Ascension of Deichtine

13

Comments

  • Moi said:
    I also want to go on the record as saying that the serverside pathfinding should absolutely NOT be disabled in important event areas!
    I think we were at something of an advantage, because when we were brainstorming possible twists for Ascension, the idea of an unmappable / new area came up. Some small contingencies were put in place to deal with that.

    We also discussed the possibility of the event being done without GMCP, and I'm glad that the Divine aren't as wicked as we thought they might be.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    Maligorn said:
    "hmm, this seems to give an unfair advantage/is not the spirit of the Final Ascension"
    Ascension has always been discovering advantages and keeping them to yourself though.

    Using a basic game command that is taught to newbies isn't some great hidden secret that lacked documentation, it's entirely easy to assume that if you thought of it, someone else has too (though as we've now learned that's a flawed assumption)

    At what point were they expected to assume it was a bug, over having a better strategy than other teams (and not to overlook other mechanical advantages due to skillsets) Yes now with the power of hindsight we can say "ok that was the deciding factor" but during the event?

    You're saying that players should surrender their strategy to everyone else if they build up a lead, why? It's a contest with a prize at the end, this isn't the school sports day where there are no winners and everyone gets a participation trophy.

    They used a command to do exactly what it said on the tin, if it was doing something it normally shouldn't (example if it instantly teleported you there for no balance) then sure that's an obvious bug.

    Ultimately anyone could have found it, although knowing some people in Glomdoring and their well documented history of trying everything, usually until it breaks, it's not surprising that they thought of it first.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • Its not even a question of trying it, it's just "did you code your system to use syntax A, or syntax B?" It was pure luck.
  • Nice red herring
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Concessions? A majority of the losing side is blaming the admin and repeatedly saying that the admin is biased. I wouldn't reward that.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • KaimanahiKaimanahi The One True Queen
    I don't think your reference to some vocal minority on informal chat groups is a fair basis for dismissing my points. I didn't say anything about admin bias. And I'm not looking for some "reward", just some acknowledgement that our real concerns are at least heard and are considered for the future. The Admin asked for feedback on this event, and that should come with the acceptance that it's not all "kumbayah, praise be" on our end. The Admin could at least admit that there were problems and unintended receptions, despite good intentions. 
    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    edited March 2018
    I don't think your reference to some vocal minority on informal chat groups is a fair basis for dismissing my points. I didn't say anything about admin bias. And I'm not looking for some "reward", just some acknowledgement that our real concerns are at least heard and are considered for the future. The Admin asked for feedback on this event, and that should come with the acceptance that it's not all "kumbayah, praise be" on our end. The Admin could at least admit that there were problems and unintended receptions, despite good intentions. 

    Fair point. I suppose Yarith and Taevyn do constitute a very vocal minority, especially when they haven't been around much all year. I just don't think highly of them for accusing certain admin of bias, and talking about trying to get this year's winner shrubbed "for obvious bug abuse". Maybe I need thicker skin. As for concessions, I'm not sure exactly what you expect. An apology? A "shit happens and we're sorry."? A do-over?

    So here you go. I'm sorry, Kelly. I'm sorry that you, and Saoirse, and Taevyn, and Ciaran, and Shamarah, and a handful of others came back for nothing. I'm sorry that you didn't win. I'm sorry that the massive area designed by our hard working admin was a little buggy, and it made you waste your time. I'm sorry that it wasn't tested beforehand to make sure it was fair to everyone who can't adapt to changes. I'm sorry that the tactics you used last time you graced us with your presence didn't work this time around. I'm sorry that the admin tried to make Ascension "Not boring" and switched it up on you. I'm sorry that our admin are human and can't always predict how players can break things or find bugs.


    We'll see you next year. Cheers!
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • edited March 2018
    I just wanted to ask, has anyone found a mudlet mapper work around for GMCP not giving the (correct) vnum and area when in the new area? (I ask here cause everyone is here)
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    I don't know about GMCP, but I have all 3 areas fully client-side mapped now, with roomnums pulled from the ROOMNUM command.

    The biggest thing I found was that some rooms seem constant, but some rooms change their names (the main one I noticed it on had two different names it toggled between, but it is possible there are more options).  The roomnum from ROOMNUM was always the same, so I could use that to make sure I was in the right place, just can't rely on room name.
    image
  • KaimanahiKaimanahi The One True Queen
    I'm sorry, it was my mistake that I thought you had a real point to make, @Shaddus.

    See, personally, I'm not above admitting when I make mistakes, despite my fair intention in trying to come to a mutual understanding.

