What could I have done better?

RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 873 Adept
edited October 2017 in Combat Logs
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/NURESGSW.

What am I missing or doing wrong? Also, I forgot to turn on my timestamp.  

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/PE0Zyvgb Vs Veyils.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/rVa9feGF Vs Sondayga.


whatever
Post edited by Rolsand on
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Comments

  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 873 Adept
    To be honest I'm looking for any advice because I honestly just wanna get better and enjoy Pk. I'm really tired of just walking in and dying before me and my group can even do anything.
    whatever
  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 873 Adept
    edited October 2017
    I'm not trying to complain or talk about twist. I just want general advice about what I should do better while fighting. I also plan on fighting other classes and posting a log here.
    whatever
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,536 Mythical
    edited October 2017

    You hit parry twice in a row. Enemy meld, multi-ascension discs and you are hit by a long stun from the chembomb. Its hard to break into a fortress, It really is. You did well in surviving being the focus target off the bat.

    Smart use of shielding when you were low vitals.

    You should probably echo the block line as you hit that a few times and that cost you a fair few seconds from the looks of it. Big echo on that so you don't waste time on it and can leap/tumble right away if you need.

    Its hard to tell as I know some skills don't have 3p lines but it doesnt seem like your team bar Trem setting up some stuff and Mrak attempting to meld did much else. I don't see Tarken getting hit really much at all.


  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,536 Mythical
    You've got really low mana so fixed mana use abilities really hit you hard. I sort of think that things like clot and metawake should be more % based. It'd mean they drain more on top tier targets but less on super low mana targets. I know thats sort of an unpopular opinion right now though but making bleed/brusing/clotting scale better on low-high mana targets is something I brought up as far back as the monk overhaul.
  • MrakMrak Member Posts: 225 Master
    Does Esoneyuna's meld tic anywhere? The meld was broken right when you showed up anyway. We also had writhed out of the nature disc right by the time Tarken showed up. Without the disc I may have actually been able to meld, but I wouldn't have gotten effects up.

    I have (relatively) high mana, and was toaded 10 seconds after you stole my shadow (with the -wood stun, and twist aeon/sleep in the meantime). 

    What's usually preferred between merbloom and the insomnia skill? Does it matter? 

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited October 2017
    The first thing glaring at me is you aren't upkeeping insomnia, so your curing was delayed on a couple of occasions. 

    One of the tougher things to do is adjust your sip prios mid fight (very few do this). In small fights (3v3, for example), you can usually just survive on sparkle/scroll and reserve sipping for mana if you now the opposing group's composition. You have 10k health, and you sipped health at 40% health and 79% mana, and your mana pool is much smaller. You were just hit with a wood bomb, could've just sipped mana to top yourself off and been fine there. 

    edit: Insomnia the skill always

    edit2: Aeon+blackout is rough. There's no counter to blackout spam, I hate it as a mechanic.
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited October 2017
    As for the log vs. Veyils, you would've survived with a simple trick. Shield before you cure. It does require overriding M&M slow-curing denial, but it'll save you if they're just going straight for the asthma/anorexia lock. 

    SD has a pretty predictable rhythm. Before the final twist, they have to prep your mana, which is why she lashed you at full mana. 

    One thing I'll admit to about SDs is that their playstyle heavily favors forced solo/small engagements. 

    also: You just need more mana. 
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  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 873 Adept
    I plan on buying a 3/12 mana rune and possibly try to get a 1/8 blue genie set.
    whatever
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,536 Mythical
    Cyndarin said:
    As for the log vs. Veyils, you would've survived with a simple trick. Shield before you cure. It does require overriding M&M slow-curing denial, but it'll save you if they're just going straight for the asthma/anorexia lock. 

    SD has a pretty predictable rhythm. Before the final twist, they have to prep your mana, which is why she lashed you at full mana. 

    One thing I'll admit to about SDs is that their playstyle heavily favors forced solo/small engagements. 

    also: You just need more mana. 

    You can web/general offense while aeoned now without slowing your curing. If you can shield you can web and I'd bet in 90% of situations webbing would be better solo. You cure just as fast and its 3-4 seconds of hinder on the attacker.
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,536 Mythical
    Offensive wise I really don't think knock down is worth doing as an axelord.

