General Dissatisfaction

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    "It's ok if the griefer is on your side, but sucks when he's against you."

    Ponder the idea that the person raiding you used to raid others, and you didn't try to stop it. Ponder the idea that other people have likely quit because they kept getting raided constantly.


    No offense, Saz, but you aren't a special snowflake. You're somewhat new, and this crap you're going through is absolutely -nothing- compared to the griefing that used to go on. I don't want to see you up and quit,  but if conflict is bothering you that much, maybe it's better for your mental health if you jump ship. Serenwilde will find someone easily to replace you, and the game will go on without you. I mean, quitting fixes it. Right? Giving up makes the pain go away.



    Also, what Rideta said, but with less sarcasm than my earlier stuff.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited November 2016
    Okay -- I know you think you're some kind of scholar on griefing or think you've seen it all, but that doesn't mean you get to belittle or call his experience invalid. Yes, griefing is on a smaller scale than it was a few years ago. No, you shouldn't act condescending towards him for it. Seriously.

    New people are going to see your attitude and not want to play. That is just the worst kind of message you can send.

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  • This seems like a seriously good RP opportunity, after a bit of time has passed for a break from the issues caused by it. Especially with the person who actually did the killing (>.> It was Avu, wasn't it).  There's some good characters here that can use this stuff to make some pretty darn amazing stories for their RP.

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited November 2016
    Nobody wants to roleplay with Avurekhos. He's a grade A drama llama and he marches to his own drum beat. It's not even remotely fun -- in fact, I'd even go as far as to say that Avurekhos is the one who has burned the bridges as far as opening lines of communication goes, with the constant hit and run of his former home, epic quest grief, leaving Lisaera as an Avatar and joining Fain, not leaving for any real valid reason etc. This is not someone who wants to be talked to, in my eyes.

    edit: oh yeah, can't forget the elder moonhart chopping :|

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  • :) I was RPing with Avu in Mag just the other day! He's pretty darn good with it. But I can get the feeling about not wanting to RP with someone whose RP has changed to the polar opposite to the org they chose to leave.  

    That still leaves lots of RP open in the actual Seren commune though, especially in regards to characters growing and changing, learning how the other communes/cities (Hoboy especially CelestMag) deal with epic quest problems. Or heck, even just approaching the Mag Warlord IG to start talk about "Hey uh, can you reign him in a bit?".

  • Yes -- I meant as a Serenwilder or anybody who defends Serenwilde on a regular basis, sorry. And you have to realize -- not everyone has time to sublimate the emotion they feel from getting griefed into something positive like character growth or change, as is the case with Saz. It's unfair to people who play the game even semi-casually.

    And if we want to talk history, Magnagora (or the Iron Council) has never given a serious effort to "reign in" their rowdier citizens: see Marcella and Arcanis for recent times.

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Maligorn said:
    Nobody wants to roleplay with Avurekhos with the constant hit and run of his former home, epic quest grief, leaving Lisaera as an Avatar and joining Fain, not leaving for any real valid reason etc. This is not someone who wants to be talked to, in my eyes.
    Maligorn said:
    Okay -- I know you think you're some kind of scholar on roleplay or think you've seen it all, but that doesn't mean you get to belittle or call his roleplay invalid.


    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • You've got me there! Afraid I was on my break when most of that bout of Magnagoran RP history was happening. I only remember Marcella getting hung a few times for IC RP things. 

  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Maligorn said:

    And if we want to talk history, Magnagora (or the Iron Council) has never given a serious effort to "reign in" their rowdier citizens: see Marcella and Arcanis for recent times.
    It took them a long time and a couple of Warlords, but they eventually put both Arcanis and Marcella on a one-strike-and-out warning (it was part of our Treaty with them, in fact).  So they do have the ability and willingness to do it if they have to.

    Need to be fair about it (yes, it took them a long time, a lot of anger / frustration / etc, but it did happen).
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Pectus said:
    You've got me there! Afraid I was on my break when most of that bout of Magnagoran RP history was happening. I only remember Marcella getting hung a few times for IC RP things. 
    Also being fair: Marcella begged for the hanging every time, she wanted it, and nobody (except maybe a small handful of Mags) ever saw it as real punishment.

