IDEA - Choosing a Side: Cities, Combat and RP. Limitations and Possible Solutions.

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Comments

  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    Faeie said:
    Maligorn said:
    You're blowing this up into an extreme.

    My solution to you: Raziela's dogma includes love for every single being, ever, even those that are Tainted. While not perfect, you can use that as a springboard of IC justification to tolerate and interact with other people of every single org. The only thing stopping you isn't Celest, or the Celestines, and especially not the Supernals. It's you. Modify your character's beliefs if they're so restrictive. You're allowed to do that. It's your character.
    I can't do that though, because Raziela is only one of five. The whole point of the org is to follow all five of them. And if Methrenton can do whatever he wants and call for Genocide whenever without any of the other four getting in the way then what's the point of being part of that org?

    Yes I understand a lot of what I'm saying is a personal issue. I realize this. It comes from a profound need to be true to myself and so it makes me incredibly uncomfortable to represent a cause that doesn't represent me. What you're telling me to "adjust" from my character is to be more zealous about it, that's what you're telling me. Stop doubting, just close your eyes and keep following your org without questioning. And they're terrified this is gonna get them kicked from any organization they might join because they're all so goddamn single-minded.
    See, you are taking an extremely narrow view on what it means to RP in each organisation. Nobody is telling you to become more zealous. In fact, we're telling you the exact opposite. Just cherry-pick the aspects of Celestian (or whatever org you want to play in) RP that you enjoy and you can ignore the rest (within reason). My own character was CL of Hallifax but is one of the least orderly citizens in Hallifax. It works for me, because I'm not allowing the things I don't enjoy about Hallifax to restrict the things that I do enjoy.
  • AkatrielAkatriel Member Posts: 35 Adept
    It sounds like Celest might not be the org for you, really. I'm not overly familiar with their single-mindedness, but it sounds bothersome to you. There are still 5 other orgs that might be more open to your type of RP? Hallifax in particular doesn't seem to be hung up on the whole "order" thing as much as you might think (at least if my experience as a frog whose motto is basically "Logic Is Dumb" is anything to go by. I've even had Isune basically say I'm not as special a snowflake as I pretend to be for that one). I've seen a vast array of RP styles here, so I don't know that you'd be turned away for even wanting to be a more or less neutral party. And if so, hey, challenging RP.
  • FaeieFaeie Member Posts: 70 Capable
    So yes absolutely that's a personal struggle but the ways I'm offered to deal with it are extremely few. Again I don't think the cities are WRONG in their design, they're wonderful. I agree that me having this deeply upsetting problem is a good thing. But I really feel the game could give more options to explore this and that it'd be good for the game, even.

    In the example I gave of a neutral city, I don't think that would be the "perfect city boy am I glad I'm in the right city and every other loser that isn't an Intellectual[tm] like me is in one of the other loser zealot cities". It'd barely be a city at all, as I said. It'd merely be a common ground. But really, if Estarra thinks all the cities are shades of grey on purpose, then why not have a neutral grey? If it comes to the city not being perfect I'm sure there's seeeeveral ways to make it less than utopic. It'd be a great place for Novices to start at, too.
  • FaeieFaeie Member Posts: 70 Capable
    Maligorn said:
    So actually it's not a personal issue, but your rather limited view on other Celestians and their roleplay tendencies (are you really trying to say they're all zealots and singleminded, lol). Methrenton doesn't have some authority over the other Supernals. Where are you even getting all of this from, because it sounds like you're speculating on what may be instead of what has actually happened.

    Follow all 5 Supernals, sure. But there's --literally-- a skill in Celestialism that allows you to deepbond to a particular Supernal, which sets the stage for the one you hold in the highest esteem and follow most closely.
    Bro I'm a Celestine, I know this. If I thought they were single-minded zealots I wouldn't have joined. But I've heard from several sources Mathrenton isn't limited by any of the other Supernals either. So he has done things in the past without being tempered by any of the rest. I heard this IC from several sources, don't try to explain Celestialism to me.

