Organisational RP. Idealist perceptions vs reality.

KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.Member Posts: 3,769 Transcendent
edited September 2013 in Common Grounds
First off I want to stress that this is meant to be a civil discussion, and that it isn't to de-evolve into arguments on who's idea is better or how the admin/other players have forever ruined X/Y/Z. Thanks.


I'm curious as to how people view their organisation (or even other organisations) with their opinion of the concept of said organisation should be, and the reality they see portrayed in game.


For example, I always believed Glomdoring to be ruthlessly violent and manipulative, to a degree this is true, but I expected it to be pushed even further. The fact in it's early existence the Glomdoring was under attack with the intent to destroy it, I believed the merciless nature would now turn around with a view to crush threats before they ever gain the strength to be a threat. There's (rather OOCly motivated) a sense of honour and mercy of "there's no challenge/honour in attacking them, it'd be one sided." Which OOCly is great and is aimed to let more people enjoy the game, but ICly it's not Glomdoring, not "without mercy." Honour and challenge isn't what a servant of the Wyrd should be striving for, the best defence should be a strong, constant and unrelenting offence to ensure the prosperity of the Wyrd.

I also feel Crow has become a comedy character, the fall guy. The master trickster and manipulator becomes the "OH MY GOD, THEY KILLED KENNY!" line in Events. Doing the Dark Savant arc shows so much potential for Crow, and I feel it's not developed as much in Glomdoring's culture as it should be.


I'm very much interested in hearing other people's opinions, and seeing if any trends appear in people's perception, be they idealist or reality.

The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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Comments

  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,808 Transcendent
    edited September 2013
    @Morkarion The RP of the Glomdoring years ago was much more ruthless, merciless, manipulative and violent. It was then deemed a "toxic atmosphere" and some things happened. I wasn't actually there for them and only heard about them through the forums, but there was a change.

    Regarding Serenwilde RP, it's pretty weak right now. Serenwilde as presented in the histories and in the early news posts is not the Serenwilde of today. But, there's definitely a core group of players actively working to bring back some of the older, deeper aspects of Serenwilde--the aspects of Winter, being somber, death, but the hope for new life; being a place where civilization is actively shunned and viewed with suspicion; reconnecting with the Celtic/tribal feel and the importance of ancestor spirits; understanding itself to be the last place where the life and healing force of the world exists.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,320 Transcendent
    I generally agree with @Portius, except I don't see rivalry between families and organizations within Hallifax. With Harmony being one of the central tenants, rivalries should be sublimated into support. For instance, Isune's Woodstock isn't meant to 'show up' Zvoltz's order, but to inspire them to host South by Southwest. Could just be my rose tinted glasses or non-confrontational nature.

    I'm disappointed that the caste system has never been well codified. I've always hoped it would become central to the identity of most Hallifaxians, such that any GR1 or 2 could tell you their place in Hallifaxian society. I feel like having more concrete caste assignments -- even if they're not attached to any mechanical benefits like extra credits or power -- would reinforce the Collectivist mentality we're going for. I remember the backflips and contortions we went through trying to work out a more concrete system back when I had access to the BoD, but the efforts seemed to fizzle out in the difficulty of it all.

    That said, I've always been in love with the stuffiness and formality of Hallifax. All the rational, emotionally bankrupt scientist types, the arrogant, flighty artists, the dour bureaucrats, all whitewashed with a sense of decorum and propriety. I know it's not something to build an ingame society around, but it creates a very distinct atmosphere that's conducive to the good things Portius mentioned.
  • RevanRevan Member Posts: 90 Capable
    If you want a good comparison as to what Serenwilde should be... look no further than the Dalish Elves of Dragon Age
  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 996 Fabled
    Daraius said:
    I generally agree with @Portius, except I don't see rivalry between families and organizations within Hallifax. With Harmony being one of the central tenants, rivalries should be sublimated into support. For instance, Isune's Woodstock isn't meant to 'show up' Zvoltz's order, but to inspire them to host South by Southwest. Could just be my rose tinted glasses or non-confrontational nature.

