Leaving Lusternia



  • DaedrothDaedroth Member Posts: 54 Capable
    edited March 2018
    Anita said:
    Versalean said:
    The other point is that not only are the loyals going to respawn but your character knows they're going to respawn. That's not meta information - they've seen it happen hundreds of times in the past. So I don't think it is poor RP to choose your battles if you're just gonna get more pissed off when you run in their solo and die. Of course, if you're one of the minority of players that are happy to accept a meaningful death, then do run in their solo and die, and absorb it into your RP.
    I really do understand this point of view, but it has come up in the past where I (and others) have been made to feel bad for not defending/doing the things, or when we do, for not succeeding. I guess I'm just a person who takes things to heart, when I shouldn't. It's really easy to say "But you don't have to!" but when it's in my nature to... a bit hard to change, yeah? D:
    I understand where you're coming from. Not defending can have political ramifications, not succeeding can be even worse during an election in my experience. I'm also the type that usually enjoys PVP and taking on challenges... I just can't do it here.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,422 Transcendent

    It's also a loss, which is something everyone deals with differently. Even if you don't turn up the loss condition (dead aspects/lords) still happens.

    I know for myself it would bring on a bunch of stuff about feeling weak, powerless, etc. No matter what route I chose, even logging out which was often dealt with by playing other games.

    But there's a difference between "I just can't play this class" and "Everyone around me says my class sucks".
    One I can personally do something about the other is completely out of my hands except for spending real money to switch from the class I really want to play to something else. 

    That's also why I believe that classes need fixing before the raiding/conflict stuff is revitalised. Cause I think the other order would exacerbate the issue.
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,454 Transcendent
    I like that last one, because then even if a noncom couldn't really fight, they could still run in and die a bunch to spawn the murder mobs
  • AramelAramel Member Posts: 305 Mythical
    edited March 2018
    I think it's a shame that people have to mechanically retire before we can accept that they can be critiquing the status quo without any underhanded motives (and often not even then). One of the most toxic things about Lusternia, and one that I brought up once before with a listening admin, is that any dissatisfaction with the combat status quo gets the feedback of "just git gud, you whiner". That might be valid in a MOBA game where everyone has access to the same tools, but it can be disheartening in a game where that isn't true.

    Lusternia is ultimately a game that people play for (hopefully) fun, and no player owes any game their engagement if it isn't fun. If a whole bunch of people are saying "this isn't fun for us anymore", or if it's an open secret that "welp, 3 of them just flexed into <class>, time to qq" for months and months, then there are two possibilities. Either an entire section of your playerbase are just sore losers and the admin and "winners" should tell them to quit Lusternia, or there's a problem with balance.

    I also saw the IG poll, which brings out a suggestion I once made:

    Consider giving every org the same 5 classes with the same skills, re-skinned for org flavour. When you propose this, see which combatants (not people who are primarily RPers, who have their own reasons besides balance for liking their skills, but combatants who have to deal with the mechanical skills) jump at the chance and say YES PLEASE and which say NO WAY. That'll give you an idea of which classes are the most underpowered.

    In the current in-game poll, I'm not sure which way I'll vote. Nihilists are in a very different place than Illuminati. I'd say overall wiccans are strongest, though MD is a bit of a succumb + hexes one trick pony.
    (clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
  • RidetaRideta Member Posts: 92 Gifted
    Veyils said:

    One big point I think everyone needs to take to heart though is that a game like Lusternia is only as good as the player base. Keep it classy, try and be civil with everyone and even if you don't agree or don't like someone don't slander and don't backbite or insult in public forums.

    There are discord and other OOC channels where known figures have accused admin outright of cheating, bias and destroying the game. We've had a true newbie to the game tell me about how their first experience of joining Lusternia discord to ask some questions was met with homophobic, racist death threats from certain known members of the community. It's a horrible experience for a newbie to come in and hear this kind of stuff.

    @veyils I'm very interested in having more information on this. I've pinged you on Discord and now here as well so that I can take appropriate action as necessary. Apart from a specific individual who has been reprimanded as appropriate for something vaguely related to this concept, I'm aware of nothing that constitutes a, 'racist, homophobic, death threat,' having taken place on the server, let alone from multiple members. Again, please message me with information.

    As to the rest, regarding admin bias or cheating... yes. Absolutely those discussions have taken place on the server. I think it's important that those conversations did indeed take place, because it allows a very candid look at how many players are feeling. The lack of a filter can be alarming at times. In fact it can hurt feelings very deeply - given that nobody present expects their exact wording to be delivered to the Administration of Lusternia, (Or, to be honest, that those complaining even realize which admin may or may not be involved in anything whatsoever. The way one presents their complaint will absolutely change depending on who they think they're making that complaint about and to whom) but being able to express discontent and mold it into something useful to bring back to others is a very vital piece of the community puzzle. 

