Wasn't there some discussion in another thread (I'm a horrible, horrible forum lurker before I start a game) about making guilds as an organization not really matter, thus forcing the city/commune to be the organization of actual importance? To further expand on Lerad's idea, I would say keep the same council makeup that the game currently has (GM of each guild) so that each guild's interests are represented within the city. Beyond that, doing away with the whole guild/city thing isn't a bad idea at all. Instead of guild security/projectors/undersecs/secs, you just have the same positions within the city. Perhaps code each city an army...organization for lack of a better way to put it, and the protector/security/champion roles then become reflected within that.
I had thought Seren's population was picking up for a while in July/early August, but it's dropped again. All the Myeras disappeared!
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
It's been okay for the past few weeks, but tonight, for a long time I was one of three Seren logged in, and the only one on Prime. That's really, really odd for a weeknight.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
You really need to get that cough checked out, Shuyin!!
EDIT: As a side note, I think the HS and MDs will eventually form a covenant (if everyone agrees, and I know some probably won't agree). While that helps with helping novices, it's not going to fix anything else about their situation - or any of the other guild's (Shofangi/Spiritsingers) situations if they were to form a covenant, too.
I'm slowly reading through this, but this does look like it's something that's going to need to happen. But there is the issue that the things that we need are more people to just be able to do things. I moved rather suddenly and haven't had the greatest internet, but I try to be around when I can until that's resolved.
This discussion is something that has been happening for years, like... I think the first time it started popping up was 2007-2008.
It's been potentially five years of this coming up every 6-12 months with the situation just slowly getting worse.
This is impacted by things that will hopefully be resolved, such as the unappealing play styles offered by certain skills.
However, one of the impacts of low population is fewer people able to perform the things like advancements, etc.
I mean... the game is almost entirely reliant on the players helping the newbies and providing a more day to day environment to play in. So, yeah... guilds like the Shofangi which have always tended to be small kinda show what happens to guilds that don't have sufficient population for a long time.
I'm just going to say I disagree with pretty much any idea that says diluting guild culture or autonomy is the answer here. Not to sound like a broken record of the obvious here, but the issue was obviously caused by imprudently releasing more organizations than the game's population could handle. Lusternia's in/out hasn't really changed much in years, while we've kept adding more and more guilds. I never really saw our guild system as anything that was inherently flawed or unsustainable. I think the problem is, Lusternia really hasn't been growing as much as it should have, and it's a good idea to try to explore why.
Figuring out the ebbs and flows of a MUD population is good for debating, but not for figuring out the problem. There are many things IRE and even the player base can't control.
The key thing is, if you need to make a correction based on the population, there's really only one of three things you can do.
1) Delete an archetype. This would change dynamics and also throws away a ton of work.
2) Delete one or more cities or communes. This would also throw away a ton of work and could end up having more people leave then be satisfied.
3) Consolidate guilds into a combined hierarchy while keeping the archetypes. This would be the least amount of work and throw away nothing.
While some may be fans of option 1 or option 2, they have too many potential side effects. I can see the downside to #3 as there's been a lot of independent player culture in those areas--however, at the end of the day, those guilds serve their community and not themselves.
It comes down to: do you want to help fix this glaring problem in the game and help produce more activity? Or do you want to selfishly cling to private guild rp at the expense of a community that is slowly dissapating?
If it needs to be done, it needs to be done. Moondancers are doing well - in recent memory we've had 10 people online - but even we have long periods of only 1 or 2.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
The playerbase declining and the playerbase not growing are two very different things. Since I started playing, there's been healthy fluctuations. The same staple characters are around, a few old names I used to know stopped playing, but there's a healthy rotation of newbies coming in and out. Some of them have stayed. In fact, some of them have stayed and started to make a name for themselves.
As to "selfishly clinging to private guild rp," let's take a step back and look down the long line of RP that's been inherited from the work of countless others since Lusternia's gates were thrown open. This is not about what I, as a player, have done or found. This is not about the fun that I, as a player, have with all this secret RP. This is about the immensely defined culture of my guild that has been shaped by the hands of everyone before me, into which I have been invited to participate. There are years of players' time that was devoted to shape many guilds that would be completely thrown away and forgotten so that the smaller guild could have a chance at sharing a bit of Org-centric culture? I don't find my wanting to preserve everything that has done before me selfish in the least. I'll also point out that a guild with no distinction, direction, or culture is not going to get what they want by consolidating into one big org. Instead, they're just going to be given a generic, everyone-is-now-the-same culture that is going to be just as stagnant as it was before. At least now, the [warning: hypothetical numbers here:] three Shofangi who all log in at different times have a chance to shape their guild as something completely unique, instead of being told by everyone else what they're meant to be or for what they're meant to stand.
