Estarra and Orael Meeting 21/10/28

AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
edited October 2018 in Q&A
After the Battlechess tournament on Sunday, Estarra and Orael held an OOC meeting with any who were interested to ask questions.

From Orael via Discord:
There was a lot going on there, so if anyone has other questions, feel free to ask here(discord) or on forums, I'll answer them when I can
And thanks to everyone that was able to make it!

===================================================================================
Estarra's voice shatters the cosmic equilibrium, "In five minutes, we will meet in the Aetherplex
for a meeting with the latest Anomaly for those who are interetsed in attending."

Estarra's voice shatters the cosmic equilibrium, "We will change the meeting to the forum in the
World Library."

Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist shouts, "I am there at present, if you wish to
come to me."

An echoing, airy marble forum.

You see the following people here:
Rolsand, Deichtine, Xenthos, Rancoura, Jarel, Enadonella, Alaksanteri, Lyora, Marcella, Anita.

A swirling pool of energy forms in the air, out of which steps Estarra, the Eternal.
Mianzi, the little red panda squeals at the sight of Estarra, suddenly standing up and waving her
paws in the air before tumbling backwards onto her rear.

----[ OOC ANNOUNCEMENT ]----------------------------( 2018/10/21 22:39:32 )----
  The chat with Estarra and Orael will be happening momentarily at the forum
  in the World Library - don't miss out on a chance to ask Them questions
  about the game!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You see the following people here:
Rolsand, Xenthos, Rancoura, Enadonella, Steingrim, Marcella, Alaksanteri, Deichtine, Jarel, Orael,
Ushaara, Estarra, Kistan, Tiandor, Gristnach, Lyora, Jarul, Anita.

A fog rises up from the ground, cloaking everyone's actions.

look Orael
He is a radiant immortal.
He is wearing:
a plain grey tunic
plain grey trousers.

Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "So this is the place to ask questions."

Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "This is pretty exciting."

Scarbearer Tiandor says, "Let me ask the dumb ones."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok lets try not to have unnecessary spam."

Estarra the Eternal says, "This is an OOC meeting."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Basically, we want to open up to let you guys ask questions."

Scarbearer Tiandor says, "Okay what's an anomaly? Dumb question number one."

A force suddenly grips you, preventing you from emoting.

Estarra the Eternal says, "I'm gonna cut down emotes."

With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "I have one."

With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "After him."

Estarra the Eternal says, "Orael, is there anything you want to open up with or just jump to
questions."

Orael the Anomaly says, "I'll just answer Tiandor's question real quick and jump into something."

Estarra the Eternal says, "An Anomaly is a coder."

Estarra nods Her head at Orael.

Scarbearer Tiandor says, "Oh okay!"

Orael the Anomaly says, "An Anomaly is someone who focuses more on the mechanics and background
within Lusternia, there isn't an RP role they are involved in."

Orael the Anomaly says, "So no need to genuflect or the like."

Orael the Anomaly says, "Fistbumps will be a-ok."

Estarra's mouth turns up as Her face breaks into a smile.

Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "We can't though."

Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist smiles and says, "Perhaps later."

Orael the Anomaly says, "Anyway, I'm excited to jump into this role here and help push through some
long-awaited reports and changes."

Orael the Anomaly says, "I posted on forums with some of my immediate goals, primarily a new way for
the playerbase as a whole to help implement needed changes, and a special report to rework some of
the skillsets within Hallifax."

Orael the Anomaly says, "So that's what I'll be focused on first."

Orael the Anomaly says, "And with that, feel free to ask away!"

Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "When will this new report system be implemented?"

Wyldewald Elarin Myeras-Silvermoon says, "I don't really check the forums so I haven't read the post
, but what about the overhaul for druidry and woodchems that has been going on?"

Orael the Anomaly says, "The new reporting system will hopefully be within the next month or two. I
don't want to give an exact date because one of my goals is to be really transparent and honest with
what's being worked on."

Orael the Anomaly says, "There is a mage rework which will be the first thing I get to after the
reporting system and the Hallifax skills."

Estarra the Eternal says, "One of our issues was starting a new special report or project before
completing the first one. I think it's a good idea for Orael to focus on one thing at a time."

You say, "This question isn't my own, but another player is wondering if the critical hits system
will be reviewed in the future, and especially the artifacts relating to them - as they are not
worth the current price they cost."

Facet Ushaara says, "I've just had a quick scan of the Aeonics revamp. Will TimeEchoes be a smart
afflicter?"

Orael the Anomaly says, "Just to preface stuff, I'm going to try to answer things in order, so if I
miss a question, let me know and I'll get back around to it."

Orael the Anomaly says, "As far as critical hits - there isn't immediate plans to look at it. What
something is worth is pretty subjective and I think that's shown by the current auction bid on the
level 4 crit rune. A lot of players probably think that's too high, but at least some people think
it's worth that much."

Orael the Anomaly says, "I do know that someone already plans on submitting a report when the new
system is in, so it could end up being reworked."

Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I know I wouldn't bid that much on it."

Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "As-is."

Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Bid? We talkin auctions?"

You say to Malarious, "I asked about critical hits being reviewed and the artifacts for them."

Orael the Anomaly says, "For time-echoes, it's not currently planned as being smart-afflicting."

Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Oh, okay."

With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "When is the warrior class going to be
reworked to be more newbie-friendly and more useful in combat scenarios, if ever?"

With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "Am curious."

Orael the Anomaly says, "We just had a minor warrior project that was put in not too long ago."

Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Yes, but as we discussed, the minor
project didn't really fix the issues."

With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "Minor being the word..."

Orael the Anomaly says, "So it's unlikely we'll be looking at anything major anytime soon."

With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "Lovely."

Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to Orael, "Is the official goal of combat aimed at
groups, or solo?"

Orael the Anomaly says, "Once we're caught up on a lot of things, we can potentially see if we can
do something."

Orael the Anomaly says, "Both."

Orael the Anomaly says, "Both group and solo combat is important."

Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "That's what I wanted to hear,
thank you. I understand the projects thing, just going "it's fine as-is" is what gets me to keep
bringing it up."



«1

Comments

  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "So every report should assume balance must be
    maintainted in groups?"

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "And relatedly, if things break this standard, we
    should be fixing that?"

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian looks thoughtful and says, "I smell hidden context."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "No hidden context, but envoys seemed to get mixed
    messages a lot."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "If envoy reports go "wider", we have to deal with
    more people feeling how things should work, instead of direction."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I'm not quite sure what you mean, that's been the case for long time that
    both solo and group combat should be considered."

    Facet Ushaara says, "Another aeonics one, is my understanding of singularity right in that you can
    target anyone in same area from a different room? Or what are its limitations?"

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to Orael, "Do You have a central plan for what order
    to tackle combat in? A master plan? Or a baseline to establish par in combat?"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "It would be helpful for there to be some general
    guidelines to follow. I'm not sure that 'should be considered' is meaningful enough to be that
    helpful."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "A big issue is the fact that
    a lot of old quests are locked behind ancient mobprog no one knows how to fix anymore, so the quests
    just lay fallow despite being bugged- and a lot of them people just assume that they must be doing
    it wrong, even though it is, in fact, bugged. Ianir and I tried to go through the undervault epic
    quest on the illithoid side and he had no idea why, despite every bag being poisoned, the hives
    would not progress the quest on a part of it. That bug has laid dormant for eons, despite it being
    part of, you know, an *epic quest*. There are all kinds of others that are less important. A big
    part of why I have not bothered doing anything in the world for the past few months is because its
    incredibly demoralizing to try to do something and realise 'everything I want to do that I haven't
    already done is literally busted, low priority, and won't get fixed for IRL years.' I'm assuming as
    a combat anomaly, that that will continue being the case?"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Yes!"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Alright, hold up on sec while I catch up."

    Someone powerful says, "One of us volunteer admin can reply to part of that."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Undervault is not really taht old mobprog wise."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I will say there's been
    progress on that, like with Groundhog."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "In the changelogs."

    Someone powerful says, "We are fixing mobprog bugs as we can, but as you noted, there are many of
    them. As you have seen in the changelogs, we have already fixed a number."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "As far as Aeonics report - lets hold off on specific abilities there
    because as it's developed we can test it and adjust as needed."

    Someone powerful says, "This is ongoing, along with all of our other duties as volunteers."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Might I suggest a tweak to quests so that we can look
    up if a quest is broken?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Singularity will be doable on anyone, but will be dependent on timewarp so
    there will be cases where it should work better."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That would save a lot of
    wasted time and frustration if their states were obvious."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But again, that's subject to change."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Might I suggest a tweak to quests so that we can look
    up if a quest is broken? I mean the QUEST command if I wasn't clear."

    Facet Ushaara says, "Understood."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Most of the broken quests
    aren't in the quests system and that's parto f why they're broken."

    Someone powerful says, "Again, this is something we are already actively working on."

    Someone powerful says, "The Anomaly is a coder, and thus will mainly be working on other things."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't think it would be practical to do that, Steingrim."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Singularity will be an area
    wide summon attempt with no direct counter?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "If you ever get a chance to look at bug
    22832 that would be great, that's one that locks down a set of specific conflict between the
    villages. It may just be that there's something not quite clear and it just needs to be clarified
    like what was done with groundhog. In fact, that's probably what the issue is, just not remembering
    what the heck to do."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Gaudi's epic has been broken for a good four years if
    not since the beginning. Frustrating how much power it costs the city."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "A lot of my other quest-bugs did get
    cleared up recently in that big changelog though."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I really liked that."

    Someone powerful says, "To give you some stats: less than a month ago, we had three times as many
    reported mobprog bugs as we do now - we presently have 38, and previously had well over 100. We're
    working through the rest of them, but many - as you're well aware - are not easy fixes."

    You say, "Wasn't your quest recently fixed? Due to the thing that happened with Halli's spheres
    being dropped."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I think it would be great to have a list of broken quests so
    people aren't wasting their time and becomming jaded with an otherwise enjoyable aspect of the ga,e.
    "

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "A record of which quests are
    not doable sounds great yea."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to you, "Nope."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Kind of like how people
    change HELP GODS to the inactive ones on the right side. Or is that just player rumor Ive always
    heard repeated."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Retired ones get moved over to the right
    hand side, that's not a rumour."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I don't know if it's worthwhile to maintain a list."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Marcella, "We can maybe try keeping a list on the
    forums I guess?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I don't think that would be practical. Frankly no such list exists and
    for those who self-report, there's simply no way for us to tell if its a real bug or something that
    actually does work that they haven't figured out."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I'd probably ask volunteers to focus on fixing things first."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "To the players it seems to be."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Perhaps we could ask the playerbase."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The desire for a list is
    borne of the idea 'it'll never get fixed anyway' so if you really are working hard on them as a
    priority, then my desire is retracted since it'd have to change every other month."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Rather than being told we don't want something."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "I know people who are really
    into questing-- one of them has run into quest after quest with issues and was really close to
    giving up entirely."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Because they kept picking busted quests."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "Maybe a QUEST STATUS "whatever" that tells if the quest has been
    done recently, though not by whom, and how long ago. That way if we check on a quest and it hasn't
    been done in years, we know something's up."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Xenthos, "Fucking exactly."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Then you went through and fixed them."

    You say, "Well, for instance the Taerin passages - they're currently broken and I didn't realise
    until after asking on forums."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "If that's something one of wants to tackle, feel free. I'm sure that's
    something we would support."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "So that revitalized it before the give-up
    happened."

    With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "A broken quest breaks immersion...
    immersion is supposed to be top priority for an RPG, is it not?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "No one is arguing that it's important to fix quests."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Sure."

    With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "So making a list would steer people AWAY
    from that broken immersion."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But as has been noted, our volunteers have been busting their tails and
    working on them."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Estarra, "The point is more "Hey, here's
    a list of quests not to waste hours on because they need some attention"."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Anyway, Orael will probably rarely be fixing quests."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Saves people frustration and finding out
    -after- the fact."

    Someone powerful says, "Part of what Estarra is saying is, sometimes a player thinks a quest is
    broken when it is not. There is no way we can know whether or not that is the case without looking
    into fixing the bug."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "So like I said...I think it would be great to have a list of
    broken quests so people aren't wasting their time and becomming jaded with an otherwise enjoyable
    aspect of the ga,e."

    Someone powerful says, "So any such list would only be a guess."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Well you can have a list of
    confirmed broken ones."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think we're on the same page here."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The thing is."

    With a deep, rolling accent, Bonesmith Jarel Th'ruk says, "The ones that are KNOWN to be broken ones
    the- yeah what she said."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "They're saying that they are
    actively working on the confirmed broken ones."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So I'm not sure what more we can say."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "And they dont know if one's
    broken until they are working on it."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Confirmed by who? It needs to be confirmed by an admin."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Yes."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "And if they are wroking on it
    , then it gets fixed."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "So why make the list."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Confirmed list, suspected list
    and working list."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Thats what theyre saying."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I really do not mean this in a mean way, but that's the
    system. Often the admin appear to be guessing it isn't broken."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Suspected list would probably be better."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Once the admin confirm a quest
    is broken, they know its broken, they are working on it."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "And while they are working on
    it they can tag the quest with a little oops out of order sign."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Yeah, that feels like it
    happens a lot too Steingrim."

    Someone powerful says, "We would encourage you to bug what you've found. You'll be able to see if we
    combine your bug with another - which will give you a good indication that you're not the only
    person who's found the problem. It will also help us find it and fix it, because we'll likely have
    more information from the additional reports."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Anyway, we have fantastic volunteers that have been working on them."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Its an out of order sign while
    your working on it. Would that not be benefical to the players?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "And will continue to do so."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Well I've certain been told a quest is broken and when I look it isn't."

