I'm not entirely sure why Agree went (edit: I would have Agreed with your observation), but good riddance to the other stuff!
I think both Disagree and Agree are nice to have. I'm not sure why the change in the first place, myself. 'Like', 'Heart', and 'LOL' are basically all the same thing.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
I'm not entirely sure why Agree went (edit: I would have Agreed with your observation), but good riddance to the other stuff!
I think both Disagree and Agree are nice to have. I'm not sure why the change in the first place, myself. 'Like', 'Heart', and 'LOL' are basically all the same thing.
Eh. "Disagree" doesn't really further a forum discussion. You end up with people who just lurk & flag (which doesn't contribute a whole lot). What were they disagreeing to? One sentence buried in the middle of a longer post? It's preferable, from a conversational standpoint, that people actually... say something. Let you know what the heck they are thinking, and why they disagree. Use the forums to actually speak to one another instead of just throwing flags around.
"Oh the year was 453CE, how I wish I was in Serenwilde now... aletter of marque come from the regent to the scummiest aethership I ever seen, gods damn them all...I was told we'd cruise the void for auronidion and dust, we'd fire no turrets, shed no tears.. now I'm a broken man on a Hallifax tier, the last of Saz's privateers."
See? Doesn't add anything. But at least now people can point that out without others just one-and-done flagging, and it's a lot more obvious when someone just doesn't want to put in the effort to explain themselves.
I liked having disagree as a quick poll of what people think about a post without having to read several pages down. Also, sometimes people don't have anything to contribute beyond "I don't agree with this," particularly if it comes to ideas that could improve the game. Lets say that I said that the best thing we could do for skill balance is to remove power costs from the game (blatantly untrue, of course). A person might not have the solution as to how to completely fix skills, but even a non-com could see how stupid that would be and disagree with it.
As for the Agree button, that should really be around still in my opinion. Let's say that I get hit by a car tomorrow (Don't worry, not going to happen, tomorrow is a Sunday) and that I post about how bad the food in the hospital is. People might agree with that, but I sure hope that no-one would be liking it.
Finally, let's be honest here, LOL is just the dislike button that we were never allowed.
I liked having disagree as a quick poll of what people think about a post without having to read several pages down. Also, sometimes people don't have anything to contribute beyond "I don't agree with this," particularly if it comes to ideas that could improve the game. Lets say that I said that the best thing we could do for skill balance is to remove power costs from the game (blatantly untrue, of course). A person might not have the solution as to how to completely fix skills, but even a non-com could see how stupid that would be and disagree with it.
As for the Agree button, that should really be around still in my opinion. Let's say that I get hit by a car tomorrow (Don't worry, not going to happen, tomorrow is a Sunday) and that I post about how bad the food in the hospital is. People might agree with that, but I sure hope that no-one would be liking it.
Finally, let's be honest here, LOL is just the dislike button that we were never allowed.
It's hard to disagree with your interpretation of the LOL button, but someone could also at least plausibly use it when someone says something amusing / funny as well. It's at least not a universal negative, though lots of room for passive-aggressive there. Doesn't seem to modify points scores. Maybe it could add 1 point so if you do it passive-aggressively at someone you're upping their rank. :P
I feel the same way about the agree button, though in most cases you can use the like instead. In your specific example, we could use the button (and in a lot of other cases where people have had forum posts where none of the reactions fit the personal situation being described, a would have been nice to have too).
But on the forums, the flags often weren't used as a "quick poll" of anything, just used to attempt to shape behaviour. Partisan flagging was definitely a phenomenon, and getting rid of it in favour of commentary is a decided improvement in my opinion. Maybe that's why the Agree button went away as well, because it would provide a "lopsided" view of things? I don't know. I do know that it's a lot easier to police / review forum posts themselves vs. flags, though.