    I'm disappointed that the caste system has never been well codified. I've always hoped it would become central to the identity of most Hallifaxians, such that any GR1 or 2 could tell you their place in Hallifaxian society. I feel like having more concrete caste assignments -- even if they're not attached to any mechanical benefits like extra credits or power -- would reinforce the Collectivist mentality we're going for. I remember the backflips and contortions we went through trying to work out a more concrete system back when I had access to the BoD, but the efforts seemed to fizzle out in the difficulty of it all.



    The Caste system was tied into city rank when hallifax first came out. Just look at all the complaints that made. I think that worked out great. Sure the fighters wouldn't be that high of a rank, and influencers probably wouldn't get all three city skills, but when you place such importance on art and scholarly  and tie that into cityrank you are bound to annoy people who don't actively enjoy that.



    As for RP in Glomdoring, For RP in general I feel that it is a hit or miss really depending where you go. I loved the minor things that Viravain did back when I saw her active. With how small some of the guilds are these days (sure, with school starting up, I know numbers will be lower), I think it is a bit of 'where do I exactly go for this RP'. I would love to see a bit more of the elitist-ness, no mercy, in Glomdoring in some aspects. or maybe it is just because I never learned where to look for rp and there is tons of stuff happening all the time.

  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    Elitism and xenophobia are things all orgs should, sensibly, have in spades. They do not embody these qualities to the fullest because it would be a hindrance to the game, particularly with how spread out the population is.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,808 Transcendent
    Vivet said:
    Elitism and xenophobia are things all orgs should, sensibly, have in spades. They do not embody these qualities to the fullest because it would be a hindrance to the game, particularly with how spread out the population is.
    I will never understand how readily Dracnari are accepted in Hallifax and Trill in Gaudiguch. Haven't checked much on New Celest, but they still have their Viscanti ban, don't they? And Magnagora still mistreats Elfen, right? Serenwilde still doesn't accept any Illithoid. Does Glomdoring ban anyone?
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,722 Transcendent
    The caste system in Hallifax failed primarily because defenders/combatants got tired of defending their home and being thought less of for it instead of being appreciated.

    Having played the first warrior in Hallifax as well as the first Guardian (rogue Celestine), I can understand why people got frustrated. When I would defend continuum/air/villages, I was generally told that "it was my duty" and that promotions weren't in order, I owed it to the people who stood around and wrote poetry or hypothesized about the PH balance in Balach Swamp.


    I can remember being denied founder status in the Institute because my character was a combatant/defender instead of a "scientist"; even though I singlehandedly paid for not only the astrolabe in the guildhall but also the guildhall tutor's stockroom, I wasn't recognised for it at all beyond a "Thank you, citizen."

    I for one am glad the caste system didn't keep. It wasn't sustainable, it was poisonous to the player environment, and it led to some very dissatisfied shaddus-alts.

    /endrant

    Having said that, I believe a place should be able to rework their rp. Serenwilde would do well to move from a passive, sunny place to an introverted, cold, harsh, xenophobic forest whose primary goal is to tear down the cities and roads, starting with Alabaster.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    I just want to say I'm *really* glad that Magnagora doesn't actually do a lot of the things it's 'supposed' to do.[most of the time. as long as you don't REALLY deserve it.] I think after we got the whole...toxic...individuals, thing, cleared up, Magnagora's really pulled together culture-wise to be a neato place to roleplay and gather power and stuff like that. There's a lot of Halli-esque teamwork rhetoric involved, actually.
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  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,808 Transcendent
    Shaddus said:
     Serenwilde would do well to move from a passive, sunny place to an introverted, cold, harsh, xenophobic forest whose primary goal is to tear down the cities and roads, starting with Alabaster.
    That's what it feels like it was supposed to be, and that's where we are trying to move it.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 395 Virtuoso

    Everiine said:
    I will never understand how readily Dracnari are accepted in Hallifax and Trill in Gaudiguch. Haven't checked much on New Celest, but they still have their Viscanti ban, don't they? And Magnagora still mistreats Elfen, right? Serenwilde still doesn't accept any Illithoid. Does Glomdoring ban anyone?