    You say, "OK. Idea. We make a forum post of a list of POSSIBLE BROKEN quests and say that you have
    bugged said quest, just to give a heads up. It might be another player comes along and manages to
    figure it out, and you realise it's not broken. But at least people will be aware of an odd quest?"

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to Orael, "Do you have a planned baseline for combat
    that we should balance other classes to roughly meet? If we had a class that was considered around
    the right level of balance, we could focus things to be comparable. This could help prevent concerns
    of things being too fast or strong."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "We appreciate people are working on them. But we also
    understand that takes more time than the hour or so someone is spending on trying that quest. So
    having a "this be broke" list isn't going to hurt. Once it is fixed then you can take it off the
    list."

    Orael the Anomaly says to Enadonella, "Yeah, we agree."

    Someone powerful says, "And if we resolve your bug as not broken, then it's not broken. In any case,
    thank you for bringing up the idea of the list. It's something we can think about, and as you said,
    you can keep your own list if you want. I feel like we're not just takling in circles about the
    quests, a bit here."
     
    Estarra the Eternal says, "Sure I'm fine withe a forum list of suspected broken quests."

    You say, "Ok! I can do that - if anyone here is concerned and has open bugs / thoughts on quests
    suspected to be broke, message me."
     
    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says to Orael, "So your open to an
    out of order tag for the known and confirmed broken quests?"


  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Orael the Anomaly says to Malarious, "What if I said warriors was the right level of balance?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I kid, I kid."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Then I'd say we have a lot of slowing down to do."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Then we better get nerfing
    everything."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "A lot."

    Xenthos stares imperiously at Orael, only to shrink back in fear before His might.

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think that's a hard thing to nail down."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Deichtine, "It seems like a "suspected
    out of order" tag."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Because you're going to have situations where some classes are strong
    against some but weak against others."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "For instance, we had super succumb for awhile that
    was majorly bursty. Warriors are slow but steady. Bards can auric very fast, but if you move the
    bard, its pointless."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Deichtine, "Other people can give input
    and advice to move past the issue if there isn't a problem."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "That's it exactly, what kind of base can you give?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "When we have such variety."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many asks Malarious, "Sorry, did they actually fix succumb?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So it's really a case by case basis."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says to Malarious, "Because it feels the same."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to Orael, "For instance, if you say that current
    Nihilists with demonmarks are the ideal, then we balance everyone to assume a kill time of roughly
    that, or an interval of that."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Well even killtimes are off."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Its two questions."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "How fast do you want combat
    to be, and how sticky do you want combat to be."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Like a bard can kill you in 8s."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But it's easy to stop."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "8s or never, depending on if you move, yea."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Sticky is 'how easy is it to
    escape and reset to neutral.'"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So should everyone be able to kill you in 9s."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Or move them. Igasho invalidates bards."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Or 8s."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But be easy to stop?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "It's a scale. The stickier
    the offence, the longer you want it to take to kill."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Or should we have something like warriors that will eventually build but
    take a few minutes?"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "In 8 seconds with the SAME level of setup...would eb okay."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "And then add in defenses."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The problem with warriors."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "They are a good example, because we could tune the
    timers based on that. But we have to know where things stand."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "But in 8 seconds with two keystrokes. Hell no."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Is that they are neither
    sticky OR fast."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Pureblade and BM got a big
    buff to stickiness."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "With the impeding stance and
    stuff."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "But that is mostly great in
    groups, and they cant possibly keep that up for long enough to kill on their own."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So really, it's all going to be about the individual class and what they
    can do."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "How easy it is to stop vs the effort it takes."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Deathweapon is not considerably superior to
    chaosaura for instance, and knowing which one is the right side to aim for would help in general
    warrior designs too!"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The problem with abrds."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Is that they are both sticky
    AND fast, thanks to p5th."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Is now, rather."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I hope literally anyone else
    in this room knows what I'm talking about."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So what I want to refrain from is making a statement that 'such and such is
    the perfect balanced class and everyone should aim to be like them'"

    Orael the Anomaly says to Marcella, "I understand what you're saying."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Fair point, so what is the ideal time from 1v1
    starting to someone dying?"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "P5 isn't even worth it."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But variety is what makes things fun and interesting."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I never use it in solo fights."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Is however long a warrior takes, right, or should
    we be speeding up warriors a little to lower it?"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "You're going to have a lot of dissatisfaction if for no
    other reason based on expectorations. We regularly have people bitching they can't compete when
    perhaps the majority of group events can often be decided by adding a couple of people. There's this
    myth that things need to be equal always that I think would be a beneficial expectation to address."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I really don't get this "ideal time" thing as being terribly meaningful."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "I don't like comparing
    warriors to any class. Warriors have a 100% certain instant kill(eventuall) and that means they suck
    in almost ever other aspect."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "There is a big feeling that people can't compete."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Something we want to eliminate."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Estarra, the more that hindering is added then the more
    important time to kill becomes."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to Estarra, "A warrior will never win a fight
    against any classes whose kill time is lower if they have no counter, because the warrior is too
    slow. A bards counter is easy."

    Tambador Zayah says, "The theory that every class should be able to stand toe to toe with every
    other class 1v1 is a bad balance point."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "If you want warriors to still
    be attrition you need to make them be able to force people into fighting them instead of escaping by
    making escape nigh-impossible. That's just my opinion. If you want bards to be that fast, make it
    very easy to leave. The issue everyone has is when they are both fast and sticky, like permaprone
    nekotai that give you lethal bleed in under a minute while making it physically impossible for you
    to fight back on any kind of equal terms."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to Estarra, "Having a timer at least gives us a
    metric to run from, and helps nonsubjectively assess if someone is too strong."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Thats all I have to say about
    my balance philosophy."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "A big part of the can't
    compete issue is artifacts and buy in value. Do you have an idea for that?"

    Orael the Anomaly says to Tambador, "I agree, I think it's perfectly fine to have classes be strong
    against some and weak against others."

  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Orael the Anomaly says, "I'm also ok with having strong skills that are hard to counter as long as
    they have opportunity costs."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Deichtine, "Isn't that as best a 1v1 concern?"

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "I'd say the other way
    Steingrim."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Artifacts are more important
    in groups than solo."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think we can probably all agree that some artifacts are probably too
    strong, right?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Would you like us to remove some artifacts or wonder items?"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I'd really like to see a list of these game breaking
    artifacts then."

    Estarra the Eternal exclaims, "Me too!"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Me three."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Its overall. Like the
    difference between an individual with no artifacts and the difference between an individual with the
    +5 health rune is massive for group fights."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "Maybe a price check on some would help. Lowering some prices
    across the board, on both combat and commonly used artifacts like cube/keg runes?"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "We aren't opposed to making lists."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "But I've heard there's some artifacts that are "too good" and I'm willing
    to look at it."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "And Estarra that really bugs me that people don't have
    to make cases and give examples and demonstrations."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Well I have almost all the artifacts and
    I'm not killing everyone left and right."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I don't agree that harder means broken."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many sticks out her tongue and says to Xenthos, "You could be if you put
    some effort in."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "The health rune is practically
    required to not get squished super quick in group fights and its a pretty hefty buy in for someone
    just trying to learn the game."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to Xenthos, "But you're you, you clearly are a
    noncom, you're just the historian, eh?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "It's also something you can work up to."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Aren't you a friggin warrior,
    Xenthos."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I am!"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "And the health rune isn't needed anymore due to batons
    ."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "The work up time is quite a
    lengthy process is the issue."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "There you have it then."

    You say, "Mana rune against Shadowdancers."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "You were back when warriors
    were all artied the hell out, just like all the other artied-the-hell-out warriors, but now warriors
    all just kind of do group support and that sit."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I don't think removing or nerfing artifacts is the problem. It
    is teh cost."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Oh, the cost! The cost is I think one of
    the biggest things to discuss."

    Someone powerful says, "Enadonella, so what you're saying is it costs to much to get all the
    artifacts that would help in combat?"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "A certain demographic or two of players just can not or will
    not pay for the level of artifacts needed to join in."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "You can give a ton of mana, health, and ego to your
    entire group though batons now."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Estarra, "I mentioned this, but there
    aren't a lot of "low-cost" options for things."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Most games have like $5/$10 things you
    can buy."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Enadonella is sort of right
    with that yes. The cost for entry level group combat here is pretty high yes."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Just little bits, but doing that here
    gets you nothing."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "What's the cost of the lvl 1 health rune?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Like 125 credits?"

    Tambador Zayah says, "Micro transactions are the world of gaming these days."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Gods i've silenced what i could!"

    "Oops!" Estarra exclaims with a bashful expression.

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Combine that with the
    discontinuation of artisanals and bardics, one of the only ways for low-income people to get credits,
    and you have a lot of people very downhearted about cost."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "125 250 and 500 credits for
    level 1-3."

    Estarra the Eternal exclaims, "We're talking about silencing pets, btw, not players!"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "100 credits is $40."

    You whisper to Estarra, "Suuuure."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I wouldn't be surprised if the health rune here is the
    cheapest in any of the games. It certainly seems a lot cheaper than achaea was. That said, lvl ones
    probably should be cheap to get people into the mindset of dropping small bits on cash on the game."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Level 1 is only +1 health
    though. But I can see where you are going. If you buffed the cheaper artifacts to make the entry
    level of combat cheaper to get into."

    Estarra's mouth turns up as Her face breaks into a smile.

    Tambador Zayah says, "No wonder I couldn't speak for 5 minutes."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Just murder all the poteen pets."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I doubt anyone would object."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many smiles impishly and says, "Declare me."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "There just aren't low-cost entry-level
    things to get into Lusternia. Even an Elite Package is $25 a month vs the 10/15 sub for other games.
    "

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Other IRE games?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Don't get me wrong, I like the elite."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "More microtransactions?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Estarra, "Other games, period. Graphic
    games, their sub costs are usually $10/$15 per month."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "Being able to buy more of the 1k lesson packs would help people
    too. Those are really a boon."

    Exemplar Allixea, Knife in the Dark says, "Wait don't people hate micro transactions?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "IRE is renowned as pay2win in
    online communities. And yeah, you look at a FFXIV-."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I want to say a level 3 strength rune was 2-4k in
    achaea when I left."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Allixea, "What we have is
    MEGA transactions."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Allixea, "Macro."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "It might help to have the rune renting system here?"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "We are saying we want to give you money. We just don't want to
    spend $200 a week...just like $10 here and there. Versus you getting $0."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Allixea, "People hate being nagged for
    ninety-nine cents to get past a block of something. But when a l1 health rune is north of $40, then
    you have a different problem on your hands."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Allixea, "We're not asking for nag
    -spending, just more entry-level stuff."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "Nobody wants to pay to be temporarily better at combat. You have
    to keep renting, and renting, and finally you've paid more than the rune is worth."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "That lets people feel like they can get a
    foot in the door without emptying the bank account."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Well maybe once you've rented
    for the price of the thing you just get the thing."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That lets you 'try the arti."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think that's something that can be looked at, but it's probably not
    something Estarra or myself would be able to pull the trigger on."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Before decidingi f oyu want
    to pay full price."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "I think Steingrim refers to an
    ingame rental process based on bashing or pvp."

    Allixea sniffs the air while fluttering a cute little rabbit nose.

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Not on an actual $$ rental."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many asks, "Like doubloons in Imp?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "Absolutely an IRE thing, but it
    really needs to be brought up and discussed."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "That's something to think about. If anyone would like to privately email
    me a list of 'needed' or 'must have' artifacts, I really will look at it."

    Orael nods His head emphatically.

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Heres another thing."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist smiles and says to Orael, "We want new people to
    feel like they can get involved."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Yeah, we do too."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I'd love to see old players come back!"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Credit prices for gold get
    driven up artificially by speculative buyers. Why not make creditmarket bound credits (and give the
    lesson bonus for buying them off cmarket.)"

    Someone powerful says, "Definitely, and thank you for the new people here in this conversation."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I have met some. And they just don't want to fork out the $$."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Because people with bajillion
    of gold will always buy every credit under a certain price, just to resell them at a higher price."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Creditmarket being bound credits would be
    fine."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "This makes it so noobs cant
    bash for credits."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "On another tangent, why do people think they need specific
    artifacts to deal with a specific guild? Wouldn't it be easier to balance the guild instead of
    requiring a purchase?"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "That lore knowledge and what not can't be bought and
    contributes to the game so much."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Because the credits will be
    prohibitively expensive."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many asks Sudian, "You mean class?"

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "Right, class."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "BTW, I keep seeing comments about wonder items, but no one here has said,
    I think so-and-so wonder item or artifact is OP or unbalancing. Not sure what I should make of that.
    "

    Someone powerful says, "Thank you for coming, Tiandor."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I don't really know about all the wonderitems to say much on
    them. I think some of them aren't worth what you want for them though."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Like pipe."

    Exemplar Allixea, Knife in the Dark says, "I think the wonderwand is a little OP if you make a
    script to change damage type to weaknesses."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Wonder items tend to be minor
    advantages compared to the core artifacts."

    Scarbearer Tiandor says, "Oh yeah you can read my tells. Whoopsie!"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Estarra, "Most of the people who
    complain about them say things like "It's not any one specific thing, it's them taken as a whole,"
    but then how do you even work with that?"

