Also if I missed a post saying exactly what u asked you, sorry, I need to stop checking my phone at 5am without my glasses on.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
1
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Weiwae has been way too vocal and drawn far too much attention to Himself for Him to be scum. Most likely pursuing Him is a trap likely to get us stuck until the next day phase with no new information.
You don't think scum players can be vocal? Just to be devil's advocate here, every time Kiradawea plays scum, she's vocal.
And @Dylara, @Fyler voted for Weiwae and said they don't support an Ushaara lynch:
Okay, so I'm going to reject the Ushaara argument as having the most potential to teach us something as nonsensical. You're assuming his role will reveal something based on your own assumptions about the game roles and how traitors will fit into it. If you look at the game as a blank slate, that the traditional roles in the lore have no bearing on the mafia game roles, which is really what you should be doing, that line of reasoning is pretty barren of merit. An assumption based on assumptions is not enough for me to lynch someone.
As I said, I made this comment earlier. We should not assume the lore has any real bearing on the mafia game roles. It's just not Silvanus's style, and it would also make this game painfully easy and dull.
So the question is "who now?" Obviously I'm disagreeing with Sylandra here, but I understand Sylandra's reasoning. Even if I objectively disagree with it, I understand the origin of her position and how she arrived at it. Her argument makes sense based on her perspective, therefor I don't think she's doing anything suspicious.
However, I do find the person arguing against Sylandra odd, as their arguments haven't really connected for me. Whether it's lack of understanding or just misrepresentation, I'm not sure, but the reality is deceiving investigations is a real and very common mafia power, and mafia (for example, if Ushaara was mafia) opening themselves up without deliberately saying "investigate me" is a very real way to buy them credibility with the town. Investigators are important, they are decidedly not foolproof by design. Furthermore, broadcasting who should be investigated is a good way to give the mafia more info than necessary, and baiting that kind of behavior is definitely eyebrow raising. Sylandra's position isn't fabricated out of whole cloth, and I think my vote is for the person trying to portray it as such.
SO WEEWEE, I POINT THE FINGER OF JUDGEMENT AT YOU.
Vote: Weiwae
That being said, my argument isn't bulletproof and I'm aware of that but I think we need an alternative that is not Ushaara. I also give @Selenity a suspicious eyebrow for being intentionally and unnecessarily vague. I don't really understand the value of "thanks for confirming my suspicions" comment other than making people confused.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
@Fyler - Responding to the "intentional vagueness"... I am ill currently and my brain is more scrambled than normal. I had said previously that I had a gut feeling that Ushaara was not scum and that Lehki was suspicious. As in, based in no (observable to me) fact. I thanked you for confirming what I thought because I could not find a way to put to words what I was feeling or find reasoning behind it, but you managed to.
Feel free to raise an eyebrow at me though. That's pretty well-warranted whether or not we're playing mafia!
Weiwae has been way too vocal and drawn far too much attention to Himself for Him to be scum. Most likely pursuing Him is a trap likely to get us stuck until the next day phase with no new information.
You don't think scum players can be vocal? Just to be devil's advocate here, every time Kiradawea plays scum, she's vocal.
And @Dylara, @Fyler voted for Weiwae and said they don't support an Ushaara lynch:
Okay, so I'm going to reject the Ushaara argument as having the most potential to teach us something as nonsensical. You're assuming his role will reveal something based on your own assumptions about the game roles and how traitors will fit into it. If you look at the game as a blank slate, that the traditional roles in the lore have no bearing on the mafia game roles, which is really what you should be doing, that line of reasoning is pretty barren of merit. An assumption based on assumptions is not enough for me to lynch someone.
As I said, I made this comment earlier. We should not assume the lore has any real bearing on the mafia game roles. It's just not Silvanus's style, and it would also make this game painfully easy and dull.
So the question is "who now?" Obviously I'm disagreeing with Sylandra here, but I understand Sylandra's reasoning. Even if I objectively disagree with it, I understand the origin of her position and how she arrived at it. Her argument makes sense based on her perspective, therefor I don't think she's doing anything suspicious.