    Mag has formal laws restricting elfen, merian, and kepheran access to the Necropolis, yes. I think the core difference is that with celest at least viscanti are restricted based on physical objections, specifically the presence of taint. Mag's to my knowledge can be traced to fainite policies put in place before Glomdoring came back. With halli/gaudi, on the other hand, it's more a clash of ideals, so as long as they think the right way there's no objection.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,320 Transcendent
    edited September 2013
    Shaddus said:
     rant


    When I talk about caste system, I'm not talking about the original instantiation of it, which I suspect came direct from Elostian(Cririk)/Estarra and was obviously flawed. Like I said, it doesn't need to be associated with mechanical bonuses. City rank and caste are no longer associated. But I believe 100% that warriors should be treated differently than artists in Hallifax, at least on the social level! Of course you can't be a founder of the Institute if you're not a scientist. You should have gotten at least a CF or two for what you did, sure, but that's how things were then and I don't think the players were particularly at fault. 

    We are at fault for not coming up with a better system, but at least everyone can reach CR6 one way or another now.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,722 Transcendent
    Daraius said:


    Shaddus said:

     rant



    But I believe 100% that warriors should be treated differently than artists in Hallifax, at least on the social level! Of course you can't be a founder of the Institute if you're not a scientist.

    Though I generally agree with you on this, 90% of the people who were "Scientists" didnt do much in the Aeromancers, and a good third of them had been out of the Portal for about a week, as opposed to an experienced guardian who had been in the city almost since it had been refounded.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,808 Transcendent
    Sounds like a typical bureaucracy at work to me!
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,722 Transcendent
    edited September 2013
    Tbh, I've always liked Glom's rp. The concept of people not caring about honour, only caring about advancing the Wyrd and demoralizing their foes is an interesting one to me.

    My most known Glom, Vitas, got most of his circles (and all of his commune ranks) from battle, and fully half from decapping Afk Serens in their own forest. You have no idea how many times he'd kill someone, spore out, offer their corpse, and almost instantly receive an angry tell demanding a spar or duel.

    But he didn't care, he wasn't interested in honour or glory or praise. He wasn't even interested in advancing in the commune. All he wanted to do was kill people and serve the commune, and he did it.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • TridemonTridemon Member Posts: 612 Fabled
    Yeah, Celest simply doesn't allow Viscanti or Illithoids into the city- it's codified into the Covenant. By law, if you're a Viscanti, undead, or Illithoid, you have one minute to leave the city/village before you are enemied and hunted down. This doesn't apply to novices, though. I think that the rationale is that the Soulless are the single greatest threat to the Basin of Life as a whole, and anything relating to them (The Taint and by extension undeath, and the shards of the Soulless) is simply not to be tolerated where we have control.
    I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,717 Mythical
    Serenwilde is lost, it's confused and it's constantly beaten down both in the histories and in the events that have happened since. 

    Some cling to the hope of destroying the cities and all they have brought but with more recent events it seems likely that nature will never recover. 
    And we would need to completely eradicate Gaudiguch in one move because if we fail, they will burn the forest to the ground and nothing will grow there ever again. 

    Sadly, Serenwilde seems to be encouraged into non-participation. We've been shown consistently through events and lore releases that if we try to do things it will turn bad and the forest will be harmed.



    Personally, I'm wondering if the forest could actually explore the more ethereal (not the plane) aspects. Trying to become more like Kiakoda perhaps, let the joyful and playful aspects tie into a portrayal of the forest as otherworldly within the context of Lusternia. Let nature become resilient, show it to be capable of recovering and growing back stronger than ever. There is a lot about balance and harmony in Serenwilde, I wonder if the forests could focus on litterally walking the line between physical and spirit to the point that an explanation for the number of spirits we have floating around could be that... "well they're were mostly spirit before their body left anyway"


    Also, if we're going to start tearing things down, I wouldn't start with the road... I'd start with the buildings inside our own commune.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,717 Mythical
    As a side note, I personally actually quite loved the caste system in theory. The execution didn't work, but the whole... everyone in their place, all working together for the betterment of the collective... it can be a good thing to play. 