    10/10 Shamarah reference, though. 
    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Mkay, here's my point.


    Maybe if you quit thinking that all there is to Lusternia is showing up for a few weeks each year to win the big trophy, then you wouldn't feel so bad when you don't win it.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • Xenthos said:
    I don't know about GMCP, but I have all 3 areas fully client-side mapped now, with roomnums pulled from the ROOMNUM command.

    The biggest thing I found was that some rooms seem constant, but some rooms change their names (the main one I noticed it on had two different names it toggled between, but it is possible there are more options).  The roomnum from ROOMNUM was always the same, so I could use that to make sure I was in the right place, just can't rely on room name.
    roomnum is ATCP, which makes it really weird GMCP is not working. (I have full maps of the area ready just not reacting to my movement, even manually mapping does not detect me walking to create new rooms.

    I guess I am learning atcp today, thanks for the info
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Well, I do all my mapping with ROOMNUM these days, since I have no access to GMCP.

    Maybe this is another one of those bugs which is impossible to tell is a bug because it is the only command I use.  Does GMCP really not work there?
    image
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight
    edited March 2018
    @Esoneyuna I've bugged all the GMCP weirdness up there. I've not heard back yet about it, but am hoping most of them are actual bugs. For example the Room List/Add/Remove events are not containing anything there, so I would personally suggest to bug that one as well.

    Additionally, can we please keep this discussion civil and not resort to personal resentments? This day's been horrible enough. :(
    Avatar / Picture done by the lovely Gurashi.
  • edited March 2018
    Xenthos said:
    Well, I do all my mapping with ROOMNUM these days, since I have no access to GMCP.

    Maybe this is another one of those bugs which is impossible to tell is a bug because it is the only command I use.  Does GMCP really not work there?
    Ok so I went to test this is what I get in gaudi city

    {
      WrongDir = "s",
      Info = {
        map = "www.lusternia.com/irex/maps/clientmap.php?map=142&building=0&level=2 4 2",
        num = 11380,
        details = {
          "the Prime Material Plane",
          "indoors"
        },
        coords = "142,-8,24,2",
        desc = "The steady stairway flattens out as it leads to this small circular chamber, roughly
    six feet in diameter. A thin channel circles the room, brimming with liquid fire that combusts
    steadily, releasing a flickering light and sweltry heat. The air glows a subtle orange, staining
    the surroundings similarly and oppressing many colours into shades of amber. A wide archway to the
    east opens to a balcony, granting the room a glimpse of spectacular view of the city.",
        name = "Before the Bridge of Kahzadi",
        environment = "urban",
        exits = {
          sw = 11379,
          w = 11375,
          nw = 11382
        },
        area = "the City of Gaudiguch"
      },

    This is what I get in the new area

    {
      WrongDir = "se",
      Info = {
        map = "www.lusternia.com/irex/maps/images/lost.png 2 2",
        num = 47292,
        details = {
          "the Plane of Creation",
          "outdoors"
        },
        coords = "",
        desc = "You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.",
        name = "In a maze",
        environment = "nothing",
        exits = {
        },
        area = "the Divine Havens"
      },

    At first look it is an intentional thing they did for a maze, HOWEVER I do not get that when the game map does show the room properly. I think the maze flag is an issue here that either does not do what is intended, or just annoys people that rely on gmcp instead of old fashion triggering (which one has to wonder why do it, only people using mudlet in gmcp will get affected because good old triggering can read the vnums in the map window)

    ps. I am not accusing anyone of anything, I am just trying to solve an issue with my mapper, I love you all (as opposed to my character that hates all of you)
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Aramel said: I
    Shaddus said:

    So here you go. I'm sorry, Kelly. I'm sorry that you, and Saoirse, and Taevyn, and Ciaran, and Shamarah, and a handful of others came back for nothing. I'm sorry that you didn't win. I'm sorry that the massive area designed by our hard working admin was a little buggy, and it made you waste your time. I'm sorry that it wasn't tested beforehand to make sure it was fair to everyone who can't adapt to changes. I'm sorry that the tactics you used last time you graced us with your presence didn't work this time around. I'm sorry that the admin tried to make Ascension "Not boring" and switched it up on you. I'm sorry that our admin are human and can't always predict how players can break things or find bugs.

    We'll see you next year. Cheers!
    All right, I'll bite. This mindset - that every admin decision is above criticism by definition - is one of the things that has slowly alienated me from the game. Do admin work hard and put an incredible amount of energy into the game? Sure. But hard work doesn't mean that the result of that work is always the best possible option. Unfortunately, there are a number of people who take any critique of the state of the game as an affront to the admin's hard work. This means that any disagreement with the status quo quickly brings a wave of snide remarks and personal insinuations.




