Waste Facility Zombies

RagniliffRagniliff Member Posts: 87 Adept
I saw the posts in tweets, and decided to turn it into it's own thread instead of dragging tweets out further over the matter.

Anyone who's talked to me about it knows I hate this area and the concept behind it, along with the basis for how it works. I think there's two things that can be done to make the whole thing a lot more acceptable, though.

1. Make killing zombies in the Waste Facility dramatically reduce the spawn rate of the Highway zombies.

I think it is safe to say that most people who do the quest do it to have more things to bash/make more gold. These people tend to go only into the Waste Facility. Why? Probably because fewer people have access to it, and there are fewer that can handle the additional mobs alone. It doesn't make sense to cut them down at the source only to have more appear mysteriously on the roads. This would also provide some incentive for clearing out the highways before the Facility, instead of vice-versa.

2. Reduce the amount of gold carried/generated by zombies in the Facility proper. Let it remain the same for zombies outside of the facility.

This one is bound to be a lot less popular, but I feel like the Facility as a whole adds a lot of extra gold to the game, which makes it into a rather select number of hands. I think that, at the least, zombies that have made it onto the highways -should- have more gold, because they've had time to go marauding about the countryside and such. Zombies that have been stuffed away in trash for centuries should not.

The quest currently gives incentives for inconveniencing other people. I think these two things would at least give incentive on keeping the highways cleared first, which is generally better for everyone on the whole instead of the people with enough DMP or the right damage types in their attacks.
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Comments

  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,263 Transcendent
    Personally, I'd like to see the highway zombies outright removed or made totally non-aggressive. This may be a sign of my own incompetence more than anything else, but if the zombies are out I cannot go on the highways without dying.

    I really have similar feelings regarding every sort of extremely high level thing that's aggressive and gets to places that people who can't handle them are quite likely to go. I know that when the roads and mountains were recently full of wraiths and so forth I was essentially locked down in Hallifax and couldn't do much of anything except wait for the event to run its course. This was highly annoying.

    I do understand that demigods need things that are based around them, but I think that the things that are balanced around demigods should be kept where they can't render large parts of the game unplayable for the rest of us. Discrete areas are fine and dandy, since if nothing else we can go in once, die, and realize not to go there again. But transit areas like the highways and the mountains are, in my opinion, a bad idea.

    Again, the problems and thus annoyance I've been having with this lately might come down to my own incompetence rather than being inherent to the design, but that strikes me as unlikely if other people have problems with it as well.
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  • ZvoltzZvoltz Member, Gods Posts: 401 Divine
    @Ragniliff Thanks for making a new topic!

    Changing the gold carried by zombies isn't really a possibility because it is based on their level and how long since they have last been killed. I'm open to looking into other solutions if this is perceived to be a large problem. Zombies probably aren't going to be made non-agressive or be removed from the highway, though.

  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 958 Mythical

    Is it possible to contain them to certain sections of the highway? South of the Shallach river, for example. The big problem right now is that people who are not prepared for zombies end up walking down Avechna's Peak or the Emerald Road and walk face first into a group of 3+ zombies that are each individually too much for them to handle.

  • KabinaKabina Member Posts: 54 Novice
    edited November 2012
    Life is risky, you walk to the shop, some guy mugs you. Why remove that element of realism from the game... Plus isn't it exciting that you might go to your place of hunting and it might not be the same! I know during the event with Stepasha, my hunting was amazing because sometimes, just sometimes, I got a surprise when I went to hunt or get pilgrims. I enjoy that element.
    (Most of what I had to say is in the other topic. So I will not post it here as to avoid from repeating myself.)
  • RagniliffRagniliff Member Posts: 87 Adept
    Zvoltz said:
    @Ragniliff Thanks for making a new topic!

    Changing the gold carried by zombies isn't really a possibility because it is based on their level and how long since they have last been killed. I'm open to looking into other solutions if this is perceived to be a large problem. Zombies probably aren't going to be made non-agressive or be removed from the highway, though.
    Yeah, I figured that would be the case.

    Kabina made good points, but it is also important to remember that he was some of the best setup for a low level, low resource player to deal with these mobs. He's a Tae'dae, he has plate, and he uses a weapon which does cutting damage. There are plenty of players around his level and might who I think find themselves needing to completely avoid Ackleberry Highway as a result, which gets problematic and annoying when they are there -all of the time-.

