Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
As we move on through this year's dazzling plot arc, we in the Havens have put together a new blog post for you: a guide to participating in events! It represents the work of quite a few Gods and ephemerals alike, and we hope it will help you to engage with events both big and small.
If you have any questions regarding things we didn't cover, several of us are happy to answer them here or in the comments of the blog post (we don't get notifications for comments on the post itself, so asking here might get you a quicker answer).
You forgot "kill the gnome who crashed a ship full of slivvens into Avechna's Peak". Denizens are people too, and should be appropriately chastised for their misdeeds. Hmph. (That said, random killing of event mobs is no fun for anyone involved-- it is important to, just as for speaking-conduct, have a good reason... especially because it may throw a huge spanner in the event that requires working around). The story is a team effort, and always better when built on collaboratively.
Oooh! I wish this existed years and years ago when I first started in IRE MUDs This is handy and is very non-threatening and welcoming sounding. When I first began, I was always very intimated about being a nuisance to the events taking place or asking too many questions... mostly standing around like a lump.
Also, much internal squee'ing over the picture chosen for the post
"> :x
Zarialle's first dance:
Trader Bob leads Zarialle through the dancers to the dance floor and brings her all the way to its heart.
What are the chances of us getting less linear plots? That is to say, where the plot has more than one (or even more than two) endings? That choices we make (kill that aggressive mob that is here to 'help', doing X thing, etc) would lead to a different ending than what was originally planned or believe to be the route we players would go towards.
One thing I also found odd is that it feels that all these plots generally are going to end the same way, regardless of how we get to that point.
We would love to do plots like that, and where we can we endeavour to do so. Of course, the less linear the plot is, the more work it is - and the less measurable it is in terms of time and the amount of effort required (the question never being whether we are willing to put that much effort in, but whether we have the capacity to do so). Another problem is that the less definite the plot is, the less we can prepare in advance. Putting together denizens and rooms and items that are needed takes a lot of time.
I suspect also that the times we do leave things more open-ended are often not perceivable from your end. For example, in the most recent arc of the Sun event, had Hallifax not made itself opaque then a second area would have been fully destroyed. But this wasn't really something we could make explicit. A lot of the time when we give options this is the case - people don't see them because they never come to fruition.
Unfortunately when it comes down to it we have to consider the logistics of plots in tandem with what we would like to do. We do try with events to push the boat out, experiment with new structures, and step beyond the realm of 'kill these mobs and turn them in to X'. We absolutely want you to feel that you have agency and are playing in an open world, not one confined by the realities of what - for example - we can and cannot code. It is something that we are constantly working on and, I hope, improving on. Between us we all have a lot of years of experience in running roleplaying events, but we are learning every single day.
One final thing to bear in mind regarding linear plots is that sometimes we put stages in events that are totally open ended and...no one does anything. A lot of people want the guidance of an event mob turning up and saying "we can fix everything if you...". That's why taking initiative in events is so important. You may find that by stepping forward, you end up building a giant cannon and blowing up a mountain! The worst case scenario is that we gently encourage you away from it and towards the structure we have, if it's not an open-ended section. But you'll never find out if you don't try.
For example, in the most recent arc of the Sun event, had Hallifax not made itself opaque then a second area would have been fully destroyed. But this wasn't really something we could make explicit.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
For example, in the most recent arc of the Sun event, had Hallifax not made itself opaque then a second area would have been fully destroyed. But this wasn't really something we could make explicit.
Hey, that almost makes up for the time Hallifax turned itself into a giant bomb and fell from the sky, killing everyone everywhere.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
2
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
"Communicate within your organisations. Write newsposts, talk to people to make sure they're up-to-date."
*sigh*, if only . /forumrp
I do love the open-ended stuff, or the things that change mid-event due to player initiative! They make the world feel alive . It feels like we've had more of that recently.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I generally don't care for events. They either run when I can't make them, or there's fifty billion people there, and I don't care for one upping one another to get an event mention.
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I generally don't care for events. They either run when I can't make them, or there's fifty billion people there, and I don't care for one upping one another to get an event mention.
Strike out on your own, investigate where no one else is. I generally don't follow the crowd, either.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I'm bad enough at existing linear do-X-then-get-Y quests to know I would be an utter moron during any event.
