I don't suppose you'd have any way to know if someone targeted Selenity while you jailed her, would you, @Yomoigu? Can't hurt to ask.
I didn't
I was more concerned with the one inside the jail than anyone outside of it.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Can't blame you. @Selenity did try to kill two random townies yesterday and got an alarmingly fast amount of traction for it. The argument checks out that you'd want to roleblock her for that reason. Though it seems doing that attracted some Soulless attention, too, apparently.
Though out of curiosity, @Selenity do you trust @Yomoigu or not? Considering he targeted you and Othero's post saying you were the target of Soulless last night.
Similar question for @Othero. Is Selenity being jailed something you'd associate with the "Soulless sense" you received? Or is this, in your view, an indicator someone else tried to target her last night?
------
To clarify, @Shaddus is claiming tracker now, not investigator, yes? I'm torn regarding his lynch train. Lynching him is very much punishing bad play, which coincidentally I used to try and push the Day 1 lynch train on Shaddus. Bad play is a legitimate reason for offing a player, in my book, and outing a few roles unprompted is certainly behavior we shouldn't be rewarding. Particularly if the reasoning is the game got stagnant (?). So I'm not opposed to lynching him on those grounds.
This gets complicated once you consider Luce's investigation has vouched for Shaddus's role, however, as the tracker and as Mugowumpois. I'm inclined to believe Luce's investigation until further notice, so this lynch train is a bit counterproductive.
Hrng. I don't know, honestly. Perhaps Shaddus was converted last night? Hence him throwing all caution to the wind? But even then, why say everything in the open when you can state it comfortably in a night chat? It reads more like a poor townie play than a calculated mafia move, although it's very odd that he painted his power as more investigative than it initially was.
(On my end, an investigator or a tracker would have received the same result with me the night Shaddus saw me "vanish" into the Northern Wastes. So I didn't have reason to know which of the two he was.)
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@Weiwae I'd like to know why your list of suspicious people is what it is. If you find someone suspicious, you should be able to articulate why. This means answering @Fyler and @Phoebus when they say, "Why do you think I'm suspicious?" Additionally, I want to know your thoughts on @Yomoigu, considering his power has some parallels to your own, however incidentally.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Can't blame you. @Selenity did try to kill two random townies yesterday and got an alarmingly fast amount of traction for it. The argument checks out that you'd want to roleblock her for that reason. Though it seems doing that attracted some Soulless attention, too, apparently.
Though out of curiosity, @Selenity do you trust @Yomoigu or not? Considering he targeted you and Othero's post saying you were the target of Soulless last night.
Similar question for @Othero. Is Selenity being jailed something you'd associate with the "Soulless sense" you received? Or is this, in your view, an indicator someone else tried to target her last night?
So I don't particularly trust or distrust Yomoigu. Maybe if the day two fiasco hadn't happened I'd have an opinion on him. But I'm scared to say I trust anyone right now, given my bad track record.
I have no active night powers by the way. I really wasn't trying to get two townies killed. I legit thought they were scum. Then you know, the whole... shindig happened...
If Yomoigu was Soulless and targeted me, I don't know. If there's a Soulless jailer, I don't know. I just know I was safe last night. Maybe Yomo is Soulless, maybe Yomo isn't Soulless. Still don't know.
It's not in your most recent posts. Would you be so kind as to quote the posts you're referring to? (I know why you're suspicious of me, by the way. I'm more curious about the other people in your list.)
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I was suspicious of Portius and Phoebus because I felt like they were working in concert with Vivet, as well as Fyler. My gut is seeing them as a block.
1
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Wasn't Yomigu the one that offered that he had targeted Selenity? Why would he do that if he was the Soulless?
If I am recalling correctly, he did so because Shaddus outed his actions from the last nightphase. Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding the flow of events?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Wasn't Yomigu the one that offered that he had targeted Selenity? Why would he do that if he was the Soulless?
