Eliron has been working on 'genericalizing' some of Glomdoring's collegium files for other organizations to steal/repurpose if they want, all of those are player-written so different organizations may have more and/or less than Glomdoring (but obviously hearing that Glomdoring's were good for you is what we want to hear!)
I'm hoping it can become bigger than just Glomdoring's files and turn into a way for newer players to give feedback on what they would have liked to see and a way for anyone who is interested and willing to share the collegium files they've created with the goal of improving new player retention in all orgs. First iteration is here: https://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/3466/crowd-sourcing-collegium-files#latest
There's still nowhere for a true novice to learn how a native Lusternian thinks in-character before being asked to be in-character.
Could you clarify what you mean? What is unavailable? As a newb I found the city help files, newbie channel, and the website provided the info on rp and IC expectations that I was looking for. What lessons on how to rp a native Lusty were missing for your friend?
Deep-cut questions like "What kind of things are normal for modern <race>?", "Where do adventurers typically come from?", "What constitutes an appropriate backstory?", "How can I set my character apart without breaking the rules?" and similar things, plus he tends to find being able to talk to the other roleplayer and hash out a baseline for what to expect from a given scene as useful and the lack of somewhere to go for this without needing to talk to strangers first is daunting for him. In general though, the information in the histories is mostly centuries old, and only a few races and cultures have a real representative, some of whom are notably not the same now as they were at the time (Glom and Mag in particular).
Would it be worth it to offer a quick 'primer' type set of files for things like a quick profile of each of the major settlements and population centers, (Not just orgs, villages and places like Irshaw or the Kepheran hives. Anywhere new players could be from) that goes over who lives there, their general attitudes and quirks, location, and maybe a quick blurb about the quest(s) in the area?
Would it be worth it to offer a quick 'primer' type set of files for things like a quick profile of each of the major settlements and population centers, (Not just orgs, villages and places like Irshaw or the Kepheran hives. Anywhere new players could be from) that goes over who lives there, their general attitudes and quirks, location, and maybe a quick blurb about the quest(s) in the area?
Could this just be added to the wiki? I know I'm far more likely to know how to navigate a website to try and find out things about a game I'm starting, as opposed to brand new commands and interfaces to find documents in-game.
Just wanted to chime in that I've been watching this thread as player retention and growth are both issues I'm very concerned about. If you want to share your thoughts with me, either publicly or privately, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how to improve Lusternia.
Just wanted to chime in that I've been watching this thread as player retention and growth are both issues I'm very concerned about. If you want to share your thoughts with me, either publicly or privately, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how to improve Lusternia.
On the growth end, I've yet to figure out why you folks don't seem to advertise on some of the more popular Actual Play RPG podcasts; this seems like a target audience exactly what you'd be looking for (and is definitely a growing industry). More roleplaying pulled in would help, and might even draw back some other people who have left because they weren't getting as much of the in-depth stuff as they were hoping for.
Definitely seems like a way better fit than KongreGate or Newgrounds or whatever the places were that advertisements were tried on in the past.
Would it be worth it to offer a quick 'primer' type set of files for things like a quick profile of each of the major settlements and population centers, (Not just orgs, villages and places like Irshaw or the Kepheran hives. Anywhere new players could be from) that goes over who lives there, their general attitudes and quirks, location, and maybe a quick blurb about the quest(s) in the area?
Could this just be added to the wiki? I know I'm far more likely to know how to navigate a website to try and find out things about a game I'm starting, as opposed to brand new commands and interfaces to find documents in-game.
I wish sorely that players could update the wiki with some proper vetting. There are lots of things on the wiki that are not changed or updated to follow changelogs it feels like. That's just me, but I may be wrong!
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold, hungering malice.
Would it be worth it to offer a quick 'primer' type set of files for things like a quick profile of each of the major settlements and population centers, (Not just orgs, villages and places like Irshaw or the Kepheran hives. Anywhere new players could be from) that goes over who lives there, their general attitudes and quirks, location, and maybe a quick blurb about the quest(s) in the area?
Could this just be added to the wiki? I know I'm far more likely to know how to navigate a website to try and find out things about a game I'm starting, as opposed to brand new commands and interfaces to find documents in-game.
I wish sorely that players could update the wiki with some proper vetting. There are lots of things on the wiki that are not changed or updated to follow changelogs it feels like. That's just me, but I may be wrong!
They can, you just have to PM an admin to get wiki privs. I did it and now I can edit the wiki!