    The threat to be booted out of Magnagora was a real punishment.
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  • Xenthos said:
    Pectus said:
    You've got me there! Afraid I was on my break when most of that bout of Magnagoran RP history was happening. I only remember Marcella getting hung a few times for IC RP things. 
    Also being fair: Marcella begged for the hanging every time, she wanted it, and nobody (except maybe a small handful of Mags) ever saw it as real punishment.

    The threat to be booted out of Magnagora was a real punishment.
    Man. That's what I get for disappearing. I swear I missed out on the best Magdrama :lol: How did it end? 

  • Xenthos said:
    ...

    Mostly unrelated to the above: Rideta, ICly it's very hard for organizations to actually agree to anything like that.  There was a period of time where Glomdoring went well above and beyond what we needed to do to Serenwilde and held out the "If you want it to stop RP surrender to us" branch.  They never did.  Why?  That was the last shred of remaining RP that they had, resistance to us.  They discussed how surrendering / begging for mercy would basically just leave them a hollow shell, and there is a valid argument to make there (would you like Magnagora to surrender to Celest, for example?).  It's a very tough decision.

    -----------------------

    I feel that an OOC level it's important for players to keep in mind the other players involved in other organizations as well.  We want them to have fun. 

    We want our folks to have fun, too.

    I do think that raids are an important part of the game.  I also strongly feel that excessive raiding is not good for the game, because it just drains and exhausts those people who we need to stick around.  It is up to us as players to work with each other to try to find a good balance (and no, "never raid us ever!" isn't a valid balance either).

    It's not really fair to expect the admin to step in to handhold us, or to make lots of mechanical changes to deal with us.  We make our own problems a lot of the time, and it's up to us to figure out a good way to deal with them to the benefit of the most of us.

    These are very fair observations to make, actually. I suppose I'm viewing this in the context that while we aren't fond of eachother, Mag/Seren aren't at the polar opposites of the spectrum like Gaudi/Halli or Celest/Mag. They're a side project. I could be wrong.

    That being said though, I would argue that doing literally anything IC, in any capacity, should be the avenue run through first. Perhaps not utter surrender,  I mean obviously not total surrender, but even hashing out potential options would be a good place to begin... right? Clearly there's enough going on to warrant treating with the enemy.
    (Magnagora): Thax says, "My truest favour to the soldier that brings me the weave of Neos."
  • Here's the thing. It's not that Serenwilde is capitulating to Magnagora or anything. We're fighting these guys off all the time. It's just that they just constantly come back as soon as they see the defenders are gone and pick off mobs/non-coms. These guys aren't looking for a fight. They're looking to grief.
  • I am profoundly unhappy to have watched Rossdis functionally win a vengeance game without saying or doing a single thing, no offense to the player who I am led to understand timed out.  I would have pulled out RL hair if I had any to spare.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited November 2016
    Shaddus said:
    Maligorn said:
    Nobody wants to roleplay with Avurekhos with the constant hit and run of his former home, epic quest grief, leaving Lisaera as an Avatar and joining Fain, not leaving for any real valid reason etc. This is not someone who wants to be talked to, in my eyes.
    Maligorn said:
    Okay -- I know you think you're some kind of scholar on roleplay or think you've seen it all, but that doesn't mean you get to belittle or call his roleplay invalid.


    I mean...the difference here being that Saz has done -none- of these things, nor has Avurekhos made a post outlining why he's literally -quitting the game- because of the actions of his former Seren communemates. Come on.

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    My point is that you really shouldn't say I can't "invalidate someone's feelings" and in almost the same breath invalidate Avurekhos' rp and why he does what he does.

    Not only that, but I'm pretty sure you've defended Ciaran raiding Glomdoring strictly for the fact that he needed a pk fix, which really has no rp to it. Avurekhos, who I've been roleplaying with and quite literally twisting to use as a weapon to strike at Lisaera, has a reason to raid. If you bothered to rp with Magnagora, or even Shaddus (who you'll notice is unenemied to your city and order), maybe you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Avurekhos.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    The OOC plotting and bullying was a major part of the reason I left two years ago. How can a game be fun when the playerbase is trying to spite one another so much?

    Rideta was spot on about people being unable to seperate between players and characters, this doesn't just lead to an unhealthy dislike of people you know little to nothing about, but also leaves people almost willingly blind at times when their own allies engage in behaviour they would normally cry foul at.

    The "us vs them" mindset is great for establishing some character identity but it shouldn't be a factor of this game as players.