To go a little further, SDs aren't the only guild that operates under the pretense of their parent org not knowing everything about them. In fact, there are other guilds which revolve around that ideal. Consolidating literally strips away their entire RP existence and leaves them fighting for air.
You can't make people be active. It doesn't matter what you do, who you are, or how much money you throw at them. The people who shape guild culture do so actively because that's where they derive their fun from Lusternia. No, not every guild will have that one or those two people who fall in love with the guild and spend all their time trying to promote guild-centric RP because some of the guilds are very, very niche and only cater to individuals with particular interests. Then, you also have the people who skew the counts because they're only in a particular guild for the skills and derive little enjoyment from deep RP.
I suppose what I'm saying is Lusternia has a bleep-ton of opportunities for just about any sort of player you can imagine would play this game. Consolidating guilds into the parent org (and destroying the inherent guild culture therein) will be stripping a multitude of players of their area of interest, resulting in a decline in activity and a further loss of the current playerbase without making any verifiable progress towards expanding the (now declined) playerbase afterward.
This is a game that runs on diversity. Not only diversity of organizations, but the diversity of the playerbase. Stripping this diversity at the mechanical level is going to have harmful consequences, not beneficial ones.
I don't think we necessarily have to take such RP away. If that impression was given by me, I don't mean it that way.
I just think it's possible to change guilds as a whole without necessarily sacrificing the RP, because RP is more malleable than player retention/consolidation/etc.
There's a jump from "guild consolidation" to "destroying RP" that I fail to grasp. Yes, these guilds have a lot of lore and history behind them. Why can't they have a lore and history that evolves? I feel like suggestions are being made that what's great is that things have changed, but at the same time it would be terrible if things were to change. It's all very confusing.
The Templars came from the Illuminati, if I remember correctly. So, what's stopping them from rejoining, hypoethically? Or, re: Shadowdancers. There's that secrecy, but what if something happens to alter that, in some way? What if, instead of a strict "Night coven is Night witches" the secrecy becomes an RP faction composed of, say, Night witches, Night Ebonguard (and maybe some Harbingers?)
There's a jump from "guild consolidation" to "destroying RP" that I fail to grasp. Yes, these guilds have a lot of lore and history behind them. Why can't they have a lore and history that evolves? I feel like suggestions are being made that what's great is that things have changed, but at the same time it would be terrible if things were to change. It's all very confusing.
The Templars came from the Illuminati, if I remember correctly. So, what's stopping them from rejoining, hypoethically? Or, re: Shadowdancers. There's that secrecy, but what if something happens to alter that, in some way? What if, instead of a strict "Night coven is Night witches" the secrecy becomes an RP faction composed of, say, Night witches, Night Ebonguard (and maybe some Harbingers?)
Because reasons. This is not an RP conversation that can happen on the forums. There are, however, reasons why this wouldn't work. I know it's asking for a leap of faith, but that's what we're dealing with here. I can't even begin to mark an argument to attempt to persuade you that this wouldn't work because that would mean saying things people aren't supposed to know.
From my own experience, I think we often play for the interaction, rather than grinding for whatever goal, and logging in to see no one else on GWHO/CWHO can make you want to log out as soon as you've logged in. So I think community visibility is hugely important in encouraging people
to continue playing - both in a guild/city, and playing the game as a
whole. Now I think the game as a whole has a great ooc community, but I'd
agree the community is spread too thinly in-game for every org to develop their
own community to a critical mass where their activity, identity and culture are not almost fully reliant on a few individuals being active.
Without being able to instantly inject new members into struggling communities, the -perception- of being part of a community could be improved by improving what players see.
- Have all Covenant members show on GWHO. - Have off-plane guild/city members show on GWHO/CWHO with an 'Off-plane' flag. - Tweak WHO list to give total # of people online, including gemcloaked people. - Add CLWHO's that look like GWHO/CWHO, for improved perception of player-created communities.
With a better perception of the number of people in the same community, I think it is always going to come down to interaction that keeps someone playing (which can be a lot trickier), but the initial impression that it is worthwhile to spend time in that community, and that there are people to interact with needs to be there.
Every single suggestion Ushaara mentioned is gold. The fact that gemcloaked people aren't added to any WHO count gives a false perception to new people as to the population's size.
GWHO/CWHO and OWHO all should note people who are online but off plane, the same way CULTWHO tells you simply who is or is not online regardless of plane. Covenant members should be added with a *C* / (C) tag.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
The issue with the Ebonguard is they aren't just servants of Mother Night, their most prolific member is a Crow follower.