However, I do find the person arguing against Sylandra odd, as their arguments haven't really connected for me. Whether it's lack of understanding or just misrepresentation, I'm not sure, but the reality is deceiving investigations is a real and very common mafia power, and mafia (for example, if Ushaara was mafia) opening themselves up without deliberately saying "investigate me" is a very real way to buy them credibility with the town. Investigators are important, they are decidedly not foolproof by design. Furthermore, broadcasting who should be investigated is a good way to give the mafia more info than necessary, and baiting that kind of behavior is definitely eyebrow raising. Sylandra's position isn't fabricated out of whole cloth, and I think my vote is for the person trying to portray it as such.
SO WEEWEE, I POINT THE FINGER OF JUDGEMENT AT YOU.
Vote: Weiwae
That being said, my argument isn't bulletproof and I'm aware of that but I think we need an alternative that is not Ushaara. I also give @Selenity a suspicious eyebrow for being intentionally and unnecessarily vague. I don't really understand the value of "thanks for confirming my suspicions" comment other than making people confused.
Oh okay, I did just miss it. Sorry Fyler, you can ignore my question!
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Kira is vocal as scum, but usually lends her voice to arguments in progress and reinforcing safer lynches. Weiwae has been hammering against the established assumption and acting in a way that does nothing but draw attention to Himself.
Like I said, I disagree with His logic, but He's clearly not new to mafia in general and would know aging against an established narrative puts the spotlight on Him instead. I just think He's not likely to fall for that trap.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
That's fair, but I think I disagree with you regarding how seasoned Weiwae is or isn't in mafia. I think it's only his second game, yeah?
I guess the main reason I have this impression is that his comments about the investigator and "no-lynches" both seemed misinformed to me, and I understood that as being new to the conventions of mafia.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
So. My thoughts on this, now that things have calmed down some...
Re: Ushaara: I completely buy that he's Malmydia. No Soulless would lie about being a Traitor in this game, and no town would have a reason to lie. I also believe that he is telling the truth in saying that he's on our side, but there's certainly a possibility of him lying about it. As such, I won't argue against lynching him, but at this point I'll not join in myself. I believe it would be more beneficial to lynch him rather than lynch no one though, so if the day drags on too long, that might change.
Re: Sylandra: She seems to be very aggressive about the votes, both during day one and this day. It almost seems as if she wants the days to end early, which I personally don't think directly benefits town. Sure, we have powers to use during the night as well, but it's during the days we can discuss and argue and try to piece things together, and I don't think it's a bad idea to have days last longer rather than shorter.
Re: Weiwae: The biggest problem I have with him is that he kept misrepresenting Sylandras arguments, and was, at least in my view, exceedingly vocal in Ushaara's defense. No, we cannot simply wait until we are handed information on a golden platter. Yes, we have to doubt what investigators say (there's scum that investigate as town, there's town that investigate as scum, there's both naive and paranoid investigators, there are scum investigators, etc). Yes, the only 100% reliable information is through a flip. Should we just discard everything an investigator says? Of course not. We simply shouldn't wait until they say something, or we'll never get anything done. Do I believe that Weiwae protects Ushaara because they're in the same scum faction? Of course not. If Weiwae is scum, then Ushaara is almost definitely town; going this far in defending another scum is just asking to be lynched right afterwards. What it might be, however, is Weiwae laying down an argument for why he's town ("Well, if I were scum, then obviously I would've just voted Ushaara off; instead I argued against lynching a fellow town").
I think that's about it. For now, for the reasons mentioned above, I will
He stated He likes figuring out the set up and dislikes Town of Salem for how trivial that is there. It may be His second game here, but I don't think it's His second ever game. Lusternia has some oddness with our set ups so if He primarily played elsewhere it'd make sense for some of His thought processes to seem odd to us.
Sylandra is getting a lot of flak for being aggressive, when the only reason she posted so much to defend her point of view in the first place was due to Weiwae's frequent accusations that she was making her vote for the wrong reasons. She's an aggressive player who took the time to support her views and try to explain where she was coming from when she felt her argument was being misrepresented by someone else. I don't understand how that makes her a good target to lynch, especially during a day where people have been saying that folks who vote quietly and join trains are more suspicious than people who back up their positions.
It's funny how we've basically been saying the same things, but she's got the target painted on her, and I for the most part do not. If voting for Ushaara or wanting the game to move forward was such a terrible thing, you would think I would be receiving just as much fire. So I'm extremely suspicious that this train has gotten rolling with a focus on condemning specifically her when she's hardly the only one to say exactly the things she has been saying. Is it really about the content of her posts, or is she simply the easiest target because she was the first on this side of the argument to have a vote cast against her?