I liked having disagree as a quick poll of what people think about a post without having to read several pages down. Also, sometimes people don't have anything to contribute beyond "I don't agree with this," particularly if it comes to ideas that could improve the game. Lets say that I said that the best thing we could do for skill balance is to remove power costs from the game (blatantly untrue, of course). A person might not have the solution as to how to completely fix skills, but even a non-com could see how stupid that would be and disagree with it.
As for the Agree button, that should really be around still in my opinion. Let's say that I get hit by a car tomorrow (Don't worry, not going to happen, tomorrow is a Sunday) and that I post about how bad the food in the hospital is. People might agree with that, but I sure hope that no-one would be liking it.
Finally, let's be honest here, LOL is just the dislike button that we were never allowed.
It's hard to disagree with your interpretation of the LOL button, but someone could also at least plausibly use it when someone says something amusing / funny as well. It's at least not a universal negative, though lots of room for passive-aggressive there. Doesn't seem to modify points scores. Maybe it could add 1 point so if you do it passive-aggressively at someone you're upping their rank. :P
I feel the same way about the agree button, though in most cases you can use the like instead. In your specific example, we could use the button (and in a lot of other cases where people have had forum posts where none of the reactions fit the personal situation being described, a would have been nice to have too).
But on the forums, the flags often weren't used as a "quick poll" of anything, just used to attempt to shape behaviour. Partisan flagging was definitely a phenomenon, and getting rid of it in favour of commentary is a decided improvement in my opinion. Maybe that's why the Agree button went away as well, because it would provide a "lopsided" view of things? I don't know. I do know that it's a lot easier to police / review forum posts themselves vs. flags, though.
Part of it is what Nelras said. For a decent number of of my idea posts, I often looked at the disagree/agrees (both who voted and the number) for a quick opinion on the matter. A lot of things that people disagree with don't need posts (maybe a person simply doesn't like it) or why they disagree has already been said, we don't need 10 posts saying 'I disagree because of the reasons Xenthos said'.
I mean, the next step is to just write a post saying "Disagreed" to something you disagree with. Maybe quoting the post that you disagree with.
You can't escape people disagreeing with you, and people don't need to sit down and write out a long, eloquent post describing why they disagree with you. More than likely, they've already said all they wanted to say, or they feel as though they'll be ignored.
The new disagree button will likely be the LOL button, used to ridicule rather than express humor, like someone already said.
Also, if you really think the Disagree button was "useless", I'm sorry that getting a quick straw poll on how people feel about a certain post is so debilitating. Must've been a real travesty to see all those disagree flags on posts by Glomdorians and all the agree posts on literally anyone else. : ^)
Also, if you really think the Disagree button was "useless", I'm sorry that getting a quick straw poll on how people feel about a certain post is so debilitating. Must've been a real travesty to see all those disagree flags on posts by Glomdorians and all the agree posts on literally anyone else. : ^)
Huh. Almost as if you are describing "partisan flagging".
Edit: There are suddenly a lot of LOL reactions on this page. Someone must be amused.
Indeed, and look at how much it contributes! Though glad to be of amusement.
Swap out the LOL for Agree!
That just leads to a situation where people are discouraged from showing any opinion other than that of the person posting. "You can like me, or you can agree with me, with just the click of a button. But if you want to disagree, it is going to be much more effort." That would just lead to skewed appearances. If there are going to be response buttons then there needs to be a way to express a negative opinion, be it 'disagree', 'LOL' or even the dreaded 'dislike'.
Indeed, and look at how much it contributes! Though glad to be of amusement.
Swap out the LOL for Agree!
That just leads to a situation where people are discouraged from showing any opinion other than that of the person posting. "You can like me, or you can agree with me, with just the click of a button. But if you want to disagree, it is going to be much more effort." That would just lead to skewed appearances. If there are going to be response buttons then there needs to be a way to express a negative opinion, be it 'disagree', 'LOL' or even the dreaded 'dislike'.
There is a way to express such an opinion. You have just done so here. I do not feel that button-pushes are a useful way of doing so, and Maligorn's post is a pretty telling example of why. Maybe some people do want to use them the way you do, but others do not, and there is no effective way to either assess or moderate a button. Having them leads to abuse of them.