    If my suggestions aren't feasible, then I think you need to look into the benefits of sealing them. As I said prior, I believe people release them (and keep them) out mostly to have more things to bash, and especially for the extra gold revenue. You also get the Ring of Vestera. 

    How does that compare to sealing the zombies? 

    Sure, there's the blessing you can get from the machine, but it is lesser than the Urlach Throne, which will generally make it undesirable to people who are actually capable of finishing the Waste Facility (in fact, a lot of people would probably need the Throne blessing just to tank through the Facility). Worse, the machine is clearly of tainted and necromantic origins, so that makes using the blessing from it even less appealing to a large number of people.

    There is very, very little incentive to sealing the zombies, apart from the consideration of other players. That has been the sole logic behind my motivations each time I've done the quest. I'm not even sure if (of recent) other players have consistently or regularly done the sealing besides me - I know I've done it no less than half a dozen times so far, and it grates on my nerves and irritates me more every time I feel obliged to do it again. 

    Waiting for the right cogs to repop isn't fun. Being forced to influence mobs with highly resistant ego in order to get cogs (which, for some ridiculous decision, you can't claim by killing them) is not fun. Waiting for Afmecia to come back is not fun.

    I'm not doing the quest anymore. I'll just kill zombies and make gobs of gold and essence when I feel like it, since it seems like most everyone else is keen on keeping it open. When there is more balance between the quest rewards, maybe the people who should sensibly have RP reason to keep the damn place sealed will start doing so. As for me? Nope. Not anymore.

    We'll see how that goes.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,702 Transcendent
    It may possibly be too easy to release them. Last week Celina said she did so "by accident".

    Another thing I would like to see done is... when vaults are closed, reduce the maximum number of zombies that can spawn by a fifth. The time I closed it, there were tons of zombies upon the road, but all the vaults (except the last one) were already closed.

    PS, I fully agree with the assertion that the counter quest is way more frustrating than it should be. The only real reward: no more zombies on the road. Since I personally can tank them, it means that I am grinding hundreds of zombies for hours (bleep those cogs) for no gain except to help out squishier people.

    That's fine every now and then, but not when they are released this frequently. I too plan to just not bother.
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  • KabinaKabina Member Posts: 54 Novice
    edited November 2012
    Yay more for me.

    In all seriousness, they are good as offerings, good for coins, and good for experience, thus I am quite the fan of them when they are about, but as Ragniliff said, I may be a bit strong for my level or whatever... Which is good! Because that is exactly what I wanted when I made the character, Someone who would be a bit stupid, but could hit stuff hard. But even if I could not fight them alone I would still be supportive of it, since it adds the "Risk" element to the game. If you start removing them elements, then it becomes a bit... well, it might as well be Peace-ternia.

    EDIT: As a side note, they do not attack me, and I am level 70, and I read elsewhere they do not attack novices, so really I see no issue with them.
  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    I love grinding zombie. Want more.

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  • KalaneyaKalaneya Member Posts: 261 Master
    Last couple of times I've gone to hunt them, they haven't been aggressive either, oddly. I remember getting clobbered the first several times the zombies were around.

    I keep telling myself to go seal the quest if I get the requisite items from killing the zombies, but I never seem to get enough cogs and to be honest, I like having the zombies around just for ease of easy somewhat high-level bashing, gold, and essence.  My cynicism tells me this statement (and statements like it) will probably work more towards getting the quest changed than anything concerning the actual balance of the quest. I suspect others feel the same, else they wouldn't keep releasing the zombies.
  • AlondalAlondal Member Posts: 7 Novice
    You have to stick around and kill zombies for a while to get enough cogs, so it can be tedious to shut it down.
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Member Posts: 1,888 Transcendent
    edited November 2012
    You can get all the cogs in one run. Blacked out for people who care about that sort of thing (not sure if there's a proper spoiler tag): You just have to make sure you pick up the brains, because the big fat zombies hold cogs, and they only show up on the last brain picked up for that floor.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,303 Transcendent
    Xenthos said:
    It may possibly be too easy to release them. Last week Celina said she did so "by accident"..