    I'm aware of Glomdoring's current disenfranchisement with the playerbase and understand that's why most of you have your own situations worked out, as well as how it influences your opinion of the Discord community as a whole, but a vast chunk of the overall Lusternian community is *still* on the Discord server every day. Yes, it's not nearly as filtered as the forums and contains some bombastic language at times, but the few other admins and myself do make effort to keep things within appropriate boundaries. I've only been personally contacted once to resolve an issue, and it resulted in an individual losing chat privileges for about a day with a 'strike,' on their record noted for future incidents. However, I would say that the *comparatively* loose restrictions are why the server is as populated as it is to begin with. It is a place where folks can let loose and vent on game topics, meet with debate on said topics, and then calm down and end up in a constructive dialogue let's say...  seven times out of ten. Some people just need to get their frustrations out. For the rest, we have an ongoing combat channel where all manner of disagreements and salt-infused dialogue are allowed to take place with very little restriction or supervision. There are items such as a craft channel, general gaming channel, rants/raves channel, coding support channel, etcetera. There is even a *no-restriction* channel available as well, within Legal Boundaries, and is opt-in only - Needing to be cleared by an administrator for access. Any user can essentially pick and choose which aspects of the community to immerse themselves in or ignore. Think of it as a rapid-fire Forums for the game in simple chat form.

    An appropriate Third Place is a necessity for many communities, real and virtual, somewhere 'offline,' where people can be more free with their gripes, complaints, and hopes. A place to unwind and share in others who are seeking such a thing as well. For a lot of people, Lusternia *is* their Third Place. For others who are heavily invested in the game, Discord is something similar. A Third Place within a Third Place, so to speak. Others simply view it as an extension of the community. The fact is, the Discord community IS the Lusternian Community. I do my best, alongside my other two admin, to keep things running smoothly. 

    My only real regret is that there's yet to be an administrative... I don't know, official reaction to the server. It just exists. Some Lusternian Admin may have been present at times, maybe, but as far as I am aware there's no community manager taking the things that are said and whittling them down to bring back to the administration of the game as to make improvements or critiques. There's no official Community Representative distilling player commentary to actionable points of improvement to the game to clue Lusty-Admin into. It's pretty self-contained. If I had one wish for the game as a whole, it would be to better utilize this space of the community in that way. Perhaps that's something that can even be looked at for the future - I'll probably draft up an email on that topic shortly, or a separate forum post, and see how people feel. I'll explore that option. Maybe people will feel it's best to have that space untapped, I don't know.

    My end statement here is simply this: We're all in it together. Whether we are embittered or optimistic, whether we are complaining on the forums or complaining on the Discord, whether we express ourselves through art, or vitriol, or poetry, through whatever method we can create our personal language... everything comes from an intense desire to love this game, this community, and see it succeed. Everyone here wants Lusternia to be the greatest it can be. The fact that we are arguing over how best to make that a reality is a net positive, and I hope people remember to carry forward with that thought in mind.
    (Magnagora): Thax says, "My truest favour to the soldier that brings me the weave of Neos."
  • Lilyin!Lilyin! Member Posts: 63 Adept
    I think nexus guardians are considered "bad sport" ooc which is why i rarely have seen them used. I know they are immensely unfun to fight.
  • MinkahmetMinkahmet Member Posts: 104 Capable
    Estarra said:
    Just out of curiosity, does anyone use nexus guardians? They were meant to be the answer for those to help defend against raids without needing any PVP skills. You basically get to control the guardian, a beefy mob, to track down and destroy intruders. If people don't use them because they're not effective, we could make them stronger, more powers, etc. See HELP NEXUS GUARDIANS
    That reminds me, to let the new Serens know about this feature too. I do think it needs looking into to be stronger. To be frank, if you have demigods or demigods with toys+divinefire methods to bypass guardstacks of 20+ and in a case I witnessed to bypass guardstacks of even 40+a shrine at the nexus, to survive them AND still dust a shrine tells me something is clearly not right with mechanical functions revolving around guards off-plane. I find it personally an abuse and a form of trolling the purpose for guards and with them being limited to only the nexus if off-plane and like saying "ha ha guards are meaningless and I can get away with it".  Anyway, this would help the younglings who wish to defend in some way without having to have pvp knowledge/code knowledge(or yet to have the knowledge)
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,422 Transcendent
    Every time guardians have been remembered that I’ve seen they’ve been dismissed quickly because of the limitations on who can use them and general uselessness.

    I’d guess that they may have only seen use when this hasn’t been told to people who got the priv 
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,668 Transcendent
    I had a half-gestated thought. I'm not convinced it's a good one because I don't know how Lusty's inner workings work, but here it is.

    I have never directly spent money on Lusternia. I have handed some bardic credits to people to have them buy me lesson packs, though. There just aren't many artifacts that I can use beyond convenience things as a noncom. I feel like that's probably a decently common situation. And I think the combat people would rather there were less new combat artifacts. I think there's a partial solution to these problems.