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
He stated He likes figuring out the set up and dislikes Town of Salem for how trivial that is there. It may be His second game here, but I don't think it's His second ever game. Lusternia has some oddness with our set ups so if He primarily played elsewhere it'd make sense for some of His thought processes to seem odd to us.
(Are you sure you're not confusing his post with mine? Because I made that comment about Town of Salem earlier.)
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
2
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
So. My thoughts on this, now that things have calmed down some...
Re: Ushaara: I completely buy that he's Malmydia. No Soulless would lie about being a Traitor in this game, and no town would have a reason to lie. I also believe that he is telling the truth in saying that he's on our side, but there's certainly a possibility of him lying about it. As such, I won't argue against lynching him, but at this point I'll not join in myself. I believe it would be more beneficial to lynch him rather than lynch no one though, so if the day drags on too long, that might change.
Re: Sylandra: She seems to be very aggressive about the votes, both during day one and this day. It almost seems as if she wants the days to end early, which I personally don't think directly benefits town. Sure, we have powers to use during the night as well, but it's during the days we can discuss and argue and try to piece things together, and I don't think it's a bad idea to have days last longer rather than shorter.
Re: Weiwae: The biggest problem I have with him is that he kept misrepresenting Sylandras arguments, and was, at least in my view, exceedingly vocal in Ushaara's defense. No, we cannot simply wait until we are handed information on a golden platter. Yes, we have to doubt what investigators say (there's scum that investigate as town, there's town that investigate as scum, there's both naive and paranoid investigators, there are scum investigators, etc). Yes, the only 100% reliable information is through a flip. Should we just discard everything an investigator says? Of course not. We simply shouldn't wait until they say something, or we'll never get anything done. Do I believe that Weiwae protects Ushaara because they're in the same scum faction? Of course not. If Weiwae is scum, then Ushaara is almost definitely town; going this far in defending another scum is just asking to be lynched right afterwards. What it might be, however, is Weiwae laying down an argument for why he's town ("Well, if I were scum, then obviously I would've just voted Ushaara off; instead I argued against lynching a fellow town").
I think that's about it. For now, for the reasons mentioned above, I will
Vote: Sylandra
I get that being aggressive makes me a target.
But I unvoted to let the day's discussion continue. That's not "pushing to end the day." That's literally slowing the day down. I didn't even vote Weiwae.
I also had the chance to end the dayphase yesterday and deliberately held back and let Vivet post. She's the one who ended yesterday, not me. I also didn't choose the faster lynch train. I was on the slower one, which I said several times I expected to fail to meet the votes needed to end the day.
I like lynches. I'm not as impatient as I'm being portrayed, though.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I need some time to catch up before chatting again, but let me just say that part of me is enjoying the wall-o-texts because it's been a while since I've seen so many from a variety of people in a game.
Sylandra is getting a lot of flak for being aggressive, when the only reason she posted so much to defend her point of view in the first place was due to Weiwae's frequent accusations that she was making her vote for the wrong reasons. She's an aggressive player who took the time to support her views and try to explain where she was coming from when she felt her argument was being misrepresented by someone else. I don't understand how that makes her a good target to lynch, especially during a day where people have been saying that folks who vote quietly and join trains are more suspicious than people who back up their positions.
It's funny how we've basically been saying the same things, but she's got the target painted on her, and I for the most part do not. If voting for Ushaara or wanting the game to move forward was such a terrible thing, you would think I would be receiving just as much fire. So I'm extremely suspicious that this train has gotten rolling with a focus on condemning specifically her when she's hardly the only one to say exactly the things she has been saying. Is it really about the content of her posts, or is she simply the easiest target because she was the first on this side of the argument to have a vote cast against her?
So, you aren't understanding what Ssaliss and I said about Sylandra being "aggressive". We both stated that we see her pushing for votes and telling people to vote for anyone. It has nothing to do with her post count.
One of the things I find most frustrating in mafia games is that you know there are more than one mafia member, but you can't go pointing fingers at 2 or 3 people at once without looking crazy and paranoid. (Granted, the game encourages paranoia). So the fact that you are saying the same thing as Sylandra , but nobody is pointing fingers as you isn't really all that surprising. On the other hand, quite a few people are suggesting that your main arguments to lynch Ushaara are more valid than I gave them credit for. I'm still not a fan of punishing people who volunteer juicy information, but I can see the logic of the counter arguments now.