    I just kill Afmecia. Apparently someone had set the quest up earlier and not the last step. So I didn't technically do the any of the quest. Just bashed the place out for the gold pile (darn you Rag for releasing the secret) and bam, honors line.

     

    As far as gold goes, taking gold from certain areas won't really fix any problems with the gold market right now. Unless we can predict a drop in credit prices after the fact, it won't really serve any purpose.

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  • TullyTully Member Posts: 170 Capable
    edited November 2012
    What if there was another quest that would allow something to protect from the zombies, which wouldn't interfere with the WF quest but instead create a system of protections that could help folk out.

    Since, at least from what I hear, the WF quest is based on the Left 4 Dead games, how about the Serenwilde implement something taken from Plants vs. Zombies, and maybe there's a quest to grow plants on the roads that can interrupt or negate zombies.

    Give Horacle something fun to do!  :-)
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,648 Mythical

    Personally, I think that if they are wandering around one of the "circles" (Seas, Highways, Mountains) they should not be too deadly. By design these are how we access a large number of the areas in this game and so we can expect players as low as level 21-30 to be using them.

     

    Especially given that bards/scholars/pilgrims are fairly decent xp at lower levels, maybe the levels of the highway zombies could be looked into? Maybe based on how far from the facility they have wandered, further away means weaker or just every step they take lowers their level? Maybe the last time they got a kill, might help with clots as only the one who manages to kill ?

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  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,573 Transcendent
    As has been stated elsewhere, zombies are not a danger to newbies. They only aggro above a certain level. Not sure about the level, but apparently it's above 60 somewhere.
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  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,303 Transcendent
    I just wish they wouldn't knock me off my mount when I am auto walking places. I am a busy Queen, GET OUT OF MY WAY.
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,702 Transcendent
    I hear they don't knock you off your mount when they're sealed away.


    8-X
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  • KabinaKabina Member Posts: 54 Novice
    Sprint? Set your num pad up as a compass, but add sprint... then sprint through.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,722 Transcendent
    It's Ackleberry, fly?

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    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    I like Tully's idea! :D
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  • TacitaTacita <3s Xynthin 4eva!!!11 Member Posts: 789 Transcendent
    Kabina said:
    Sprint? Set your num pad up as a compass, but add sprint... then sprint through.
    Doesn't work so well if you want to collect bards/scholars along the way - or if you have someone following you and you're not a Stag user (envoys, support report 983! >.>).

    Though I actually don't care about the zombies as long as they don't attack mid/lowbies.
  • TullyTully Member Posts: 170 Capable
    Maybe it can be a Torobolla quest that anyone can do.

    All the sudden the Woad plants get planted on the road and become the WHOA plants, halting zombie progress...

    Okay, maybe not that.  
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  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    I think the zombies attacking anybody, newbies included is a good thing. We are playing a game where the world is fraught with danger. It's things like this that keep the excitement and adrenaline pumping. This is exactly what is needed in a game such as this.

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  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    Well, if you are going to disagree, might I invite you to provide some feedback and reasoning? It would be appreciated. Thank you.

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  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,573 Transcendent
    Here's why I disagree:

    While I agree that danger is a good thing in many cases, if the zombies started attacking everyone (it currently only attacks high-levelled people; I'm not sure where it starts, but last I heard level 60 were not in danger from the zombies) it would mean that the entire highway from Magnagora to the Peak would be shut down. This would also include the junction between the highway through Serenwilde and the Peak. This is a highway that have bards and pilgrims on it, which many newbies go after (since it's a very good way to get XP early on). In addition, Estelbar is only accessible through this highway; if the zombies started attacking everyone, Estelbar would be unreachable to many (not everyone can fly).

    If this were isolated to a single area (say, the wasteland east of Mag) I wouldn't say anything at all about it. But a highway? No.
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  • LlandrosLlandros Member Posts: 457 Gifted
    Draylor said:
    I think the zombies attacking anybody, newbies included is a good thing. We are playing a game where the world is fraught with danger. It's things like this that keep the excitement and adrenaline pumping. This is exactly what is needed in a game such as this.

    You might not think that if they gathered right outside of your city. If they aggroed on everyone we might as  well just shut the northern gate down because it would be a virtual newbie death trap.

