The 'essence' problem and the hunt for ideas to solve it

AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flightMember Posts: 1,166 Transcendent
Hello,

I wanted to talk a little with everyone about the problem of 'essence' and the lack of consistent application of that, aside of dying. For someone who has a part of herself that just likes to see numbers go up ( when am in a grinding mood ), it's rather devastating once you hit the essence cap and things go quickly to give you less and less.

As such, I would really love to have a few ways in which essence would have actual applications to useful things. Maybe not huge amounts, but still considerably. Ascendants sure have the upper hand there, as they are able to use their essence in a number of ways. I would love for the bulk of us getting some things as well to use our essence with ( other then dying that is ).

Sadly though, I do not have the slightest idea how this could be accomplished and would love to hear your ideas and if you feel similarly about it. :-)

Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 

Comments

  • TremulaTremula Banished Quasiroyal Member Posts: 2,645 Transcendent
    I'd love to see a myriad of role-play/fluff powers released for essence costs instead of credits. They have no negative drawback and you aren't forced into them unless you want them. If it wasn't nearly five in the morning, I'd have examples, but I really would love to see ways to invest the essence you grind into making yourself more obviously a step above other mortals. Like...I don't know, ways to customise your regular says akin to the way you can customise shouts? More non-combat things to imbue your mounts with or change small things about their appearance? Like a million essence channeled directly into your mount's wings would be enough to metamorph them into a different (maybe even random) appearance. It's an untapped goldmine of essence dumping that would make me want to have more than 7/8 million essence at any given time.
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,206 Transcendent
    I'd kinda like to see, at least, some of the ascendant powers moved down to a point that demigods can access them. 

    I'd also love, if we have a pvp overhaul, to see some kind of "support" system added in to the game. The nexus mecha didn't really work, but it could be cool if demigods and above who aren't great on the front lines could do some stuff to help out. This could also have essence costs associated with it similar to how the domoths drain you.

    And because I always want manse upgrades, maybe some kind of npc culties? You could spend essence to attract them with maybe really basic customisation (like race/typecasts and that's it)

    Of course, another option would be to create a "demigod" skill similar to ascendance except focused on fanning your flame further and could have regular essence costs associated with the skills.
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  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Why is there a cap?
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight Member Posts: 1,166 Transcendent
    Breandryn said:
    Why is there a cap?

    Some of us can amass essence very very quickly. I think it would simply blow out of proportion very very fast.  Still, even without the cap, the problem would persist, as there's simply nothing to do with your essence after a rather short timespan.
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,206 Transcendent
    Oh, I nearly forgot my usual.

    We could always just release the final archetype as a demigod class that you spend essence on :P
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  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Isn't that just a number, though? The other IRE games let you bash indefinitely, now, so if they just tweaked the display it shouldn't be an issue? Have it start after 100m or something, turn that into level 110 or something.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    Let's not throw actual ascendant powers at Demigods, they already have ways of obtaining them, one being through really hard work, and suddenly letting everyone have access cheapens them.

    Things like flying I can get behind, the free perks as opposed to actual powers.

    Would love to see choice powers have a zero weight cost and give a custom variant to all types that do have weight, they're unique to you after all, that cost considerably more essence.


    Otherwise I'd like to see things like a reversal of dessicate, the ability to preserve certain items (I get the feeling we'd be denied a simple "everything option") for an initial cost + daily upkeep. Said item cannot decay as long as the power is upheld 

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,206 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    The goal is to make us feel like gods...ish which is probably why it becomes essence at that point. That said maybe instead of those being levels they could be "refinements".

    Maybe when you've got a certain amount of essence invested in powers you can perform a refinement which would "level you up" as a demigod, maybe each refinement can be done in a domothean realm and could give you access to one power from that domoth per refinement performed there.
    That'd be 27 refinements before you got everything that an ascendant gets for free. You could perhaps add in refinements that give you additional weight if necessary, with a cap on that which makes the artifact still worth it.

    As a note,this probably only delays the issue for a while, but people will eventually get to a point where they've got everything.
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  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight Member Posts: 1,166 Transcendent
    I only used ascendants as an example, as well known ascendant powers have a per use essence cost while, aside of a few really minor things, we have no demigod powers you can use your essence with. I do like the idea of RP powers a lot, having things like that would make it interesting to use essence on. I wouldn't mind having functional things either.

    Having different 'steps' of demigod, which you gain by paying a set essence cost sounds like an interesting idea, though, just not sure what you'd get for taking those steps.
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    We're not suppose to feel like gods, gods are gods and can swat us down without breaking a sweat.

    You're suppose to feel better than the average mortal, which you are, as you can never truly die. Ascendants are suppose to be unique, the seal bearers and vernal demigods are the limited exceptions that have such a connection to the domoth powers.