In fact the one event I took part in was during the Gnafia Year End prophecy nonsense, and a mob explicitly told us our translation of the prophecy was completely wrong. Which was honestly a relief because we were trying to raise the Hand in like an hour, lmao. WHOOPS.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I generally don't care for events. They either run when I can't make them, or there's fifty billion people there, and I don't care for one upping one another to get an event mention.
Strike out on your own, investigate where no one else is. I generally don't follow the crowd, either.
Alternatively, I can go play through my backlog until the mess quiets down
What are the chances of us getting less linear plots? That is to say, where the plot has more than one (or even more than two) endings? That choices we make (kill that aggressive mob that is here to 'help', doing X thing, etc) would lead to a different ending than what was originally planned or believe to be the route we players would go towards.
One thing I also found odd is that it feels that all these plots generally are going to end the same way, regardless of how we get to that point.
----
I have been thinking long and hard about this post. To preface, I will say, I completely and 100% agree with everything that @Maylea said in response. We definitely do try to provide a more “open-ended” experience to events, but a lot of the time, logistics prevents us from doing this. So what we do is conceive of an event and try to give you as much agency as possible. As Maylea mentioned, in the most recent event, you had all the power to save a selection of areas, and it is precisely because of certain outcomes, player responses, etc. that it ended up being the case that the Observatory was destroyed altogether and the Presidio discovered it lacked fire coverage in their Home Insurance.
One of the things I noticed is that it is not necessarily the case that there aren’t end result options for players (i.e. multiple designed outcomes), but rather, sometimes, we forget that there is more player agency that is not immediately observed. What I mean is that a lot of the time, players seem to think that all there needs to be done is either kill mobs, influence mobs, wait for mobs to speak (this last point in particular is something I distinctly remember witnessing, where one player asked two others what we should do to prepare if Sun attacked again and one of the two said: idk, let's wait it out). This may be entirely because of the construction of our events and Lusternia’s history of doing events, mind you, but I think it is often forgotten that speaking to mobs and emoting (as in the use of the EMOTE command) has an impact.
Why did Project Guardian or Eclipse happen? Because players started talking and emoting. They took initiative. Another really good example of this was in the most recent event where everyone was trying to get in contact with the Dawnburst Druids. We actually didn’t have an idea on how that was going to happen. But in the course of the event, a bunch of players sought out gardener/druid-types. One in particular (@Crek, I am calling you out), talked to Amhika Rotwood who literally said: aren’t you a druid? Why don’t you try? And he did. He, then later @Versalean and @Demartel, emoted at the tree and got special information that no one else in the room was getting. Sometimes events require players taking that chance that might inspire admin to follow your lead.
I think a lot of the times, we as players (and I place myself in this position too) find ourselves so bound by the mechanics that we forget that emoting actually means something as has “material weight” during event times. Don’t get me wrong, certain things will probably be prevented because otherwise they would just make things SO MUCH HARDER, but I think generally we (here I am talking admin, specifically) are open to see where the role-play takes us too.
It is definitely a difficult balance we are trying achieve, and maybe it might be nice to have a conversation about that in a different thread. I know we are going to continue thinking about this more as the year(s) go on.
I think something that throws us off as mortals is that we aren't often aware that an event can go multiple ways. A prime example of this is the Forsaken/Ice Angel quest line, where we were almost railroaded into helping the Ice Angels until it was too late. I'm not pointing a finger at the admin, don't get me wrong. As I recall, the roads filled up with smoke/steam/evil stuff and we were told that if we didn't help clear it, Something Bad Would Happen (c). At no point did we get any indication that the steam/smoke was technically the good guys, nor that we had a choice.
In contrast, we have the latest event. The druids SEEM on the up and up, but there's a clear indication that it's acceptable to oppose them, or be suspicious of them. I understand that the admin don't want to give too many clues to the event line, but giving us some way to know that there are multiple paths would be great.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
What are the chances of us getting less linear plots? That is to say, where the plot has more than one (or even more than two) endings? That choices we make (kill that aggressive mob that is here to 'help', doing X thing, etc) would lead to a different ending than what was originally planned or believe to be the route we players would go towards.
One thing I also found odd is that it feels that all these plots generally are going to end the same way, regardless of how we get to that point.