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "That is vague."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Yea its just lots of little
    tiny advantages all add up."

    Scarbearer Tiandor says, "Leaving now!"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist looks skeptical and says, "And I don't like
    "let's nerf the wonderitems just because" thing."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "But thats not just wonder
    items that coal and pep artifacts as well."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Like having a trueheal for an
    ally once a month is super strong."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Wonderwings level 1
    completely invalidates pogo stick by being the same thing for the same price. Peppermint hat dodge
    is dumb as hell for being so strong and limited."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "But its only once a month."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Pogo is also ludicrously
    necessary in group combat."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Let me go down the wonder
    items."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "And point out the dumb stuff
    ."

    Tambador Zayah says, "The problem is toss it in with several other wonder items and you have 4-5
    quick escapes."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I want to bring up something org wise. Over the years,
    there's been a creep to move away from credit sales. My understanding is in other games orgs get
    credits even for non-credit buys. It feels like in gaudi we're being strangled credit wise. The only
    reason we're even above water is because I personally donate hundreds of credits."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Well, we don't necessarily need to do it right now."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But feel free to email a list."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Steingrim does raise a good
    point there."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "That's something that can be looked at."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Fine."

  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "It seems far less that wonderitems break anything..
    .note deepcover... and that people just don't like the cost."

    Estarra nods Her head emphatically.

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "The org credit generation
    being tied into purchses of wondercrystals or bags or whatever would be cool."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I think the problem is that the cost is so high that the
    majority of players are just not ever going to be able to 'catch up' artifact wise."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "A lot of it is giving skills
    from other classes into everyone, too."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Isn't wondercrystals tied into credit purchases usually?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Like, when its mostly just
    utility skills."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many laughingly says, "Like via."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Like the ubiquitous scent."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "From nose."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That's fine."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Not sure, I think I got most
    of my wondercrystals from crate buy ins."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Even if you dropped the cost a lot people aren't going
    to catch up except for those willing to spend thousands."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Which didnt give org credits."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "No."

    You say, "Things like the artifact that gives waterbreathe etc. kinda take away from enchanters."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "But giving everyone
    illusoryself off wonderbrazier is absolutely silly because you just turned everyone in the game with
    the $ to pay to win into 'i'm essentially immune to health kills get wrecked'"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So we should probably cancel the walking cane of crucifixation?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "Old wondercrystals were "buy x
    credits, get a crystal bonus," but all the recent wondercrystal promos have been "buy crates of
    crystals"."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "So no credits involved at all."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Yea, replace it with the
    umbrella of succumb and choke."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Ah ok, I wasn't aware."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says to Marcella, "But that is a 1500cr investment."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "For stuff like utility skills
    , scent, jump, etc people were like 'well okay', just about EVERYTHING in totems has been taken by
    now. But the wonder items started giving out, like, CAPSTONE skills."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Illusoryself doesn't make you immune to health kills."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Enadonella, "Which just
    reinforces pay2win on the elite, so no one else feels like they can participate."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "The next wondercrystal item should have a power to dispel
    roomwide illusions. Obviously."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "If the skill is broken it is broken for glamour bards."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says to Marcella, "I agrre."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "See wonderwand trueheal, see
    wonderhorn empress."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Yeah, the illusoryself has been brought up as an issue."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Agree too."

    You say, "Well, the trueheal is for one person, once a month."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Those are core skills in
    sacraments and tarot which are viewed as 'the best skills in the set' usually."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to you, "Yeah , so just use
    your peppermint and get another trueheal."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Illusoryself is too strong for
    glamours or a wonderitem."

    Tambador Zayah says, "It is a little bad that some classes that are more utility/support oriented
    see their base skills given away."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many asks, "The problem is if you nerf or take away something from someone
    who has paid for it what do they get back $$ wise?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Peppermint is limited to once a month or something isn't it?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Tambador, "It's sad but its
    quality of life for everyone who pays for it, which is vastly superior in my mind to raw combat
    advantages."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Estarra, "Yeah but when you
    have multiple items that give 1/month."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Alas, poor scent, everyone has you now."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Estarra you mean specific
    Peppermint powers?"

    You say, "Yes, peppermint is one person (not yourself), once a month for trueheal."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Can you have more than one peppermint artifact?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I mean of the same type."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "They're saying 'oh, wonder
    trueheal is balanced becuase you can do it once a month', well I have peppermint too, so I can do it
    twice a month, because its on wonderwand and on peppermint."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Eventually if you keep
    releasing arties you just get more uses."

    You stick out your tongue and say, "I'm not made of money to test having more than one type."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "It comes down to this, I don't agree that something is
    broken because you may have to work harder. It isn't the end of the world if you can't always pin
    someone in a room and they can get away from you."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Cool but no one is talking
    about that at all steingrim."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Yea sort of what Marcella said
    is what I said earlier. Its 1 thing thats just a little edge but then she has a 2nd thing that is
    just another little edge then another then another and so on."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "We can change some wonder powers."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Peppermint is on other people, if it is broken to use
    it on someone else, how is trueheal not broken itself?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Because it's in Sacraments."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The issue is the
    proliferation, not the skill itself, because the skill was balanced around where it was born from."

    Faragan Ladyn says, "Once a month and you have to use it on someone. owner can not invoke."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I feel like if you change some of the wonder skills they won't
    be anywhere near worth what have been paid for."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Yea."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "They are bloody overpriced as is."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Look, we're open to balancing artifacts, we just would like some
    specifics and arguments for changing them. Marcella is listing some maybe good examples."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Even with all this 'op' talk."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Here's my solution."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "You can't change them without
    everyone WITH them bitching. You can't leave them the same because it's pay2win and other people
    can't catch up."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "You'll have to decide if you want people to give the
    game money, or if you want too keep nerfing artifacts even though people struggle to show they're
    broken."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Stop releasing new ones with
    lethal combat effects, and make wonder crystals an umpteen more available. Make them much less rare.
    Right now the community values them at 100cr each. Try to make it 50cr, maybe even 30cr each."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That way we keep the ones we
    have and we make them accessible."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "Make quests you can complete for crystals."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Aren't crystals closer to 70 now?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "They've been dropping."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Giving cr from the IRE
    subscription is a good start, but."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Accessibility is a bit of an
    issue in that crystals are a limited resource."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "If you had no crystals, and
    started subscription right now."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "We've already made efforts to do so."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "It would take you like eleven
    years."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Which means even if you have
    the money you cant always catch up."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "How about a way to buy bound
    crystals directly with credits all the time?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Yes, I'm saying double down
    on that effort instead of trying to change the wonder powers because the people WITH wonder powers
    will bitch hard."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Unless its like, something
    egregious, like nymph mask was."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Who has a lot of wonderitems and would
    complain about them being changed?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Maybe even illself."

    Faragan Ladyn says, "Crystals are not htat hard to get. corn, elite, presents, wheel,."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I would cough now, but I can't."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Corn is a 1/4th chance every
    12 days."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Elite would take 11 years of
    getting 1 crystal a month. A year and a half jsut for one complete item."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So what your saying is it's not that they're too strong, it's that everyone
    doesn't have them?"

    Deichtine suddenly loses focus in her eyes and shudders, then looks curiously refreshed.

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Well its two issues
    interlinked."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I only have 4 crystals since I put
    together my boots, so I haven't been getting a lot of them. I think all four of those are from Elite.
    "

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "No, I'm saying they are
    strong but enough people have them that are still here that if you change them and they get pissed
    off enough to leave it'd kill the game."

    Faragan Ladyn says, "They're supposed to be a l little rare? if you flood them they'll everyone will
    have one."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "A better solution is to make
    it more accessible."


  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Than to piss off what few
    players there are left who are the whales and have them all."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok well, you have given us something to think about!"

    Facet Ushaara says, "Need to head off, but have a vote for making poteen pets only visible to their
    owner, or a CONFIG to ignore entourages altogether."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Can we just."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Like."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Have the option to NOT belch
    up poteen pets."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "They are cute the first
    twenty times."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Or the ability to just have poteen pets
    auto-die, or not show up at all."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Who had the idea of an artifact to explode poteen pets?"

    Orael the Anomaly says to Ushaara, "Thanks for coming and if you have other aeonics questions, feel
    free to shoot me a message."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I don't need poteen pets everywhere."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Or was that just gods talking?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "If you like them, you can
    keep htem, if oyu can't just config it off."

    Faithful Supplicant, Sudian says, "How about just making the poteen pets poof after an hour?"

    You say, "Maybe just make mini fireworks like genies."

    Faragan Ladyn says, "They're fun. I'm planning a basin takover with a poteen pet army."

    You say, "Or cough up rainbows like the genie messages."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Can we make the fireworks from batons
    only show to people in the same room while we're at it?"

    Throwing Her hands in the air, Estarra tosses Her head back and laughs sadistically.

    Facet Ushaara says to Orael, "Good luck with it all. You'll be great!"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "The person touching their batons in the
    Battlechess arena was just *eugh*!"

    Facet Ushaara says, "Night all."

    You say, "Oh yeah, those fireworks reach manse."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I had no idea what the hell
    that was."

    Tambador Zayah says to you, "Fart rainbows instead of coughing up."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That was the new baton
    things?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Oh was that what u guys were shouting about."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Yes."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Yes it was."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Yea we got massivly spammed
    out with them."

    You say, "Yeah, that was a bit much."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I thought some admin was
    starting an event."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "And i was like DAMN WE SAW IT
    THE FIRST TIME."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Someone was touching all their batons
    multiple times."

    You say, "They're nice art, but maybe smaller scale.. like same room as person."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Anyway, any other questions?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I know on the forums a couple of people brought up changing the economy,
    which could be a lengthy process that ties up a lot of things, and as I've been thinking about it, I
    wonder if that's really what people want us working on rather than adding content like new daily
    things to do."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Aren't they local area?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I could come up with a lot of questions,
    but we'd be here all night!"

    Standing at his full height, Tambador regards his surroundings with contempt as two stunning wings
    of platinum white unfurl behind him in a grand display. The image shimmers like a mirage before it
    fades, the feathers dissipating in motes of flickering light.

    You say, "They can be seen in manses, so no."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I think we had a pretty good distribution
    of stuff so far."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Honestly, I think the most
    important thing to do would be to just try and foster the RP environment again. This is : fixing
    mobprogs, doing guild patron requests, showing up as admin and talking to/ RPing with players."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "While Orael does the combat
    stuff."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "We had someone possess Glinthor and RP
    with us."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Darvellan RP'd with me the
    other day and that's a great start."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "That was really nice, even if it was
    pretty gross and not forum-postable on an OOC level."

    You say, "Which by the way, thank you to Whoever is starting to wrap up the rats in Magnagora."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Glinthor and his nose-pickings."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Also."

    "Ewwwwwwww!" says Estarra in disgust.

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "But it's been soooo long since I've seen
    any interaction with NPCs outside of an event."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I really believe if we could get credits to be a more
    reasonable price in game...that would solve 90% of the problems."

    You say, "And Daiua yesterday with the gearbox was great."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "It was really awesome to see some life in
    the world again."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Also improving trade."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Estarra, I know you REALLY
    HATE the idea of people from other orgs worshipping gods in other orgs, but when we have so few
    active gods that RP with orders some peopel live for that kind of RP and making it so damn
    inaccessible is soul-crushing, especially when you have characters that really like gods in other
    orgs for their philosophies. There's overlap."

    You say, "Tattoos that we can sell in shops!"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Please, please consider,
    again, removing affinity."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "People just don't need trades any more. And even when I do
    trades for people I don't charge because I don't need to. But then the people who do need to are
    missing out because I am just throwing crap at people for free."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Would you prefer gods not be tied to cities or communes?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "There was an envoy report for temporary tattoos, but it was put on the back
    burner for now."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Yes."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Honestly, I'd prefer that
    over affinity, because I heard that EVERYONE lvoed Elostian."

    You say, "Ah, alright."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "And Elostian was a rogue god
    right?"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Estarra I'm frustrated when changes are made without
    goals and purposes stated. I know that's the norm, but it often leads to bad outcomes. Clearly, some
    are asking for econ changes so they can make gold hand over fist and some are asking other players
    to shoulder the burden of their playstyle. I'd ask two things, decide what an econ should do and
    then implement things towards those specific goals, and also roll out changes in small steps,
    perhaps single skills or areas so we can see if the people asking for this things will even stick
    around to do them."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Marcella, "Not everyone."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Before halli came out."

    Unitos, Initiate of the Purifyed says, "Elostian was the example I was thinking of as well."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "He'd just roll up to people
    and RP with them."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Marcella, "There was some drama between
    Elostian and Glomdoring."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That sounds amazing."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Ah, the drama."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "There was a mag divine that accepted all peoples."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Yeha then Estarra editted his
    help file to retcon that."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "BUT it was still interaction."

    You say, "Another thing would be for players to buy truefavours with gold as a goldsink?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Fain had that."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "In his godrealm."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "But the mob is broken."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Estarra, "I would prefer that Gods had
    the *choice* to be tied to an org or not."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Mobprog problems."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "HAHAHA."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Estarra, "Let them pick vs. requiring
    them to be bound."