Would it be worth it to offer a quick 'primer' type set of files for things like a quick profile of each of the major settlements and population centers, (Not just orgs, villages and places like Irshaw or the Kepheran hives. Anywhere new players could be from) that goes over who lives there, their general attitudes and quirks, location, and maybe a quick blurb about the quest(s) in the area?
Could this just be added to the wiki? I know I'm far more likely to know how to navigate a website to try and find out things about a game I'm starting, as opposed to brand new commands and interfaces to find documents in-game.
I wish sorely that players could update the wiki with some proper vetting. There are lots of things on the wiki that are not changed or updated to follow changelogs it feels like. That's just me, but I may be wrong!
They can, you just have to PM an admin to get wiki privs. I did it and now I can edit the wiki!
Just wanted to chime in that I've been watching this thread as player retention and growth are both issues I'm very concerned about. If you want to share your thoughts with me, either publicly or privately, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how to improve Lusternia.
I put it through as an idea before this thread.
A simple survey sent to accounts that are indicating they’re disengaging from, or have left, the game would potentially be the most helpful data set for this.
It’d help give a clearer view of why people are disengaging and give weight to the suggestions that resolve the causes.
Threads like this have the issue that, at least, some of the comments are going to be from people who are generally happy with the game and the stuff that would improve their play experience wouldn’t necessarily correlate with the outcome of a survey so maybe dev time is better spent elsewhere for now.
Also I feel like pushing growth/advertising should happen after retention and reengagement of lost players is improved.
Look at the population we had in game during the quiz and events vs most of the other time. 40-50 players on line when stuff is happening. 10-15 on a day where everyone knows nothing is going to happen.
Just from comments I’ve seen, higher population during events where the reward can bump up your retire value may be people just trying to prep for starmourn.
Look at the population we had in game during the quiz and events vs most of the other time. 40-50 players on line when stuff is happening. 10-15 on a day where everyone knows nothing is going to happen.
Just from comments I’ve seen, higher population during events where the reward can bump up your retire value may be people just trying to prep for starmourn.
Those people clearly didn't get the memo, you can't retire to Starmourn. Won't be enabled for a while.
Look at the population we had in game during the quiz and events vs most of the other time. 40-50 players on line when stuff is happening. 10-15 on a day where everyone knows nothing is going to happen.
Just from comments I’ve seen, higher population during events where the reward can bump up your retire value may be people just trying to prep for starmourn.
Those people clearly didn't get the memo, you can't retire to Starmourn. Won't be enabled for a while.
Last I saw from Aurelius, it was in the range of months and a small portion may be available immediately.
Even if it was a year it’s silly to think that people wouldn’t be considering the potential large drop of credits into their accounts when retirement value does open.
Look at the population we had in game during the quiz and events vs most of the other time. 40-50 players on line when stuff is happening. 10-15 on a day where everyone knows nothing is going to happen.
Just from comments I’ve seen, higher population during events where the reward can bump up your retire value may be people just trying to prep for starmourn.
Those people clearly didn't get the memo, you can't retire to Starmourn. Won't be enabled for a while.
Last I saw from Aurelius, it was in the range of months and a small portion may be available immediately.
Even if it was a year it’s silly to think that people wouldn’t be considering the potential large drop of credits into their accounts when retirement value does open.
That's not how retirement works though, you can't put retirement credits onto your character that already exists. They have to go onto a newly-rolled character. So is the plan to just not play until retirement is enabled? Or to play and wipe your character / start over? Doesn't seem worth the effort for a chance at a few anniversary credits.
Look at the population we had in game during the quiz and events vs most of the other time. 40-50 players on line when stuff is happening. 10-15 on a day where everyone knows nothing is going to happen.
Just from comments I’ve seen, higher population during events where the reward can bump up your retire value may be people just trying to prep for starmourn.
Those people clearly didn't get the memo, you can't retire to Starmourn. Won't be enabled for a while.
Last I saw from Aurelius, it was in the range of months and a small portion may be available immediately.
Even if it was a year it’s silly to think that people wouldn’t be considering the potential large drop of credits into their accounts when retirement value does open.
That's not how retirement works though, you can't put retirement credits onto your character that already exists. They have to go onto a newly-rolled character. So is the plan to just not play until retirement is enabled? Or to play and wipe your character / start over? Doesn't seem worth the effort for a chance at a few anniversary credits.
The admin announced a while ago that everyone will get the chance once it opens up so early adopters aren’t disadvantaged.
I mentioned it here because people have indicated they are doing this.