    This is coming from someone who was more of a bureaucrat. What made me sad was that there wasn't really a way to fully play each of the roles and when I left it began to feel that it was being entirely abandoned for the sole goal of pushing everyone towards the artist and scholar castes.
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  • MaellioMaellio Member Posts: 488 Fabled
    edited September 2013
    Regarding Race, there's nothing explicitly historic for Hallifax to justify banning Dracnari beyond a sort of correlation equals causation ( most Gaudi are Dracs, ergo Dracs are like Gaudi ) that exists almost exactly as the sort of thing we'd disprove. If you assimilate is more important, race just becomes a curiosity. When Mael joined Halli it was far more important I bet that he had strong ties to Glom than being Dracnari (frankly the Institute was ecstatic to have a Drac to examine).

    Regarding Caste, while the core flavour is really cool (and I'd love to bring back) there's no denying the implementation was flawed. It was far too focused on the stratification and not the core idea of 'everyone in their place, and a place for everyone'. And having been part of a few attempts to meet halfway it is quite a lot of effort. Though with luck we might manage something, as I'm at least starting the grand project of going over -everything-.

    Edit: as for exactly on topic, I'm not sure I can think of a better desc than Portius'

    .oO---~---Oo.

    "Perfect. Please move quickly to the next post, as the effects of prolonged exposure to the signature are not part of this test."

    NARF!

  • SvoraiSvorai Member Posts: 321 Fabled
    ICly, I don't take Crow as the weak and lacklustre Spirit most seem to see him as. Crow is all about misdirection, being underestimated, and always looking far forward to that checkmate situation while fooling people in the present.

    On an OOC basis, I would *love* Crow to wipe the floor clean and live up to his 'Scourge of the Heart of Darkness' title... to be a Spirit that really does make people fearful. But while we don't have that, I've managed to reconcile his actions to be 'exactly what he planned all along'.

    For example, during the Xynthin event, Night was like "Xynthin is the answer" in her prophesy (and turns out, she was wrong, or... wrong because something went wrong -- which is still wrong), and Crow was uber quiet about his intentions. Eventually Crow followed Xynthin around and seemed to be deferring to Him. Svorai was beside herself because Crow was following Xynthin, and giving every indication that things were okay. So in the aftermath, she came to realise the whole affair was a test of her own character, and a test for the greater Glomdoirng. A good disciple of Crow has faith that the future is sure, that nothing can prevent what must be. And eventually his actions meant that everything was, in fact, okay. She should have played along, not gotten upset over his perceived inaction. He had to follow Xynthin, because if he didn't, who knows what Xynthin would have done -- maybe He wouldn't have trapped Himself in the Wheel after all?

    There are times when I wish Glomdoring could be a whole lot meaner than it is. The people who play there are just too gosh darn nice! Plus we get told we're griefing... lame. :(
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,320 Transcendent
    I think that's everywhere. We're all too gosh darn nice, but it at least makes for a nicer game. If everyone played like the lore suggests we should, I don't think there'd be RP, just constant conflict.
  • TalanTalan Member Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    The caste system in Hallifax supposes a bottomless population of highly competent people who are content to toil away doing such petty things as attempting to win, in exchange for being actively looked down upon by people who, in terms of game activities, do little to nothing.

    Lusternia is not a game where you can totally ignore things like combat and conflict and hope to succeed. Success brings better quality of life, and that, along with an inclusive community, brings population. Lusternia is also not a book-and-play-writing game. That is one component, but we are continually told that Lusternia is a conflict game, full of conflict quests and recurring conflict bouts that require participation.

    The caste system in Hallifax is far from dead, it's just been streamlined into [one diminishing clique] and [everybody else]. I've talked to a lot of people in Hallifax about this, and even those who do spend the majority of their time contriving elaborate scientific/engineering projects, writing books, or making plans for artistic/theatre oriented activities feel as though they are outsiders unrecognized for their efforts. But they like the relative calm and quiet, so they are content to just get on with things, demurely disgruntled.