    Rather than trying to just make Ascendant powers accessible to everyone (which is what Saran seems to be getting at) just create new essence drains for Demigods (and Ascendants) alike.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight Member Posts: 1,166 Transcendent
    I don't think we should focus on the ascendant powers at all, though I must admit that one of the easiest ways to create a consistent essence drain is to use it for bashing ;)

    Apart of RP powers, maybe some sort of relocation powers may be interesting? like using essence to teleport to specific places that you'd usually need / want to get to? Main problem here is to not interfere with all the artifacts that exist for that.

    I personally could also get behind some nonsensical things like animating lifeless objects into temporary walking / controlable creatures. Aeldra would totally walk around temporarily animating flowers ( now I have that picture stuck in my head... waaaah ). The way that could work, would be, you take a non quest object item and point your essence at it. After a long balance / channel it show signs of life and start moving on it's own, turning into kind of a minature living thing. You'd have limited control over it's action. Naturally wouldn't have any use in combat, but maybe could have some minor impact onto influencing / bashing if it really -needs- an impact ( I feel like it don't, just one of those random things I'd probably end up using because it's cute).

    Idea's I general struggle with ( thus this thread ) :wink:
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • SazSaz Member Posts: 179 Master
    edited October 2016
    A temporary blessing that increases your knowledge of a chosen skillset for an hour, similar to how truefavors work but limited to one instead of all. At the cost of 500.000 essence per use (Or more if godmins rather choose so.) Only one blessing of this type can be active at a time.

    I for one would make constant use of such a blessing and the huge cost would certainly keep me on my toes. 
     "Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."

    -Kilian
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    Hmm wonder item that gives buffs similar to the candy stuff. Like wonderlolipop
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    As an ascendant, I have no issue with making ascendant powers available to everyone. The tiered weight costs alone are sufficient enough that I don't feel like it would be cheapened. Demigods would still be limited to their 50 weight.

    The only people that may feel like it's 'cheapened'  would be sealbearers who get access to a power, but they already get enough bonuses from just having the seal that I think they can suck it up. 



    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    Oh, yeah, also down with choice powers and RP flair to cost zero weight. I do understand why it does cost weight (limits usuage, so it's just that much more unique).

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • UlalahUlalah Member Posts: 86 Adept
    I'm not a demigod (yet), but as someone who /really/ loves the RP aspect of things (and thus, wants all the customizable refinements), I think making the RP-related stuff (since a lot of people take those anyways) cost no weight but still cost essence would be fabulous. The non-demigods already can't get those things, so it seems like it's unique enough, especially if you then have things like the really customized ones (though I suppose those, being that they need to be reviewed, could still have a weight if we really needed it to.)

    Yay, essence sinks.
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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    Breandryn said:
    Isn't that just a number, though? The other IRE games let you bash indefinitely, now, so if they just tweaked the display it shouldn't be an issue? Have it start after 100m or something, turn that into level 110 or something.
    I don't think this was ever really answered. 

    There was a problem with people constantly raiding enemy territories, with no real way to dissuade them. So, a large (2mil) essence penalty for dying in enemy territory was created. Then, it was still an issue because some people had massive essence stocks, so the caps were instituted to make that harder. In other words, instead of disabling people from raiding to much with a direct method like a lockout, a 'boredom tax' was instituted such that you had to grind to afford to raid. That's why high essences are a 'problem', they were/are the only way to curb incessant raiding. 

    There's also a problem that I don't really agree is a problem in that new thing that cost essence are calculated by how much they will impact the highest essence earners for... some reason.

    A good first step to essence sinks would be to make the existing demigod powers... useful. Things like upgrading dessicate to not JUST work on items in your inventory and so on. There are previous threads on this topic that might be good sources of alternative ideas.

    Beyond that, one thing I think that would go over well would be to create areas that demigods can build using their essence, like Havens.  
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    It seems like part of the fix to the root problem would be lifting the caps and creating a better fix for the raiding, then. People could then bash as high as they want and that would fix the problem of people hitting cap and feeling like progression ends. Extra powers could be added as desired and needed, without as much pressure, as the root issue would be addressed.

    What happened to that talk a month or two ago about creating raid alternatives like Imperian's shardfall? That seems like it would fix a few issues.
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,628 Transcendent
    Essence loss from raiding has since been adjusted from the 2million loss from deaths in enemy territory. Personally, I like that there is a cap. This has definitely put a stop/disincentive to people just aetherbashing to infinity. A lot of ideas thus far comes across as wishy washy wishful thinking/what-ifs. Again: we're mortals, period. What has been asked for thus far, barring a few ideas, borders on incentives that admins have for playing god-roles. The essence market idea has been asked for time and time again since I was a noob and it doesn't really surprise me to see it pop up every now and then from the latest greenhorn demigods.
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    Well I may be new to demi in Lusternia, but I bashed up to like 170-something in Aetolia. Some of us just enjoy bashing and seeing numbers move. It's a relaxing way to zone out sometimes. I can see why people want the cap lifted.

    Edit: It's also good for the game. Bashers tend to buy artifacts (and credits) to make their bashing better.
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