    You say, "As some people follow gods that are inactive - and don't want to offer to another divine
    as it's against their RP to.."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Fain has a moby ou're
    supposed to give gold to to buy TFs, but he's busted."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "We've discussed truefavours for gold and I don' tthink that really would
    be a good idea."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "We can already do that though
    estarra."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Argleblasters are pretty
    buyable."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Also enemy statuses to inactive divine."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "For org entry."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Its sort of tricky but have
    you considered not binding a single god to a single player. Part of the issue I found was that one
    player really struggles to keep up. Inevitably you have gods go inactive for literal years, their
    order which was thriving dies and that's the death of a massive roleplay avenue."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "One of the triple junction
    brews is literally 'TF in a can that doesnt stack with T F'"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Truefavours were pretty nerfed. but maybe let gods hand
    them out for more things."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "If the gods were more like
    shells that a team can operate."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Deichtine, "Yeah but then it
    loses RP consistency because p1 doesn't know what p2 did with adventurer 3."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Because people cant keep
    proper notes."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I really think that would make for a poor situation."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "It would require good notes
    and communication."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Deichtine, "I have an idea for something that
    effectively does that, but may not step on toes. I'll post it."

    Someone powerful says, "It's not that we can't keep notes. It's that there are literally 100 things
    we are already keeping various notes on."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Like for example we had a time
    in glomdoring with no active gods for the better part of a year."


  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Someone powerful says, "Sometimes we spend half our time keeping notes!"

    Someone powerful says, "We have had ephemerals wade into our notes and never emerge."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "I just really really do not
    want to be in that kind of situation again."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I think the key is you have to get out of doing so much
    as gods."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Have your high priests do more. Have wandering peopel
    of power that can pick up slack when other gods are away."

    Someone powerful says, "Do ask our high priests to do things."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "As far as I'm concerned
    Magnagora hasn't had an active RP god in the six years I've been playing this game except Drocilla
    briefly before IRL devoured her soul. Now, I hear this is because 'the playerbase is hostile to gods
    in Mag'. I think it's more 'everyone in Mag is so jaded about gods that if only they would do
    something visible for us we'd fall all over ourselves for them', kind of like what we....*did* for
    Drocilla."

    Someone powerful says, "However, for various reasons people leave."

    Someone powerful says, "Every Divine (and their order) works differently, too. That variety is part
    of what makes them interesting."

    Someone powerful says, "And what we spent the last year working up towards disappears because people
    don't come back. It works this way for Gods too."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I did have a suggestion for Estarra a
    while ago that was basically "If an org has no gods, see if some other volunteer in another org
    would like to chip in and get extra recognition for that"."
    Someone powerful says, "So we have high priests, but they do not always stay."

    You say, "Well, we are getting interaction the last few days with Snaikka."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "That was before Vira and Nocht came back
    ."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I mean denizen high priests, but I'll explain more in
    my post."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "All I know is that Glom didn't have guildhalls for a stupidly
    long ass time."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Yea it got to the point with
    glom that Ianir had to step in to do the god.admin stuff because there was no one around."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "For example, I really, really
    wanted an IC reason to love Thax. But like during the High Gods event when Karagash did nothing, Mag
    rebelled against Karagash. I didn't want to do that again with Thax. So I went and prayed to Thax
    and basically begged him to do something visible. Something visible that I thought would be easy, I
    gave as a suggestion."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "'we've done that before actually, it ends up that its much more dififcult
    for one person to take on 2 god roles (which is why it just won't happen if there's even more group
    effort on one god)"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That would be, 'fix the Sun
    damage in the Presidio of the Damned.'"

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "And that is really horrible to feel like your org is neglected
    in such a way."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Later on I found out that
    apparantly, the person who had the room descriptions for the Presidio....quit the admin team and it
    was all on their hard drive, so it's been permanently lost."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "So now the quest there is
    broken unless you already know what to do because you can't look in the rooms for the props to
    manipulate."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "And everything's on fire."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "And its been like that for
    IRL years."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Enadonella, "I sent an email on that to
    Estarra, she stepped in and got it done for us."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many asks Xenthos, "I know, but after how long?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "But yeah, that was a long break there."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "We understand that it's frustrating."

    Someone powerful says, "We do also step in and help fill in gaps where we can - the difficulty is
    that we all have a lot on our plates as it is. However, we're working hard to do what we can to
    improve how we work and ensure that we're prioritising the time we are able to spend with you. Not
    every volunteer can give the same amount of time, so it's a hard balance to find."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "Think it was about five months
    or something."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "I mean it didn't matter to me personally...I wasn't even here.
    And I joined a guild way after joining."

    Defender of Faethorn, Deichtine Ysav'rai, Creation of the Wyrd says, "It was a bit of a harsh time,
    lost some players waiting for it."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Also the people are happy to help too. Like, you guys could ask
    more of people if they are asking for things."

    Drone Enadonella, One of Many says, "Not everyone here is useless."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "You know, I did that."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Ianir had us crowdsource a bunch of defs
    for the def overhaul, I did an entire skill web diagram for the website that he paid me for."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "That thing still isn't live, by the way."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Drocilla was around to give
    us paths, but we haven't had anything else done, even though we were promised a way in the Infernals
    to re-enact the Bulwark of the Damned and attack the shields of other places after doing a quest
    that doesn't involve killing enemy godmobs, but instead fulfilling some kind of soul-reaping
    objective. Now, that's a big thing, but other patron requests are just stuff like 'make a statue of
    our next GM in the GM statue room.'"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "It just needs descriptions plugged into
    it for some things I didn't have."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "And still got the same complaints about inactivity etc."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So just remember that there are two sides here and it's not for a lack of
    want that this kind of neglect happens."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Considering our big guild
    secret is related to that after GR3 underneath the guildhall, it is difficult ot keep continued
    interest in the Infernal mission."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "We also understand there is a
    high turnover rate for admin because of the workload. Have you discussed as a company or staff IG
    personally to see how that could be addressed? Are you going to be changing the environment these
    volunteers are in to allow for more people to maybe stick around?"

    Someone powerful says, "We do have a lot of ways that players can help out! By being a mortal
    builder, or guide, or reviewer - these are ALL things that help us a huge amount. With patron
    requests, you'll often be asked to submit your own descriptions for things too, which reduces the
    time they take to build."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "You know what would help us
    all out a lot in our faith in admin?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I used to guide a lot, I just didn't have
    time for the workload, but obviously I still help out with newbies when they need it even without
    the shell."

    Orael tilts His head and listens intently.

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "HELP GODPROJECTS. Put a list
    of what every volunteer is working on so that we can see what is being done and by who, so we know
    who's doing stuff behind the scenes. Like maybe it would say THAX: Working on illithoid epicquest
    mobprog, patron requests."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "And if you ask me to help with other
    stuff I usually go "Yeah, sure, what can I do for you?""

    Orael the Anomaly says to Vatul, "We've actually discussed it, and are working on some plans that
    will hopefully help."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That way when something
    breaks we'd also know who did it and who knows how to fix it."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist smiles and says, "We've got a ton of time and
    effort invested in this game too, we love it and want to see it excel."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "Are you planning to address
    those publicly and on a schedule?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "No."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That way even the gods who
    dno't do shit IC like Kalikai get the recognition they deserve for stuff."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Well gods are RP, I'd rather not link gods to specific things like that."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "And let me tell you why."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "Of course. Please do."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "There's been a ton of promises, a ton of projects a ton of updates that
    have been promised."

    Someone powerful says, "Marcella, gods already have a hard enough time with doing things without
    players resenting us for things beyond our control."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Things that we've continually said 'hey we're working on it'"

    Someone powerful says, "There is a reason some of us don't show up as much as we'd like to."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "And then for whatever reason, legit or not, it just doesn't happen."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "I would agree, Nameless Admin, that
    keeping tabs on someone will not make them want to do a good job. Or feel positive about the
    environment."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist looks skeptical and says, "I don't like hearing
    that. I want you to show up more, whomever you are."

    Someone powerful says, "Some of us spend upwards of 30 to 40 hours a week working on Lusternia alone
    . It's hard trying to juggle everything. Some of us have off weeks, on weeks."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I mean, for instance, the Hallifax special report was promised over a year
    ago and part of the burnout is the lack of delivering on things."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I don't resent anyone. I just
    want to see what's happening."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "So if we make a schedule, or a list of projects or show you what's
    happening."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "What's the reason you don't show up? I may have missed
    it."

    Someone powerful says, "It's very very hard to feel positive about doing all this work when
    constantly there's griping about this god, or that one, and sadness about the work we do but is not
    appreicated."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "But you could come to resent it, if the
    things that are scheduled to happen are not done."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Sorry, you're appear to be saying now."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "And it doesn't get done, that just adds onto that list of failed promises."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "OK, I used to resent Thax.
    But a lot less, after I had the communication about why the Preisdio thing couldn't be done. Because
    someone TOLD me that it was difficult. So I was like, 'oh okay that's fair.'"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I can tell you that
    absolutely NO ONE in Magnagora resents Drocilla, because Drocilla has always been really transparent
    about being gone and why."

  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Orael the Anomaly says, "So what we're going to do is tell you our immediate projects that we are
    focused on then and there and are priority above everything else."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "The problem with lists is lists need to be maintained
    and then people expect you to spend time explaining your progress on them."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "Right. I'm more concerned
    about the schedule to address the environment of the Admin are in. How are you going to get more
    people in, if there's such a high turnover rate."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "One list that might work is a someday list."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "As I said, that's something we're working on."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "But I CAN tell you that
    people in Magnagora resent Thax a lot for making an order then, apparantly, promptly fucking right
    off with no communication, leaving Shaddus and Shango to try and build from scratch with little to
    no RP."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "I would say the resentment is not with
    vehemence."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I'm really not that sure our turnover rate is that high."

    Sniffing about cautiously, a frisky puppy explores a bit before returning to sit by the feet of her
    master.

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Didn't thax make it clear that he wasn't from the
    beginning planning on being order focused? or was that someone else?"

    Skeptically, Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I dunno Shaddus
    was pretty vehement about getting that after quitting the Fain order after being in it for years and
    years and years."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I think that's kind of a rumor that got started for reasons i'd rather
    not speculate on."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Anyway."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Well, Estarra, it looks like
    the turnover rate is high becuase a full half f the god roles in the pantheon are unfilledo n HELP
    GODS. It feels like if it was easier to become a successful eph, then youd have more active gods."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Just from an outsider view."

    Orael the Anomaly says to Vatul, "We're trying to prioritize things better and work on scheduling
    things better so there's less pressure to get things out."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "'obviously they cant get
    enough people because they have so many empty slots!'"

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "I respect the 'we are working
    on it.' I'm hoping that you guys call for more applicants, or somehow make it easier for us to
    volunteer beyond just reviewers, builders, and so on."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Apply for eph next time and help us out!"

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "More mortal coders!"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But I don't want to promise you that all these changes and efforts are in
    the pipeline that never come to fruition."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I am never, ever going to apply for
    Ephemeral because I am not giving up my character."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "That is fair."

    You say, "With Ephs, do you have to know how to code? Asking for a friend."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "No."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "But if you need help in ways that do NOT
    require me to give up my character, ask!"

    Someone powerful says, "The thing to remember with ephemeral calls is that training ephemerals is
    time-consuming, too. It might seem that we need more - we always do! - but we can't necessarily just
    keep taking more and more. It wouldn't be fair to the ones we are presently training."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "No but you need to do some scripting."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I am probably giving up my
    character but I love the lore of Lusternia enough to where I'd maybe apply for ephemeral after going
    to Starmourn."

    Someone powerful says, "Who are, it's worth noting, absolutely amazing and worthy of love."

    You say, "As long as you can explain-like-I'm-5."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "But I doubt I would be
    accepted because of my constant strife with the playerbase and admins both."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "A coding background makes scripting easier but there's lots of great
    scripters who've never coded."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "You are also worthy, Nameless Admin. I
    am sorry to hear that you have been met with resentment."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Which is part of why I never
    bothered applying in the past."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says to you, "You mean, like your friend is 5."

    You say, "Oh yes, my friend."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Oh, a point I want to make."

    Someone powerful says, "Thank you! But there are actually several of us speaking. Just to keep you
    on your toes."

    Estarra taps Her nose knowingly.

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Even if our characters resent
    , you, that really doesn't mean we IRL do, too. In fact, the antagonistic god RP is one of the
    coolest things that can ever happen, in my opinion."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "When Darvellan did his thing
    where I had to find his star, that was COOL."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Czixi is awesome even thouh
    Czixi beat my ass multiple times."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That kindo f thing."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "If only that feeling could extend to the rest of the players too."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Czixi fried me for trying to get explorer
    points. Woe."

    Talkan La'Saet laughingly says to Marcella, "It can sometimes go too far."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Do you remember Lillie."

    You say to Xenthos, "You got all the rooms now though!"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Where all the players get along and engage in good faith!"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "OOCly of course."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Talkan, "So why do you not play anymore?"

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "Might I ask if you've
    considered anything to encourage RP come up in the future?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Lillie did that stuttering
    thing because way back when she was a noob, Nocht cursed her with the inability to talk properly.
    She was mute entirely during the new moon and could talk normally during the full."

    Talkan La'Saet says to Steingrim, "Oh man, so many reasons tbh."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I thought that was the
    coolest shit that a god would do that."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "It was a curse."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Talkan, "Unless you're just alting."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Me? No because my focus is on behind the scenes and coding."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Nope, only have Talkan as a character."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Now, I have a night shift job
    , so I am usually only active during the times when no one else is."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Orael, "Yes. But I'm asking if there
    would be anything mechanically to encourage it further."

    Someone powerful says, "I have a question for the player base."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But there are efforts by our wonderful volunteers to encourage RP as some
    of you have noticed lately."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "So, say, I send Ein a message
    after His release, and I ask 'what are Your hours, so I don't waste time trying to RP with a god I'm
    never around to RP with?""