    Look. Anyone who actually pays attention to me knows that I'll be the first to congratulate the admin for a job well done, and the first to complain when they make a mistake. I've had to be humble and email apologies to admin before because I went off on a tangent and wrote several paragraphs worth of "omg you suck how could you not notice this" where they could see it. We're all human.

    But it's the height of hubris to imply that the admin owe you apologies, or concessions, or whatever word you wish to use, just because something didn't work out right. Unless you have some sort of proof that an admin cheated, don't make that sort of accusation. Unless you have some sort of proof that someone is intentionally and willfully abusing something they know is a bug,  don't make that accusation. If something doesn't go your way, quit making excuses as to why it was anyone else's fault but yours.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • edited March 2018
    Shaddus said:

    But it's the height of hubris to imply that the admin owe you apologies, or concessions, or whatever word you wish to use, just because something didn't work out right. Unless you have some sort of proof that an admin cheated, don't make that sort of accusation. Unless you have some sort of proof that someone is intentionally and willfully abusing something they know is a bug,  don't make that accusation. If something doesn't go your way, quit making excuses as to why it was anyone else's fault but yours.
    Nobody is making that argument. You're being super caustic to people that are not even claiming that anyone 'cheated'. Chill out.
    Take great care of yourselves and each other.
  • Did anyone try to use PATH TRACK / PATH FIND on 'our side' and if so, did you see the hint about using PATH SHORTEST?

    I know when you use it now in Pandaemonium, if you have a room num, try PATH TRACK/FIND it gives you the hint about path shortest, obviously doesn't work now though since the changelog.  I'm just curious to know if there was a hint during the event, and if not, we definitely wouldn't have known - who uses just 'path' to see the syntaxes when they know path track works everywhere else?? Not to mention a lot of people's mappers didn't even work when walking around trying to map -mine included, and I wouldn't even know where to start with what some people did to make it work or at least try.
     
    ---

    I personally found it confusing and disorientating during Ascension, but I am a sucker for new areas, new beasties and possible lore behind it ,so I'm excited to explore and quest there. (Massive raves for this)

    It wasn't just 'new people' that found themselves going 'wtf is going on' - it was literally everyone on both sides. No one knew what was happening or where to go, or how to find their group again. I ended up sitting still and empressing people when they called for it, because I felt that the only thing I was useful for as I could never find/get back to group. If I was in the meld, I could hardly move and called for empress myself just to get out to make some sense of what was going on. 

    I was unsure about posting, to be honest, from seeing the reactions of both 'sides' when legit feedback is given - which, by the way, was ASKED for BY the admin.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    Thanks Estarra, for your post. I non-facetiously feel a bit better.

    image
  • TremulaTremula Banished Quasiroyal
    I would much prefer the variants of Beauty and Final, at the very least. I was so shocked, and it definitely made me feel if I'd been a Sealbearer I could have stood a shot, which is a feeling I very much liked.
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • Because I like pictures and procrastination: https://gyazo.com/c9a2215f8e84bc911a2d766cd66b74ef

    Unfortunately, x axis is not time but rather the number of times I checked the event score, since my log didn't capture my custom prompt with time stamps. 

    Side note: anyone know how to either capture time stamps or custom prompt with the logging function in mudlet (i.e. the box in the corner)?
  • Thanks Estarra. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting relitigating the result, but it is reassuring to know you are taking in the feedback of those of us who had less fun than we hoped.

    I prefer the old style of Ascension. I prefer the group to matter more than the individual, so it is a group decision and group success when it happens.

    If you do decide to do alternative Ascensions, I would suggest continuing to refine it based on how you want people to feel coming out of it. For example, with a more literal and material representation of Kethuru in Ghani, I actually expected Ascension to require MORE cooperation - even across alliances - than normal. I don't know, say that x Seal Bearers (or x% of present seal bearers) must willingly give their seal all to a single person in order to finish it. If they can't decide or agree, start destroying areas. Something like that. Make Ascension actually about stopping Kethuru and take a fractured population and unite them behind a single purpose, somehow. I don't know. I had hopes when there was a more specific and definable enemy that we might find a way to make the event more about what it should actually be about, rather than a cover story for the inevitable Ascension of one person winning an arbitrary contest. But that would probably have made people upset too, so what do I know?
  • I haven't been around much all year? 

    I don't know where you've been, @Shaddus.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
Sign In or Register to comment.