If I am recalling correctly, he did so because Shaddus outed his actions from the last nightphase. Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding the flow of events?
I had to go back and look again but you're right. It was because of Shaddus saying he jailed her.
This is a good point. How could Othero see a soulless target Selenity if Selenity was in jail?
Unvote Vote Yomoigu
One of the reasons I jailed Othero was to see if his power still worked while jailed. This lynch will actually reveal information to us about Yomoigu, Othero and Shaddus, if my vote is correctly placed.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Well let's not forget that @Selenity has confirmed that she was jailed and bound in an essence field.
So that does check out with what @Yomoigu is claiming, and if it's a jailing, that doesn't mean Yomoigu is necessarily the only person who targeted Selenity. It only means anyone else's attempt at targeting her was negated.
What we don't know is if anyone else targeted her, though. It's not possible to know. Since Yomoigu is the only person we know for sure, it's certainly possible he's that Soulless party. But it seems odd that Soulless would choose to jail someone who railroaded two useless lynch trains on Day 2. I'm not positive there would be much to gain from that, unless Selenity was a Soulless herself and they were protecting her from investigation, etc. But I'm not sure I buy that theory.
And there's this lynchpin, of course: this all hinges on whether or not @Othero's information is accurate as well.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I was also trapped in an essence field last night. I'm not sure if it blocked my power last night. I got a message that a Soulless was after Selenity but I don't know which Soulless. That goes against how my power was explained, I should know the Soulless role name.
The wording isn't precise, I'm not sure what "was after" means. However, if Selenity was jailed she couldn't have been targeted at all.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Night 2 Recap:
1. Sylandra - no action
2. Falmiis Dead: Krokano, Elder
3. Lavinya - ??
4. Luce - Investigated Shaddus, who is tracker & Mugowumpois
5. not Celina - ??
6. Ssaliss - ??
7. Lehki - ??
8. Breandryn - tried to give plate to Xeii (failed)
9. Xeii Dead: Meridian, Doctor
10. Dylara - ??
11. Ushaara - (claims nothing)
12. Vivet Dead: Fain, Traitor
13. Phoebus - ??
14. Selenity - jailed by Yomoigu
15. Portius - ?? (claims his power relies on role name)
16. Yomoigu - jailed Selenity
17. Shaddus - tracked Yomoigu
18. Othero - jailed by Weiwae, Soulless sense saw a Soulless approach Selenity
19. Tremula - ??
20. Weiwae - jailed Othero
(Technically we can't confirm that Breandryn did what she said she did, but I'm going to go on a limb based on the lynch-escape yesterday that she is Clangorum and did what she said she did.)
So I'm going to go out on a limb and say those who took an action could not have also committed murder. We have two kills to account for last night, of which at least one most certainly was a Soulless.
This means our pool of suspects today should be: @Lavinya, @Fyler, @Ssaliss, @Lehki, @Dylara, @Phoebus, @Portius, @Tremula. I'd include @Ushaara in this list because no one can vouch that he didn't do anything, and for that same reason, I honestly should belong in this list too.
I think we can say with some certainty that one of the people I've just listed killed @Xeii and is a Soulless. I would also not be surprised if someone else in this list tried to target Selenity last night, and failed due to Yomoigu's jailing.
Personally, of the people named, I am especially eye-balling @Ssaliss and @Tremula for participating in vote trains while also remaining in the fringes of mafia dialogue. I expect it more from Ssaliss's play-style, but less so from Tremula's.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Oh rofl. Shady queen. What the hell, Sylandra. That suggestive argument was so obvious it made my eyes bleed.
Did you seriously just list half the game with question marks and yourself as "no action." "Night 2 recap," my Elder left boob, that was unforgivably leading. The implication in those sorts of summaries are that they are neutral, observational fact.