I don't actually have much control over advertising, though I think I did look into Critical Role at one time and they were cost prohibitive. @Xenthos - feel free to email me other Actual Play podcasts that you think are good!
I don't actually have much control over advertising, though I think I did look into Critical Role at one time and they were cost prohibitive. @Xenthos - feel free to email me other Actual Play podcasts that you think are good!
Check your inbox (or just read here, am posting a copy for other people to add stuff if they want:
One of the ones I listen to the most is the One Shot Network (specifically One Shot and Campaign, but they have a bunch of other shows).
Another large one seems to be MaximumFun.org-- I have mostly just listened to Adventure Zone there but they talk about other shows on the network too.
A couple smaller ones are Knights of the Night and Nerd Poker.
And there are tons of others out there, I just have limited listening time! I have enjoyed the things though, I actually started DMing a game with some friends recently using a system being used in some of these, built my own little world for it with a custom story. It has been fun and the players are enjoying it, so I have personally found it to be encouraging roleplay enthusiasm.
PS: I didn't think that the cost for this would be all that prohibitive because I hear personal messages all the time, but perhaps I am just wrong! I never looked at costs.
I did think it was cool to see Massively playing Lusternia. That's the kind of free pub it's hard to get, though.
That wasn't free.
But was hopefully a way to get a few disenchanted MMO players looking for something far more substantial giving MUDs (and Lusternia particularly) a second look - they're still going strong!
I found both of MJ's streams to be pretty illuminating about what a true newbie experience is like too, especially the sudden jolt of hitting walls of chelp/cghelp files to read, learning skills, finding the hunting commands, etc.
And on a personal note, I have to say that @Xenthos showing up in the first one showed just how phenomenal a player he is. Thank you for being such an absolute star, and a treasure for Lusternia - emoting/helping the newbie was awesome to see!
And I kind of assumed people would know about them, but just in case:
IRE had to pay for that? I wasn't aware that was a thing.
Yeah, sorry, didn't mean to be confusing. IRE or Lusternia's admins weren't behind that, it was just a result of upping my patronage to the Massively site to cover a dedicated stream of my choice for the month. Wasn't much at all in exchange for a few extra eyeballs on the game - even if it didn't really get very far into the Lusternia-specific features. Just for a few extra newbies I'd consider it all worth it!
I wish I could think of other ways of publicising the game in a way that does capture some of the more interesting mechanics and conveys it to a much wider audience. Unfortunately most of my ideas are usually pretty unsuitable for a text game.
Plus, I think it can be difficult to pitch the current version to gamers - it's a game where at its heart there is this intense, complex and engaging PvP (not that that part is really my thing), but it operates on what could be considered a very anti-competitive playing field with an equally expansive and complex pay-to-purchase upgrade system. I usually try to advocate the complex political, tradeskill, aetherspace and influence mechanics that are deep, immersive and interesting regardless of any monetization system, but I do think there's a fundamental weakness in that PvP/nation conflict area that I suspect the combat/curing rework hasn't quite resolved on its own. That's just my opinion though!
Plus, I think it can be difficult to pitch the current version to gamers - it's a game where at its heart there is this intense, complex and engaging PvP (not that that part is really my thing), but it operates on what could be considered a very anti-competitive playing field with an equally expansive and complex pay-to-purchase upgrade system. I usually try to advocate the complex political, tradeskill, aetherspace and influence mechanics that are deep, immersive and interesting regardless of any monetization system, but I do think there's a fundamental weakness in that PvP/nation conflict area that I suspect the combat/curing rework hasn't quite resolved on its own. That's just my opinion though!
Part of the difficulty I think is because the gap is kinda shrinking with MMOs these days.
PvP exists in various different flavours now, you have completely opt-in to open world, streamlined vs complex. Systems where you can pay for an edge or where you really can't. Even objective/territory claiming (with associated benefits) is popping up regularly now.
Tradeskills here stand out for me because they're an outlet for creativity which is a definite plus, but looking objectively, other than that, they're not necessarily as deep as other MMOs. Ultimately they're just, put money in, get access to the ability to craft everything you have access to for x, which in turn is generally just go to the shops and buy the comms (maybe some bashing for aesthetic differences)
Influencing is kinda similar, it does enable the roleplay of a pacifist which you can't reasonably do in most other games. But, as an alternate version of bashing, other games have offerings that can be more complex and engaging.
For me it keeps coming to the point that where Lusternia outdoes other games is really in the RP/Interaction area. Influencing is good in relation to that, Tradeskills are the same (because you can wear exactly what your character would). In turn the stuff that seems likely to help would be things that encourage people to be online and stay online, with the space for them to still interact with other people.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
edited October 2018
Late, but chiming in that podcast advertising rates scale depending on the audience size and where the ad is located. Useful guide on that here.