    Anita said:
    EDIT: Also, I understand that as a player it doesn't sit with you right, but..you're playing a character. It's meant to be roleplay. I would be lying if I said Anita is nothing like me, she is in some way, but there are other parts of her that are 100% a character and a lot of the RP/decisions I made with Anita would have been purely RP - I wouldn't make those decisions IRL and sometimes I'm sitting here saying 'WTF - did I just do that? Did I say that? IS this happening?" Sometimes you gotta take everything with a pinch of salt and suck it up. Serenwilde isn't perfect, but you're not berated for not getting into combat or wanting to do other things with your time.
    I just really hate sucking it up what can I say. I don't find a reason for it. It's not fun, or enriching, or more interesting. It's limiting. I don't want Faeie to be less morally sound than me, if anything that's the one aspect I share with them the most. Or unsound! Maybe I suck at all of this and I'm a horrible human being. I'd like to realize this one day if it's true. I LIKE learning from my character's experiences. They're different from me in a number of ways I won't bother listing, but since the beginning, reinforced by joining Wei's order, I wanted them to bring a voice of balance and understanding. I'm not changing that.
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    Also consider Bleuu. She plays up the Raziela aspect of loving everyone, including those who are tainted, and she is the CL of Celest. I am sure there have been CLs in the past who have been more like a crusader and ones who don't even even care for the Supernals at all. Being a Celestian doesn't mean you have to follow every aspect of every Supernal.
  • AkatrielAkatriel Member Posts: 35 Adept
    Faeie said:
     since the beginning, reinforced by joining Wei's order, I wanted them to bring a voice of balance and understanding. I'm not changing that.
    That sounds like a very awesome goal and one you should RP the heck out of. I just don't know what stops you from doing that in Celest, or moving to another org that's cool with it? As pointed out, Razeila is love, love for all things, even the Tainted. Elohora is balance, I think? Japhiel is wisdom-ish... okay, I'm not super up on my supernals. But I think you could find a way to turn the inherent biases of the supernals to -your- advantage as a justification for the RP you want. And if people react ICly in a disapproving way, again, conflict is the basis of character movement. Use that as the challenging RP you want.
  • AnitaAnita Member Posts: 769 Transcendent
    But you *can* do that, it's not your fault if someone from a different org doesn't want to interact back at you -- they're entitled to their beliefs also. They're seeing someone come at them from an opposite org who wants to learn about their lore - something of which some orgs and guild hold bloody dear and secretive - if they're so set in their ways, and are RPing it, they can and will ignore you or tell you to go away. And then on the other hand, there are people that will interact back, they'll tell you a little bit here, a little bit there. This would be the same if you were neutral as well. X-org sees you as an outsider, that's how you'll be treated.

  • FaeieFaeie Member Posts: 70 Capable
    Lerad said:
    [Insert long post here]
    This was by far the most insightful comment, thank you for making it.

    And it makes sense. It is unfortunately incredibly saddening to realize this for the reasons I explained ad nauseum in my many replies.

    I'm not sure if what you said about the rest teaming up to eliminate an org that becomes more self-assessing and aware would be completely accurate, I trust it's not inaccurate either though since I'm sure from your words you've given this thought.

    Either way, this creates a really weird dynamic. I'll go ahead and say I accept this for now. I understand the need for this dynamic, it shows understanding on how this truly works. But I don't think it's ideal. That doesn't mean it can be fixed, lots of things can't, and in fact it might be better for the game if it wasn't. But alas, at least I rest assured there WAS something in there. That is certainly what's been making me uncomfortable.

    -Sigh- I need to think about this. Thanks again for all the replies.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,321 Transcendent
    Have you considered getting a clan of like-minded individuals to do your thing together?
  • SluelughSluelugh Member Posts: 37 Apprentice
    edited March 2017
    Technically, Deep Night is a city unto itself. Probably could do something similar. Does tracking warrior require power from a specific nexus?

    Edit: Not that I think the admin should build a Deep Night clone but a player could.
  • TirahTirah Member Posts: 435 Mythical
    Sluelugh said:
    Technically, Deep Night is a city unto itself. Probably could do something similar. Does tracking warrior require power from a specific nexus?

    Edit: Not that I think the admin should build a Deep Night clone but a player could.
    I think monk and tracker need no specific power, might be wrong on monk, never played one.
  • DylaraDylara Member Posts: 1,287 Transcendent
    Maligorn said:
    The only place that's hostile to outsiders whether enemied or not is Glomdoring, and that's because xenophobia is baked in to their lore (even moreso than Serenwilde, imo).

    That being said, there's plenty of diplomatic Glomdorians that wish to spread the glory of the Wyrd through words and demonstrations rather than raw military might.
    Well, you're either beneficial to the Wyrd or you get eaten. Duh.

    Faeie, I can tell you it is possible to have the type of life you would like for your character. It is hard, but it is possible. I did it for years when I first started playing the game. It ultimately got boring for me, because it can be pretty damn limiting at what you can participate in and what you cannot. There are also lots of people who just do not participate in the combat/pvp aspects of this game, including villages and do other things within their org. I think Celest even has a Supernal that just wants to love everything (Raziela? Whatever the little girl one is. It's been forever since I've been on friendly terms with Celest so I can't quite recall what her "thing" is but I do remember it being lovey-dovey for a long time). You can totally roleplay that the way to life in the basin is acceptance of each other, love thy neighbour/enemy, et al. It does not need to be hardcoded in.