    Someone powerful says, "In the past gods used to use curses and zaps more."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I never get a message. I
    really wish I would have gotten a reply."

    Someone powerful says, "However, obviously there were times when that went too far."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That kind of OOC coordination
    and metagame can be really healthy."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Long curses are generally petty."

    Someone powerful says, "Is that something you would be okay with gods doing more often? curses and
    zaps in IC appropriate situations?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Zaps are the worst thing ever if you're
    an Ascendant."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The mechanical curses are
    pretty petty, generally."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "If you zap an Ascendant they can't reform
    , they're stuck in the room they died in until the body reforms."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "For instance I don't happen to believe that the
    duration Xenthos and I got was the planned duration before we got involved."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "I think there can be a lot more interesting and dynamic friction between gods
    and characters OUTSIDE of zapping."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "It's basically a lock-out from doing
    anything."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Do stuff that doesn't screw
    with people's ability to play the game."

    Exemplar Allixea, Knife in the Dark says, "I want more zaps! I can't remember the last time I saw
    Estarras shoe."

  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "I believe that it would be something
    that is part of the game that is necessary. Gods have things that need to be taken care of with some
    smiting."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Adoration drains all your
    endurance."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Maggoting, duh."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "And TrueDisfavours are useful... but...
    they need to have a cap. TDF for 30 days is excessive."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Zaps kill you. Use the
    warning zaps more, maybe."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Zaps should be for wrist slaps to tell players not to do what they're doing
    because they're toeing a line that's bad for the game overall."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Use things that aren't TDF.
    Use normal DFs, GDFs."

    Someone powerful says, "I'm not talking about 30 day TDFs."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "Honestly, we don't have many losses for
    essence. We need reasons to regain essence."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "A zap should never be because you annoyed or made a god angry IC."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think the only thing to say about TDF's is that usually the god is
    willing to RP stuff after a TDF."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "To someone powerful. A GM once taught me that you
    should not break a player without making it up to them. That's my answer."

    Someone powerful says, "Sometimes, Gods don't interact because literally, it feels hard for Gods to
    have consequences for player actions anymore."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "What does Lusternia expect to happen when
    Starmourn releases? Do you antipicate population drop briefly or long term? Has new realms coming
    out changed out player base in general? Yada yada?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "And the curses are cool when you use them
    a little bit, but when they go on too long or too repetitively they get annoying vs. cool."

    Someone powerful says, "We agree. We're not talking about 30 day curses."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I would also recommend OOCly
    contacting a player, going, like , 'woudl you be willing to RP this custom curse if I gave it to
    you?'"

    Someone powerful says, "But curses for an hour or two."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Tremula and Drocilla had this
    big shit going on about her voice, and Tremulas character was entirely mute for a while, because
    they both agreed OOC."

    Exemplar Allixea, Knife in the Dark says to Estarra, "While on the topic of zapping you should zap
    someone with your shoe. I would even volunteer."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "That's reasonable, and would be cool."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Lillie's voice and Nocht."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Yeah, an hour or two curse isn't a
    problem to me."

    Someone powerful says, "Sometimes, even that feels like it would invite resentment. And the end
    result is that we simply just don't interact."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "You can play, and you can RP going with
    (or fighting) the curse."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I expect people will run to try out starmourn and then drift back,
    espcially those who prefer fantasy over scifi."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "But some may stay, should be expected."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Which is why my post is that I think you all should
    stop playing your god roles so much. It is really frustrating to not try to pull information out of
    gods. Instead, please play your realm npcs and denizens across the basin."

    In smooth, silken tones, Lady Haruspex Rancoura So'hthae, Ole'noc Caihel says, "Zaps and curses fall
    under "thrilling divine interaction" for me, which I would personally like to see more of."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "If I may on a different subject, what can be done
    about patron requests? If anything, I would like to see a little nudge from our divine pantheon on
    some sort of reply when requests are made. Perhaps something along the lines of a polite reply of
    "we'll get back with you on this as soon as we're able to" I can't seem to make of what to think
    when days upon days go by without some sort of reply."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "I agree, Rancoura."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Just as people continued to play others when lusty was released."

    In smooth, silken tones, Lady Haruspex Rancoura So'hthae, Ole'noc Caihel says, "Even Divine shouting
    matches, I miss those."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "If you're worried about your
    gods not feeling authoritative, but you still want to cause RP?"

    Someone powerful says, "Popping back a tiny bit - we are definitely working on things to encourage
    roleplay. Both globally, and on an organisational level. You've seen a push for this in the past
    week or so, and it's a momentum we want to keep going - having all of you respond and also engage
    with us proactively really helps that."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Mob possession, yes, a
    thousand times yes."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "As an aside for starmourn, I suggest you not roll out
    the new archetype until after it has been opened for months."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I always respond when an NPC talks to
    me!"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "As much as I disliked Mysrai
    she played an absolutely fucking amazing Sebitti Silkenhand, and my character got way more RP and
    nice things out of RPing with her than she ever would have with the god Mysrai."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I love NPC interactions!"

    In smooth, silken tones, Lady Haruspex Rancoura So'hthae, Ole'noc Caihel says, "Anything to make it
    feel like Gods are still part of the world as a whole, not just cloistered in Their orgs for those
    who are visible there."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Yomoigu's godmobs were so
    cool and I wish Is aw more of them."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Wouldnt new archetype give people a reason to come
    back? do an e-mail push, which we should do more, and try to get some returns."

    Someone powerful says, "Unfortunately, some of us have had difficulty with NPC interactions as well.
    People simply do not respond."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "It just is really frustrating you all are playing gods,
    but then have to act stupid in the face of events."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Because they're AFK, or
    what?"

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Yeah one of my favorite memories was when methrenton and my champ archangel
    were possessed by an admin."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Unfortunately, the new archtype that I wanted out this year probably
    won't happen. Maybe something else I shouldn't have promised, though I thought we cuold do it at the
    time."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Now, I may not always be the most fun to
    interact with since Xenthos is very... stoic."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "But I love the talks anyways."

    You say, "I think NPC interactions are less daunting than Gods interactions, though the latter is
    still a great thing."

    Someone powerful says, "Sometimes we spend hours planning something, and perhaps one person responds
    ."

    Someone powerful says, "It's discouraging on our part as well."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "If I can zoom out a bit here - did this thread start because someone said they
    arent happy with the current interactions with gods? I missed the first bit."

    Someone powerful says, "So we have to yell, shout, tug."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Yeah we need some ways to communicate better."

    Someone powerful says, "You can also help position yourself to be more open to NPC interaction, too
    - simply by not being in a manse if you're available. We can't really have a mob wander in your
    manse, but we can totally have them walk into you at the Moonhart."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, ""tell xenthos Come here please"."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "I get very excited with any
    interactions. But because they are so few and far in between sometimes - I feel though some players
    kind of have not seen it before, and crowd around. Or well -- They think that some players are
    'hogging' interactions."

    Someone powerful says, "So we would appreciate if players engage with NPC interactions as well."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Might there be an answer to my question per se?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Oh, and I also try to always hang at the
    Ravenwood so Glomdoring knows there's someone to walk up and talk to if they want to as well."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I have never had an
    interaction I havne't responded to, and if I haven't, it's because I literally missed it."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "But if you're the only one that shows
    up...Then, it seems pretty acidic to think so."

    In smooth, silken tones, Lady Haruspex Rancoura So'hthae, Ole'noc Caihel says, "Likewise."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I generally try to take a backseat to events because I
    never liked those who jump all over them. That said, afterwards I've sometimes felt that the admin
    really needed someone to step up."

    You say, "I followed Daiua the other day for five mins before realising she was just wondering..,
    but yesterday she talked back and I had a nice interaction. Was great fun!"

    Someone powerful says, "Recently, we mostly would prefer anyone to step up."

    Someone powerful says, "As so few do."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist looks skeptical and says, "Daiua came by and I
    dragged everyone over to see her."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Magnagora has had loose ends
    laying around for ages. We would really like the Cogs leader to finally get given to Nifilhema, we
    would love the corpse in the commissioner's office to get raised. Jinlu needs to return to her room
    in the Wailing Woman."

    Someone powerful says, "Having more time to do NPC interaction is one of the things we're working on
    sorting - like has been mentioned a bit, we're working as a team to balance and block our time so
    that we can give you more of the things that are lacking."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Thax's spear litter all over
    the basin."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok guys, we need to wrap up soon."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Just...remnants of old events
    never dealt with."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Shall I repeat my question?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "So basically, please come play with me, I
    won't bite too much unless your RP involves keph-bugs."

    You say to Marcella, "They just said they're working on things."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to Marcella, "Lots of those remnants
    aren't decided on with those endings, I'm sure."

    Orael the Anomaly says to Minkahmet, "Yes please."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Because Xenthos must squish keph-bugs."

    Someone powerful says, "We're definitely aware and conscious of the fact that it's a problem area,
    and one that we're very passionate about. So keep working with us to make it possible, and we'll do
    what we can to keep this good momentum going."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "If I may on a different subject, what can be done
    about patron requests? If anything, I would like to see a little nudge from our divine pantheon on
    some sort of reply when requests are made. Perhaps something along the lines of a polite reply of
    "we'll get back with you on this as soon as we're able to" I can't seem to make of what to think
    when days upon days go by without some sort of reply."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to touch
    base on?"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "It would be nice if orgs had some sort of points they
    could spend on things to attempt to make them priorities."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Orael, "Nice to meet you."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "I just came in unfortunately!"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "We also have all of Ghani's
    goons still locked up."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "I've got some patron requests too, but
    some of them are kind of complex."

    Orael the Anomaly says to Romaan, "And you as well!"

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "And that couldn't be simply dismissed. So that at least
    the producers might see that something has been wanted for say years."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Yeah the more weird and complex a request is, the more likely it will get
    bogged in red tap."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Tape."

    Someone powerful says, "Sometimes requests set precedents for every org too, which means they need a
    lot more discussion than you might expect - if it's something that hasn't been done before,
    especially."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "All of mine are approved and paid for now
    ."

    Talkan snorts and snuffles at the air through a ridiculous pig nose.

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "It's all just bound up in
    "implementation" now I think."

    Someone powerful says, "Minkahmet, you can always comment again on the patron requests, as a ping.
    And if there is no reply, you can email the producers with concerns. In terms of implementation,
    again, the harder the request is, the longer it will take to implement."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I've never realy had any
    extensive divine RP for ever so please please please please please. Every time I get it I seem to
    screw it up, but I am absolutely open to negative consequences as well. I just want a reason to log
    in, even if it's to adversarially talk to/do tasks against a God. If anyone engages with me I will
    love them OOC. Just to put that out there."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Note to self, curse Marcella lots."

    The corners of Estarra's mouth turn up as She grins mischievously.

    With a vengeful frown upon Her face, Estarra causes a sphere of scorching blue flame to coalesce in
    Her palm, before thrusting it forward angrily into a precise lance of fire towards Marcella.
    You notice the lance of flame rushing towards your location just before it sears the air around you,
    slamming directly into Marcella's chest, causing her to stretch her mouth out in a wordless cry of
    pain. As the flame fades from Marcella's body, she relaxes again and begins to breathe, surprisingly
    left with no mark upon her.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Feel better?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Yes."

    "Heh heh heh" Estarra chuckles.

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I have so much esteem and no
    gods to offer it to."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Yeah, I figured about the implementation from
    learning that in Serenwilde, but yeah, I was merely curious if there's to be a tug on having the
    divine pantheon's response in some way."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Marcella, "Be careful what you wish for."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "You know what my
    favorite story of all time is?"

    Someone powerful says, "Commenting sends a message to all the divine pantheon."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says, "Nope."

    Someone powerful says, "So that's a ping."


  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "When Hajamin
    decided 'hell yeah I'll PVP you' to Murphy and got his brains bashed out."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "That is such an
    amazing story."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Did anyone bring up the lack of conflict? TBF I'm way out of date on what's
    going on lately, but that was a major reason I stopped logging in."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Ooh, so it doesn't only just go to your org's
    pantheon?"

    Someone powerful says, "Only your org's."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Gotcha."

    Someone powerful says, "And the producers."

    The corners of Estarra's mouth turn up as She grins mischievously.

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Marcella, "Oh, I missed that. that would be fun."

    You say, "I had a question about guild lore - I know the new guilds it's a lot of player-run lore
    and such to get something worked out, and from previous lore, but is there a possible way to get
    hands on what was the final idea surrounding new guilds? Or is that something I should ask my guild.
    "

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Talkan, "Is has on the boards very recently as well in
    the past, but not this meeting."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "Like, I guess his
    player had been a warrior befor ebecoming an eph."

    Talkan La'Saet says to Steingrim, "Gotcha."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "I also heard a
    story that one time Terentia gave her swords to someone in a wargames."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Ask your guild, I honestly don't know the answer."

    You say, "Ok."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "It had 999 in all
    stats and instakilled everyone and was super funny."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to you, "There was a guild development
    clan, and some online document collaborations used. I can try to find them for you."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to you, "Admin never had an exact "final
    idea"."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Lack of conflict is something we can look at, but it's not the priority at
    this moment."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "My understanding were players were going to develop the lore with the
    patrons."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Marcella, "That would be amazing."

    You say to Vatul, "Please, that would be great help!"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "Gods never do that
    kind of fun stuff that I know about these days."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to you, "At least in Glomdoring, it was a
    "general concept, this is what we wanted to do" and then the first guild leaders actually
    implemented."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says to you, "Of course. Anything to get
    things more palatable."