----
I have been thinking long and hard about this post. To preface, I will say, I completely and 100% agree with everything that @Maylea said in response. We definitely do try to provide a more “open-ended” experience to events, but a lot of the time, logistics prevents us from doing this. So what we do is conceive of an event and try to give you as much agency as possible. As Maylea mentioned, in the most recent event, you had all the power to save a selection of areas, and it is precisely because of certain outcomes, player responses, etc. that it ended up being the case that the Observatory was destroyed altogether and the Presidio discovered it lacked fire coverage in their Home Insurance.
One of the things I noticed is that it is not necessarily the case that there aren’t end result options for players (i.e. multiple designed outcomes), but rather, sometimes, we forget that there is more player agency that is not immediately observed. What I mean is that a lot of the time, players seem to think that all there needs to be done is either kill mobs, influence mobs, wait for mobs to speak (this last point in particular is something I distinctly remember witnessing, where one player asked two others what we should do to prepare if Sun attacked again and one of the two said: idk, let's wait it out). This may be entirely because of the construction of our events and Lusternia’s history of doing events, mind you, but I think it is often forgotten that speaking to mobs and emoting (as in the use of the EMOTE command) has an impact.
Why did Project Guardian or Eclipse happen? Because players started talking and emoting. They took initiative. Another really good example of this was in the most recent event where everyone was trying to get in contact with the Dawnburst Druids. We actually didn’t have an idea on how that was going to happen. But in the course of the event, a bunch of players sought out gardener/druid-types. One in particular (@Crek, I am calling you out), talked to Amhika Rotwood who literally said: aren’t you a druid? Why don’t you try? And he did. He, then later @Versalean and @Demartel, emoted at the tree and got special information that no one else in the room was getting. Sometimes events require players taking that chance that might inspire admin to follow your lead.
I think a lot of the times, we as players (and I place myself in this position too) find ourselves so bound by the mechanics that we forget that emoting actually means something as has “material weight” during event times. Don’t get me wrong, certain things will probably be prevented because otherwise they would just make things SO MUCH HARDER, but I think generally we (here I am talking admin, specifically) are open to see where the role-play takes us too.
It is definitely a difficult balance we are trying achieve, and maybe it might be nice to have a conversation about that in a different thread. I know we are going to continue thinking about this more as the year(s) go on.
----------------------- All very interesting. From this, I raise another question, @Hoaracle , what is the policy on making events in what has to be hardcoded (Killing things and gathering essence) and what can be freehand (via EMOTE or similar room message command); Would we ever see an event is nearly done via EMOTEs?
On the killing things/gathering essence - I can't remember where it was said, but at one point we were told this is more of a delay tactic on the admin side when things are progressing too fast and you haven't worked out things that far before. Why is this sometimes the case that you haven't worked out that far (In an ideal world, I assumed that you would have a general idea of the whole event and it can progress at whatever speed it does and you pause it when you get tired for the night or whatever and have the NPC 'go away for a bit').
On the question itself, I suspect the answer is probably low due to the 'allow as many people to take part' ideal that events generally have. I think these ideals probably stems from the mechanical nature of the game being more X action has to be hardcoded rather than just something that is emitted to the room (something like the Hallifax statue thing during the dream event.) due to the number of players being part of each event.
Perhaps it is because of how most of Lusternia's events are wait for mobs to speak and do what they say just so the event goes on and this will always be a thing because not everyone has X RP view on events (both OOC and IC views). And as Shaddus said, most of the events seem to only have one NPC group and it is either 'help them or not' and I think most players feel maybe guilty if they go the 'or not' route about the event just dying off there and the admin's plotting time wasted so they go the 'help' route even if it is something they might not want to do.
We've had a lot of events that are almost entirely emote / RP, with only a little bit of "something for players to do" thrown in as an aside (generally feeling to me to be a "this is to give us a little time to set up the event conclusion").
Shout out to everyone involved in Aegis of Vesterra(old event I know)! But after reading Hoaracle's post, I definitely can say that emoting/interacting with NPCs has an impact. I was just in dreambody and emoting with the npc(unsure if admins see dreambodies) but the mob responded so I played along with it. I'm not sure how the recent events played out but it's pretty cool and terrifying that events can destroy 'established' areas! I regret not doing the Observatory quest now. That being said, I like this approach(at least as someone who just got back)!
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
#bringShikariback
2
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
We were later told after the Dream event that the incident with Tokota being attacked and Adushoc running in to save him was entirely made up on the spot based on our interactions, and the impact of that is still being played out today (I'm waiting on a wedding!). More than I remember in my first years here, I've been pleased with the liberty and freedom of recent events.
