Wobou vs Rivius

RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppyMember Posts: 1,617 Transcendent
http://www.logsty.com/logs/hSA9w

I probably shouldn't be too proud about this because he said his parry/stance isn't working right, but I felt good anyway! Fought through a few hard things like senso immunity, peacing and hindering.

Comments

  • OllieOllie Member Posts: 29 Apprentice
    Yes...you defeated the Wobou hax =D>
  • LothringenLothringen Member Posts: 265 Fabled
    Nice one!
    image
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Huh? Aren't you a Lobo, Rivius? Your health total looks a little low, for some reason. Roughly near 7k health or so? (Maybe my math is bad, I dunno.)

    Also, wow, I've been seriously underestimating Shofangi bleed all these while. A single grapple without proccing the laceration modifier gives 250+ bleed, and the shred grapple ender gives 650+? Wow. Nekotai amihai (the bleed/poison grapple ender) does all of 100 bleed at 5mo, lol (and obviously, none of my grapples give bleed). Can you imagine if the laceration mod proc'd on shred? Thank god it looks like it has a relatively low chance. Even without the lacerations, though, I'd only be able to do this kind of bleed if I'm lucky enough to proc vessels for a few forms consecutively, and proc a high number of vessels per form. Sheesh.

    ... Also, where is wobou's insomnia/kafe? At timestamp 23374, a lucky stupidity proc put him to sleep (doesn't insomnia block this?) and he didn't wake until he got hit by you at 23379. wtf? Basic defenses yo!Doesn't seem to be curing wounds as vigorously as he should, either. After all that time Rivius spent running around to stave off a bleed death, the fight restarted with medium wounds on Wobou's head. =/

    Also, hrm, wobou needs to trigger the rend message to standing up. (I shall do that, too. >.>)

  • ShedrinShedrin Member Posts: 905 Transcendent
    Wobou is still working on his system. It's missing a lot still, but the parts it does have it does really well.
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,617 Transcendent
    Yeah, now that you point that out, that was weird. Not sure why he didn't have insomnia on that stamp without going through the log again (which I'll do later). I guess he just didn't have it at the start of the fight. He did keep it up successfully every time after though and it seems you're right about the missing kafe actually. Heh.

    Base lobo without blessings puts me at about 6460 health or so. I don't use any con buffs but I had a throne blessing there.

    The bleeding is pretty deadly for sure, especially since lacerations aren't really on your radar as the scariest affs to be curing. So mixed with senso and blindness, it builds quickly. Some people handle it better than others though. It destroys me because of how bad my mana is, but there's some people who honestly tank it.

    As for the medium wound on restart, when did that happen? That's probably another curing bug then, though it did feel like I wasn't getting anywhere at the start.

  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor Member Posts: 1,264 Transcendent
    His rage-inducing peace pony and dislocates really help with sticking lacerates too.  His herb stack is rough. :(

    Though is he also missing rebounding upkeep? Never having to raze would help a lot.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    edited April 2013

    there were quite a few times when you were forced to run, it was the first or second. the last time you did so, he came back fully cured, so it wasn't a factor in your win. he'll def want to fix it tho.

    it isn't the lacerations that was pwning you face. it was the flat bleed plus dislocated leg. shofangi hook mod procs based on wounds, damage scales to wounds, laceration procs as well, (i think.) the flat bleed stops you from applying health to cure dislocation wounds. the next time he grapples you, the hook chance gets boosted by that much, which gives him a free stance parry bypass PLUS prone damage multiplier. by the time he's doing the third grapple loop, you're pretty much guarantee'd to get hooked, taking 1000+ damage from a 400 damage attack and still getting bleeded out of your ass.

    grapples have the ostensible weakness of not being able to give monk arm action affs, only poisons, in exchange to unlocking powerful enders. nekotai had to fight tooth and nail to get a grapple that even gives poisons. the laceration mod lets a shofangi give affs with his grapple AND apparently the grapple (and the ender) gives poisons as well. in addition to hook being proccable on the grapple, gives a free prone.

    tanking this tactic is possible if you have a high health pool. you ignore the bleeding, put dislocation higher on priority and stance parry legs while aplying health to keep wounds low. then you pray that hook doesn't proc and nullify stance parry anyway. either that or you be an acrobatic to lock enders out of his repertoire, prioritising chest wounds so stomp chest can't stun you as he does the grapple.

    edit: there formatting fixed

  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    ... sorry for the horrible formatting. posting on my phone is bad

  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    edited April 2013
    also, you should seriously consider getting the demi con and a con platter. you'd sit at 7.5k normally, and hit 9k without surge if you have a throne blessing plus favor. don't waste that sweet lobo regen, man.