    Maybe have people look into pledging for specific content releases? Like, take designs. There are only so many patterns, and designers generally want more. My understanding is that it takes a decent but not huge amount of dev time to make those, so it doesn't happen often. What if you allowed people to pay to have new ones added? Make it a pledge system so that a bunch of people can throw in a couple bucks instead of funding it all out of hand. I'm guessing there are a lot of designers who would be willing to contribute.

    Or maybe let people ask for reskins of the class bashing weapons the same way? Or new weapon types added to existing warrior specializations? And so forth.

    Could do something similar with quests. List a few possible areas, have people pay to prioritize building those. I know that there are areas of Lusty that I find more interesting than others and would be willing to shell out a few dollars to promote.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • MinkahmetMinkahmet Member Posts: 104 Capable
    Enya said:
    Nexus guardians are dead useless, even with the effective zero cost they have now to use. I've summoned one a few times and toyed around with it, and they're so limited and weak that there isn't any point, and even a novice is likely to be much more useful in combat spamming one-two  class skills at random.

    Anyways (and more to the topic), the very best way to defend your plane - that is, to remove raiders from your territory- is to bore them into going away. Even with a larger defending force that can kill them off, many raiders will just come back and harry the plain until they get bored anyways, as there isn't anything stopping them. The ostensible way this is balanced is via boredom tax, that is escalating requirements to do the repetitive and boring task of grinding xp to break even. So at some point the excitement of participating in active combat (or lack thereof) for the raider is outbalanced by the time they have to spend grinding and they go away. As a defender you often can't affect the grinding time side of that equation, as the raider can simply attack when you can't easily kill them off repeatedly. You can always change the excitement part by not engaging though! You "win" the raid by making it as boring as possible for the aggressors. That is: Log off.
    To which I wholly agree, and also to what I have done since this month of March, as some may or may not have noticed-that it's wise to just step out of pk, as yes, they'll eventually kill a few loyals(whoopti doo!) and go away as to how I see it-only to provoke a response. I mean, if you do defend, all the more to you, but not for me unless there's going to be an rp event revolving around that in some fashion or another. Otherwise, no-I've more important things to focus on.
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  • TarkenTarken Member Posts: 50 Adept
    You should defend if you find defending fun - you shouldn't if you don't. There is a difference between intensity and lack of enjoyment: the former is good and too often the latter is mistaken for it. Emotional investment is important because it can make day-to-day situations feel like they matter (even if they don't). However, if you are regularly doing something you don't enjoy in any game - regardless of your emotional investment in said game, I personally feel that is a mistake. There is a singular driving principle behind any form of entertainment: fun.
  • TarkenTarken Member Posts: 50 Adept
    I feel there are two parts to your argument here: the first that if things are regularly happening in the game that you don't like why are you playing the game, and the second that denizen lives should matter to your character. Let me address them separately.

    First: there are many aspects to Lusternia. I would be very surprised if everyone likes everything - at least, I know I don't. The beauty of having a lot of different aspects to a game is you can choose to partake of the ones you do enjoy while mostly opting out of ones you don't. Naturally you can't completely divorce yourself from parts you're not so keen on, that's part of the world. But if you don't like something you can pretty convincingly opt out while still being a major actor on the Lusternia stage.

    Second, I don't disagree their lives should matter to your character. That said, not everyone has to be a soldier for the glorious cause or what not: being a preacher or scholar is just as valid. From a meta point of view we all have the mechanical capability to be elite warriors, but there's no reason your character needs to be one, or indeed, have any aptitude for martial activities at all. There's also no issue saying "we are presently lacking the force to combat this incursion, we will avenge our <insert mobs here> when the time is right."

    Speaking for myself as someone who does raid and jump into raids that get started by other people, hitting the mobs is a fairly standard test to gauge interest (entirely from a mechanics point of view). IC, obviously it has the standard meaning: we hate these mobs and they must die, blah blah blah.

    Obviously, this is all just personal opinion. I definitely appreciate not everyone sees things this way.

  • VersaleanVersalean Member Posts: 1,109 Transcendent
    edited March 2018
    It's odd, because on the one hand I totally agree with you that what most raiders want is a human opponent. On the other hand 95% of my experience of Lusty pvp has: Person A enters Forbidden Area X and attacks mobs (or sets fire to things) until the very second anybody from Group B arrives, at which Person A nopes out. The situation in which two groups turned up and wanted to fight was vanishingly rare, and even then what tended to happen was that after the first wipe there would be a declaration of something being 'king OP and then the battle would take place in yellow. Anyway. That experience of chasing people around the map to Benny Hill music - people didn't want to fight Versalean, but instead wanted to piss Versalean's player off - is what killed pvp for me. To put it another way, it was the attitude of players, not the (admittedly imperfect) intricacies of game balance, that made me give pvp the middle finger for quite a long time. ETA: I guess it could be argued that the reason for the attitude is the balance. I'm sure that's true to an extent!
    Post edited by Versalean on
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