I want everyone to note just how specifically crafted that was. Notice how she emphasizes other's claims in the list, but writes her "no action," as if it is equal footing as those who have claimed to have used a power. Sylandra knows mafia, this was intentional.
My vote stands.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
To be clear, for those reading casually through the posts, Ushaara is listed as (claims nothing), where as she lists herself as "No action," with a brief subsequent disclaimer that they are similar. Were it neutral, she'd have said "claims nothing," for herself. I think this is deliberate, lists are easy reference points the further you get in the game. People create them to establish arguments and points of reference. If you post a reference list, and that list has some very specific misleading bias, we need to ask why.
Sylandra knows mafia far too well to be that accidentally deliberate, IMHO.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I included myself in that list. I just didn't tag myself with an @ because I wrote it. In case you skimmed,
This means our pool of suspects today should be: @Lavinya, @Fyler, @Ssaliss, @Lehki, @Dylara, @Phoebus, @Portius, @Tremula. I'd include @Ushaara in this list because no one can vouch that he didn't do anything, and for that same reason, I honestly should belong in this list too.
You have to keep in mind I wrote the list initially for myself in Wordpad, and I know I didn't do anything so I can take my list at face value. But I do explicitly mention in the list at the bottom that for everyone else, I should be included as a potential suspicious person for today.
I do wonder. Are you trying to bait me? Because until this moment, I've read your actions as fairly straightforward and had no real beef with them, sleep-deprived frustrations of yesterday aside. I took your advice seriously and have backed off the Ushaara lynch train in light of your convincing arguments. I'm surprised you're reacting so hostilely to me trying to work through last night,
So yes, you should absolutely consider me a suspect for last night. I don't have any alibi to prove otherwise. But you should also keep these other names in mind, which includes you as well, Fyler.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
To be clear, for those reading casually through the posts, Ushaara is listed as (claims nothing), where as she lists herself as "No action," with a brief subsequent disclaimer that they are similar. Were it neutral, she'd have said "claims nothing," for herself. I think this is deliberate, lists are easy reference points the further you get in the game. People create them to establish arguments and points of reference. If you post a reference list, and that list has some very specific misleading bias, we need to ask why.
Sylandra knows mafia far too well to be that accidentally deliberate, IMHO.
Already covered that that part! So, no I didn't skim. I specifically mentioned your disclaimer that didn't really line up with your listing. In fact, it was central to the point I was making.
If you had intended this to be an objective list, I feel like you would've mirrored the other descriptions.
You should be flattered, I think you're a very good mafia player, and that degree of nuance, to distinguish yourself from the rest of the unknowns in such a way is well within your wheelhouse. I think you're too good to do that on accident, and trying to deflect it back on me as one of the "unknowns" doesn't really deter a player as aggressive as myself. If you want to make a case against me, by all means, my claim is about as boring as Serenwilde on the sabbath (no furry sex). It won't deter me from making the case I feel is necessary.
I've supported you previously, albeit disagreeing with your end conclusion. People don't typically go from reasonable to unreasonable without cause. I think, if you reread your list, and why I find it really odd, you'll find the cause.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Yeah. There's been a lot of overtime for me lately, and with people posting plenty as it is, I haven't posted much. The only thing that stands out to me right now are all the people claiming they have no powers. Mostly because I have neither day nor night powers myself.
@Sylandra You're an unexpected quasi-defender, but thank you for articulating how tricky my role and the scenario I'm in is. If I had tried to say anything more last night, I'd have descended into frothing at the mouth.
The main point where we differ in our analysis is that I believe Fain/Vivet's rolesheet makes it clear that the Traitor faction started with multiple members.
I get that there will always be suspicion around my role (brava for Schrödinger's Traitor, lol!), and am willing to put up with that, but -if- the Forbidden Elixir is a conversion, that same suspicion should surround everybody.