I am defending Ushaara for the same reason I tried to stop the train on Shadus. I distrust quick trains.
I can't say I am surprised by the push against me at the moment. When I got on the plane I suspected a few people would vote for me due to my assertiveness, and I'm very curious about what can be learned from that.
At the risk of being naive, I am going to <b>Unvote</b> since Sylandra has infact stopped pushing for Ushaara so hard and is appearing to be more open to more discussion before forcing a lynch train.
I really dislike that you keep arguing Sylandra was forcing a lynch train. Sylandra made the case for her vote, which moved the day forward. Sylandra did what town is supposed to do: make a case, cast a vote, engage in a discussion. Trying to condemn her for that just doesn't sit well with me.
She did not encourage a train, which is typically defined by a quick succession of votes with little reasoning behind them. Given that it's Tuesday, and this started last week, and I've read through multiple novels from people explaining their reasons, this is neither quick nor motivated without reason. Definitively not a train.
Also, I'm Celina. Assertive is my third middle name (behind drunk and bitchy). I'd rethink making a case based on the argument that people, including myself, are voting for you just for being assertive. I don't think it'll end well.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
To answer what would we find out from lynching you? I don't know! That's the way the mafia cookie crumbles, the town genuinely does not know sometimes what they will learn from a lynch. They vote, they discuss, they see what washed up in the end.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Did Ushaara mention if he had a power we wouldn't want to lose if we lynched him?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I should also mention that at this point, we should really just pick a direction and go with it. We are too far into the day, unless someone forgot to read a message from last night (*eye Shaddus*), we aren't going to spark any new discussion. We have gut feelings and conjecture at this point, without some major role claims (which we should avoid by ending the day soon) that's not going to change. Some people are just going to have to give and let's string up some unfortunate sod.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Did Ushaara mention if he had a power we wouldn't want to lose if we lynched him?
That's not how I read it, but I can kind of see how you would. It's more that he's holding out since he'll have nothing else to reveal otherwise - this seems to imply to me that any power he possesses might not have information gathering capacities.
I should have voted Shaddus, you give good arguments!
Haha. Additionally, part of me is voting you because if there's a Fain-led cult as I suspect based on what you've shared, you'd be a prime conversion target after that reveal. And I'd rather you died town before Malmydia's powers could be used for anti-town purposes.
I think the only lynch that might go better today would be if we had good reason to believe someone was Soulless. If you can provide that, you could change people's minds. But it's been a few days now and no one has come forward with that kind of information. So this is looking like the best lynch town will get today.
Side-bar: if you dislike the pushing that's being done on Xeii or Shaddus and want the day to end, you can vote for a "no lynch" and try to make that happen. Otherwise these vote trains are going to fight and claw for 11 votes. Highest anyone has reached so far is 7 (and that lynch train has since dropped to 3). Be sure you are voting so you have some say in this dayphase's events!
I said before I could get behind a Xeii lynch, but I'm going to sit on the Shaddus lynch train until more of you push for Xeii. If it's near the end of the dayphase, I'd prefer a lynch versus no lynch because in a game this large, knowledge is power. And we have room for error.
I said before I could get behind a Xeii lynch, but I'm going to sit on the Shaddus lynch train until more of you push for Xeii. If it's near the end of the dayphase, I'd prefer a lynch versus no lynch because in a game this large, knowledge is power. And we have room for error.
Hahaha what. Let's defend Shaddus on the off-chance he might be Triumvirate and might be part of a hypothetical Triumvirate-specific Mason group which might include Xeii?
That's flimsy at best. My vote stands for now.
No, let's stop putting pressure on Shaddus, and wait for a response from Xiell.
Please don't misrepresent what I said.
A 33% chance of being town isn't a defence, but I do think it's a reason to hold off a train until we hear from Xiell.
It just seemed such a far fetched example constructed entirely from whole cloth. I couldn't help but point that out, but if you feel I misrepresented you, I'm open to hearing an explanation.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: vote trains as big as this take forever to build. Don't panic, we aren't even halfway to a Shaddus lynch. We don't even have an executioner to fear at this point.
Unvoting just makes completing a train later on even harder, imo. Especially if it's one I'm still willing to stand behind, and expect to stand behind late-day.
@Fyler I have bolded the quotes that I was referring to.
