How long should it take to recover from an Org's Smob Raid?

SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,149 Mythical
I wanted people to have a bit of time to process their feelings and emotions.

For the purpose of this thread, please use numbers to support any assertions. I will update this OP to reflect the thread.

1. How long (in RL Days) should it take for an org to recover from an SMob raid? Really what is the point of the work required? Is it simply to cause them to pull together? If so this seems long enough to start to have the opposite effect. Without knowing what the goal is, how would it be possible to balance this?


2. How long does it take for your org to do its shield quest competently? Consider that the longer in RL days the process takes, that the less effective the org will be (e.g. day 1 and org may be 70% effective, but a RL month later, perhaps, only 50% or less).

2.a 5000 x needed.

2.a.i Gaudiguch (no personal reward aka no gold given): Even with significant credit rewards it took us almost a month to get half way,  5/27 to 6/24 for 2635 butterflies. Currently, (7/16) we're at 4634 so closer to 7 weeks. This will tend towards longer the more frequently raids occur.


You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."

Comments

  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    edited July 2018
    First question: Whats the numbers on how quick the shields go down? Like how many butterflys/gems/etc do you lose for having X mobs down?

    Second question: How long is each orgs "gather shadows/butterflies/etc" quest. How long would it actually take you to gather your 10? 10 mins 20 mins 30 mins?

    My initial thoughts are the effort to put it back up sound significantly harder than taking it down but on the other hand we have the situation eg Hallifax who have had what ten plus years of never having to do this work at all so its not really a frequent situation.

    I think we worked out it was about 714 hours would be the bare min in which you could go from 0 to 5000 for most orgs based on a reset time+quick gather time.


    EDIT: I'm thinking just from a quick glance that extending the cooldown of being able to slay the mobs to high near a real life month or two and also doubling the number of butterflys/etc that are added per go would fix a lot of the issues. Infrequent killing isnt really that big a problem but after reviewing gaudiguch's mob history, I think gaudiguch has been the orgs thats been hammered the most with this issue over any other org in the game.

    The issue seems to be you can kill the mobs and even if you dont do anything major to hinder essence gathering the hits are strong enough that if you wait until the cooldown resets and go kill them again then pop thats near enough to wipe the shield out.

    The more recent cases of a shield going down was three full orgs wiped, a bit of mismanagement in the order of putting the smobs back up and days of effort from the attackers to hinder essence gathering.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    Some of the org quests are  alot quicker than others. For instance, Glom's is decently easy to replace. Celest is easy, but takes longer. Seren's is easy as well but takes a while to find pixies. Mag's takes a while, Gaudi's takes a while too.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,010 Transcendent
    edited July 2018
    Hallifax and Gaudiguch have both had it rough because of Fleshpots and Spheres being pitiful, but no doubt Gaudiguch's pots have been taken advantage of more than the Spheres have. Though we're getting close to matching levels of grief as of now, though.

    If Spheres and Pots are never going to be as hard as killing Avatars, then I do feel like they should get special treatment over the other orgs. If that's not acceptable, then provide changes for all the orgs to alleviate the recovery time. I think Deichtine's suggestions

    1. Extend immunity time to 30 RL days

    2. Double mote/shadow/butterfly/flame/supplicant/soul generation

    are good starts.

    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    I wouldn't mind seeing mote regeneration double when the amounts in a shield are under, say, 40%

    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,149 Mythical
    edited July 2018
    I'll try to get better numbers, because I think there's more happening that makes things take longer.

    For instance any round you do the quest is effectively <9 widgets -- as you lose at least one and hour and it should in all cases take more than an hour assuming everything returns in an hour. There is the additional loss of one per hour during those times no one is completing the quest.  So it would be helpful to have everyone's return rate.

    There is probably in the orgs who have to scout around some loss from the person doing the quest just not wanting to spend 20%+ of the time seeking the last one or two.

    Not picking on other orgs, but if you lose one out of 10 a round that's an 10% loss. Or to look at it the other way some orgs are getting 10% to maybe close to 30% more for each round? That's huge when you're talking over a month or more.

    --Edit I'll try to put up more when I wake.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,563 Transcendent
    To add to the complexity, the way Hallifax's works you can sometimes get an extra, and sometimes can't get one of the ones you should've if the colours line up just right/wrong. We've at least got it somewhat mapped out, and with Fraesic able to make a skip sphere with a hit to efficiency we at least no longer have completely worthless spheres, but sometimes we end up just hosed on the number of spheres we can make.

    The tradeoff being that our nexus world is easy enough to navigate that it's really hard not to get all the joules.
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight Member Posts: 1,184 Transcendent
    I will agree that extending immunity and doubling recovery are a good thing.