    Talkan La'Saet says to Orael, "To be more direct, lack of INCENTIVE to create conflict."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "That was something we were attempting to do in the
    Listeners was to move the lore along, but that was based mostly on the old players knowledge and how
    we want to intertwine that going forward."

    You say to Xenthos, "No, but when I was GL of the Sowers, we had a book with the final agreed upon
    general ideas for what the Sowers was going to be."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "All 3 of Glomdoring's guilds elected the
    people most involved with planning so we basically forged ahead with our ideas."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "About players building lore."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Obviously you guys can't force players to fight all the time, but the game
    should encourage it in my opinion."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "There's a lot of stuff about
    that that makes people hesitant."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Scholarly books being
    rejected because its impossible to do actual science IC so you just make stuff up and see what they
    accept."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Marcella, "It was such fun when Drocilla and Darvellan
    were having their...war."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The legend of how the Nekotai
    got fucked over by scorpion 'clarifications.'"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Right, that too, we've been running through ideas and such to encourage it,
    but that's about it until we can get caught up on other stuff on our plates."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Talkan, "You could come back and break something and
    release another evil. I think that worked last time."

    Someone powerful says, "About the scholarly books, I can comment on that."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Marcella, "That one is still a *huge*
    sore point."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Marcella, "That one was... so, so, so
    bad."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Haha true, it always helps kickstart a war."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Like."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Why bother making our own
    lore."

    Someone powerful says, "Give me a moment to formulate a response on the books."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "It might get scorpion'd."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "So just wait for the admin."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Marcella, "That one was lore based on
    NPC reactions. The NPC reactions got *changed* so that the book could be rejected."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "That's the thought."

    Talkan La'Saet says to Orael, "I got you. For me, that's a major bummer. Again, I'm out of date on
    anything in the last 5 years but I always felt the game was specifically set up to be in a never-
    ending war."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Poor Nekotai."

    Someone powerful says, "If people could wait a bit for typing, I'd really appreciate it."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Xenthos, "Ur'guard had that
    happen too."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Oh, no problem."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I was waiting on the book
    topic."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "By talking about something
    else."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "It is a bummer, I'd like to see more opportunity for conflict across the
    board."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Aye."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "But first, I think we need to work on everyone feeling like they can
    compete."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "That too."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Hehe."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Everyone can compete if you stop making things so
    complex."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Definitely. I feel like artifacts were just reaching the insanity level of
    requirements to be competitive - no idea what things are like now."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Steingrim, "What's complex
    about 4 cures."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Its bad.."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Haha."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Very very bad, Talkan."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Oh :9."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Which I suppose has not been brought up, the
    overwhelming complexity of combat here."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Complexity is what makes things fun and exciting."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "I don't think complex combat is a blocker."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "And yes, we don't have people."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Overwhelming complexity?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I wonder if we're any worse than any other IRE game when it comes to
    artifacts."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I dont think so."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Systems have always existed and been shared that overcomes the majority of
    complex combat in IRE."

    Drunken Master Malarious, Revelling Rascal says, "Can we blow up an org or two?"

    Someone powerful says, "No."

    In smooth, silken tones, Lady Haruspex Rancoura So'hthae, Ole'noc Caihel says, "No."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Which orgs?"

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "No."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "We also have SSC now to help with that."

  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Blow up Ackleberry and Jojobo
    ."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "The complexity isn't the issue for me, as it keeps
    things stimulating honestly, but some things are outdated as in "workable" under the pre overhaul
    mechs, and just sorely is outpaced by the mechs of today."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "They've had it too good for
    too long."

    Someone powerful says, "With regard to scholarly books, the reason we keep a close hand on making up
    lore is because scholarly books are published in the world library, and players reading it may take
    it as canon. We often have many areas / events / other plans ongoing in havens that have to do with
    lore, and have to do with keeping lore self-consistent. Thus, we hold a higher standard to players
    writing scholarly books. Creating lore is certainly attractive, but uncontrolled, it causes the
    world's lore continuity to fall apart, and confusing among the players."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Isn't there a city called Magnagora?"

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Let's Wyrd Hallifax, they can join us."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Though it still likely needs a lot of work to be at the same level of other
    systems."

    Ayisdra Ysav'rai says, "On the topic of aritfacts, if it hasn't been said before - a lot of
    artifacts are super pricey for how little they actually buff you."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "There will always be room for people to dig deeper. But
    basic combat requires far too much effort and clearly people constantly prefer to just give up."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Keep forgetting we can't emote."

    Someone powerful says, "So yes, we do keep a tight handle on people just making things up, for that
    reason."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Back in what I consider the heydey we only had 10 or so people fighting at the
    top level, but we had 50-100 people who would get involved regularly."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "I'd work on answering why those top people weren't replaced."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Do people give up because it's too complex or because they feel like they
    can't compete?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "So...yeah, when you make a
    scholarly book you have to make stuff up and see what gets accepted or not."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "I have known in the past a Divine to
    accept speculative lore. But when it was published to have it be rejected. I think it is worth re-
    examining the scholarly standards."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Can't compete-I believe."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "I think honestly, because it is just too much work."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The reason is sound."

    Someone powerful says, "I know of the particular one you speak of, Vatul."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "But that doesn't mean it
    isn't still player-unfriendly because a book being rejected actively hurts the org."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Imagine how much you have to learn to just wrap your
    head about combat here."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think SSC gives people enough of a base to get involved."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "It damages the credibility."

    Shango has entered the area.

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Is that not true?"

    Someone powerful says, "The particular speculative lore was rejected by the Divine reference."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Do you think we should attempt to simply things more?"

    Tambador Zayah says, "The issue now isn't the complexity it the ability to have an impact."

    Someone powerful says, "Referenced, rather."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "It makes it harder for them to just not walk in and die
    ."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "No, I don't."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I think it's simpler than it
    needs to be, it just needs to be balanced better."

    Someone powerful says, "I'd also mention that it is possible to research things with what exists in
    the game. We get some incredibly scholarly works where the person has clearly gone and researched
    the intricacy of an area, or a race, or so forth. There's a huge amount of depth in descriptions
    alone, and a lot to be talked about in a way that exposes parts of the lore already present."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "The change to four cures is
    crazy."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Compared to how it used to be
    ."

    Someone powerful says, "Incredible scholarly, pardon."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Agreed with Marcella."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "But then we ask them to fight dozens of people and go
    out and hunt for the information on how to participate."

    Someone powerful says, "Indeed, there are amazing scholarly books out there, well written, based
    entirely on what's already in game."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Isn't that something you as players can help with?"

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Hrm, good point."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "As an example, imagine instead if the wiki gave
    eq/balance times and actually listed requirements and affs?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Magnagora has comprehensive
    helps for every class in our combat clan."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "When I was a player, I got a lot of help from other players in learning."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "To Someone, though. We have examples of
    players doing that, and then the area gets changed after the book is published, so that the book can
    be rejected."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "Ah. I see. And, I hold no issue with
    that - But didn't know that until just now. But there are also some times where players will have
    that speculative lore put into the game because of their writing and ideas."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Yeah, but the playerbase are very diverse in their
    opinions to even agree on that."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "So how can you trust even that to work?"

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says, "This is all way over my head. I come to have fun and
    for the most part, it is fun. That is the bottom line for me."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Well is what I said even something that you want to see
    happen, or do the admin prefer that sort of thing to be hidden?"

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think we've been moving towards more and more transparency."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Which is great."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I hope you have fun, Romaan!"

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "So, maybe instead of penalizing the
    players with loss of prestige in those cases. Just reject them outright, and maybe have a little
    talk with them."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I think it's safe to say that if Envoys asked me about a certain mechanic
    or something, I'd pretty much lay it out for them."

    Someone powerful says, "We're not sure what book you're referring to, Xenthos."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "It's why I would never ever do a
    scholarly work, the savagery in the comments on that when the person did exactly what they were
    supposed to really turned me off."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "It was the Nekotai book regarding
    Scorpion."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Estarra, "I do, except when I do stupid stuff like
    walking into the Megalith."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "And that's a problem. How does that help non-envoys."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "When I stopped playing I had basically decided that the game wasnt' fun
    anymore because combat was becoming more and more meaningless. Everything was being watered down and
    I was fighitng just to fight instead of achieving a goal."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Envoys represent the players and should be relaying that information to
    players."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Considering envoys won't
    exist anymore."

    Unitos, Initiate of the Purifyed says to Romaan, "I walked into Mag Prime the other day don't feel
    bad."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "I even have one who's a non-envoy who's frustrated
    that he has ideas-valid ones, but can't seem to get them across to our current envoys."

    Someone powerful says, "Vatul, there is no way to reject the book outright without losing prestige.
    It's an artifact of the Library system."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Unitos, "Been there, done that, too."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Romaan, "The Megalith just
    wants to hug you."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "At the height of conflict, we were getting relently complaints from
    players that it was too onerous or burdensome or debilitating. Just saying, 2 sides to everything."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Marcella, "It hugs all aright."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "We have skills that I'm not even sure how the admin
    expect them to work. So how can I begin to give feedback on if they seem broken or working?"

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Yeah, no one likes losing - although I feel having meaningful loss makes the
    wins better."

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says to Marcella, "I guess it's the guards that don't like me
    ."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "As a note, I think it was Janalon's book,
    I can try to find it if you want me to and leave a reference # with someone."

    Someone powerful says, "Vatul, hanging the code is very difficult for the library system, and
    certainly it could be considered as one of the things that could be worked on, but competes with
    everything else Orael will be doing."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "You can always issue yourself."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Janalon, yeah, that was the
    name."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "I think a better approach to that complaint isn't to water things down but to
    move the pieces on the board, so to speak, so the power dynamic changes organically."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "For example."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Imagine how ABSOLUTELY dead
    the game would be right now if mag and glom were on the same side."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Yeah, I'd not log in for weeks honestly."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "A rough example would be to do something that encourages the weaker orgs to
    band together against the stronger one."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "We've tried that."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Let's put it another way. Everytime someone asks how
    their class works, if I don't know, I should say, "If you don't get an answer" Issue yourself?"

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Hehe."

  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 891 Transcendent
    Someone powerful says, "Unfortunately we can't comment on the Scorpion book right this second - but
    certainly, we want to encourage you to produce scholarly works, we do not want you to feel like you
    can't publish them. If an error was made in the past, then I'm sorry for that. I can tell you that
    we discuss rejecting ANY book now at length, amongst several people of differing viewpoints."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I don't think I understand where you're coming from Steingrim - have you as
    players not figured out how your skills work?"

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says to Talkan, "In this current mech, Serenwilde, Celest
    and Hallifax can't compete against the other three like that."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Well if its such a basic question, hopefully newbie channel works."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "There are players who are uncertain how to pull of
    their instas for instance."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Isn't part of the fun figuring out how things work and what they do?"

    Sir Romaan D'Varden, Empyreal Arbiter says, "Enjoy the rest of the talk."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Yeah guys, we actually ned to wrap."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Need to wrap."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "Most people find fun in getting
    the basic "how to" framework in hints, and then figuring out how to make it work on their own."

    Talkan La'Saet says to Minkahmet, "Gotcha, so if I were able to just pull a lever and try to fix it,
    I would create some RP stuff or whatever that pushes the war into a 4v2 or 5v1, whatever works."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "To Understandable, Someone Powerful. I
    realise it is only a small thing in the vast pile. Thank you all for addressing me."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says to Orael, "Almost *nobody* wants to start
    from scratch."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "We tried making a 4v2."

    Prince Minkahmet D'Varden, the Jade Mantis says, "Thank you all for hosting this honestly."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "But celest didnt want to go
    for it."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "But Glomdoring at least has a core of
    people who go out of their way to teach people."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Right, but we have AB's, player help files etc."

    Talkan La'Saet laughingly says, "Yeah, well that's a toughie."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Thanks, Estarra and Orael for answering our questions. I
    learned a lot."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Most orgs have all that information."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "There's a lot of things that are obfuscated from
    players. Insanity building for instance."

    Someone powerful says, "Books that are rejected take several weeks of long discussion, on average.
    They all get a message explaining the reasons as well. Unfortunately, we cannot otherwise remove the
    book without taking it out of the system altogether, so rejection is the way to go at this time,
    Vatul. Thank you for your patience."

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Obviously I'm pretty biased since I was completely focused on the pvp side of
    the game, but I always felt like the more conflict the healthier the game."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Insanity building isn't really obfuscated."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "There's not been a lot of conflict
    recently."

    Biomancer Kalnid says, "Gonna raise again the issue that that rejection needs to be logged somewhere
    player visible."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "We even introduced more levels on it recently."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "People have mentioned speeding up various
    games & activities."

    Talkan La'Saet looks skeptical and says to Xenthos, "That's what I hear."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "So that there are things going on more
    often."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Mostly because people feel
    that Glomdoring is physically unstoppable, in my experience."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Is it?"

    Someone powerful says, "Thank you all for coming, and for the feedback you've been giving on the
    forums and beyond. It really means a lot to us to see how everyone is rallying behind what we all
    love."

    Talkan La'Saet says to Xenthos, "But remember those amazing village battles, even the ones without
    pvp? So many good memories just all fighting for the same resource."