Sylandra was quick to start with a no lynch on day one. I assume this was because she felt that it was the most likely train to happen that day. She continues to keep supporting trains or making arguments based on how easy or hard it will be to complete or divert a train, regardless of the arguments used for that particular train. This line of argument/persuasion to get more people to vote seems really dangerous to me.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I am defending Ushaara for the same reason I tried to stop the train on Shadus. I distrust quick trains.
I can't say I am surprised by the push against me at the moment. When I got on the plane I suspected a few people would vote for me due to my assertiveness, and I'm very curious about what can be learned from that.
At the risk of being naive, I am going to <b>Unvote</b> since Sylandra has infact stopped pushing for Ushaara so hard and is appearing to be more open to more discussion before forcing a lynch train.
I just want to point out the @Shaddus train was not as powerful a choo-choo as the @Xeii train at its height, which coincidentally predated the Shaddus lynch. And actually Weiwae, now that I've checked it out, who was on that train? Mr. I Hate Quick Lynches himself, @Weiwae. So much revisionist history going on! I'm wounded.
In all seriousness though, I appreciate the tentative vote of confidence. Though I have to say, I think I've been open to discussion all this time! What do you think my giant posts are?!
You'll also notice if you scroll back that I've discussed a lot of non-Ushaara or Sylandra related things, actually! When people ask questions I know the answer to ("Has Fyler posted yet?" "Did Lehki ever respond to this accusation?" "What do people want me to talk about exactly?" "What is WIFOM?"), I answer.
I'm a much more friendly aggressor than you've given me credit for, buddy! #JusticeForAggressivePlayers #JusticeForSylandra&Fyler
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Sylandra was quick to start with a no lynch on day one. I assume this was because she felt that it was the most likely train to happen that day. She continues to keep supporting trains or making arguments based on how easy or hard it will be to complete or divert a train, regardless of the arguments used for that particular train. This line of argument/persuasion to get more people to vote seems really dangerous to me.
I'm not the only person in this thread who has expressed these opinions re: voting always being useful for town. Even if you lynch me, there are other people who play this way. So unless you want to lynch all of us, I don't know what to tell you.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I still see a great difference between supporting the vote of someone because their activity is suspicious and suggesting that someone should be voted for because it's hard to build up support, and lynching a mostly suspected townie is better than nothing.
However, I now can see why some would prefer to lynch someone they mostly suspect is town, though it personally rubs me the wrong way.
@Ushaara I suspect that if you reveal your power and it is a pro-town power and fits the character, then people won't suspect you as much.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I still see a great difference between supporting the vote of someone because their activity is suspicious and suggesting that someone should be voted for because it's hard to build up support, and lynching a mostly suspected townie is better than nothing.
Well then perhaps you're conflating two different things I'm saying.
1) I'm acknowledging in big games it is hard to build lynch trains, and people are famously bad at voting on Day 1 & 2 as a result of that. I know this from being in big games and running big-ish games. That's a separate issue, and more stems from the fact I think it means town can lose their opportunity for a lynch, which is objectively Bad News.
2) I voted Shaddus because I found him suspicious, and I also thought he was playing poorly. It was a reaction to things he did that dayphase; I outlined that extensively. I had a position, I explained it, and then I acted based on that. This is how voting should ideally work, in my view.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I will just say this back and forth is distracting and going to go on forever.
I think it's important to look at players through the appropriate lens. The bolded quotes from Sylandra, to me, read as someone who has played/ran a lot of mafia and is observing just some basic townie realities such as "it's been a few days and no one has come forward with that kind of (soulless) information," which is basically the argument I've made, and that big games with split opinions take a really long time to come to a majority consensus (see: right now).
Days dragging on forever don't spontaneously bring about new information. Drawn out days do tend to make people blurt out unnecessary information, such as role and power claims. For these two reasons, I generally also push for a lynch if there's a decent reason and motivation.
Also, why are you prompting Ushaara to reveal a power? He's not even close to a lynch yet, he needs 10 and he's at 4. GIRL. SKETCHY. LIKE A ETCH-A-SKETCH.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
I do not know if Xeii is town, or soulless, or other. I do not believe her assumption that the game has traitors is a good enough reason to suspect her. I myself assumed that our foes were traitors, with soulless in an sk or other third party role. If such a thing is enough to condemn another, we are in a sad state of affairs.
@Othero has accused me of deflecting. This was unintentional, feel free to direct a question towards me again.