    I have the impression that there's some kind of natural decay on them too, so if not enough people are working on recovery, their efforts may get eaten up.

    From what I can tell, seren's is little over halfway now, with lots of people laboring to improve the shield. It feels like its a big amount of work all in all.
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • TylwythTylwyth Member Posts: 1,691 Mythical
    So when you leave all the spheres/avatars/fleshpots/realmlords, you need how much power to get atleast one of them back?
    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

    image
  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight Member Posts: 1,184 Transcendent
    Tylwyth said:
    So when you leave all the spheres/avatars/fleshpots/realmlords, you need how much power to get atleast one of them back?
    I think its all in all 1000 essence for all of them, so depending on how many smobs you have its either 200 or 333 to get one back.
    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,149 Mythical
    Luce said:
    To add to the complexity, the way Hallifax's works you can sometimes get an extra, and sometimes can't get one of the ones you should've if the colours line up just right/wrong. We've at least got it somewhat mapped out, and with Fraesic able to make a skip sphere with a hit to efficiency we at least no longer have completely worthless spheres, but sometimes we end up just hosed on the number of spheres we can make.

    The tradeoff being that our nexus world is easy enough to navigate that it's really hard not to get all the joules.
    Sorry, if I have this incorrect, but don't you get less motes if you use Fraesic than if you do not? Sorry, but it is probably coming up on four years since I did that quest.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,563 Transcendent
    Fraesic always takes 4 spheres to make a gold, which counts as any colour sphere. Some/many of the spheres only take 3 spheres to get a result, and the list is theoretically structured so that all of our joules should end up at around 5 spheres total, with each sphere worth twice the motes one of Celest's 10 empowered globes is. I think overall all of the mote quests are supposed to balance out to the same number of motes/butterflies/supplicants/spikes/shadows/whateverSerenHas, but that's assuming perfect rounds every time. Of note though, I'm pretty sure Mag spectre hunting is a PITA for lowbies, and both Mag and Gaudi tend to have at least a few of the first step just missed or forgotten.

    Kethaera briefly touched on how our process works in her mechanics thread, but yeah. Bottom line is that Fraesic is less efficient than doing the quest yourself, unless you get put in a position where the chain calls for a colour you can't produce with the joules you have. I'm looking at you, Ebony.
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,387 Mythical
    or ecru. ****ing ecru
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,661 Transcendent
    edited July 2018
    Yeah. It's downright ecruciating to make it.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    Y'all just had to leave the door open. 
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • TylwythTylwyth Member Posts: 1,691 Mythical
    Luce said:
    Fraesic always takes 4 spheres to make a gold, which counts as any colour sphere. Some/many of the spheres only take 3 spheres to get a result, and the list is theoretically structured so that all of our joules should end up at around 5 spheres total, with each sphere worth twice the motes one of Celest's 10 empowered globes is. I think overall all of the mote quests are supposed to balance out to the same number of motes/butterflies/supplicants/spikes/shadows/whateverSerenHas, but that's assuming perfect rounds every time. 
     Seren uses Pixies, they sprinkle something on the glinshariflame and then are taken to the nexus.
    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

    image
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,563 Transcendent
    Tylwyth said:
    Luce said:
    Fraesic always takes 4 spheres to make a gold, which counts as any colour sphere. Some/many of the spheres only take 3 spheres to get a result, and the list is theoretically structured so that all of our joules should end up at around 5 spheres total, with each sphere worth twice the motes one of Celest's 10 empowered globes is. I think overall all of the mote quests are supposed to balance out to the same number of motes/butterflies/supplicants/spikes/shadows/whateverSerenHas, but that's assuming perfect rounds every time. 
     Seren uses Pixies, they sprinkle something on the glinshariflame and then are taken to the nexus.
    I know that, just couldn't remember if they stayed pixies when they went into the branches
  • TylwythTylwyth Member Posts: 1,691 Mythical
    Luce said:
    Tylwyth said:
    Luce said:
    Fraesic always takes 4 spheres to make a gold, which counts as any colour sphere. Some/many of the spheres only take 3 spheres to get a result, and the list is theoretically structured so that all of our joules should end up at around 5 spheres total, with each sphere worth twice the motes one of Celest's 10 empowered globes is. I think overall all of the mote quests are supposed to balance out to the same number of motes/butterflies/supplicants/spikes/shadows/whateverSerenHas, but that's assuming perfect rounds every time. 
     Seren uses Pixies, they sprinkle something on the glinshariflame and then are taken to the nexus.
    I know that, just couldn't remember if they stayed pixies when they went into the branches
    Yeah, they just kinda fly off..
    FOR pposters who aren't steingrim:

    image
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