Governor/Inventor/Jailor/Detective/Tracker, every single one of those is as dangerous as my own role if converted, for the potential to mislead, give extra powers to the mafia, or save their own skins. But you all now know my power, and if you fear that I have been converted, you can simply lynch rather than an elaborate watch/block/investigate waste of resources.
But again, what should be becoming more clear from the number of role claims made, and leaving space for say.. 3 Soulless... is that I -appear- to be the only other canon Traitor in the game. It should also be clear that I did not start in the same faction as Vivet.
Two canon Traitors, in a game of 20...
I said from the very outset that part of my claim was to try and prevent
mafia hiding behind a "need to test/eliminate canon Traitors"
convenient lynch.
It is a weak excuse for a lynch, and I can't help but be suspicious of those who insist on it, and those who try turn discussion back to debating it rather than trying to figure anything else out.
--
Re: Shaddus
Me looking to lynch Shaddus, a confirmed investigator of some fashion (whether he knows himself or not...) looks like a scummy action, yes. I'm 100% aware of that, but I'm still willing to do it because if he is the Traitor faction's investigator, I have the most to gain as it will -hopefully- clear me in the process.
People are saying, "That's just Shaddus, not a bad guy etc." but there is a stark contrast between Luce's behaviour as an investigator, and how Shaddus outed people.
If he -is- Town, then I really have to say, "Precision of language!" again, because the whole reason I switched from Portius to him was because of the discrepancies in calling himself investigator/tracker.
I'm willing to unvote if there's no traction, but again for my own self-interest there has to be an alternative. So I'm likely back to Portius as a likely Soulless, if that's the case.
I was also trapped in an essence field last night. I'm not sure if it blocked my power last night. I got a message that a Soulless was after Selenity but I don't know which Soulless. That goes against how my power was explained, I should know the Soulless role name.
The wording isn't precise, I'm not sure what "was after" means. However, if Selenity was jailed she couldn't have been targeted at all.
That's just not true. Targeting happens before powers take effect, when someone tells Silvanus 'I want to XYZ Selenity'. After she has been targeted is when the interaction of powers takes comes into play. Hell, the entire game could have targeted Selenity but order of operations probably would still dictate that only the jailing would take effect.
@Fyler Dude. Come on. You're not wrong but you're also making a really weak argument. Sylandra didn't do anything different then anyone else does when they make a list. They assume their own innocence because either they are innocent or they want us to think they are. You'd have to be literally brain dead to look at that and go "Oh, Sylandra says she did nothing so she I guess she's safe!".
Ok FINE. I'll concede drunk me after a bottle of wine more convinced of the Sylandra conspiracy than sober me this morning. I maintain it was deliberate, though probably less insidious than what Wine-Lina thought. She does what she wants, okay.
unvote
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Oh, it was totally deliberate. I'm not going to debate that. It's just like, low key shady. It's a grey crime everyone commits. Just not much to point at.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
I was more concerned with the one inside the jail than anyone outside of it.
Though out of curiosity, @Selenity do you trust @Yomoigu or not? Considering he targeted you and Othero's post saying you were the target of Soulless last night.
Similar question for @Othero. Is Selenity being jailed something you'd associate with the "Soulless sense" you received? Or is this, in your view, an indicator someone else tried to target her last night?
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To clarify, @Shaddus is claiming tracker now, not investigator, yes? I'm torn regarding his lynch train. Lynching him is very much punishing bad play, which coincidentally I used to try and push the Day 1 lynch train on Shaddus. Bad play is a legitimate reason for offing a player, in my book, and outing a few roles unprompted is certainly behavior we shouldn't be rewarding. Particularly if the reasoning is the game got stagnant (?). So I'm not opposed to lynching him on those grounds.
This gets complicated once you consider Luce's investigation has vouched for Shaddus's role, however, as the tracker and as Mugowumpois. I'm inclined to believe Luce's investigation until further notice, so this lynch train is a bit counterproductive.