Sadly I cannot find an appropriate police car siren gif. But if there was one, it would be here.
This was back on page 4, when Shaddus had yet to read his role. Weiwae and Falaeron were the only two at the time to hit agree on my post. We knew that Shaddus's answer was incorrect right then and there.
Before I wrote my post, same page, Weiwae asked Shaddus...
Meaning he had a feeling that Shaddus had derped on his role condition, but how could Weiwae know that unless Weiwae also had the same win condition as town?
Which is why I won't be going on any Weiwae or Shaddus trains unless they do something very out there. To me, they're cleared as Town.
Comments
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
And @Dylara, @Fyler voted for Weiwae and said they don't support an Ushaara lynch:
Feel free to raise an eyebrow at me though. That's pretty well-warranted whether or not we're playing mafia!
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Like I said, I disagree with His logic, but He's clearly not new to mafia in general and would know aging against an established narrative puts the spotlight on Him instead. I just think He's not likely to fall for that trap.
I guess the main reason I have this impression is that his comments about the investigator and "no-lynches" both seemed misinformed to me, and I understood that as being new to the conventions of mafia.
Re: Ushaara: I completely buy that he's Malmydia. No Soulless would lie about being a Traitor in this game, and no town would have a reason to lie. I also believe that he is telling the truth in saying that he's on our side, but there's certainly a possibility of him lying about it. As such, I won't argue against lynching him, but at this point I'll not join in myself. I believe it would be more beneficial to lynch him rather than lynch no one though, so if the day drags on too long, that might change.
Re: Sylandra: She seems to be very aggressive about the votes, both during day one and this day. It almost seems as if she wants the days to end early, which I personally don't think directly benefits town. Sure, we have powers to use during the night as well, but it's during the days we can discuss and argue and try to piece things together, and I don't think it's a bad idea to have days last longer rather than shorter.
Re: Weiwae: The biggest problem I have with him is that he kept misrepresenting Sylandras arguments, and was, at least in my view, exceedingly vocal in Ushaara's defense. No, we cannot simply wait until we are handed information on a golden platter. Yes, we have to doubt what investigators say (there's scum that investigate as town, there's town that investigate as scum, there's both naive and paranoid investigators, there are scum investigators, etc). Yes, the only 100% reliable information is through a flip. Should we just discard everything an investigator says? Of course not. We simply shouldn't wait until they say something, or we'll never get anything done. Do I believe that Weiwae protects Ushaara because they're in the same scum faction? Of course not. If Weiwae is scum, then Ushaara is almost definitely town; going this far in defending another scum is just asking to be lynched right afterwards. What it might be, however, is Weiwae laying down an argument for why he's town ("Well, if I were scum, then obviously I would've just voted Ushaara off; instead I argued against lynching a fellow town").
I think that's about it. For now, for the reasons mentioned above, I will
Vote: Sylandra
Vote: Weiwae
Sylandra is getting a lot of flak for being aggressive, when the only reason she posted so much to defend her point of view in the first place was due to Weiwae's frequent accusations that she was making her vote for the wrong reasons. She's an aggressive player who took the time to support her views and try to explain where she was coming from when she felt her argument was being misrepresented by someone else. I don't understand how that makes her a good target to lynch, especially during a day where people have been saying that folks who vote quietly and join trains are more suspicious than people who back up their positions.
It's funny how we've basically been saying the same things, but she's got the target painted on her, and I for the most part do not. If voting for Ushaara or wanting the game to move forward was such a terrible thing, you would think I would be receiving just as much fire. So I'm extremely suspicious that this train has gotten rolling with a focus on condemning specifically her when she's hardly the only one to say exactly the things she has been saying. Is it really about the content of her posts, or is she simply the easiest target because she was the first on this side of the argument to have a vote cast against her?
But I unvoted to let the day's discussion continue. That's not "pushing to end the day." That's literally slowing the day down. I didn't even vote Weiwae.
I also had the chance to end the dayphase yesterday and deliberately held back and let Vivet post. She's the one who ended yesterday, not me. I also didn't choose the faster lynch train. I was on the slower one, which I said several times I expected to fail to meet the votes needed to end the day.
I like lynches. I'm not as impatient as I'm being portrayed, though.
Ushaara - Yomoigu, Portius, Luce, Dylara (4)
Sylandra - Ushaara, Weiwae, Ssaliss (3)
Lehki - Selenity (1)
Weiwae - Fyler, Breandryn, Phoebus (3)
It takes 10 to lynch!