I realize it wasn't clear in my post, I was trying to convey there being a difference between Night Ebonguard and Crow Ebonguard, that the individual EG would go with whichever totem they followed.
The issue with the Ebonguard is they aren't just servants of Mother Night, their most prolific member is a Crow follower.
I realize it wasn't clear in my post, I was trying to convey there being a difference between Night Ebonguard and Crow Ebonguard, that the individual EG would go with whichever totem they followed.
So you'd split an Archtype in two between two different guilds?
I'll be blunt, no thankyou.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
No, but I'm obviously far too tired to get out what I'm thinking, which could in fact be a terrible idea given how tired I am. Thus, I'm going to drop out of this conversation.
Usually when this subject pops up on the forums, the volunteers start brainstorming ideas (without Estarra, so please don't take this to mean we have anything in the works), and it really isn't a simple solution. We do like to hear your suggestions though, and we are listening.
An idea based around what Lerad posted has the most potential, I think. A system in which you still declare and are part of a specific group (I'm trying to avoid calling them anything that will be confused with earlier ideas), that still has their guildhall and so on, but doesn't have a complete hierarchy of administrators and champions.
Personally, I would prefer if skillsets became optionally a little more fluid, so that not ALL identified Hartstone people need to be Hartstone druids (for example)- but you won't have Hartstone druids running around another nation, or the Shofangi 'group' (for instance). Some restrictions would still be appropriate, but centering the guilds around skillsets always seemed funky to me, when the RP usually focuses around philosophy and belief. It makes you have to make a radical change in your character (or go against your guild's teachings in often major ways, or suffer on in silence) if a change goes through mechanically that makes your skillset undesirable in some way, if you care at all about that.
@kio I want to apologize for the harsh way I came off. I merely wished to express my view on the matter and unfortunately I believed that to be an excuse to input my judgement on your opinions.
I understand the importance of preserving lore and rp... in fact I have been a very loud supporter of such things regarding Magnagora and its Guilds after seeing the hard work of various older generations flushed down the toilet in recent times. I know it was important to me, so I am sorry for insulting your passion for the same. I simply feel that this solution has merit.
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I don't think the way guilds are currently mechanically set up lends itself easily to merger or consolidation. People like GMs, GAs, and even GCs and Secs are not just people who exist to give guildfavours and advance ranks. Each guild has structured them to do specific things with specific lore. High Priestess of the Moon =/= Heirophant =/= Keyll Arrane. Their internal structures are completely different. You'd basically have to eliminate all of that to appoint one generic GM, one generic GA, and one generic GC (who will really be the champion of half the guild, not having any guild-skills of the other).
Now, if you wanted to mechanically and completely restructure the way guilds are built, then yes, a merger or consolidation that didn't end up being a dorky, generic nothing would be possible.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Personally, I would prefer if skillsets became optionally a little more fluid, so that not ALL identified Hartstone people need to be Hartstone druids (for example)- but you won't have Hartstone druids running around another nation, or the Shofangi 'group' (for instance). Some restrictions would still be appropriate, but centering the guilds around skillsets always seemed funky to me, when the RP usually focuses around philosophy and belief. It makes you have to make a radical change in your character (or go against your guild's teachings in often major ways, or suffer on in silence) if a change goes through mechanically that makes your skillset undesirable in some way, if you care at all about that.
Kinda sounds like what it was like in the past, lorewise, when in the Serenwilde there was no warrior guild, and warriors simply belonged to the Hartstone or Moondancers--they weren't druids or wiccans, but had no where else to go. I feel that only really works with the knighthood and kata skills, though.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Personally, I am much in favour of seeing little changes first, like @Ushaara's excellent suggestion about making everyone more visible without breaking what cloaking gems are supposed to do.
Also, do the admins have access to specific numbers / graphs of activity and such? Not saying make them public to us, but if not, I think this should probably be a thing in order to gauge if player feelings match reality. If everyone feels activity has gone down, it could be useful if the admins could at the very least confirm or deny that.
For what it is worth, I have found that in online games and communities there is always a slump at this time of year. While people are home either because they are not in school or because they have taken their summer leave from work, everyone also has a lot more to do and the weather lends itself to that well. Noticing this every year myself. I reckon that activity will pick up come autumn again and should soar until around the winter holidays, when people traditionally have family things to do.
You have received a new honour! Congratulations! On this day, you have shown your willingness to ensure a bug-free Lusternia for everyone to enjoy. The face of Iosai the Anomaly unfolds before you, and within you grows the knowledge that you have earned the elusive and rare honour of membership in Her Order. Curio Exchange - A website to help with the trading of curio pieces in Lusternia.
