Saracen Combat & Utility System

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  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    Is why I am laughing. A small minority are hating on it, and the rest are all like..... 'Mmmmm. Genrunner'

    >.>

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
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  • EventruEventru Member, Gods Posts: 719 Divine
    edited May 2013
    Eventru said:

    What is not allowed?

    Auto ratting, auto weeviling, auto questing, auto bashing, auto aetherspace 
    hunting (and auto pretty much everything else).

    So are we saying that Saracen is illegal now?

    I thought we had it very clear-cut here. It's fine and is down to each player's use of said scripts. It's certainly not outside of the bounds of game rules in my selling it.
    "We" don't have anything – I'm merely stating what the given policies of Lusternia are. As I've said since the beginning, using scripts that allow you to collect gold and experience while AFK, whether or not you are AFK, are not allowed. Somewhere along the lines you don't seem to be getting that, it seems. It is virtually impossible to enforce while someone is at the keyboard, however the bashing service Saracen provides is in direct contradiction to the stated policies as outlined in HELP AFK. You are completely welcome to provide this service, as we do not have a policy against it; however, as I said, buyer beware - using it can get you shrubbed. Not "can" as in "it's okay to use if you're at the keyboard," but "can" as in "if you're found using it, you'll be punished."

    A couple of the admin who handle policy and the like to the greatest extent are going to be looking in to your claims of permission. I've other things to do with my day than keep repeating the same – clearly posted – policies, heh.
  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    Eventru said:
    Somewhere along the lines you don't seem to be getting that, it seems.
    Oh, on the contrary. I completely get it. I just fail to see the reasoning behind the hate of a basic SCRIPT. Everybody has them. It's nothing new, heh.

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
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  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    Eventru said:
    A couple of the admin who handle policy and the like to the greatest extent are going to be looking in to your claims of permission. I
    I even went so far as to save the issue. Forget which char it's on. Likely Dray, but yeah...

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
    HTML game logging site: http://www.logsty.com (feedback@logsty.com)
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  • MaliciaMalicia Member Posts: 36 Apprentice
    Eventru said:
    Alright kids, this has gone on long enough.
    HELP TRIGGERS and the like clearly state automated gold or experience gain is illegal – yes, I know people use them. Yes, it is quite difficult to prove when you're at the computer. However, inevitably you will do it without being at the computer, you will get caught, and you will not like it. Adding a "start" button for each room is a nice way to minimize abuse, but it doesn't nullify it – just because you used a start button on a stack of 300 guards doesn't make it okay for you to go make a sandwich.
    The sale of scripts that encourage activity against the game policy is currently allowed – however, buyer beware. Just because you bought an automatic rifle legal doesn't mean you can run through a populated mall using it. Using these sort of scripts is "at your own risk" – if you are found, you'll be punished and that's entirely on you; it's not Saracen's fault, nor Draylor's fault, that he gave you the ability to "cheat" and you used it and got caught. I personally question the morality of selling something you know is illegal to use, but there it is; people will buy anything if they feel it gets them a one-up. By our very nature, human beings are painfully short-sighted.
    All I've done is reiterate policies clearly stated in help files – policies that are not news to any of you. I don't understand the debate – if Draylor's wants to offer it, that's his decision. If we catch people using it and they start saying "but I paid credits for it", it'll be up to those who handle these policies to (once again) review our position on sales of systems with auto basher scripts. Crown ran into this problem, and Saracen may too. Alas, I left my crystal ball at home today.
    The bolded is the only important thing in this entire thread. Trying to beat up on Draylor for creating a legal script is rather silly- whatever happened to personal accountability? Plenty of players use fully automated aetherbashing (piloting/slivvening/turret/healing/siphoning/targeting), influencing (that yes, moves them to another room if they run low on ego or have completed a stack) and bashing scripts. As an aside, aetherbashing is simply ridiculous because the scripts I've seen allow you to sit at a module completely hands-free with much less risk and resources invested when compared to other forms of xp-gain.

    Auto-anything is illegal and if you get caught, that's on you.



  • IasmosIasmos Member Posts: 461 Virtuoso
    I want a SPISPOPD alias to toggle walking through hidden exits.

  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    lol, Iasmos. That made me chuckle heartily, mate. >.>

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
    HTML game logging site: http://www.logsty.com (feedback@logsty.com)
    The answer to life, the universe, and everything: http://www.google.com
  • LlandrosLlandros Member Posts: 457 Gifted
    If you have automated something that gets you experience or gold and someone from the admin pops over to say hi and you don't respond, you will have a very bad day.

    Can people sell stuff like that, sure. Can people ruin or lose their beloved alter-ego over something foolish using it, sure.

    Lusternia is theme based first and then balanced out as best can be. This presents challenges but it also makes for an immersive experience.

    The result is that people who live to min/max have a disproportionately negative effect here. People gaming the mechanics instead of enjoying the game are missing the point and aren't doing any favors to their fellow players.

    As long as people are aware of the consequences then whatever. The nice thing about an RP heavy realm though is that actions have repercussions beyond getting issued. Clear cutting whole areas in record time and keeping guards perma influenced will have the most curious effect of having people grow to resent you. But if such is the price of greatness then who cares right? 

    image
  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    Look, the bottom line is this, "Yes, while I might be fully aware of the implications in releasing Saracen and its capabilities, please do not hold me accountable for the actions of a -very- small few who might break the game laws".

    To the admin, I will say this, "Yes, I think we both know where we stand on this, and the extra work that may go into policing Saracen might not be to your liking, but look at this from a general perspective... -Most- players want this. It's not like this is a very small subset who will benefit. This clearly has far-reaching and possible adverse consequences for a number of players, and such use that Saracen might see will cause a furthering in your internal policing. That is not to say that Saracen is a bad thing! I, and the rest of the Pharanyx coding team firmly believe that the options available in Saracen will go a long way into improving PvP interaction and bring it into a whole new level. This is surely not a bad thing!"