    Collectivism and the Caste System are inherently at odds. If every person is a valuable component to the whole, then logic dictates that if an Elite Caste emerges, it should consist of those who contribute the most. They would be the most well-rounded, and show the greatest exertion for the betterment of the org. They improve themselves, and help to improve others because it improves the whole.

    On Hallifax it is down on paper that this is not the case. They say, "That's nice and all, but we are mainly concerned with arts and sciences."

    The problem is that they have never integrated "the stuff that playing Lusternia primarily consists of" with art or science - and it would be so easy to do. The things required of players during domoths, flares, revolts, &c are prescribed and procedural. There are tested methods of success, which can be honed and continually refined. That is science. Combat itself, as well as various combat situations (tactics), require finesse, elegance, ingenuity, and creativity. That is art. "The Art of War" is not just a catchy title. We're all GoT fans here, right? Just because he only paints in red doesn't make him less an artist.

    I'm baffled as to why the players of Hallifax have never embraced this viewpoint. It could be so good.

    I'm not saying that Hallifax should be only this, but it needs to do a better job of marrying its premise to the game world, rather than trying to create something that only exists apart from "the rabble." We 'live' in the rabble, even in Hallifax.

    As for the snootiness and the extremely rigid formality...

    My point of view has always been that any org's negative components should be directed outward, rather than inward. So whereas Glomdoring might be all about deceit and obfuscation, you shouldn't lie to your orgmates, for example. While Magnagora may venerate the ruthless pursuit of personal glory, they shouldn't necessarily be doing it at the cost of their internal infrastructure. Gaudiguch might be about chaos and freedom, but they shouldn't do it at the cost of the most basic order and civility inside the city.

    These are all things which have been problematic in the past, and are, imo, problematic for Hallifax now. It's pretty unreasonable to carry on being a snooty elitist when you're lucky to maintain a 6% share of the game's population day to day. You'll end up with no one to look down on but Fraesic and the Comptrollers (and even they cop an attitude).
    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 591 Gifted
    These are my personal opinions, they may not have even been intended but may give you ideas how you can take other things.

    Glomdoring

    The merciless forest is far more merciful than it should be, but that is part of the fall out from being "toxic".  I agree with Morkarion on this area really, the Forest should be more aggressive and adamantly showing when people are taken to be enemies.  I have a feeling this is coming to fruition as we spoke though.

    Magnagora

    Current Magnagora is pretty quiet, they used to be the epitome of involved in everything.  Hey Glomdoring and Seren are having an event? "Legion form at the Megalith".  90 seconds later, deathsight shows forestals dying everywhere.  Magnagora was the "big brother" for Glom, for awhile having to be their backing if things came up. 

    Old Mag was more militant, the idea of a Warlord as leader was valued. Daevos was the epitome of leadership for the old days, he could overrule any guild decision, any Council standing, etc.  Magnagora was militant and strict, we cracked down on abusers but we expected more from our people.  Anyone remember Mag Tag? No? Rules were simple: Attacking someone tags them, if you can kill them they cannot tag you back.  Mag would have duels at the gates to settle disputes, people were not concerned with dying.

    Old Magnagora design is best summarized by Murphy, to this day.   "Harden up, Princess"

    This was the Mag I adored, when it was exchanges in raiding with Celest. This mainly fell off as new orgs came out and during the times Mag was able to solo basically everyone... the combatants got bored and many of them just never came back.


    Celest

    They are all nice and holy right? No. Gods no.  New Celest (har har har, the current iteration) is all about... nothing.   Can anyone honestly say they seem to be anywhere near as active in their opposition of the Taint?  When is the last time Celest raided Nil every few hours or tried something big or scary.  They have fallen off on their conflict, just as Magnagora has.

    Old Celest... ah old celest.  This was the living proof "good guys" could be vicious.  Want to go on a killing spree? Actively hunt down Tainted? Welcome to the Inquisition style of Celest.  They were organized, they would sometimes jump you (remember the Talkan+Neraka running inqui's?), and they had NO qualms with raiding.