That just leads to a situation where people are discouraged from showing any opinion other than that of the person posting. "You can like me, or you can agree with me, with just the click of a button. But if you want to disagree, it is going to be much more effort." That would just lead to skewed appearances. If there are going to be response buttons then there needs to be a way to express a negative opinion, be it 'disagree', 'LOL' or even the dreaded 'dislike'.
I found the Disagree and Dislike button, it's now called 'Flag' /sarcasm
Indeed, and look at how much it contributes! Though glad to be of amusement.
Swap out the LOL for Agree!
That just leads to a situation where people are discouraged from showing any opinion other than that of the person posting. "You can like me, or you can agree with me, with just the click of a button. But if you want to disagree, it is going to be much more effort." That would just lead to skewed appearances. If there are going to be response buttons then there needs to be a way to express a negative opinion, be it 'disagree', 'LOL' or even the dreaded 'dislike'.
There is a way to express such an opinion. You have just done so here. I do not feel that button-pushes are a useful way of doing so, and Maligorn's post is a pretty telling example of why. Maybe some people do want to use them the way you do, but others do not, and there is no effective way to either assess or moderate a button. Having them leads to abuse of them.
I know you fixated on my second post, but my first one was the real argument for having a disagree button.
Indeed, and look at how much it contributes! Though glad to be of amusement.
Swap out the LOL for Agree!
That just leads to a situation where people are discouraged from showing any opinion other than that of the person posting. "You can like me, or you can agree with me, with just the click of a button. But if you want to disagree, it is going to be much more effort." That would just lead to skewed appearances. If there are going to be response buttons then there needs to be a way to express a negative opinion, be it 'disagree', 'LOL' or even the dreaded 'dislike'.
There is a way to express such an opinion. You have just done so here. I do not feel that button-pushes are a useful way of doing so, and Maligorn's post is a pretty telling example of why. Maybe some people do want to use them the way you do, but others do not, and there is no effective way to either assess or moderate a button. Having them leads to abuse of them.
I would rather have something that could be abused, but still give me some notion of what people think, than nothing at all.
If I post an idea and 10 people like, via the button, but 30 people don't like the idea, and don't express that dislike because there is no button (and would rather not post due to the effort or whatever reason), then this tells me nothing and makes it seem like the idea is well liked when the opposite is the truth.
@Ayisdra This is all just a conspiracy to raise post counts across all forum users and only spread positivity! JOIN US! Resistance is futile, as I will only see the positive responses to justify my words!
Indeed, and look at how much it contributes! Though glad to be of amusement.
Swap out the LOL for Agree!
That just leads to a situation where people are discouraged from showing any opinion other than that of the person posting. "You can like me, or you can agree with me, with just the click of a button. But if you want to disagree, it is going to be much more effort." That would just lead to skewed appearances. If there are going to be response buttons then there needs to be a way to express a negative opinion, be it 'disagree', 'LOL' or even the dreaded 'dislike'.
There is a way to express such an opinion. You have just done so here. I do not feel that button-pushes are a useful way of doing so, and Maligorn's post is a pretty telling example of why. Maybe some people do want to use them the way you do, but others do not, and there is no effective way to either assess or moderate a button. Having them leads to abuse of them.
I would rather have something that could be abused, but still give me some notion of what people think, than nothing at all.
If I post an idea and 10 people like, via the button, but 30 people don't like the idea, and don't express that dislike because there is no button (and would rather not post due to the effort or whatever reason), then this tells me nothing and makes it seem like the idea is well liked when the opposite is the truth.
If that many people do not like the idea, someone will say so. Those thirty people, if they really have nothing to say, can react with the response and let it go there. You can still gauge that. You definitely don't have "nothing at all." With that mind, excising the stuff that gets abused is only an improvement. It is not like anyone has lost the ability to disagree, they have just lost the ability to use flags to troll or curate content.