One of the things I find most frustrating in mafia games is that you know there are more than one mafia member, but you can't go pointing fingers at 2 or 3 people at once without looking crazy and paranoid. (Granted, the game encourages paranoia). So the fact that you are saying the same thing as Sylandra , but nobody is pointing fingers as you isn't really all that surprising. On the other hand, quite a few people are suggesting that your main arguments to lynch Ushaara are more valid than I gave them credit for. I'm still not a fan of punishing people who volunteer juicy information, but I can see the logic of the counter arguments now.
I am defending Ushaara for the same reason I tried to stop the train on Shadus. I distrust quick trains.
I can't say I am surprised by the push against me at the moment. When I got on the plane I suspected a few people would vote for me due to my assertiveness, and I'm very curious about what can be learned from that.
At the risk of being naive, I am going to <b>Unvote</b> since Sylandra has infact stopped pushing for Ushaara so hard and is appearing to be more open to more discussion before forcing a lynch train.
She did not encourage a train, which is typically defined by a quick succession of votes with little reasoning behind them. Given that it's Tuesday, and this started last week, and I've read through multiple novels from people explaining their reasons, this is neither quick nor motivated without reason. Definitively not a train.
Also, I'm Celina. Assertive is my third middle name (behind drunk and bitchy). I'd rethink making a case based on the argument that people, including myself, are voting for you just for being assertive. I don't think it'll end well.
Sylandra was quick to start with a no lynch on day one. I assume this was because she felt that it was the most likely train to happen that day. She continues to keep supporting trains or making arguments based on how easy or hard it will be to complete or divert a train, regardless of the arguments used for that particular train. This line of argument/persuasion to get more people to vote seems really dangerous to me.
In all seriousness though, I appreciate the tentative vote of confidence. Though I have to say, I think I've been open to discussion all this time! What do you think my giant posts are?!
You'll also notice if you scroll back that I've discussed a lot of non-Ushaara or Sylandra related things, actually! When people ask questions I know the answer to ("Has Fyler posted yet?" "Did Lehki ever respond to this accusation?" "What do people want me to talk about exactly?" "What is WIFOM?"), I answer.
I'm a much more friendly aggressor than you've given me credit for, buddy! #JusticeForAggressivePlayers #JusticeForSylandra&Fyler
However, I now can see why some would prefer to lynch someone they mostly suspect is town, though it personally rubs me the wrong way.
@Ushaara I suspect that if you reveal your power and it is a pro-town power and fits the character, then people won't suspect you as much.
1) I'm acknowledging in big games it is hard to build lynch trains, and people are famously bad at voting on Day 1 & 2 as a result of that. I know this from being in big games and running big-ish games. That's a separate issue, and more stems from the fact I think it means town can lose their opportunity for a lynch, which is objectively Bad News.
2) I voted Shaddus because I found him suspicious, and I also thought he was playing poorly. It was a reaction to things he did that dayphase; I outlined that extensively. I had a position, I explained it, and then I acted based on that. This is how voting should ideally work, in my view.
I think it's important to look at players through the appropriate lens. The bolded quotes from Sylandra, to me, read as someone who has played/ran a lot of mafia and is observing just some basic townie realities such as "it's been a few days and no one has come forward with that kind of (soulless) information," which is basically the argument I've made, and that big games with split opinions take a really long time to come to a majority consensus (see: right now).
Days dragging on forever don't spontaneously bring about new information. Drawn out days do tend to make people blurt out unnecessary information, such as role and power claims. For these two reasons, I generally also push for a lynch if there's a decent reason and motivation.
Also, why are you prompting Ushaara to reveal a power? He's not even close to a lynch yet, he needs 10 and he's at 4. GIRL. SKETCHY. LIKE A ETCH-A-SKETCH.
This was back on page 4, when Shaddus had yet to read his role. Weiwae and Falaeron were the only two at the time to hit agree on my post. We knew that Shaddus's answer was incorrect right then and there.
Before I wrote my post, same page, Weiwae asked Shaddus...
Meaning he had a feeling that Shaddus had derped on his role condition, but how could Weiwae know that unless Weiwae also had the same win condition as town?
Which is why I won't be going on any Weiwae or Shaddus trains unless they do something very out there. To me, they're cleared as Town.