By the way, people who are hidden by Gem of Cloaking do show on the QW count (as being on "another Plane").
(*) Currently, there are 20 Lusternians on this Plane and 33 on other Planes. You say, "Tulahuar." The gem of cloaking ceases to protect you. (*) Currently, there are 21 Lusternians on this Plane and 32 on other Planes.
Turning it back on sets the count back to where it started.
Wouldn't any sweeping changes like consolidating guilds detract from that proposed year-long project anyway? The one that they can't focus on anything else at the same time?
Even were that not the case, I fear some guilds simply never will be populous, and any such consolidation would only be another band-aid. MUDs are a rather small niche in the gaming community, Lusternia another niche within that. Diverse as we are, people who are drawn to certain guilds will remain rare, some more so than others. People would still notice they're of an uncommon archetype, even if that archetype belongs to a larger, "super" guild. Nor would such a re-organization open up any new RP or other interactions that do not already exist, in any way.
We can only work with what we have, not with what we don't. You're in your guild, these hypothetical newbies (and alts) are not. Something drew you to your guild, so work with that. Fret about what you don't have, even if it's just more people in your group, and people will pick up on that vibe and that alone can push people away.
A simpler solution to all this can be just to have fun. Have fun with your guild, and if others deign to join you in your fun, go out of your way to have fun with them. They may stick around to have more with you. Maybe they won't. Either way, you're still having fun. Not worrying about maybes.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
It's not so much worrying about maybes, but that having a stretched population distinctly cuts down on fun. No amount of dressing the problem up as being 'an elite group' or 'fun by itself' will get past the fact that it's a roleplaying game and roleplaying by yourself gets tired really fast for most people.
Opening up a larger 'superguild' wouldn't solve the problem of being alone with your skills, but that's not really the problem. The issue is that currently being alone with your skills also isolates you socially, as the biggest social grouping in the game (regardless of all cries otherwise) is the guild, and will continue to be due to the way all of the mechanics are set up. Want to be a national leader? Have to do that through the guild. Want to contribute in battle? Guild. Want utility skills? Guild. Want to help novices? Better be a guild secretary or professor. Want access to bookshelves to write org books? Guild is probably your best shot. Guild switching also ties into real life cash, because you lose guild skills!
All of the tie in with org concepts are ultimately guild based too. All Celestians presumably follow the teachings of the Supernals... but not as closely as the Celestines guild. Hart and Moon have their follower guilds, and I challenge anyone not in the Hartstone to tell me what Hart and his Aspects stand for. Glomdoring does a good job (last I checked) in teaching the entire commune the tenents of Night and Crow, but in the end, you have to be in one of the three guilds to get the full whammy.
Reducing the social impact of your skills/guild would open existing RP to more people, and allow more interesting combinations of skills and outlook. The way guilds are set up draws lines in the sand that people are unable to cross. Some allowances to make this less of an issue would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT: I think it would work out a lot better if you could be part of the 'Crow loving super-guild', and only get the full whammy if you were a Crow-skill user... but not have that be a requirement for joining or participating. That way, if a faction withers and dies, it can just die instead of holding on forever in misery. No skills would be lost or deleted, and a new faction can spring up (or the old can be revived) once the playerbase supports it. You could even have mechanics put in place for all of that to be player-initiated or at least influenced.
Comments
I'm slowly reading through this, but this does look like it's something that's going to need to happen. But there is the issue that the things that we need are more people to just be able to do things. I moved rather suddenly and haven't had the greatest internet, but I try to be around when I can until that's resolved.
More generally.
This discussion is something that has been happening for years, like... I think the first time it started popping up was 2007-2008.
It's been potentially five years of this coming up every 6-12 months with the situation just slowly getting worse.
This is impacted by things that will hopefully be resolved, such as the unappealing play styles offered by certain skills.
However, one of the impacts of low population is fewer people able to perform the things like advancements, etc.
I mean... the game is almost entirely reliant on the players helping the newbies and providing a more day to day environment to play in. So, yeah... guilds like the Shofangi which have always tended to be small kinda show what happens to guilds that don't have sufficient population for a long time.
The Templars came from the Illuminati, if I remember correctly. So, what's stopping them from rejoining, hypoethically? Or, re: Shadowdancers. There's that secrecy, but what if something happens to alter that, in some way? What if, instead of a strict "Night coven is Night witches" the secrecy becomes an RP faction composed of, say, Night witches, Night Ebonguard (and maybe some Harbingers?)
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Without being able to instantly inject new members into struggling communities, the -perception- of being part of a community could be improved by improving what players see.