I agree that sending out surveys to players who have left is a great way of addressing the retention issue. Surveymonkey or JotForm can help with that. It's possible a lot of replies will just be "life got busy," but I bet plenty will give in-depth concerns that you'll want to address before targeting new people!
On this subject, I'd personally recommend:
Bring back artisanals and bardics. Encourage the broke writing and art students to play this game! Those bardics kept my credits going when I had no disposal income for Lusternia, plus I loved seeing what other people came up with. Library rewards are not enough; they are reliant on how your personal org rewards writing. And there's no room for artists to share their work!
Make finding information about the game easy. Like someone mentioned before, a lot of the information about Lusternia online is out of date. Create incentives for people to get involved on the wiki and to clean it up! I know @Viynain used to update his site frequently and it was a treasure trove of information.
Check in on the new guilds. Is every guild up to where it should be since the new guilds were founded? Is any guild lagging behind? Does every guild have set paths, tasks, etc? If an org has an inactive patron, don't let that stop this org from getting a solid foundation. New people should have working guilds at the bare minimum.
Update the QUEST system and fix broken existing quests. This is a pain, I know, but it's confusing to a new player to want to try out a quest only to hear "Oh that one's broken/impossible, go do something else instead." Quests are a great way for players to solo Lusternia! Make it easy to find every quest on the QUEST system, and do what you can to make sure the bugged quests are addressed promptly. If there's a quest that isn't going to be fixed, possibly ever, consider ways to address that with player experience in mind.
Create helpfiles for new features ASAP. I've had a few people tell me before that they had difficulty finding syntax for an item from a new promotion, and sometimes it's because a helpfile for that item hasn't existed yet. The new bug system for help files is great, but try to get ahead of these things when you can!
That's just my observation, though - I can't speak to combat at all, and I know there's a lot of feedback you'll get on that front if you do the survey process.
Advertising can be great, but good publicity can be better, especially word of mouth and referrals. Fix your existing issues and I think it'll do a better job of drawing in new people as well as retaining existing people.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Create helpfiles for new features ASAP. I've had a few people tell me before that they had difficulty finding syntax for an item from a new promotion, and sometimes it's because a helpfile for that item hasn't existed yet. The new bug system for help files is great, but try to get ahead of these things when you can!
YES, PLEASE. Even as a veteran it's a pain in the ass remembering to go back into the announce posts to find things. If I was newer, it would only be worse.
Create helpfiles for new features ASAP. I've had a few people tell me before that they had difficulty finding syntax for an item from a new promotion, and sometimes it's because a helpfile for that item hasn't existed yet. The new bug system for help files is great, but try to get ahead of these things when you can!
YES, PLEASE. Even as a veteran it's a pain in the ass remembering to go back into the announce posts to find things. If I was newer, it would only be worse.
100%! I just copy/paste the announce posts into a HELPEDIT NEW thing now, so it can be up for easier locating in the future. Other people can help out with this too. I'm not quite sure why it's not done at the same time when the announce post goes up but it IS something we can crowdsource to help with now.
Comments
I wish sorely that players could update the wiki with some proper vetting. There are lots of things on the wiki that are not changed or updated to follow changelogs it feels like. That's just me, but I may be wrong!
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
A simple survey sent to accounts that are indicating they’re disengaging from, or have left, the game would potentially be the most helpful data set for this.
It’d help give a clearer view of why people are disengaging and give weight to the suggestions that resolve the causes.
Threads like this have the issue that, at least, some of the comments are going to be from people who are generally happy with the game and the stuff that would improve their play experience wouldn’t necessarily correlate with the outcome of a survey so maybe dev time is better spent elsewhere for now.
Also I feel like pushing growth/advertising should happen after retention and reengagement of lost players is improved.
Even if it was a year it’s silly to think that people wouldn’t be considering the potential large drop of credits into their accounts when retirement value does open.
I mentioned it here because people have indicated they are doing this.
Another large one seems to be MaximumFun.org-- I have mostly just listened to Adventure Zone there but they talk about other shows on the network too.
A couple smaller ones are Knights of the Night and Nerd Poker.
And there are tons of others out there, I just have limited listening time! I have enjoyed the things though, I actually started DMing a game with some friends recently using a system being used in some of these, built my own little world for it with a custom story. It has been fun and the players are enjoying it, so I have personally found it to be encouraging roleplay enthusiasm.