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
    HTML game logging site: http://www.logsty.com (feedback@logsty.com)
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  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    But like, yeah. I'd like to finish my spiel with the following: TURRET FIRE.

    Enough said. Let's move on.

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
    HTML game logging site: http://www.logsty.com (feedback@logsty.com)
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  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    Quick question, seems like a relevant place:

    Whats the difference between auto-influencing (like, auto influencing a stack of 40 guards at the Megalith), auto-bashing and auto-aetherbashing?

    If auto-aetherbashing were illegal, 90% of us would be shrubbed.
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  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    edited May 2013
    To those interested, we are now inducting into the Saracen clan in game. We will mostly be discussing bugs and further features, though if you feel you have anything to contribute, please do feel free to request admission at this time.

    You may do so by messaging me here, contacting me via the support address below or simply messaging 'Hawst' in game...

    Thanks.

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
    HTML game logging site: http://www.logsty.com (feedback@logsty.com)
    The answer to life, the universe, and everything: http://www.google.com
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    edited May 2013

    Silvanus said:
    Quick question, seems like a relevant place:

    Whats the difference between auto-influencing (like, auto influencing a stack of 40 guards at the Megalith), auto-bashing and auto-aetherbashing?

    If auto-aetherbashing were illegal, 90% of us would be shrubbed.
    Technically, it is illegal to fully automate aetherhunting. Yes, 90% of us do it (if not more). Far fewer actually go AFK while aetherhunting though, and those are the people the admins go after when they do AFK checks.

    The big difference between aetherhunting and bashing/influencing is that there is no contest when it comes to aetherhunting; if you don't fire your turret, everyone suffers from it. You don't gain more from it than anyone else just because you fire quicker. For bashing and influencing, however, it's a solo experience (in the vast majority of cases), meaning people who automate it (and are thus far quicker, and perhaps even "steal kills" from others; does Saracen check for that?) actually hurts others in the process. That's not even including stuff like Great Hunts, where hundreds of credits can be won and lost based on a couple of kills.
    image
  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    Just to clarify, no, Saracen will not 'steal kills' although there is a toggle for this, should the user desire it.

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
    HTML game logging site: http://www.logsty.com (feedback@logsty.com)
    The answer to life, the universe, and everything: http://www.google.com
  • MaliciaMalicia Member Posts: 36 Apprentice
    Someone give that man a cookie. Hi Silvanus
    Ssaliss said:

    Silvanus said:
    Quick question, seems like a relevant place:

    Whats the difference between auto-influencing (like, auto influencing a stack of 40 guards at the Megalith), auto-bashing and auto-aetherbashing?

    If auto-aetherbashing were illegal, 90% of us would be shrubbed.
    Technically, it is illegal to fully automate aetherhunting. Yes, 90% of us do it (if not more). Far fewer actually go AFK while aetherhunting though, and those are the people the admins go after when they do AFK checks.

    The big difference between aetherhunting and bashing/influencing is that there is no contest when it comes to aetherhunting; if you don't fire your turret, everyone suffers from it. You don't gain more from it than anyone else just because you fire quicker. For bashing and influencing, however, it's a solo experience (in the vast majority of cases), meaning people who automate it (and are thus far quicker, and perhaps even "steal kills" from others; does Saracen check for that?) actually hurts others in the process. That's not even including stuff like Great Hunts, where hundreds of credits can be won and lost based on a couple of kills.
    Where's your data to support this, Ssaliss? You cannot honestly say that you know for certain that 'far fewer go AFK while aetherbashing' or that you know when the admin are performing AFK-checks.

    You basically posted a paragraph that seems to justify auto-aetherbashing when others are raising hell about auto-bashing. Both are equally illegal, sorry. Sitting at a module hands-free, no sips wasted, very little risk from pvp or 'kill steals' for the easiest xp in all of IRE seems worse, imo.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    What I meant was "far fewer than the 90% who automate aetherhunting go AFK", and I base that on my own experiences. The admins aren't the only ones doing AFK checks, y'know.

    As for justifying auto-aetherbashing... I did state that both are illegal, didn't I? I'm not trying to say anything else. I also stated the differences between auto-aetherhunting and auto-bashing or auto-influencing in my paragraph above, so I see no real reason to repeat that.
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  • MaliciaMalicia Member Posts: 36 Apprentice
    Well there's no difference really. One is just easier than the other. I think that was the point Silvanus was trying to make.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Except I just pointed out several differences. But I guess we'll just not see eye-to-eye on this one, so I'll leave it be.
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  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess Member Posts: 2,927 Transcendent
    Malicia said:
    Well there's no difference really. One is just easier than the other. I think that was the point Silvanus was trying to make.
    Well, we know all about the Celest demi trains going on these days. I, for one, if I'm piloting will run AFK checks at random intervals varying between 10 and 30 minutes. If I catch you AFK on a module in an aethership I'm on, you will die and you will never see the inside of a ship I'm piloting. While I'm piloting, I can hardly do much other than pilot as it is a rather invested endeavour in and of itself, but I do prefer to listen to the chat of others on the craft than stare at the map that changes every 8-9 seconds, plus it makes for a much more fun experience. And no, my aethership piloting is 100% manual with just a couple of highlights and a target calling trigger.

    It is probably one of the reasons I no longer do a whole lot of piloting these days. It tends to get frustrating when after 2-3 hours, I'm feeling like my eyes are about to pop out of my head, but eh... whatever, life goes on.
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