- Have all Covenant members show on GWHO.
- Have off-plane guild/city members show on GWHO/CWHO with an 'Off-plane' flag.
- Tweak WHO list to give total # of people online, including gemcloaked people.
- Add CLWHO's that look like GWHO/CWHO, for improved perception of player-created communities.
With a better perception of the number of people in the same community, I think it is always going to come down to interaction that keeps someone playing (which can be a lot trickier), but the initial impression that it is worthwhile to spend time in that community, and that there are people to interact with needs to be there.
GWHO/CWHO and OWHO all should note people who are online but off plane, the same way CULTWHO tells you simply who is or is not online regardless of plane. Covenant members should be added with a *C* / (C) tag.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
So you'd split an Archtype in two between two different guilds?
I'll be blunt, no thankyou.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Personally, I would prefer if skillsets became optionally a little more fluid, so that not ALL identified Hartstone people need to be Hartstone druids (for example)- but you won't have Hartstone druids running around another nation, or the Shofangi 'group' (for instance). Some restrictions would still be appropriate, but centering the guilds around skillsets always seemed funky to me, when the RP usually focuses around philosophy and belief. It makes you have to make a radical change in your character (or go against your guild's teachings in often major ways, or suffer on in silence) if a change goes through mechanically that makes your skillset undesirable in some way, if you care at all about that.
I understand the importance of preserving lore and rp... in fact I have been a very loud supporter of such things regarding Magnagora and its Guilds after seeing the hard work of various older generations flushed down the toilet in recent times. I know it was important to me, so I am sorry for insulting your passion for the same. I simply feel that this solution has merit.
Now, if you wanted to mechanically and completely restructure the way guilds are built, then yes, a merger or consolidation that didn't end up being a dorky, generic nothing would be possible.
Also, do the admins have access to specific numbers / graphs of activity and such? Not saying make them public to us, but if not, I think this should probably be a thing in order to gauge if player feelings match reality. If everyone feels activity has gone down, it could be useful if the admins could at the very least confirm or deny that.
For what it is worth, I have found that in online games and communities there is always a slump at this time of year. While people are home either because they are not in school or because they have taken their summer leave from work, everyone also has a lot more to do and the weather lends itself to that well. Noticing this every year myself. I reckon that activity will pick up come autumn again and should soar until around the winter holidays, when people traditionally have family things to do.
You have received a new honour! Congratulations! On this day, you have shown your willingness to ensure a bug-free Lusternia for everyone to enjoy. The face of Iosai the Anomaly unfolds before you, and within you grows the knowledge that you have earned the elusive and rare honour of membership in Her Order.
Curio Exchange - A website to help with the trading of curio pieces in Lusternia.
(*) Currently, there are 20 Lusternians on this Plane and 33 on other Planes.
You say, "Tulahuar."
The gem of cloaking ceases to protect you.
(*) Currently, there are 21 Lusternians on this Plane and 32 on other Planes.
Turning it back on sets the count back to where it started.
Opening up a larger 'superguild' wouldn't solve the problem of being alone with your skills, but that's not really the problem. The issue is that currently being alone with your skills also isolates you socially, as the biggest social grouping in the game (regardless of all cries otherwise) is the guild, and will continue to be due to the way all of the mechanics are set up. Want to be a national leader? Have to do that through the guild. Want to contribute in battle? Guild. Want utility skills? Guild. Want to help novices? Better be a guild secretary or professor. Want access to bookshelves to write org books? Guild is probably your best shot. Guild switching also ties into real life cash, because you lose guild skills!
All of the tie in with org concepts are ultimately guild based too. All Celestians presumably follow the teachings of the Supernals... but not as closely as the Celestines guild. Hart and Moon have their follower guilds, and I challenge anyone not in the Hartstone to tell me what Hart and his Aspects stand for. Glomdoring does a good job (last I checked) in teaching the entire commune the tenents of Night and Crow, but in the end, you have to be in one of the three guilds to get the full whammy.
Reducing the social impact of your skills/guild would open existing RP to more people, and allow more interesting combinations of skills and outlook. The way guilds are set up draws lines in the sand that people are unable to cross. Some allowances to make this less of an issue would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT: I think it would work out a lot better if you could be part of the 'Crow loving super-guild', and only get the full whammy if you were a Crow-skill user... but not have that be a requirement for joining or participating. That way, if a faction withers and dies, it can just die instead of holding on forever in misery. No skills would be lost or deleted, and a new faction can spring up (or the old can be revived) once the playerbase supports it. You could even have mechanics put in place for all of that to be player-initiated or at least influenced.