    You'd be better off building more wounds to go for mutilates. The know

    Also mantakaya? I'd switch to dulak these days. I really don't think mantakaya does anything much for warriors at all now.

    Also this is personal preference but you have a lot of spammy commands I always suggest folks to do this in mudlet. Options>preferences>Input line and untick show the text you sent. It cuts down on so much spam.

    You may want to turn off mm's blocking of commands in aeon so you can attack but bear in mind standing is a cure so don't be spaming attacks with stand|strike blah or it'll cause you a fuss. If you need a macro/alias to track this message me and I'll send you one that should work for you.

    mmconfig blockcommands off
  • KalikaiKalikai Member, Moderator Posts: 114 Divine
    Kaimanahi said:
    Sorry, you're not allowed to talk about twist on the forums.
    While I believe this was said tongue in cheek, it takes two sides to have a discussion. 

    When one side has been driven to the point that they don't think further discussions will accomplish anything other than just breeding more hate, it's pretty telling that there is a deep and dark divide within the playerbase. It's even more so when the people in charge don't think said discussion will accomplish anything either and don't think trying to open up discussion is a worthwhile endeavour. Both of these mentalities drive that wedge in further and further.

    Of course, the one side that complains will just use this as further evidence that they are correct and that they are the 'reasonable' ones, which just hammers that wedge even farther, and thus the problem continues to be exacerbated instead of any mutual understanding occurring. 

    Thus, we can't have discussions about twist.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    Veyils said:
    Cyndarin said:
    As for the log vs. Veyils, you would've survived with a simple trick. Shield before you cure. It does require overriding M&M slow-curing denial, but it'll save you if they're just going straight for the asthma/anorexia lock. 

    SD has a pretty predictable rhythm. Before the final twist, they have to prep your mana, which is why she lashed you at full mana. 

    One thing I'll admit to about SDs is that their playstyle heavily favors forced solo/small engagements. 

    also: You just need more mana. 

    You can web/general offense while aeoned now without slowing your curing. If you can shield you can web and I'd bet in 90% of situations webbing would be better solo. You cure just as fast and its 3-4 seconds of hinder on the attacker.
    Damn, even better. 
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  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,536 Mythical
    Just thinking a bit but spamming broken limbs wouldn't be a bad idea if your behind a bit and want to keep your offense going but also get some breathing space. It'll only slow down for max 0-2 seconds but in most cases it'll slow a guardian/wiccan down more so than knockdown.

    Still rushing the legs to heavy would probally be the best option.
  • KaimanahiKaimanahi The One True Queen Member Posts: 718 Transcendent
    Kalikai said:
    Kaimanahi said:
    Sorry, you're not allowed to talk about twist on the forums.
    While I believe this was said tongue in cheek, it takes two sides to have a discussion. 

    When one side has been driven to the point that they don't think further discussions will accomplish anything other than just breeding more hate, it's pretty telling that there is a deep and dark divide within the playerbase. It's even more so when the people in charge don't think said discussion will accomplish anything either and don't think trying to open up discussion is a worthwhile endeavour. Both of these mentalities drive that wedge in further and further.

    Of course, the one side that complains will just use this as further evidence that they are correct and that they are the 'reasonable' ones, which just hammers that wedge even farther, and thus the problem continues to be exacerbated instead of any mutual understanding occurring. 

    Thus, we can't have discussions about twist.

    I fundamentally disagree. It takes two sides to have a debate, but it only takes two participants to have a discussion. Barring inappropriate behavior, there should not be anything stopping players from discussing a topic - gathering data, experiences, and ideas - so as to inform and develop sound opinions. The fact that the "users" don't want to participate in the thread should not preclude everyone from having a discussion.

    Who are you to say what is a worthwhile endeavor? If we want to spend our time talking about this, why can't we? I'll even be dramatic and say that that's antithesis to freedom of speech. Assuming the worst in the players - i.e., that we can't have a civil and constructive discussion - is pretty disheartening.