It may also be that what we see as a singular, inevitable line of an event may instead simply be the line we players set, and we'd never know what other options were out there.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
We've had a lot of events that are almost entirely emote / RP, with only a little bit of "something for players to do" thrown in as an aside (generally feeling to me to be a "this is to give us a little time to set up the event conclusion").
When I said entirely emote, I meant the player side of things is emoted as well, not the god just emoting the event to us.
We've had a lot of events that are almost entirely emote / RP, with only a little bit of "something for players to do" thrown in as an aside (generally feeling to me to be a "this is to give us a little time to set up the event conclusion").
When I said entirely emote, I meant the player side of things is emoted as well, not the god just emoting the event to us.
So do I. It's not like all of us just sit around like lumps on a log while events are going on!
We've had a lot of events that are almost entirely emote / RP, with only a little bit of "something for players to do" thrown in as an aside (generally feeling to me to be a "this is to give us a little time to set up the event conclusion").
When I said entirely emote, I meant the player side of things is emoted as well, not the god just emoting the event to us.
So do I. It's not like all of us just sit around like lumps on a log while events are going on!
Ah. When you said 'only a little bit of something for players to do' I took it as the event being mostly emoted from the god.
We've had a lot of events that are almost entirely emote / RP, with only a little bit of "something for players to do" thrown in as an aside (generally feeling to me to be a "this is to give us a little time to set up the event conclusion").
When I said entirely emote, I meant the player side of things is emoted as well, not the god just emoting the event to us.
So do I. It's not like all of us just sit around like lumps on a log while events are going on!
Ah. When you said 'only a little bit of something for players to do' I took it as the event being mostly emoted from the god.
Nah, the "something for players to do" is referring to the hardcoded generic "go do something repetitive for a while until I'm ready to continue". As in, keeping us busy doing makework. The rest of it is freeform, investigation, RP, etc. and often comprises the bulk of the event.
Shout out to everyone involved in Aegis of Vesterra(old event I know)! But after reading Hoaracle's post, I definitely can say that emoting/interacting with NPCs has an impact. I was just in dreambody and emoting with the npc(unsure if admins see dreambodies) but the mob responded so I played along with it. I'm not sure how the recent events played out but it's pretty cool and terrifying that events can destroy 'established' areas! I regret not doing the Observatory quest now. That being said, I like this approach(at least as someone who just got back)!
It is indeed possible for us to see dreambodies, though it is not as easy for us to do so as with "normal" speech. That event was particularly difficult for the admin involved as it was necessary that a lot of the interaction be conducted both with people in dreambody and people out of it, often simultaneously. There were a number of technical difficulties in doing so; for example, our usual way of sending you personal or room-wide messages did not work on those in dreambody. Alternative versions had to be coded to make the area work, as well as remembering to use them during the event itself - whilst also doing dozens of other things.
Returning to the main point of discussion - I do believe that there are a lot of events that are, for want of a better way of putting it, conducted primarily through emotes and says. However I would say that these are generally smaller ones, or fragments of wider events. What there are not quite as many of are world events conducted in this way - and this again is a logistics thing. As has been mentioned, we want to engage as many people as possible in the event. It is exceptionally hard to do this purely through says/emote interaction. There are often upwards of fifty people engaged in world events, and not all of them can simultaneously engage with denizens in that manner.
That said, I really think it's something we can push for and work on, especially knowing that it is something people want to see more of.
Comments
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
if you received some hate mail origami as @Sciomore, it was me!
please don't take it personally!
One thing I also found odd is that it feels that all these plots generally are going to end the same way, regardless of how we get to that point.
Hey, that almost makes up for the time Hallifax turned itself into a giant bomb and fell from the sky, killing everyone everywhere.
*sigh*, if only
I do love the open-ended stuff, or the things that change mid-event due to player initiative! They make the world feel alive
Alternatively, I can go play through my backlog until the mess quiets down
I have been thinking long and hard about this post. To preface, I will say, I completely and 100% agree with everything that @Maylea said in response. We definitely do try to provide a more “open-ended” experience to events, but a lot of the time, logistics prevents us from doing this. So what we do is conceive of an event and try to give you as much agency as possible. As Maylea mentioned, in the most recent event, you had all the power to save a selection of areas, and it is precisely because of certain outcomes, player responses, etc. that it ended up being the case that the Observatory was destroyed altogether and the Presidio discovered it lacked fire coverage in their Home Insurance.