PS: I didn't think that the cost for this would be all that prohibitive because I hear personal messages all the time, but perhaps I am just wrong! I never looked at costs.
But was hopefully a way to get a few disenchanted MMO players looking for something far more substantial giving MUDs (and Lusternia particularly) a second look - they're still going strong!
I found both of MJ's streams to be pretty illuminating about what a true newbie experience is like too, especially the sudden jolt of hitting walls of chelp/cghelp files to read, learning skills, finding the hunting commands, etc.
And on a personal note, I have to say that @Xenthos showing up in the first one showed just how phenomenal a player he is. Thank you for being such an absolute star, and a treasure for Lusternia - emoting/helping the newbie was awesome to see!
And I kind of assumed people would know about them, but just in case:
I wish I could think of other ways of publicising the game in a way that does capture some of the more interesting mechanics and conveys it to a much wider audience. Unfortunately most of my ideas are usually pretty unsuitable for a text game.
Plus, I think it can be difficult to pitch the current version to gamers - it's a game where at its heart there is this intense, complex and engaging PvP (not that that part is really my thing), but it operates on what could be considered a very anti-competitive playing field with an equally expansive and complex pay-to-purchase upgrade system. I usually try to advocate the complex political, tradeskill, aetherspace and influence mechanics that are deep, immersive and interesting regardless of any monetization system, but I do think there's a fundamental weakness in that PvP/nation conflict area that I suspect the combat/curing rework hasn't quite resolved on its own. That's just my opinion though!
PvP exists in various different flavours now, you have completely opt-in to open world, streamlined vs complex. Systems where you can pay for an edge or where you really can't. Even objective/territory claiming (with associated benefits) is popping up regularly now.
Tradeskills here stand out for me because they're an outlet for creativity which is a definite plus, but looking objectively, other than that, they're not necessarily as deep as other MMOs. Ultimately they're just, put money in, get access to the ability to craft everything you have access to for x, which in turn is generally just go to the shops and buy the comms (maybe some bashing for aesthetic differences)
Influencing is kinda similar, it does enable the roleplay of a pacifist which you can't reasonably do in most other games. But, as an alternate version of bashing, other games have offerings that can be more complex and engaging.
For me it keeps coming to the point that where Lusternia outdoes other games is really in the RP/Interaction area. Influencing is good in relation to that, Tradeskills are the same (because you can wear exactly what your character would). In turn the stuff that seems likely to help would be things that encourage people to be online and stay online, with the space for them to still interact with other people.
I agree that sending out surveys to players who have left is a great way of addressing the retention issue. Surveymonkey or JotForm can help with that. It's possible a lot of replies will just be "life got busy," but I bet plenty will give in-depth concerns that you'll want to address before targeting new people!
On this subject, I'd personally recommend:
- Bring back artisanals and bardics. Encourage the broke writing and art students to play this game! Those bardics kept my credits going when I had no disposal income for Lusternia, plus I loved seeing what other people came up with. Library rewards are not enough; they are reliant on how your personal org rewards writing. And there's no room for artists to share their work!
- Make finding information about the game easy. Like someone mentioned before, a lot of the information about Lusternia online is out of date. Create incentives for people to get involved on the wiki and to clean it up! I know @Viynain used to update his site frequently and it was a treasure trove of information.
- Check in on the new guilds. Is every guild up to where it should be since the new guilds were founded? Is any guild lagging behind? Does every guild have set paths, tasks, etc? If an org has an inactive patron, don't let that stop this org from getting a solid foundation. New people should have working guilds at the bare minimum.
- Update the QUEST system and fix broken existing quests. This is a pain, I know, but it's confusing to a new player to want to try out a quest only to hear "Oh that one's broken/impossible, go do something else instead." Quests are a great way for players to solo Lusternia! Make it easy to find every quest on the QUEST system, and do what you can to make sure the bugged quests are addressed promptly. If there's a quest that isn't going to be fixed, possibly ever, consider ways to address that with player experience in mind.
- Create helpfiles for new features ASAP. I've had a few people tell me before that they had difficulty finding syntax for an item from a new promotion, and sometimes it's because a helpfile for that item hasn't existed yet. The new bug system for help files is great, but try to get ahead of these things when you can!
That's just my observation, though - I can't speak to combat at all, and I know there's a lot of feedback you'll get on that front if you do the survey process.Advertising can be great, but good publicity can be better, especially word of mouth and referrals. Fix your existing issues and I think it'll do a better job of drawing in new people as well as retaining existing people.