    @Rolsand, I'm sorry to hijack your thread. In general, I think you'll be hard-pressed to combat a burst class like Shadowdancer as an attrition class like warrior. You can try to stick disloyalty, but otherwise they'll outpace you every time. Some classes just don't excel against others in small combat situations.
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  • KalikaiKalikai Member, Moderator Posts: 114 Divine
    edited October 2017
    I should clarify that when I say people in charge, I don't mean myself. I thought we could achieve something, which is why I went for it initially. I've been disagreed with. Thus we are where we are.

    I also don't believe speaking into an echo chamber is going to accomplish anything. If 'gathering data, experiences and idea's' was all that it took to 'inform and develop sound opinions', we wouldn't be in this current state at all, would we? I don't believe so, but that's what happens when 3 sides don't give in. 

    Overall, it's pretty disappointing.
  • KaimanahiKaimanahi The One True Queen Member Posts: 718 Transcendent
    My opinion is that "the current state" is being blown out of proportion by a vocal minority, and there are otherwise plenty of people trying to be reasonable about these issues. But what do I know. I guess in the end, everyone will scatter off to their own Discord groups and say what they want to say, instead of having community discussions here.
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  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,536 Mythical
    Kaimanahi said:


    @Rolsand, I'm sorry to hijack your thread. In general, I think you'll be hard-pressed to combat a burst class like Shadowdancer as an attrition class like warrior. You can try to stick disloyalty, but otherwise they'll outpace you every time. Some classes just don't excel against others in small combat situations.

    I don't think disloyalty is a good option for warriors to pursue in a one on one situation. Its got way to much of a failure rate and no real way to stack steam. Warriors, especially two handers, have to push through shrugging and then charismatic aura to even land disloyalty. Even if you land it then its a quick smoke and gone. Warriors tend not to stick poison afflictions at all which is why you tend to be better off going for immediate effect afflictions.

    Dulak is king for this. You spit clumsy anyway so there is a small window of stacking and even without stacking stupidity can still force failure commands into secrets etc. Even pre-paralysis nerf dulak worked out as the most hindering poison, seconds wise, from a warrior over the course of a long fight.

    Warriors do struggle against guardians and wiccans overall though yes. All Guardians/Wiccans will get to their kill level a lot quicker than you ever could as a warrior. Their kill set ups are less reliable and easier to reset than wounds mind.

    The trick to fighting as a warrior is just to survive. If you can survive long enough and keep up some pressure you'll win arena fights. The way I delt with guardians/wiccans as a warrior was shielding a lot. EG Against wiccans as soon as your mana dips low enough to be a risk spam shield early till your back into the safe zone, against Illuminati you start spamming shield at moderate insanity, Celestines timed shield to avoid inquisition and just watch out for sneaky soullesses under blackout from either. Institute you don't spam shield you spam kether but sort of the same principal. If shielding isn't working just run for it until your vitals are full and your afflictions are cleared. Trackers are really good at running with pits and most warrior terts will have a few defensives you can use to tank or run. You can hit and run and build wounds and out attrition everyone eventually if you can dodge their offense.

    You'll never be able to totally counter their offense when your spamming but you just need to delay it long enough to give you a breather to catch your breath and then switch back to building wounds.

    Then once the wound levels are high enough you can use wounding afflictions to hinder more so than defensive abilities.

    Warriors are not juggernauts who can walk into a room and start smashing everyone who stays near them, if you want that thats bard and aurics. Warriors are more like Ninjas you play hit and run, slow tap and dodge, just sneak the wounds in slowly and safely. Then a few mins into the fight you can start doing the big afflictions and actually hurting the enemy.


  • SondaygaSondayga Member Posts: 55 Capable
    If anyone’s wondering. I thought my alias was ‘bray’, turns out it was ‘bcray’ so that looks hilarious until I figured out what was wrong. :smiley:

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    Sooooo this is a thread about talking about how much we aren’t talking about twist. 
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  • VersaleanVersalean Member Posts: 937 Mythical
    Image result for do the twist
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight Member Posts: 1,108 Transcendent
    edited October 2017
    Am seeing a few things ( some of which are already pointed out ):
    - I see no kafe effect when you're put to sleep in the first log, but later you have i
    - A bunch of different things I do not see highlighted that I personally would highlight:
      - people stealing your shadow
      - being blocked to move
      - being stunned by a shieldstun
    - personally at 40% health or 60% mana, I'd be ready to get myself out of the danger zone, at lot more often.
    - insomnia!
    - Your target is insufficiently wounded for your attack, and your strike lands unmodified. <== this happens a lot in the 2. log. Couldn't you do something else instead? Not much knowledge about warrior offense, sorry.
    - Generally I feel like 'more running' is something you should adopt, especially as wounds cure so slow, you could definitely use that to your advantage.
    - Might want to give your own aliases a few looks over, I've seen at least one stratagem that ran during aeon. Seeing your logs, I wonder if there's something to get m&ms last sent cure, if so, could make a trigger to resend it if you're being forced to do something that's not a cure.

    generally, though, that first log you did good surviving that long.
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,536 Mythical
    Aeldra said:

    - Your target is insufficiently wounded for your attack, and your strike lands unmodified. <== this happens a lot in the 2. log. Couldn't you do something else instead? Not much knowledge about warrior offense, sorry.

    It's not technically a bad thing. The way warriors work is if you throw out a modifier either you'll hit it and it'll do its thing or you'll fail the modifer and it'll just do wounds as normal.

    So if he wants to hit with something its ok to just try it and if it fails it builds woulds to it eventually.

    Generic Axelord advice is to double sweep the chest to get it to heavy wounds then hit with opencavity for big damage or if they are parrying the chest knock down to knock them down. Hopefully your team can keep them messed up enough to not be parrying much and if you can hit with open cavity all day long you'll kill pretty much everyone eventually.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,744 Transcendent
    Kalikai said:
    Kaimanahi said:
    Sorry, you're not allowed to talk about twist on the forums.
    .

    Of course, the one side that complains will just use this as further evidence that they are correct and that they are the 'reasonable' ones, which just hammers that wedge even farther, and thus the problem continues to be exacerbated instead of any mutual understanding occurring. 

    I just want to chime in and say this is pretty unfair of you to say. Afaik the people who didn't want to participate did agree to do it in a less public setting - that's a lot more reasonable than just saying they didn't want to, and thus we're somehow still the bad guys for wanting to have a public discussion.

    Throwing around language like "deep and dark divide" is also really, as was mentioned, blowing it out of proportion. What was it said at the end of the first attempt at the Twist thread? "Needless to say, I'm disappointed."? Something along that line?

    We are too, Kalikai. We are too.

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  • Yasei  野生Yasei 野生 Member Posts: 71 Capable
    I find it quaint that the person who posted a meme in a combat thread is marking something off-topic that is actually loosely topical.
  • KalikaiKalikai Member, Moderator Posts: 114 Divine
    edited October 2017
    Maligorn said:
    Kalikai said:
    Kaimanahi said:
    Sorry, you're not allowed to talk about twist on the forums.
    .

    Of course, the one side that complains will just use this as further evidence that they are correct and that they are the 'reasonable' ones, which just hammers that wedge even farther, and thus the problem continues to be exacerbated instead of any mutual understanding occurring. 

    I just want to chime in and say this is pretty unfair of you to say. Afaik the people who didn't want to participate did agree to do it in a less public setting - that's a lot more reasonable than just saying they didn't want to, and thus we're somehow still the bad guys for wanting to have a public discussion.

    I'm not sure how you read that statement and got 'man she's saying we're the bad guys for wanting a public discussion.' I certainly said no such thing, and in fact, I was lamenting the opposite. I didn't point any fingers and instead explained a stance that has been taken. 

    I think the more prudent issue is to look at why one side didn't want to have a public discussion and why one side opined that nothing would result from a public discussion and why one side feels ignored and stonewalled. If my statements are causing you to get defensive, especially in a way that you are misinterpreting what I am actually saying, you should probably take a step back and look at the issue at hand rather than if something is being 'blown out of proportion.' 

    All this aside, I think some good efforts are being made by various players to bridge this gap. I am happy to see this, and if this blackballing of the twist discussion pushed players to take things into their own hands, then it's going to work out. For those of you making the effort, Thank you.

    I'll be ducking out of this now.


  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited October 2017
    I think banning "complain for change" arguments is probably in everyone's best interest.