One of the things I noticed is that it is not necessarily the case that there aren’t end result options for players (i.e. multiple designed outcomes), but rather, sometimes, we forget that there is more player agency that is not immediately observed. What I mean is that a lot of the time, players seem to think that all there needs to be done is either kill mobs, influence mobs, wait for mobs to speak (this last point in particular is something I distinctly remember witnessing, where one player asked two others what we should do to prepare if Sun attacked again and one of the two said: idk, let's wait it out). This may be entirely because of the construction of our events and Lusternia’s history of doing events, mind you, but I think it is often forgotten that speaking to mobs and emoting (as in the use of the EMOTE command) has an impact.
Why did Project Guardian or Eclipse happen? Because players started talking and emoting. They took initiative. Another really good example of this was in the most recent event where everyone was trying to get in contact with the Dawnburst Druids. We actually didn’t have an idea on how that was going to happen. But in the course of the event, a bunch of players sought out gardener/druid-types. One in particular (@Crek, I am calling you out), talked to Amhika Rotwood who literally said: aren’t you a druid? Why don’t you try? And he did. He, then later @Versalean and @Demartel, emoted at the tree and got special information that no one else in the room was getting. Sometimes events require players taking that chance that might inspire admin to follow your lead.
I think a lot of the times, we as players (and I place myself in this position too) find ourselves so bound by the mechanics that we forget that emoting actually means something as has “material weight” during event times. Don’t get me wrong, certain things will probably be prevented because otherwise they would just make things SO MUCH HARDER, but I think generally we (here I am talking admin, specifically) are open to see where the role-play takes us too.
It is definitely a difficult balance we are trying achieve, and maybe it might be nice to have a conversation about that in a different thread. I know we are going to continue thinking about this more as the year(s) go on.
In contrast, we have the latest event. The druids SEEM on the up and up, but there's a clear indication that it's acceptable to oppose them, or be suspicious of them. I understand that the admin don't want to give too many clues to the event line, but giving us some way to know that there are multiple paths would be great.
All very interesting. From this, I raise another question, @Hoaracle , what is the policy on making events in what has to be hardcoded (Killing things and gathering essence) and what can be freehand (via EMOTE or similar room message command); Would we ever see an event is nearly done via EMOTEs?
On the killing things/gathering essence - I can't remember where it was said, but at one point we were told this is more of a delay tactic on the admin side when things are progressing too fast and you haven't worked out things that far before. Why is this sometimes the case that you haven't worked out that far (In an ideal world, I assumed that you would have a general idea of the whole event and it can progress at whatever speed it does and you pause it when you get tired for the night or whatever and have the NPC 'go away for a bit').
On the question itself, I suspect the answer is probably low due to the 'allow as many people to take part' ideal that events generally have. I think these ideals probably stems from the mechanical nature of the game being more X action has to be hardcoded rather than just something that is emitted to the room (something like the Hallifax statue thing during the dream event.) due to the number of players being part of each event.
Perhaps it is because of how most of Lusternia's events are wait for mobs to speak and do what they say just so the event goes on and this will always be a thing because not everyone has X RP view on events (both OOC and IC views). And as Shaddus said, most of the events seem to only have one NPC group and it is either 'help them or not' and I think most players feel maybe guilty if they go the 'or not' route about the event just dying off there and the admin's plotting time wasted so they go the 'help' route even if it is something they might not want to do.
It may also be that what we see as a singular, inevitable line of an event may instead simply be the line we players set, and we'd never know what other options were out there.
Nah, the "something for players to do" is referring to the hardcoded generic "go do something repetitive for a while until I'm ready to continue". As in, keeping us busy doing makework. The rest of it is freeform, investigation, RP, etc. and often comprises the bulk of the event.
Returning to the main point of discussion - I do believe that there are a lot of events that are, for want of a better way of putting it, conducted primarily through emotes and says. However I would say that these are generally smaller ones, or fragments of wider events. What there are not quite as many of are world events conducted in this way - and this again is a logistics thing. As has been mentioned, we want to engage as many people as possible in the event. It is exceptionally hard to do this purely through says/emote interaction. There are often upwards of fifty people engaged in world events, and not all of them can simultaneously engage with denizens in that manner.
That said, I really think it's something we can push for and work on, especially knowing that it is something people want to see more of.