Ascension of Deichtine

24

Comments

  • The style of the event took away the advantage of having multiable seal bearers on your team for sure which opened up the playing field to the seal bearers who didn't have anyone to run the staff for them or had a limited number.
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New Zealand
    "Kethuru was destroyed by the sublime might of Deichtine, as was foretold in the verses of Magnora"

    Noticed this on Veyils honors scroll. Guessing it is a mistake on someones part, unless it means there will be no more ascension events. (Guessing it should read Ghani, not Kethuru)

    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • edited March 2018
    Kagato said:
    "Kethuru was destroyed by the sublime might of Deichtine, as was foretold in the verses of Magnora"

    Noticed this on Veyils honors scroll. Guessing it is a mistake on someones part, unless it means there will be no more ascension events. (Guessing it should read Ghani, not Kethuru)

    I think you missed a little bit there:

    On the 24th day of Vestian, 498 years after the Coming of Estarra, the 
    predestined Avatar of Kethuru was destroyed by the sublime might of Deichtine, 
    as was foretold in the Verses of Magnora.
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New Zealand
    Hah, whoops. Am on my mobile.
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • edited March 2018
    Honestly? This was fun for maybe 5-15 minutes. 

    I'm pretty sure when Avechna yelled at 50 points that people were only halfway there was a collective groan. 

    I agree with Kaimanahi's sentiments, except I would have added a lot more. With much stronger wording.

    Would I wake up again at 3 am for an event like this? No. 
    I mean, I appreciate all the hard work that went into it, sure. Nobody can question the amount of work or the many hours that went into it. But did it translate to fun? Not really. 
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • I had a draft going in notepad, but Kelly hit almost every point. I appreciate the idea of changing things up (even though as a relative newbie Ascension had not yet gotten 'old' for me), I am sure it took a lot of work and a lot of thought.

    But the final event was not fun. Sorry. And it wasn't fun long before the end result was clear. I won't re-list the reasons that have been articulated, but I will say one thing that maybe hasn't been clearly stated.

    Old style Ascension is a zero sum game - only one person can hold the staff. One person having it means another person can't have it. Other people 'stopping' an opposing force or Seal Bearer makes a difference. Coordination among allies makes a difference. Especially since they themselves can't do much. All that going out the window meant there was more fending for one's self than there might have been otherwise, AND there was really minimal benefit to 'stopping' an opposing Seal Bearer. It just didn't matter. Fast respawn and instant travel and access to toys and Stealth trumps all that. I didn't fully understand what was happening, and didn't have any of the lucky cool skills. Maybe we needed more communication and coordination. 

    But, you know, oh well. Kudos to @Veyils and team. You figured out what was happening and used -every- means at your disposal, and the final result wasn't even close no matter how many times we killed you. You made a plan and executed it. 
  • I enjoyed the format (thematically and mechanically). The one major thing I would probably say detracted more than added was the mass teleport - this didn't really bother me that much, but I know our newer people got hopelessly lost after one hit. In a maze with rubble rad was a pain and that was just the one room. Not everyone has fly, and I think that was an enormous factor in terms of personal mobility for non Ghani focussed individuals.

    My favourite events are the ones that make us have to do things a bit differently to how we normally go about things, so I derived a fair bit of enjoyment from this. That's easy to say as someone on the side that won, obviously - its quite possible my perceptions are coloured by that. I did feel all through the event like I could make a difference, which was nice.
  • Tarken said:
    That's easy to say as someone on the side that won, obviously - its quite possible my perceptions are coloured by that. I did feel all through the event like I could make a difference, which was nice.
    While I still think I would have found the event ultimately un-fun even had it ended different, I want to underline the last part of this statement. That's how I felt last year - even as a fairly novice combatant. It felt good. Also, we won. This year, I feel like literally nothing I did made any difference at all. Zero.
  • Ejderha said:
    Tarken said:
    That's easy to say as someone on the side that won, obviously - its quite possible my perceptions are coloured by that. I did feel all through the event like I could make a difference, which was nice.
    While I still think I would have found the event ultimately un-fun even had it ended different, I want to underline the last part of this statement. That's how I felt last year - even as a fairly novice combatant. It felt good. Also, we won. This year, I feel like literally nothing I did made any difference at all. Zero.
    As someone who was on the winning side, I thought this event was pretty lousy for me personally. Without any of the artifacts or promo items that allowed quicker movement (or flight) I was stuck aimlessly wandering around hoping that I ended up being a distraction for the enemy team. Evidence would suggest that I was at least slightly a distraction since I died 3 times to enemies. But I legitimately felt that I, and a not insignificant portion of our team could've left after 15 minutes and the result wouldn't have changed significantly (unless I'm massively underestimating how big a distraction we/killing us was to the opposition).  That being said, I liked the concept, I just think it needs some work.
  • Did you guys have someone hindering Ghani for your candidate? That seemed to help a good bit, though admittedly figuring out what hinders Ghani couldn't just walk through took some trial and error (pfifth finally let's me down).
  • Yes. Plenty of people doing that.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • What we didn't have, though, was path shortest.
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight
    edited March 2018
    I sadly had no chance to be at the ascension event. From the outside point of view it looks really cool idea wise. I do like in particular that every seal bearer could've made a run for it.