  • WobouWobou Member Posts: 137 Adept
    Lerad said:

    there were quite a few times when you were forced to run, it was the first or second. the last time you did so, he came back fully cured, so it wasn't a factor in your win. he'll def want to fix it tho.

    it isn't the lacerations that was pwning you face. it was the flat bleed plus dislocated leg. shofangi hook mod procs based on wounds, damage scales to wounds, laceration procs as well, (i think.) the flat bleed stops you from applying health to cure dislocation wounds. the next time he grapples you, the hook chance gets boosted by that much, which gives him a free stance parry bypass PLUS prone damage multiplier. by the time he's doing the third grapple loop, you're pretty much guarantee'd to get hooked, taking 1000+ damage from a 400 damage attack and still getting bleeded out of your ass.

    grapples have the ostensible weakness of not being able to give monk arm action affs, only poisons, in exchange to unlocking powerful enders. nekotai had to fight tooth and nail to get a grapple that even gives poisons. the laceration mod lets a shofangi give affs with his grapple AND apparently the grapple (and the ender) gives poisons as well. in addition to hook being proccable on the grapple, gives a free prone.

    tanking this tactic is possible if you have a high health pool. you ignore the bleeding, put dislocation higher on priority and stance parry legs while aplying health to keep wounds low. then you pray that hook doesn't proc and nullify stance parry anyway. either that or you be an acrobatic to lock enders out of his repertoire, prioritising chest wounds so stomp chest can't stun you as he does the grapple.

    edit: there formatting fixed
    Unfortunately his curing is good and he cures dislocates up front, which means I have to rely on being able to chain shreds -> drain mana -> force wounds to get anywhere. Not that I'm complaining but it's very sensitive to hindering.

    Also I want to clear one thing up about hook, it always prones if I can hit your leg, the thing that's based on wounds is a stun chance at around heavy. It doesn't improve damage anymore so than being a prone.

    It saddens me that my combat basically involves pressing three forms at the right time even after RL years of experimenting. I tried to expand the types of forms I could use but even with a open gut/open chest the double lacerations is simply better, and to do anything to the other forms of shred to make it comparable would make it too powerful. Back when I was envoy I tried to come up with alternative kill methods (like reformulating crunch away from being simultaneously difficult to pull off and incredibly unfair) but when you're perceived as being overpowered already it's difficult to open up new combat avenues. I'm jealous of guardian guilds like Nihis and Researchers that have multiple avenues to a kill.

    Also I have yet to find an answer for any acrobat with more than say 4k health solo.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Wait, what? Hook is a 100% sprawl chance? That can't be right. For one, there are quite a few grapple forms in there where you didn't hook, and Rivius wasn't prone before then. And for two, that's plain ridiculous. Hook is a mod applied to arm actions, and it doesn't cost power nor momentum, and only 150 ka. That's the same as pinchnerve, which is more restrictive and wound based. If hook is 100% sprawl chance when an arm action hits a leg, then that's seriously broken.

    Monks are generally speaking sensitive to hindering. Not only does hindering slow down the next oncoming hit and gives an extra bit of window to cure, it also can drop momentum, which translates to even longer before the monk can hit with strong affs. And this is the only thing that barely keeps them in check, with most of their affs specifiable and non-wound based, easy access to debilitating regen affs, alongside generally superior parry/stance bypass (except for a couple of exceptions), two-layer raze and stackable damage multipliers.

    Offensively, Shofangi do suffer from a general lack of variety when compared to other monk guilds, but they have an even stronger regen/salve stack than the Tahtetso, as well as, as this log clearly shows, top-of-the-line bleeding and wound building.

    Back to the log, through, I noticed there's definitely problems with your wound curing. At timestamp 24153, Rivius hits your right arm for severed nerve and brings it to medium (compare the assess at 24153 and the assess at 24157 to see the increase in wounding), but instead of curing the heavy wounds on left arm first (or more importantly, the heavy left leg wounds), you cured the right arm instead (assess at 24161 shows right arm down to trifling).

    I might be wrong, of course, but if I remember correctly, apply to arms should cure off the higher wounded arm first, right? Not sure why the application went to right arm instead. Also, left arm/right arm aside, I feel you might have done better to cure the leg wounds to medium at least, first, so the rng has a higher chance of screwing with his tendon tries while you apply head/arms wounds back down. Collapsednerves on arms is ouch, but tendon is clearly the stronger aff from Rivius' point of view, and clearly what gives him the most advantage (chances to hack down), so countering that should take priority. Not to mention that tendon gives more bleed than collapsenerves (I think? Not 100% sure) and will let him build more wounds on you if it forces you to sip.

  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,617 Transcendent
    edited April 2013
    If both your arms and legs have wounds and you apply health to them, it has a random chance of curing either one. I'm not sure what happened on those timestamps but I'm willing to bet his system overestimated me bringing that arm to critical. Notice after the assess I got a lunge and a strike in. Either that or he figured it was closer to critical than the leg, which is a small priority tweak he could make.

    After talking to Wobou and looking over the log more, yeah he's lacking a lot of defenses that would faceroll me though (psi armour, deflect, rebounding). So on a good day I wouldn't even get past light/medium on him :p (which is a bit depressing).

    As for the con, I should carry platters more for sure. My weight's all used up for demi-con though, sadly.
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