    This is the same dumb thing you see when people treat others like crap for being Alliance/Horde in Warcraft. The difference is they're a community of millions, this is a small place and the ripples of such pointless ill feeling are felt by everyone.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • So Avurekhos was raiding glom and now hes raiding seren in the same manner?
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited November 2016
    Man. I roleplayed with Marcella, and -- you can say what you want about her, but she had an extremely keen mind for lore and interpretation of such. For example, I would've never made the connection that krokani were banned from becoming vernal gods after shards figured out that Crazen could corrupt them because he has Krokano's original eyes. Marcella did, though (and obviously I don't know the full story, like maybe she picked that up from someone else or there was a lore bit in a quest (most likely the Goloth questline gave her the idea?))...but I digress. The point is, I don't really feel the need to roleplay with a Magnagoran because I've seen a good bit of it -- more than dipped my toes into their philosophy and thought about it for a good long time. I also blame my copious alting for this disinterest.

    The point I was trying to make is that Avurekhos is far from innocent, and he has many strikes against him that -do- make me think less of his motivations. And you know, I think I can say that there's definitely a chance that I'm totally in the wrong for thinking like that. The issue is -- are -you- going to own up to the fact that you just told Saz to "toughen up" like Ciaran just did a few posts ago?

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  • Shaddus said:
    My point is that you really shouldn't say I can't "invalidate someone's feelings" and in almost the same breath invalidate Avurekhos' rp and why he does what he does.

    Not only that, but I'm pretty sure you've defended Ciaran raiding Glomdoring strictly for the fact that he needed a pk fix, which really has no rp to it. Avurekhos, who I've been roleplaying with and quite literally twisting to use as a weapon to strike at Lisaera, has a reason to raid. If you bothered to rp with Magnagora, or even Shaddus (who you'll notice is unenemied to your city and order), maybe you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Avurekhos.
    Also, jeez, I'm sorry -- I do remember defending Ciaran for raiding. I don't remember defending him for griefing.

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  • edited November 2016
    Ciaran said:
    Dylara said:
    Man, when I complained I got told to toughen up and take it. Glad to see the other side wants to see it stop too now.

    Sorry to hear about your leaving Saz, I know exactly how you feel, and I wish you didn't feel forced into this because it sucks, majorly. Take a bit of a break, and also ignore raids when you're just not feeling  it if you decide to keep playing, even if it means all the time, and ignore people who force you into defending if it's just not your cup of tea. I hope whatever you choose, you're happy and you're enjoying yourself, always a sad day to lose a Lusternia player.
    Your false equivalence is bullshit.

    Toughen up


    I mean we talked about Raiding before Ciaran.

    Now I've been someone who's been on the receiving end of your, others and avurekhos raids. The ones where we we're super out numbered and had no chance and that went on all day long, the ones where it was just 1 person raiding and running as soon as enough pk people came to fight them off and the raids that have been pretty balanced. And I've done raids in a similar fashion(Except the day long massively outnumbered raids because any raid where I've been on a bigger number side has stopped usually after about an hour or so.


    Now I enjoyed them to some extent and I've gotten bored of the ones that had no hope either way.

    I can get how other people didn't but the experience Saz and Dylara have had is pretty identical. So you can't really be dismissing her like that.


    EDIT: Actually Dylara's experience was a bit different she had to deal with larger raids than Saz did but the principal is the same I guesss.

  • I'm just annoyed. Trying to speak completely objectively here: Avurekhos raided Glomdoring a -lot-, especially when Caerlyr was around. Now he's doing the same thing to Serenwilde. And it seems like most people are changing their tune to fit the alliance. It bothers me.

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  • edited November 2016
    Maligorn said:
    I'm just annoyed. Trying to speak completely objectively here: Avurekhos raided Glomdoring a -lot-, especially when Caerlyr was around. Now he's doing the same thing to Serenwilde. And it seems like most people are changing their tune to fit the alliance. It bothers me.

    Yea there's a lot of double speak it seems, people who were defending him a few months ago are now his biggest critic etc vise versa and so on.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Exactly my point.

    Maligorn said:

    Also, jeez, I'm sorry -- I do remember defending Ciaran for raiding. I don't remember defending him for griefing.

    If you'd be so kind as to let let us know where one ends and the other begins, that'd be great. Otherwise I have this odd idea that everyone's opinion is different.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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