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "For some of us who like to let our
    imaginations run a little to our right brains. I appreciate that. Sometimes it can be discouraging
    to know that admin will reject, even after initial acception of something that's been given."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Thats why a bunch of my
    friends stopped playing, and me too."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "I know there was a lot of stuff covered here, and I think we've gotten a
    lot of good feedback. I hope you guys understand we're pretty small in terms of people and resouces
    so getting to some of the issues may take some time."

    Marcella folds her hands before herself complacently, contemplating the unseeable as the air comes
    alive with metallic clangs and the ticking of tiny gears.

    Lady Nightingale Vatul Feyranti, of the Danse Macabre says, "Thank you all, Divine. We care about
    you."

    Talkan La'Saet exclaims, "Uh no, we want everything and we want it now!"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "We can't quest because of
    mobprog, we can't RP because we have no active RP gods, we cant PVP because glom roflstomps, why
    play."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Hopefully that gets better."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Anyway, I think we're pretty open on how things work and what things do. If
    you think something can be better documented or explained, feel free to helpedit or abbug it."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "It takes time for solutions to come through."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "And we can do so."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "I know that bit about RP is
    hyperbolic."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Marcella, "It wasn't that long ago that you had a ton
    of mags just doing what you wanted."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "We dont NEED gods to RP."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Let them work on it, it's going to be great."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Steingrim, "Yeah, as part of
    Glom alliance."

    Spirit Warden Xenthos An'Ryshe, the Ebon Strategist says, "Gods RPing brings life to the game,
    making it seem bigger than just the players."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Steingrim, "It was them
    carrying us."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "Anyway, I do need to run, so again, thank you all for coming and thanks for
    the warm welcome."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Steingrim, "Avu and I both
    saw that and we decided we didn't want to relyo n glom so he had me break the alliance on purpose."
    Estarra thanks Orael profusely.

    Talkan La'Saet says, "Bye y'all."

    You say to Orael, "It was great to meet you, and thanks for talking to us."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says to Marcella, "Count the what half dozen fighters the
    moved there after the alliance broke up?"

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says to Steingrim, "Nicholo quit
    cause of Glom. most of them quit cause of Glom, actually."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Bye Orael!"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Oh shoot I didn't log this."

    Mayor Steingrim, Pathological Outlier says, "Anita needs more credit."

    Initiate to the Tah'vrai, Jarul says, "Why not join Glomdoring?"

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Did someone log this?"

    Biomancer Kalnid says, "Anita's logging."

    You say, "I did yes."

    Orael the Anomaly says, "I hope you at least found my answers understandable at the least."

    Someone powerful says, "I'm sure many people did."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Oh nevermind, an admin did too."

    Chaplain of the Damned, Marcella n'Lochli, Black Fist of Urlach says, "Anita is a beautiful person
    but she isn't exactly top tier and she admits that but I do love her for existing."

    Estarra's mouth turns up as Her face breaks into a smile.

    Talkan La'Saet laughingly says, "Asks a room full of lusternians if someone logged."

    Exemplar Allixea, Knife in the Dark says, "Shout out to the logs!"

    Estarra the Eternal exclaims, "Go Anita!"

    You say, "Ooer."

    Orael waves goodbye.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Ok I have to depart too."

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Thank you for speaking!"

    The force that grips you suddenly loosens, allowing you to emote.
    The cloaking fog burns away.

    Estarra gives the world a smart salute.

    Estarra, the Eternal, sinks into a whirlpool of swirling energies, which disappear in a flash of
    light and colour.


  • ElrynGreythaneElrynGreythane Member Posts: 114 Apprentice
    Thanks for posting this, @Anita, and thanks to the admin for hosting it! B)

    I couldn't be there myself (it was 8am on a work day for me), but I'd love to ask a few questions if possible! Yes, these are all pretty selfish, and I'm aware that I tend to have incredibly unpopular/annoying perspectives usually - so I'm okay with a response that basically says "no, you weirdo".

    1. Context: One of the things that I find most frustrating about this game compared to others I can play is the constant reliance on accumulative design rather than pro/con choices (outside of combat skills), such as the way item purchaseables tend to give stacking buffs and skills and advantages, the huge number of different tradeskill items and consumables that should all be active during combat, or the way that 'getting better' at PvE content is stacking more damage and more criticals. I know there was talk of making purchaseables like wonderitems cheaper and more available, but honestly that gives me more of a sick feeling than nerfs would, because it is reinforcing that these stacking advantages should become even more 'baseline' for fairness considerations.

      Question: Do the Lusternian admin have any willingness/ability to consider reworking artifact stacking and item stacking more generally? For example, only allow x points worth of artifact enhancements to be active at one time, so that the value of those enhancements remain in having options available, but it's not such an endless stacking race overall? Maybe on the non-artifact item side, something like making it a choice between high resistance armour/shields, or highly flexible (quick) armour, or magically enhanced armour, etc?

    2. Context: The 'feel' of a thriving, populated world is hard to get right. I like the suggestions about having mobs possessed more often for interaction, but obviously that's entirely dependent on admin having time and inclination to do so. Having reasons to go and visit shared spaces is equally good, but it can be hard to come up with motivations to get players like myself out of manses and nexii rooms without just making new loitering lobbies (like nexii tend to be) - not to mention that cross-nation interaction is heavily discouraged by the mechanics. It's also very demoralising to log in and find you are the only person visible in your guild or city, and often in the world generally (because of so many ways of hiding presence).

      Question: Do you have any ideas about how the 'feel' of how many players are actually online, and the chances for interaction between them, could be improved? Is there any way we could separate needing to conceal what a player is doing and where for conflict/combat purposes, and the simple visibility of a diverse playerbase in-game? More so than the current approach of '23 people are apparently here but aside from the 2 that are shown everyone else might as well be bots or afk'.

    3. Context: I usually hate PvP combat in games, so am pretty interested in what sort of end-game mechanics and systems might be available to someone who is much more interested in the 'world' stuff - economy, NPC factions and lore, etc. Unfortunately, a lot of the intricate systems in this area seem (to my inexperienced eye at least) to be hugely complicated to get into but easily gamed and therefore not that engaging in the long term, or simply not fleshed out enough to throw oneself into. Tradeskills have plenty of customisation and various items, but the market for almost all of them seems to have collapsed into cost-price or below, and the customisation options are almost entirely cosmetic - meaning whatever you come up with isn't really going to be any more appealing unless someone really loves your description of that item with the identical stats as a hundred others. While there are definitely levers for the economy at a nation level (comms quests, conflict quests, I assume alliances), these all seem to be a significant grind (bleh) only to get your nation ahead of others slightly. Choosing to align yourself with any sort of faction is very narrowly defined along nation lines - there's a choice of guild, but order is pretty much set by nation, and you can't really work up reputation with the gnomes of the facility, or whatever.

      Question: Where do you think Lusternia's economy and related non-combat world systems is currently weakest, in terms of opportunity for capturing player attention long-term? If you are willing to look at the economy and crafting and so on at a high level, are you more receptive to large rework proposals of existing economic mechanics, or additional mechanics that provide new things for players to do and integrate back into the systems we already have? What are some guidelines or absolute rules that you think have to be followed in terms of any economy changes - if you have any?
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,443 Transcendent
    I couldn't be there myself (it was 8am on a work day for me)
    This really is why there were suggestions for more open feedback methods. The forums don't get everyone same as meetings like this.
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 184 Adept
    @Orael
    "Orael the Anomaly says, "Do people give up because it's too complex or because they feel like they
    can't compete?""

    (Everything below is just my personal thoughts, I have not polled any other players about this.)

    I'd say both.

    The combat seems overly and needlessly complicated. We now have a bunch of afflictions that are cured automatically by server side curing. What is the point? You have a system to put on an affliction and a system to take it right off again. What is gained? What is lost? What is the goal of this system? I don't understand it at all. Is it just a resource drain? You try to wear the other person down, hoping they didn't bring enough dust (or whatever) with them? I really don't get it.

    And, yes, I feel like I can't compete. I am not a coder. I have no interest in learning. I have no interest in modifying my client via someone else's code so that the game can play itself. None of this sounds fun to me.

    So, I guess, the real reason I give up is because none of this sounds fun. And I just wander around, bashing some, influencing some, questing some (when I can find a hook and the quest isn't broken) and hoping to stumble on some RP.
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 505 Expert
    Bairloch said:


    The combat seems overly and needlessly complicated. We now have a bunch of afflictions that are cured automatically by server side curing. What is the point? You have a system to put on an affliction and a system to take it right off again. What is gained? What is lost? What is the goal of this system? I don't understand it at all. Is it just a resource drain? You try to wear the other person down, hoping they didn't bring enough dust (or whatever) with them? I really don't get it.

    This isn't fundamentally a problem with too much complexity though, it's the exact opposite. 
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 184 Adept
    It is complexity that then cancels itself out. What is the point? Its complexity (that simplifies itself) makes me think I'm missing something. What is it?
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 478 Creator
    Bairloch said:
    @Orael
    "Orael the Anomaly says, "Do people give up because it's too complex or because they feel like they
    can't compete?""

    (Everything below is just my personal thoughts, I have not polled any other players about this.)

    I'd say both.

    The combat seems overly and needlessly complicated. We now have a bunch of afflictions that are cured automatically by server side curing. What is the point? You have a system to put on an affliction and a system to take it right off again. What is gained? What is lost? What is the goal of this system? I don't understand it at all. Is it just a resource drain? You try to wear the other person down, hoping they didn't bring enough dust (or whatever) with them? I really don't get it.

    And, yes, I feel like I can't compete. I am not a coder. I have no interest in learning. I have no interest in modifying my client via someone else's code so that the game can play itself. None of this sounds fun to me.

    So, I guess, the real reason I give up is because none of this sounds fun. And I just wander around, bashing some, influencing some, questing some (when I can find a hook and the quest isn't broken) and hoping to stumble on some RP.

       That's fair enough. I personally think the complexity makes things more fun and interesting and would like to introduce more complexity into curing practices than we currently have.

       I think this is where the player base is important to come in and help explain things. I can tell you that SSC was implemented so those of you that don't know how to code and don't want to code could realistically compete without having to resort to third-party systems and relying on someone else's code. It's to break that barrier and make more combat less reliant on coding ability and more reliant on personal skill. Coding skill certainly still gives you an advantage but hopefully, the advantage isn't as great. 

       Ultimately, I think it's our responsibility as the admin to explain how skills work and what they do, but it's ultimately the player's responsibility to figure out how to use those skills and become successful with them. It's important to look at PvP as competing systems where you have players trying to kill each other while preventing the other one from killing them. At it's base level, if you're just afflicting randomly and your opponent is just curing it off, you're not going to get anywhere, but that's where strategy comes into play.


    Question: Do the Lusternian admin have any willingness/ability to consider reworking artifact stacking and item stacking more generally? For example, only allow x points worth of artifact enhancements to be active at one time, so that the value of those enhancements remain in having options available, but it's not such an endless stacking race overall? Maybe on the non-artifact item side, something like making it a choice between high resistance armour/shields, or highly flexible (quick) armour, or magically enhanced armour, etc?

    Question: Do you have any ideas about how the 'feel' of how many players are actually online, and the chances for interaction between them, could be improved? Is there any way we could separate needing to conceal what a player is doing and where for conflict/combat purposes, and the simple visibility of a diverse playerbase in-game? More so than the current approach of '23 people are apparently here but aside from the 2 that are shown everyone else might as well be bots or afk'.

    Question:
    Where do you think Lusternia's economy and related non-combat world systems is currently weakest, in terms of opportunity for capturing player attention long-term? If you are willing to look at the economy and crafting and so on at a high level, are you more receptive to large rework proposals of existing economic mechanics, or additional mechanics that provide new things for players to do and integrate back into the systems we already have? What are some guidelines or absolute rules that you think have to be followed in terms of any economy changes - if you have any?

    1) I think overall, we're willing to at least look and consider anything. There's a lot more considerations we have to make, such as priorities, time etc but at the end of the day we're willing to at least consider it. As an example of this, the overhaul introduced the current bodyscan system for buffs/maluses. It used to be you could endlessly stack buffs and get obsence resistances and health, but we implemented the buff system to cap it. One con about it though is that I think we've allowed it to be too easy to maximize everything.

    2) This is something that's been discussed at length but no decision has been made on how to address it. It would be good to make Lusternia at least feel more active.

    3) I'm not really sure how to answer this question. For me personally, I think healthy conflict is good and we should aim to have more goals in regards to conflict. Fighting for something is usually more interesting and fun than fighting to fight. I'd like to introduce more of that. Again, I think we're willing to at least look and consider anything though, even if that's economic changes, or what have you.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,036 Transcendent
    The point is so that you do not HAVE to do what you say you do not want to do ("write a system to play the game for me by curing or import someone else's code to do that").

    Combat is a system of applying afflictions to overwhelm the other person's defenses, trying to get them to the point of death.  You have a curing system so you can actually defend yourself without need for code and do not just instantly die (you can figure out how to build an offense, or just how to run away).

    The options are 1) Write your own defense code or use someone else's, 2) Have the game do it for you, or 3) Have no combat skills at all (that will make skillsets reaaaaaally empty).

    SSC simply levels the playing field so everyone can work on the offense side without having to code for the defensive.  You can script the offensive a lot or just do aliases for speed, up to you.

    You don't have to participate in combat if you don't want to!  But for people who do who are not coders, SSC is a huge game changer that allows them to more readily participate in a core part of the game.
    image
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 184 Adept
    Xenthos said:
    The point is so that you do not HAVE to do what you say you do not want to do ("write a system to play the game for me by curing or import someone else's code to do that").