    I do understand though that a lot of people felt they were left out of the supporting roles and I think that's maybe something to consider and adress for next time Kethuru rears his ugly head. I'm hoping that things keep changing up, because I felt it was a lot more different then the other two ascensions I got to witness and, strictly focused on the challenges, it was overall better to see changes ( speaking generally ).

    I'm in love with pandemonium and the orrey, those are cool new areas! <3

    Now to the thing Idislike about this ascension and that, from what I hear, this path shortest thing was a major advantage if you figured it out. It's the admin's call to evaluate something like this and decide how to classify it, but I can very well relate to any frustration of others having advantage due to figuring out an obscure syntax that did work despite path finding generally being blocked.

    I would hope for the future that, if something like this is discovered during the event, that it's caught, rules to either allow it generally (and then notify everyone of the syntax allowed ) / allow it this time / stop it from being used, even though I do realize that is hard to achieve mid event. However, it both makes things sore  for the ones who won and for the others who didn't, because it diminishes the achievement and makes those who loose feel sour, so it's essentially loose/loose.

    Maybe we could establish an kind of 'alert' thing/way where such things discovered by players, could quickly be communicated during such events directly to the admin running / overseeing the event?
    Avatar / Picture done by the lovely Gurashi.
  • I personally had a lot of fun! I've never attended an Ascension before, and it's given me a lot of incentive to learn more of the game's mechanics. It sounds like Glomdoring was really inventive and clever with figuring out how to get to Ghani, and while I would have loved to see my side win, it does seem well earned from where I'm standing (even with the Stealth advantage!)

    I totally get the concern others have expressed, and I feel bad that the event wasn't as fun for everybody as it was for me. I definitely think there are some things to take away from this Ascension for next year's, but I hope the Admin keep coming up with new ideas to try for it and aren't scared off from shaking things up. But as a person who's been playing for < a year, I wanted to throw in my opinion for what it's worth.
    Amazing beautiful stunning avatar by Gurashi!
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  • Shaddus said:
    Taevy said:
    What we didn't have, though, was path shortest.
    If you have a tool but don't use it, that doesn't mean the other side cheated. That means you didn't use all the tools at your disposal. Especially since most of the actual competitors on your "side" have been gone for most of the year, and only showed back up for Ascension.

    IJS.
    Would just like to point out that this is a really messed up stand point, especially considering the quick patch made regarding PATH SHORTEST. Bug abuse should not be something that is encouraged.
  • edited March 2018
    I just want to point something out for the mob.

    I did not know of any bugs, and I only attempted path track a few times (which all failed for me). My own mapper did not work in this area either. I do not own wings or any skill that would let me just suddenly arrive. I did not have access to portals (which is at least a delayed action, and can be stopped). I also had no idea that 100 hits won the game, I thought that just unlocked the staff.

    I was in second place, I believe.  I do not remember the exact score, but I think I did a rather good show.

    As with chaos... what would everyone have done? Complaining will not result in them descending someone, because the bug was theoretically equal. At BEST, you may expect them to raise second place (since there was no intended abuse), which would still be a southern glom/gaudi win. Unless someone has a reasonable proposal that does not try to retcon.... I do not think this topic will get you anywhere useful.

    EDIT: And I have no idea how you would justify a second ascendant now.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited March 2018
    You're absolutely right that this decision can not, will not be reversed. Would everyone knowing that PATH SHORTEST was a tool you could use have gotten a different winner? Maybe not. Would it have evened the playing field? Undeniably. (This sounds suspiciously like the Chaos Seal problem/argument)

    I don't know if anyone's been following along, but a lot of the players in the north have felt a keen sense of disenfranchisement over the past months, or even years. The results being decided by one team knowing of a tool and not saying "hmm, this seems to give an unfair advantage/is not the spirit of the Final Ascension", knowing that they have several players with access to the Envoys channel to voice a concern, only contributes to the north's disenfranchisement.

    Note how I haven't cast any -real- doubt on Glomdoring's players. The only certainty is that we feel pushed out of having fun. Again.