I have Googled VanillaForums' suggestions for flags. This is from their own documentation:
"There is always the potential for abuse when you open up avenues of self-curation in a community. In general, we discourage the use of any negative reactions unless there are established guidelines for their use in your community."
The flags are, by VF's own intent, meant to be a curating feature.
I think disagree button should be there because you can express your disagreement of an opinion without it implying a dislike of the person who posted that opinion. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I think negatively of you as a person, or the post you made (which Flag sort of implies).
And people here use the Flag button too liberally imo (abuse is a strong word and I think it should be reserved for someone actually spouting abusive words/slurs etc). Removing the disagree button is only going to increase the liberal use of Flag.
You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
Indeed, and look at how much it contributes! Though glad to be of amusement.
Swap out the LOL for Agree!
That just leads to a situation where people are discouraged from showing any opinion other than that of the person posting. "You can like me, or you can agree with me, with just the click of a button. But if you want to disagree, it is going to be much more effort." That would just lead to skewed appearances. If there are going to be response buttons then there needs to be a way to express a negative opinion, be it 'disagree', 'LOL' or even the dreaded 'dislike'.
There is a way to express such an opinion. You have just done so here. I do not feel that button-pushes are a useful way of doing so, and Maligorn's post is a pretty telling example of why. Maybe some people do want to use them the way you do, but others do not, and there is no effective way to either assess or moderate a button. Having them leads to abuse of them.
I would rather have something that could be abused, but still give me some notion of what people think, than nothing at all.
If I post an idea and 10 people like, via the button, but 30 people don't like the idea, and don't express that dislike because there is no button (and would rather not post due to the effort or whatever reason), then this tells me nothing and makes it seem like the idea is well liked when the opposite is the truth.
If that many people do not like the idea, someone will say so. Those thirty people, if they really have nothing to say, can react with the response and let it go there. You can still gauge that. You definitely don't have "nothing at all." With that mind, excising the stuff that gets abused is only an improvement. It is not like anyone has lost the ability to disagree, they have just lost the ability to use flags to troll or curate content.
I have Googled VanillaForums' suggestions for flags. This is from their own documentation:
"There is always the potential for abuse when you open up avenues of self-curation in a community. In general, we discourage the use of any negative reactions unless there are established guidelines for their use in your community."
The flags are, by VF's own intent, meant to be a curating feature.
so then my question - would you have have 30 posts saying 'disagree' or 30 points on a flag? I personally would rather not have the former. I also wouldn't call a 'disagree' a negative reaction.
I think disagree button should be there because you can express your disagreement of an opinion without it implying a dislike of the person who posted that opinion. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I think negatively of you as a person, or the post you made (which Flag sort of implies).
And people here use the Flag button too liberally imo (abuse is a strong word and I think it should be reserved for someone actually spouting abusive words/slurs etc). Removing the disagree button is only going to increase the liberal use of Flag.
Try clicking on Flag now? I only see Report there. Abuse and Spam are also now gone (and cannot be abused any more either).
Ayisdra: I would rather have the posts. Hopefully at least some of those people will actually say something useful to the discussion in their post. Can't expect that of everyone, but I would like to think most people genuinely interested in disagreeing would actually point out which part in particular is the bad idea (perhaps it is just a specific part of the post instead of the whole thing, which a flag just does not get you).
Comments
-Kilian
-Kilian
As for the Agree button, that should really be around still in my opinion. Let's say that I get hit by a car tomorrow (Don't worry, not going to happen, tomorrow is a Sunday) and that I post about how bad the food in the hospital is. People might agree with that, but I sure hope that no-one would be liking it.
Finally, let's be honest here, LOL is just the dislike button that we were never allowed.
Heart is the new Agree
LOL is the new Disagree
Like, Comment, and Subscribe to this comment, it really helps me as a content creator know what kind of content to produce!
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
And people here use the Flag button too liberally imo (abuse is a strong word and I think it should be reserved for someone actually spouting abusive words/slurs etc). Removing the disagree button is only going to increase the liberal use of Flag.