will I log on and see all of my serenwilde/celest/hallifax/cacophony statuses vanish?
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    Tremula said:
    How will the deletion of guilds work with the enemy labels? Will I log on and see all of my serenwilde/celest/hallifax/cacophony statuses vanish?
    https://strawpoll.com/b9bddaf

    Disclaimer: We may make up our minds up here and do what we want, but we'll be watching and taking the results in mind. I know there's two different schools of thought on the matter.
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  • KerithKerith Member Posts: 267 Gifted
    First, thank you for all the time and work that you're putting into this!

    My question is about quests. Some of the NPCs that have been removed from Serenwilde were part of quests. Specifically, I'm thinking of the elfen and faelings, with the script. Will such quests be gone forever, or will you be replacing the NPCs at some point so the quests can be done again?
  • IanirIanir Administrator, Moderator Posts: 441 Creator
    Kerith said:
    First, thank you for all the time and work that you're putting into this!

    My question is about quests. Some of the NPCs that have been removed from Serenwilde were part of quests. Specifically, I'm thinking of the elfen and faelings, with the script. Will such quests be gone forever, or will you be replacing the NPCs at some point so the quests can be done again?
    I'm not overly privy to what each org's plans are with their quests. If you have any concerns, please do feel free to message your patrons with them. Keep in mind gods treat messages (not prayers) as OOC, so you're free to ask such questions to an org's patrons.

    Quick note, everybody's pretty busy when they're around right now, so you might not get a response for a few days or until next week.
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  • KerithKerith Member Posts: 267 Gifted
    @Ianir Thank you! I'm not in Seren's faction clan so I didn't really know how much of it was up to org patrons and how much of it was universal. :smile:
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,772 Transcendent
    Will destroyed / inaccessible guildhalls still be counted towards Explorer rankings?
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