    Rogues were built to not be welcome and a Bad Choice for various reasons, some of them good, some of them annoying. All of Lusternia is built around having access to specific skills and more importantly, particular power sources. A neutral city would just be one more organization we just cannot afford to make, because we're already going through factions in order to lower the amount of organizations we have. Like it is super ridiculous how many organizations we have, please no more.



    Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."

    The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
    Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.


  • CrekCrek Member Posts: 234 Fabled
    Sluelugh said:
    Technically, Deep Night is a city unto itself. Probably could do something similar. Does tracking warrior require power from a specific nexus?

    Edit: Not that I think the admin should build a Deep Night clone but a player could.
    Tracking warrior, monk (without boosting?) and druid without a totem specialization are somewhat rogue friendly as they all use any power source. Druid without Stag/Crow melds Hartstone terrain without the Hartstone specific skills.
    The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of 
    depression. I just wanted you to know that."
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,761 Transcendent
    Not to be a snarky asshat (not intentionally), but how the heck long have you been playing? A moderately new character and you're all over trying to brainstorm for factions, tell orgs how they should behave, tell people what their rp should be, and come up with ideas that literally half the player base have probably already thought about. One person  (Richter) even made an aethercity for rogues  (Deepnight). It's been attempted. 


    No offense, but go back to the game and learn more.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • LynnieLynnie Member Posts: 151 Gifted
    Faeie said:
    If Estarra is the only one that apparently realizes and enjoys everything being shades of grey then why can't I join Estarra's Order or something? How else am I supposed to pick a side when they're all equally as viable and equally unsuited for me? How is it that when I understand things as Estarra does I don't have an organization that supports these views?

    Lord @Weiwae 's Order is the closest thing and he still is on New Celest, which means I have to deal with genocidal zealots and hypocritical Supernals.
    I'm not sure what version of Lusternia you're playing if you think that Weiwae likes everyone. He doesn't even like Celest's allies.

    Unless I'm misreading this thread and you're not saying that Weiwae is the only neutral experience you've found.
    The deep, rumbling voice of Weiwae says from within your heart, "I am so happy to hear of your progress, and I thank you for bringing my influence over more shards of My Brother Tae."
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,763 Transcendent
    Celest's sins are just way more apparent than anyone else's.

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  • TamsinTamsin Member Posts: 134 Master
    Shaddus said:
    Not to be a snarky asshat (not intentionally), but how the heck long have you been playing? A moderately new character and you're all over trying to brainstorm for factions, tell orgs how they should behave, tell people what their rp should be, and come up with ideas that literally half the player base have probably already thought about. One person  (Richter) even made an aethercity for rogues  (Deepnight). It's been attempted. 


    No offense, but go back to the game and learn more.
    I'm with Shaddus here. 

    It honestly feels like you're trying to make things more Achaean. That's just not how Lusternia does or likely ever will work. There is no good justification for a truly neutral org as it simply doesn't fit into Lusternia's world view. 

    Your comments about the Supernals feel very outside the box. I was once a Celestine city leader of Celest with a cordial hatred of the Warlady of Magnagora. She was actually invited to my character's wedding for IC reasons I won't go in to here. Other Magnagorans were present also. There are ways and means to get involved with anybody you please as long as you are willing to put in the RP footwork.

    Please consider that perhaps you need more unconventional for your organisation RP to find what you feel fits your character. 

    You're trying to create solutions to what frankly is not a problem.
  • FaeieFaeie Member Posts: 70 Capable
    Shaddus said:
    Not to be a snarky asshat (not intentionally), but how the heck long have you been playing? A moderately new character and you're all over trying to brainstorm for factions, tell orgs how they should behave, tell people what their rp should be, and come up with ideas that literally half the player base have probably already thought about. One person  (Richter) even made an aethercity for rogues  (Deepnight). It's been attempted. 


    No offense, but go back to the game and learn more.
    ... First of all I was asked to help with factions. I helped with factions as best as I could (and I still am trying to help so new Celestian factions are as good as they can be).

    Second of all maybe you're the one feeling a bit attacked here, because I'm just proposing ideas. Thus the title. It's an IDEA. If you have a problem with me talking and discussing ideas then I don't know what to tell you other than grow up.

    I never claimed to know more than ANYONE. Or that my ideas were great. I Never Even Claimed My Ideas Were Good. Thus: Ideas. Not: Best Solution Ever I'm a Hecking Genius.

    You and the rest can chill, I've already heard all the constructive comments I needed from this thread you don't need to pile on with uncalled for posts calling me an idiot.

    God, no wonder no novice stays if you're such assholes to people providing input.
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