Hrng. I don't know, honestly. Perhaps Shaddus was converted last night? Hence him throwing all caution to the wind? But even then, why say everything in the open when you can state it comfortably in a night chat? It reads more like a poor townie play than a calculated mafia move, although it's very odd that he painted his power as more investigative than it initially was.
(On my end, an investigator or a tracker would have received the same result with me the night Shaddus saw me "vanish" into the Northern Wastes. So I didn't have reason to know which of the two he was.)
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@Weiwae I'd like to know why your list of suspicious people is what it is. If you find someone suspicious, you should be able to articulate why. This means answering @Fyler and @Phoebus when they say, "Why do you think I'm suspicious?" Additionally, I want to know your thoughts on @Yomoigu, considering his power has some parallels to your own, however incidentally.
I have no active night powers by the way. I really wasn't trying to get two townies killed. I legit thought they were scum. Then you know, the whole... shindig happened...
If Yomoigu was Soulless and targeted me, I don't know. If there's a Soulless jailer, I don't know. I just know I was safe last night. Maybe Yomo is Soulless, maybe Yomo isn't Soulless. Still don't know.
Unvote
Vote Yomoigu
One of the reasons I jailed Othero was to see if his power still worked while jailed. This lynch will actually reveal information to us about Yomoigu, Othero and Shaddus, if my vote is correctly placed.
So that does check out with what @Yomoigu is claiming, and if it's a jailing, that doesn't mean Yomoigu is necessarily the only person who targeted Selenity. It only means anyone else's attempt at targeting her was negated.
What we don't know is if anyone else targeted her, though. It's not possible to know. Since Yomoigu is the only person we know for sure, it's certainly possible he's that Soulless party. But it seems odd that Soulless would choose to jail someone who railroaded two useless lynch trains on Day 2. I'm not positive there would be much to gain from that, unless Selenity was a Soulless herself and they were protecting her from investigation, etc. But I'm not sure I buy that theory.
And there's this lynchpin, of course: this all hinges on whether or not @Othero's information is accurate as well.
Night 2 Recap:
1. Sylandra - no action
2. Falmiis Dead: Krokano, Elder
3. Lavinya - ??
4. Luce - Investigated Shaddus, who is tracker & Mugowumpois
5. not Celina - ??
6. Ssaliss - ??
7. Lehki - ??
8. Breandryn - tried to give plate to Xeii (failed)
9. Xeii Dead: Meridian, Doctor
10. Dylara - ??
11. Ushaara - (claims nothing)
12. Vivet Dead: Fain, Traitor
13. Phoebus - ??
14. Selenity - jailed by Yomoigu
15. Portius - ?? (claims his power relies on role name)
16. Yomoigu - jailed Selenity
17. Shaddus - tracked Yomoigu
18. Othero - jailed by Weiwae, Soulless sense saw a Soulless approach Selenity
19. Tremula - ??
20. Weiwae - jailed Othero
(Technically we can't confirm that Breandryn did what she said she did, but I'm going to go on a limb based on the lynch-escape yesterday that she is Clangorum and did what she said she did.)
So I'm going to go out on a limb and say those who took an action could not have also committed murder. We have two kills to account for last night, of which at least one most certainly was a Soulless.
This means our pool of suspects today should be: @Lavinya, @Fyler, @Ssaliss, @Lehki, @Dylara, @Phoebus, @Portius, @Tremula. I'd include @Ushaara in this list because no one can vouch that he didn't do anything, and for that same reason, I honestly should belong in this list too.
I think we can say with some certainty that one of the people I've just listed killed @Xeii and is a Soulless. I would also not be surprised if someone else in this list tried to target Selenity last night, and failed due to Yomoigu's jailing.
Personally, of the people named, I am especially eye-balling @Ssaliss and @Tremula for participating in vote trains while also remaining in the fringes of mafia dialogue. I expect it more from Ssaliss's play-style, but less so from Tremula's.
It's a shame that vivet didn't die by approaching Ushaara last night. That would have been great.