    Serenwilde

    Hugglebunnies and tree hum...huggers!  Not one org I have been in has ever seen Serenwilde as a real concern. They are -the- org known for zerging. I agree they see almost no victories, but they also do not take strong stands on much of anything.  I have found common ground with Seren, someone is killing fae, someone wants to chop trees, etc.  When was the last time anyone was afraid of Serenwilde though? They are not an org of combat, the only combatants they have are generally historic. 

    I would love to see "nature can be harsh too" and for them to be more actively involved.  Right now I just think of them as the diplomatic red head. No one takes them seriously, and everyone is willing to discount them and assume they will accept whatever is done.


    Hallifax

    Honestly I think this org has/had alot of promise. I agree the caste system is a terrible idea when scholars have a standing warriors don't.  Mal to this day avoids Hallifax because he sees them as toxic for true combatants.  He does not want to have to write a thesis to be treated as a high standing (let us face it, Mal does not tolerate being treated as anything but high standing).   Hallifax is partly in opposition to how Mal thinks in that he does not see rank as a measure of position, it is a measure of recognition, corruption, and favours.  Though, I will be honest, if Mal ever had a good deal with Hallifax he might join.  The idea of combat as an art or combat as a science? Yes please.

    Please open the branch of martial and offensive students. <3


    Gaudiguch

    Original RP was amazing in theory.   Care free, no real rules, don't be a dink, be one with your fellow man.  Did that mean no one know how to kill things? No. Should everyone be perma-hammered? No, well yes. That was optional really!  Scuchi Mabuchi was amazingly laid back and made it a fun place to be, it has lost that feel though.

    The whole Kalin travesty made things go corrupt and downhill fast.  It lost its care free and became a clique instead.  





    What I would like to see:
      Glom:  Get their fangs back, get out there and show no mercy.
      Seren: Sharpen those nails and make some claws.  Don't be terrible, but be willing to take the fight to people.
      Mag:    Get the Legion thing going on again, bring back duels maybe.  Honour and warfare were top marks. RAID.
      Celest: Get the inquisition back, let us see more raiding from you guys too. So odd for the two original cities not to war.
      Halli:    Combat sciences division. <3  
      Gaudi:  More care free (not that you guys are super serious right now).
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,320 Transcendent
    "I'm baffled as to why the players of Hallifax have never embraced this viewpoint. It could be so good."

    First I've ever heard of it. Is Maellio one of the many people you've talked to?

    "As for the snootiness and the extremely rigid formality...

    My point of view has always been that any org's negative components should be directed outward, rather than inward."

    I guess we differ in that I don't view it as a "negative component." I also don't see anyone really "looking down on" anyone else these days, but I'll be the first to admit I don't have a huge social circle. I also agree the attitude was problematic in the past, but it was also actively encouraged by Cririk, and then Elostian. Now, there's nothing standing in the way of anyone reaching CR6, so I don't see why we can't live in the fantasy world where the tiny population who produce plays and books (or, in your scenario, engage in the art of war, etc) are the socially elite. (I should note that I don't consider Daraius one of these people. He'll tell you he's nothing more than a bureaucrat, and lacking any current aideships or city positions, even that is tenuous.)

    Anyhoo, I'll stop derailing. I want to hear from Celestians!
  • MarcellaMarcella Member Posts: 1,231 Transcendent
    While we'd love to raid, the only places worth raiding, where we didn't have to contend with crazy things like flux and distort and things like that were godrealms. Now that Celest has no godrealms, we don't really have any free-pvp places to fight that aren't ANNOYING AS HELL to one side to fight. We still have the Midnight Legion, by the way. Duels would be a thing if anyone actually had any issues with each other nowadays, but like I said earlier, Magnagora likes each other a lot more nowadays.
    image
  • TalanTalan Member Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    Daraius said:
    "I'm baffled as to why the players of Hallifax have never embraced this viewpoint. It could be so good."

    First I've ever heard of it. Is Maellio one of the many people you've talked to?

    "As for the snootiness and the extremely rigid formality...

    My point of view has always been that any org's negative components should be directed outward, rather than inward."