    Combat is a system of applying afflictions to overwhelm the other person's defenses, trying to get them to the point of death.  You have a curing system so you can actually defend yourself without need for code and do not just instantly die (you can figure out how to build an offense, or just how to run away).

    The options are 1) Write your own defense code or use someone else's, 2) Have the game do it for you, or 3) Have no combat skills at all (that will make skillsets reaaaaaally empty).

    SSC simply levels the playing field so everyone can work on the offense side without having to code for the defensive.  You can script the offensive a lot or just do aliases for speed, up to you.

    You don't have to participate in combat if you don't want to!  But for people who do who are not coders, SSC is a huge game changer that allows them to more readily participate in a core part of the game.
    I'm still having problems understanding. Mainly the highlighted paragraph. What is the point? If the system cures the afflictions you apply, why bother to apply? It's just going to be cured out automatically. What is the point of a system that negates itself?
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,036 Transcendent
    Bairloch said:
    Xenthos said:
    The point is so that you do not HAVE to do what you say you do not want to do ("write a system to play the game for me by curing or import someone else's code to do that").

    Combat is a system of applying afflictions to overwhelm the other person's defenses, trying to get them to the point of death.  You have a curing system so you can actually defend yourself without need for code and do not just instantly die (you can figure out how to build an offense, or just how to run away).

    The options are 1) Write your own defense code or use someone else's, 2) Have the game do it for you, or 3) Have no combat skills at all (that will make skillsets reaaaaaally empty).

    SSC simply levels the playing field so everyone can work on the offense side without having to code for the defensive.  You can script the offensive a lot or just do aliases for speed, up to you.

    You don't have to participate in combat if you don't want to!  But for people who do who are not coders, SSC is a huge game changer that allows them to more readily participate in a core part of the game.
    I'm still having problems understanding. Mainly the highlighted paragraph. What is the point? If the system cures the afflictions you apply, why bother to apply? It's just going to be cured out automatically. What is the point of a system that negates itself?
    Because you use power / special moves to apply them at a faster rate than the system can cure them, or you use other afflictions to slow down the rate of cure.  You have to learn your offense and how to use it to outpace the curing.  That is how text-based combat works (it is always going to be scripted to some degree, there is nothing like Blizzard's / Valve's anti scripting team -- or the budget either).  You use burst to get an advantage.

    The difference is that instead of forcing people to code or buy / otherwise acquire scripts, it is built in so everyone who wants it has the same baseline.  Then we can balance around that baseline instead of the old "Well your system is just bad, there is no issue with the skill!" discussions we used to have.
    image
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,036 Transcendent
    I am going to try something.  It may be a terrible, but let's see!

    Imagine a high-tech future.  Combat involves personal protective fields, and various ways to overload / get past / disable said fields.  There are many different kinds of weaponry, but their net effects boil down to certain limited end results (four types of overload on the shield equaling the four aff chains).

    Everyone has an artificial intelligence that handles modulating / refreshing this barrier for them, because it is a super complicated task and doing it by hand would take all your attention (and you would still fall behind).

    For offense, things are less restricted.  Your goal is to put a load on the other person, and come up with ways to reduce their impact on your own defenses (hindering of various kinds).  You might offload some of your offense to an AI as well, but it is not as needed... and the AI available may not be flexible enough to handle all the use cases it needs to, anyways (different for everyone you face).  You could spend a lot of time tweaking one, but the edge granted is a whole lot less than the difference between someone who has an untended barrier vs. someone who has their "curing" active.

    So now combat comes down to your ability to overwhelm the other person, mitigate / dampen their offense so they cannot do the same to you, and various other "dirty tricks" that otherwise go around it and end up with you or your target being dead.
    image
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 184 Adept
    My lack of PvP experience is showing. I was unaware that you could go faster than the system can remove it. I assumed both applying and removing worked off the same balance/equilibrium functions.
    So we have the system automating defense, but we create our own offense, and that's good? Like I said, I don't know. I don't understand. And it does not intrigue me.
    Remember, this stems from Orael's question. And despite the system being less "complex" with SSC, the concepts behind it are still fairly complex for someone who hasn't "grown up" in it. Though I've played off-and-on for several years, Lusternia is still my first MUD, and I still have a lot to learn.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,036 Transcendent
    Applying generally goes off of Equilibrium / Balance (sometimes with passive effects too).  Curing uses different things entirely, otherwise you would be stuck either healing OR attacking (so whomever attacked first would basically win because the other person is stuck turtling forever).

    And yes, crafting your own offense is good, otherwise why have combat at all?  You need human involvement somewhere, and the offense is where it's at.  It is nowhere near as complex as curing, but it is a fair bit more nuanced (curing works pretty much the same for everyone, but there are tons of different offenses; each class has its own, and some classes have multiple routes they could take themselves, too).

    But all a person needs to do is learn the offense for their class, not for every class in the game, to be effective (eventually learning other class' offenses is important for knowing when to run, hinder, or other choices, but that is all part of the play/counterplay).

    And I already said that it is all right if combat does not intrigue you, but based on what you have said you would not like it any better if you had to code your own curing on top of everything else, so I am not sure why you are so confused by SSCs availability.  Even for hunting (no PvP at all) SSC lets you get on with it without going coding.

    That is where the game started, everyone had to do their own, and that was a significant overhead / requirement which just no longer exists.
    image
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,036 Transcendent
    Also @Bairloch :
    I am a person who does not enjoy combat for the sake of combat most of the time.  I will show up to help my team.  Maybe a couple times a RL year I join a raid because I feel like it, but for the most part I am a team player.

    I had a custom system.  Every time that something changed I had to go code it in.  Eventually the time investment there got prohibitive, and made participation even for the bits I did very difficult.  Keeping up with everything took a lot of work!  Other people got around that by purchasing a set of scripts, which someone else had to maintain for them.

    SSC took that whole thing out for everyone.  Defense was already fully automated, but now it is no longer a burden on the players to keep up but instead is built right into the game.

    It means that if at some point you decide you want to give it a shot, you can do so without having to go find something to keep you alive.  All you have to do is figure out your own offense, which is a far lower barrier for entry (still a good chunk of work though!).

    And if you stay uninterested?  That really is a-okay too, we need people who do other stuff as well!  Combat is a core element of the game, but obviously not the only one.
    image
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 184 Adept
    I'm trying to answer Orael's question. That's why I keep going, already knowing that it's ok if I'm not into combat. I'm trying to find reasons for the way I, and many others, feel that the combat is too complex or that I am unable to compete.
    I also feel guilty about benefiting from all the work the combatants do, and the only help I ever give is flying crew on a ship a couple times and siphoning. I want to be able to do more, but I feel like there's no way I could ever help in PvP. And, unfortunately for me, everything revolves around that. I couldn't even siphon effectively since I didn't have triggers set up for it and didn't really know how to go about it.
    So that's why I'm still responding. I'm not trying to convince anyone or convince myself of anything. I'm trying to understand the way I react to the game, so that @Orael and @Estarra can have the information they need to do what they need to do. I can't design systems like @ElrynGreythane or break existing systems down like you do @Xenthos , so I'm just trying to do what I can.
  • ElrynGreythaneElrynGreythane Member Posts: 114 Apprentice
    edited October 2018
    Bairloch said:
    I'm trying to answer Orael's question. That's why I keep going, already knowing that it's ok if I'm not into combat. I'm trying to find reasons for the way I, and many others, feel that the combat is too complex or that I am unable to compete.
    I also feel guilty about benefiting from all the work the combatants do, and the only help I ever give is flying crew on a ship a couple times and siphoning. I want to be able to do more, but I feel like there's no way I could ever help in PvP. And, unfortunately for me, everything revolves around that. I couldn't even siphon effectively since I didn't have triggers set up for it and didn't really know how to go about it.
    So that's why I'm still responding. I'm not trying to convince anyone or convince myself of anything. I'm trying to understand the way I react to the game, so that @Orael and @Estarra can have the information they need to do what they need to do. I can't design systems like @ElrynGreythane or break existing systems down like you do @Xenthos , so I'm just trying to do what I can.
    For what it's worth, I have a very similar mindset towards PvP as yourself, @Bairloch. A lot of what you've been saying resonates with my approach to games and Lusternia particularly. Having said that, while I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of combat balancing, I do really like the depth and flavour of many of the combat skills and specialisations.

    And clearly I can't design systems any more than anyone else here - but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the attempt at expanding/improving the options and systems outside of PvP combat!

    Edit: I guess to also answer @Orael's question myself, I'd say I usually give up on PvP because I don't think I'll ever be that competitive. I don't really think combat needs to be simplified (overcoming complexity can be fun - though maybe the itemization could be simplified a bit), but in order to be 'good' I think there are certain baseline player skills and in-game investments that I just don't see myself ever really achieving in a way that would lead to success. I could probably get to a point of surviving if I really threw myself into it, but that doesn't sound like a very enticing reward for the huge amount of time and money it would take to get there. I can instead enjoy the rewards of bashing, or influencing, or crafting, or aetherspace with much lower 'work' to get to a point where I am getting something out of it - and I'm not directly pitting myself against players who have thousands of dollars worth of combat-relevant enhancements, 15 years worth of practicing and training, and so on. On the other hand, I'm not likely to enjoy PvP that much anyway, so I'm not sure there's much that could change in that respect.
    Post edited by ElrynGreythane on
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,443 Transcendent
    edited October 2018
    Orael said:
       Ultimately, I think it's our responsibility as the admin to explain how skills work and what they do, but it's ultimately the player's responsibility to figure out how to use those skills and become successful with them. It's important to look at PvP as competing systems where you have players trying to kill each other while preventing the other one from killing them. At it's base level, if you're just afflicting randomly and your opponent is just curing it off, you're not going to get anywhere, but that's where strategy comes into play.

    I think there's a significant gap between what's explained and the understanding needed to figure out the basic strategies though, one which is probably contributing heavily to people not getting into combat.

    MMOs typically have you using your PvE skills which in turn means your learning about those skills, rotations, and strategies is also coming from the levelling experience which is generally designed around you slowly getting access to things and constantly using them. (FFXIV stands out as an exception, but that's because they rounded their PvP down to like 10 skills per class, but they still mechanically reflect your PvE experience)
    Lusternia doesn't have this, if you don't PvP you have a significant list of skills you never interact with. 

    A way to bridge that gap could be for some more official "how tos" and the like. Maybe some thing where you can look up any potential kit and get a basic thing like...

    Taking like old MD strat

    Class: Moondancer Hexen

    Basic info:
    You want to get your target asleep, you have hexes and pixies for this. When asleep it's easier to drain their mana with succumb to set up for toad. (and so on)

    Solo tips:
    * A single sleep hex or pixie hit will remove insomnia but they'll stay awake
    * Pookas are really handy, even necessary, against experienced players
    * etc
    * etc

    Group tips:
    * Hit em all with hexes??


    May also help with the changes to envoys as it'd provide a clearer focus/design goal for each class, which isn't always necessarily that apparent for everyone.
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 560 Fabled
    Saran said:
    A way to bridge that gap could be for some more official "how tos" and the like. Maybe some thing where you can look up any potential kit and get a basic thing like...
    Historically that's been an org pvp clan sort of thing to do. Mag's got basic stuff in the city's, and some more specific - but more outdated, miss u Silvanus - stuff for nihilists specifically in the old nihilist combat clan.
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 478 Creator
    Saran said:
    Orael said:
       Ultimately, I think it's our responsibility as the admin to explain how skills work and what they do, but it's ultimately the player's responsibility to figure out how to use those skills and become successful with them. It's important to look at PvP as competing systems where you have players trying to kill each other while preventing the other one from killing them. At it's base level, if you're just afflicting randomly and your opponent is just curing it off, you're not going to get anywhere, but that's where strategy comes into play.

    I think there's a significant gap between what's explained and the understanding needed to figure out the basic strategies though, one which is probably contributing heavily to people not getting into combat.

    MMOs typically have you using your PvE skills which in turn means your learning about those skills, rotations, and strategies is also coming from the levelling experience which is generally designed around you slowly getting access to things and constantly using them. (FFXIV stands out as an exception, but that's because they rounded their PvP down to like 10 skills per class, but they still mechanically reflect your PvE experience)
    Lusternia doesn't have this, if you don't PvP you have a significant list of skills you never interact with. 

    A way to bridge that gap could be for some more official "how tos" and the like. Maybe some thing where you can look up any potential kit and get a basic thing like...

    Taking like old MD strat

    Class: Moondancer Hexen

    Basic info:
    You want to get your target asleep, you have hexes and pixies for this. When asleep it's easier to drain their mana with succumb to set up for toad. (and so on)

    Solo tips:
    * A single sleep hex or pixie hit will remove insomnia but they'll stay awake
    * Pookas are really handy, even necessary, against experienced players
    * etc
    * etc

    Group tips:
    * Hit em all with hexes??


    May also help with the changes to envoys as it'd provide a clearer focus/design goal for each class, which isn't always necessarily that apparent for everyone.

    Right, that kind of stuff I think is ultimately up to the players to sort out. I don't think the admin should be telling you how to play your class because the admin don't participate in the day to day stuff so those that are familiar with the more nuances of combat should be the ones developing those kind of how to's.  Again, I think there's a significant difference between explaining how a skill works vs explaining how a skill is used. I think us as admin should be responsible for explaining how something works via AB's and HELP files, where the players should be explaining how to use a skill via CHELP, GHELP and CLHELPS or books or whatever.
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