Did you seriously just list half the game with question marks and yourself as "no action." "Night 2 recap," my Elder left boob, that was unforgivably leading. The implication in those sorts of summaries are that they are neutral, observational fact.
I want everyone to note just how specifically crafted that was. Notice how she emphasizes other's claims in the list, but writes her "no action," as if it is equal footing as those who have claimed to have used a power. Sylandra knows mafia, this was intentional.
My vote stands.
Sylandra knows mafia far too well to be that accidentally deliberate, IMHO.
You have to keep in mind I wrote the list initially for myself in Wordpad, and I know I didn't do anything so I can take my list at face value. But I do explicitly mention in the list at the bottom that for everyone else, I should be included as a potential suspicious person for today.
I do wonder. Are you trying to bait me? Because until this moment, I've read your actions as fairly straightforward and had no real beef with them, sleep-deprived frustrations of yesterday aside. I took your advice seriously and have backed off the Ushaara lynch train in light of your convincing arguments. I'm surprised you're reacting so hostilely to me trying to work through last night,
So yes, you should absolutely consider me a suspect for last night. I don't have any alibi to prove otherwise. But you should also keep these other names in mind, which includes you as well, Fyler.
If you had intended this to be an objective list, I feel like you would've mirrored the other descriptions.
You should be flattered, I think you're a very good mafia player, and that degree of nuance, to distinguish yourself from the rest of the unknowns in such a way is well within your wheelhouse. I think you're too good to do that on accident, and trying to deflect it back on me as one of the "unknowns" doesn't really deter a player as aggressive as myself. If you want to make a case against me, by all means, my claim is about as boring as Serenwilde on the sabbath (no furry sex). It won't deter me from making the case I feel is necessary.
I've supported you previously, albeit disagreeing with your end conclusion. People don't typically go from reasonable to unreasonable without cause. I think, if you reread your list, and why I find it really odd, you'll find the cause.
The main point where we differ in our analysis is that I believe Fain/Vivet's rolesheet makes it clear that the Traitor faction started with multiple members.
I get that there will always be suspicion around my role (brava for Schrödinger's Traitor, lol!), and am willing to put up with that, but -if- the Forbidden Elixir is a conversion, that same suspicion should surround everybody.
Governor/Inventor/Jailor/Detective/Tracker, every single one of those is as dangerous as my own role if converted, for the potential to mislead, give extra powers to the mafia, or save their own skins. But you all now know my power, and if you fear that I have been converted, you can simply lynch rather than an elaborate watch/block/investigate waste of resources.
But again, what should be becoming more clear from the number of role claims made, and leaving space for say.. 3 Soulless... is that I -appear- to be the only other canon Traitor in the game. It should also be clear that I did not start in the same faction as Vivet.
Two canon Traitors, in a game of 20...
I said from the very outset that part of my claim was to try and prevent mafia hiding behind a "need to test/eliminate canon Traitors" convenient lynch.
It is a weak excuse for a lynch, and I can't help but be suspicious of those who insist on it, and those who try turn discussion back to debating it rather than trying to figure anything else out.
--
Re: Shaddus
Me looking to lynch Shaddus, a confirmed investigator of some fashion (whether he knows himself or not...) looks like a scummy action, yes. I'm 100% aware of that, but I'm still willing to do it because if he is the Traitor faction's investigator, I have the most to gain as it will -hopefully- clear me in the process.
People are saying, "That's just Shaddus, not a bad guy etc." but there is a stark contrast between Luce's behaviour as an investigator, and how Shaddus outed people.
If he -is- Town, then I really have to say, "Precision of language!" again, because the whole reason I switched from Portius to him was because of the discrepancies in calling himself investigator/tracker.
I'm willing to unvote if there's no traction, but again for my own self-interest there has to be an alternative. So I'm likely back to Portius as a likely Soulless, if that's the case.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
unvote