    I guess we differ in that I don't view it as a "negative component." I also don't see anyone really "looking down on" anyone else these days, but I'll be the first to admit I don't have a huge social circle. I also agree the attitude was problematic in the past, but it was also actively encouraged by Cririk, and then Elostian. Now, there's nothing standing in the way of anyone reaching CR6, so I don't see why we can't live in the fantasy world where the tiny population who produce plays and books (or, in your scenario, engage in the art of war, etc) are the socially elite. (I should note that I don't consider Daraius one of these people. He'll tell you he's nothing more than a bureaucrat, and lacking any current aideships or city positions, even that is tenuous.)

    Anyhoo, I'll stop derailing. I want to hear from Celestians!
    When I first came to Hallifax, Morbo had me doing pamphlets and reports on revolts and flares, trying to pin down the procedures and roles, and refining tactics as my introduction to "the sciences." There was zero interest in actually integrating these things into what people do, and even trying to get people to read them was a struggle. It ended up being just busy work for me - an assignment. Homework that is never graded, reports that are never read.

    That doesn't inspire me to try again on the org level, nor should the burden rest entirely on me and Maellio, who I assure you hears more than enough feedback from me on a variety of issues. This is something that should be an org-wide interest. What baffles me is that it never has been.

    -

    The fact that you don't see being openly rude to other Hallifaxians as a "negative component" is part of the problem for me.

    And again, I'm not certainly not saying that 'the art of war' should be all there is. I'm saying that, contrary to what you posted above, a player who excels at the art of combat should be allowed equal respect as a player that excels at the art of play-writing. Recognizing new fields in academia does not diminish the existing ones - it expands them. That is the ideal. Open, not closed.

    Why are you so keen in limiting our fantasy world to the arbitrary quantifiers of "books and plays" when it comes to establishing what makes a worthwhile contributor? And why would anyone given the opportunity to craft the ideal embrace and encourage the very problems that malign the real world art and intellectual communities (snobbery and elitism)?

    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,320 Transcendent
    edited September 2013
    "That doesn't inspire me to try again on the org level, nor should the burden rest entirely on me and Maellio, who I assure you hears more than enough feedback from me on a variety of issues. This is something that should be an org-wide interest. What baffles me is that it never has been."

    The burden rests on the city leadership to get things moving, at least, if there are perceived problems. It sounds like Morbo was attempting it, but how effective could those efforts be if they were never publicized by the leadership? There aren't that many people in Hallifax to begin with, so if new norms are established, I doubt there would be much backlash. 

    "The fact that you don't see being openly rude to other Hallifaxians as a "negative component" is part of the problem for me."

    Rigid formality and open rudeness are completely different animals. So long as we're clear on that, I agree with you. I don't have a guild or access to BoD talk, and of course I don't listen in on conversations. I don't see open rudeness happening anymore, but like I said, my social circles are limited. Maybe I'm wrong! 

    "Why are you so keen in limiting our fantasy world to the arbitrary quantifiers of "books and plays" when it comes to establishing what makes a worthwhile contributor?"

    I'm not. I'm perfectly fine with an expanded definition of "artist" and "scientist" as long as it makes sense. Your explanations make sense, I've just never heard them before and I'm not in any position to codify them, or suggest they be codified.

    I don't think we're in disagreement fundamentally.

    Quoooootes. God I hate these forums sometimes.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,808 Transcendent
    @Malarious, all of your opinions on org RP are based solely on PvP. I like to think that there are many more options for org RP that aren't "go out and kill people."
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • DysDys Member Posts: 512 Expert
    Everiine said:



    I will never understand how readily Dracnari are accepted in Hallifax and Trill in Gaudiguch. Haven't checked much on New Celest, but they still have their Viscanti ban, don't they? And Magnagora still mistreats Elfen, right? Serenwilde still doesn't accept any Illithoid. Does Glomdoring ban anyone?

    Gaudiguch is a city of individuals, so why ban someone just because they're from a featherbrained race? Same with illithoid, there are individuals who've grown beyond their race's harsh beginnings.

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