    EDIT: I guess I shouldn't say 'we'. I was not there; I decided to sleep instead. Doesn't make what I said any less true though.

    image
  • edited March 2018
    Dude, just stop and think about what you're saying. Are you seriously suggesting that during the absolute clusterfrick event where seasoned players and god-tier pvpers were staring at their screens and saying "wtf is going on right now?", after the mind-and-soul-destroying epic struggle between divine SSC and divine mandate, and whilst getting AFd by an ubermeld the likes of which have never been seen... Are you seriously suggesting that whilst that was going on anybody was thinking "Ooooh, this bug looks really tasty and I bet the other team hasn't found it"? And "Oh, this strategy which is working isn't in the spirit of Final Ascension"? Seriously? Nobody had a damned clue what the "spirit of final ascension" was during that couple of hours. My laptop damned near went across the room during that event on more than one occasion. I repeat, NOBODY knew what they were doing. You can abuse flag me all you want, but having "decided to sleep instead" you don't get to turn up two days later and take up the mantle of the 9am jury.
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight
    Malarious said:
    I just want to point something out for the mob.

    I did not know of any bugs, and I only attempted path track a few times (which all failed for me). My own mapper did not work in this area either. I do not own wings or any skill that would let me just suddenly arrive. I did not have access to portals (which is at least a delayed action, and can be stopped). I also had no idea that 100 hits won the game, I thought that just unlocked the staff.

    I was in second place, I believe.  I do not remember the exact score, but I think I did a rather good show.

    As with chaos... what would everyone have done? Complaining will not result in them descending someone, because the bug was theoretically equal. At BEST, you may expect them to raise second place (since there was no intended abuse), which would still be a southern glom/gaudi win. Unless someone has a reasonable proposal that does not try to retcon.... I do not think this topic will get you anywhere useful.

    EDIT: And I have no idea how you would justify a second ascendant now.
    For me it's nothing about whether Glomdoring won or not ( it's an achievement to win, they should be proud for getting this far, I know they did a lot of effort ), for me it's that not having a very distinct and swift response to a problem such as this leaves players feeling as being defeated not by peers with better knowledge/preparation/skill but by not knowing an obscure sub-command was working to give you a fast paced tracking advantage. The real impact on the outcome of the ascension is almost secondary in my eyes, it simply hurts the game as a whole, regardless on which 'side' you were on and hence is why I personally highlight it in my comment as well.

    For me, this is not about detracting from/changing the outcome of the ascension that happened, but hopefully highlighting the issues that were there in a hope that they can be avoided in the next ascension and thus keeping all participants reasonably happy.
    Avatar / Picture done by the lovely Gurashi.
  • Maligorn said:
    You're absolutely right that this decision can not, will not be reversed. Would everyone knowing that PATH SHORTEST was a tool you could use have gotten a different winner? Maybe not. Would it have evened the playing field? Undeniably. (This sounds suspiciously like the Chaos Seal problem/argument)

    I don't know if anyone's been following along, but a lot of the players in the north have felt a keen sense of disenfranchisement over the past months, or even years. The results being decided by one team knowing of a tool and not saying "hmm, this seems to give an unfair advantage/is not the spirit of the Final Ascension", knowing that they have several players with access to the Envoys channel to voice a concern, only contributes to the north's disenfranchisement.

    Note how I haven't cast any -real- doubt on Glomdoring's players. The only certainty is that we feel pushed out of having fun. Again.

    EDIT: I guess I shouldn't say 'we'. I was not there; I decided to sleep instead. Doesn't make what I said any less true though.


    Regarding realising it was a bug, you do realise anyone who hasn't updated their systems to use path track go that uses gameside pathing uses path shortest by default, right? This wasn't an obscure command: its the default for any gameside pathing for a pvper that fights in enemy territory. I 100% appreciate your frustration, but if I'd not updated to use path track go a few nights before, I absolutely wouldn't have realised anything was working out of the ordinary. I know that doesn't help at all, but hopefully it'll assuage the concern (existent or not) that anyone specifically did not mention something that should have been mentioned.

  • The defense of bug abuse, willingly or no, leaves a poor taste in my mouth and reminds me why Lusternia has taken a backseat in my interests.
  • Malarious said:
    ... which would still be a southern glom/gaudi win. Unless someone has a reasonable proposal that does not try to retcon.... I do not think this topic will get you anywhere useful.

    EDIT: And I have no idea how you would justify a second ascendant now.
    I think you missed the reason people are mad, there are people in every org I've seen complain about this "bug abuse." It isn't just OMGUS.
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