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  • KiradaweaKiradawea Member Posts: 1,750 Transcendent
    In addition to what Ssaliss says.

    Not everyone plays Lusternia to bash or fight. The game has chosen to include many different elements that can be engaging and interesting to various people. Some like to play a game where the only purpose is to watch numbers increase as they beat upon other creatures. Some like to play a game where the mechanics are set up to encourage you beating the other players through the game mechanics. Some like to play a game where they challenge others in a game of skill and creativity. And some just want to stay in an immersive story and explore the vast reaches of the game world. Lusternia has a lot that is designed more for the benefit of the latter two groupings. They should not be forced to play the game of mechanics. Setting up arbitrary "you must be this tall to use one of the most commonly travelled areas in the game" sign is not a good thing.
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  • EventruEventru Member, Gods Posts: 719 Divine
    edited November 2012
    Kiradawea said:
    In addition to what Ssaliss says.

    Not everyone plays Lusternia to bash or fight. The game has chosen to include many different elements that can be engaging and interesting to various people. Some like to play a game where the only purpose is to watch numbers increase as they beat upon other creatures. Some like to play a game where the mechanics are set up to encourage you beating the other players through the game mechanics. Some like to play a game where they challenge others in a game of skill and creativity. And some just want to stay in an immersive story and explore the vast reaches of the game world. Lusternia has a lot that is designed more for the benefit of the latter two groupings. They should not be forced to play the game of mechanics. Setting up arbitrary "you must be this tall to use one of the most commonly travelled areas in the game" sign is not a good thing.
    While people may play Lusternia for other aspects beyond bashing/PvP, they aren't able to 'opt out' of being forced into other situations (PvE, PvP). The game of "mechanics", as you put it, will always be there. There isn't (and never will be) a 'non-com' flag or a 'opt out' for conflict. Lusternia is, indeed, a dangerous world.

    The reality is that being butchered by swarms of aggressive mobs can be exceptionally demoralizing for newbies. As such, generally such mobs won't attack people below level 30 or so, events or otherwise (though sometimes there are exceptions to that). Especially when they're in areas newbies might reasonably end up. For older players/non-newbies, they'll always be dangerous things, because Lusternia is a dangerous place.
  • RagniliffRagniliff Member Posts: 87 Adept
    Draylor said:
    I think the zombies attacking anybody, newbies included is a good thing. We are playing a game where the world is fraught with danger. It's things like this that keep the excitement and adrenaline pumping. This is exactly what is needed in a game such as this.
    Only if people actually roleplay it that way.

    They do not.

    Celest has gone out of its way to make sure this place stays open. I know because I have had to stop Paladins bashing the Waste Facility viscanti and explain to them why. Some listened. Some did not. In fact, no players from any other org have interfered with me more than Celest players. I even went out of my way to explain to the CL, explicitly, how it is done. There's no reason for Celest as a whole not to know yet, unless key players are purposely withholding information.

    OOCly, I completely understand. You guys have divinus attacks. You have little reason to like the viscanti. You get basically nothing for sealing the zombies.

    But not sealing the zombies at all is extremely poor form ICly, especially given Celest's stated missions and objectives. It has become blatantly obvious that Celest doesn't mind loads of tainted, angry undead ravaging the highways outside of one of their own villages.

    Yes, it is a dangerous world. There are also supposed to be people who care in this world. Isn't it a bit silly that Gloms had been the most proactive in stuffing them away up until recently?
  • KialkarkeaKialkarkea Member Posts: 204 Capable
    Eventru said:

    The reality is that being butchered by swarms of aggressive mobs can be exceptionally demoralizing for newbies. As such, generally such mobs won't attack people below level 30 or so, events or otherwise (though sometimes there are exceptions to that). Especially when they're in areas newbies might reasonably end up. For older players/non-newbies, they'll always be dangerous things, because Lusternia is a dangerous place.
    I agreed with everything in your post, right up until here. Lusternia is a dangerous place, but I don't think anyone wants to see newbies getting smashed by the latest and greatest Demi-Mob invasion! Just hooking things up into Innocence sounds like a simple flag to make, and it lets the newbie decide whether or not they want to get in on the apocalypse yet.
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