    If the original twist thread hadn't been immediately used, as in the first response, as a platform to just complain about Shadowdancers from top to bottom, perhaps it'd be another story, but given that it was I don't know how anyone could argue that it was going to be a beacon of compromise and understanding.

    Though at least there is a degree of vindication from the old as dirt players that the offspring of the Complain for Change: Choke Edition has come full circle. Well done @Shuyin.
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  • MrakMrak Member Posts: 225 Master
    edited November 2017
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/sm4QudRu

     (I'm hoping the link works, otherwise I'll try to figure it out).

     I guess I just don't know what I could have done here. I know I'm facing two affliction heavy classes, but I was pretty much debilitated for over a minute, and that's with Enadonella being chasmed halfway through. Is this a curing issue? What should I focus on fixing?
  • EjderhaEjderha Member Posts: 168 Gifted
    Mrak said:
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/sm4QudRu

     (I'm hoping the link works, otherwise I'll try to figure it out).

     I guess I just don't know what I could have done here. I know I'm facing two affliction heavy classes, but I was pretty much debilitated for over a minute, and that's with Enadonella being chasmed halfway through. Is this a curing issue? What should I focus on fixing?
    On a once through, I would say some of all of the above.

    First, credit where due, @Veyils hits you three times while you're blacked out, including her burst to open the instant kill window. You can actually tell this is happening (you still see the hemorrhage change/status lines even if you don't see the aff lines) and in theory you could have known the instant kill was incoming based on a) you were at max hemorrhaging, and b) you were then not hemorrhaging anymore. But if you were relying on warnings and echoes from the actual burst lines, then... yeah. 

    You were well hindered. You were prone/aeoned/stunned (once by geodemense, doh) writhing much of the time, and rejecting/diagnosing a lot too. You also interrupted your own smoke out of aeon trying to burrow. If you are automatically diagnosing and rejecting, I would recommend either switching to manual, or reducing the frequency, or something. If you didn't autoreject, you could have escaped after the burst and before the instantkill. In that scenario, whether or not you clear the lust is irrelevant if it ensures that you die. They were effectively using the lust as hinder, probably knowing or expecting you to autoreject.

    I would look at your ice curing priorities - you did not cure damagedthroat in particular for a LONG time at one point, meaning you couldn't sip to get out of stupidity, so you lost a LOT of time to command denial from stupidity (including back to back SECRETS procs). MMF has a doubledo setting that might help too, but I would say damagedthroat should be cured sooner (all ice affs are brutal though, so :|). SSC is also much better at handling command denial, and would have improved at least that aspect of your combat.

    Look at your bleeding handling. You never had haemophilia on diagnose, but you did not clot healing until after Veyils bursted you (under blackout) and you cured relapsing (?) at which point you were bleeding almost 3k and clotted it all at once - you would have died even sooner if a mana kill were on the table. Even at max hemorrhaging, you can still clot all of the bleeding above that amount.

    There's larger questions of group/strategy too - letting Veyils go unhindered to town as a monk on a target that doesn't move is basically a guarantee of death anyway. Why kill Ena? Why so little pressure on Veyils? Where were the gusts and webs and anything else to save you?


  • MrakMrak Member Posts: 225 Master
    Thanks!

    I don't have a deep understanding of monks (and Nekotai is unupdated on the wiki) so I didn't understand I was about to die. I actually though I was semi-safe because I saw my bleed go to 0 and I knew there were no mana killers around  :D

    I was melder, and the geomeld was because they stuck paranoia on me along with the long list of other affs. They both liberally use lust, and if I weren't auto-rejecting 1) the meld wouldn't hit, and 2) Ena would probably empress me to my doom anyway. I don't really know how to deal with this effectively. Also, I still hope some version of that lust report goes through.

    I also noted the damaged throat issue. I only recently updated my ice prios from the out-of-the-box ones, which were much worse. damagedthroat is now a little higher on my list though. That ~4 second secrets balance is brutal.

    I don't understand what is going on with bleeding, it's all mmf and gagged. I'll ungag and try to figure it out the next time a monk kills me. 

    On teamwork: yes we are bad. Ena is the easier kill by far. We are a bit overstocked with geos right now, and it doesn't seem like we have a great means of killing in small groups beyond chasm (which is near impossible with how easily nekotai pumps out blind). 
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