Vernal Ascendant Mechanics Critique



  • NydekionNydekion Member Posts: 14 Novice
    edited June 2013
    Well, the problem is that if you don't pull power from the're kind of circumventing the whole lore about how Vernals are made in the first place in which case what you're actually creating wouldn't be an ascendant anymore and therefore shouldn't have ascendant-like powers nor carry a similar title/status as one.

    As far as the improvements go, I envisioned them to work as they do for ascendants now. Whatever you gain during your term would go dormant once the term ends and may be relearned again for minimal cost if you are chosen to carry on another term so progress is never really "lost", it's just temporarily turned off until the next round.

    The reason I suggest they both come from the same pool of Vernal Demis is because it gives individuals and organizations more flexibility in moving between a combatant-type ascendant to a cultural-type ascendant if they fit the requirements for both. An organization can entirely choose to forgo this type of ascendant altogether, but I believe, if a reasonably good range of moderate persistent bonuses and somewhat stronger temporary bonuses, it'd be to the org's disadvantage to ignore it altogether.
  • MaellioMaellio Member Posts: 488 Fabled
    I'm definitely for any ideas that increase the viability of noncom ascendants, being biased in that department as I am and envious of several of the more abstractly useful powers I'll likely never see. I am however a little wary (and biased against) imposing a time limit on noncom 'ascendants' as a key factor in the theory crafting.

    Yes, the argument can be made that it imposes a similar logical limit of benefit as the domoth conflict and giving a wider pool of people access, but considering the domoths don't really change hands too much and it wouldn't necessarily either guarantee shifts or put noncom ascendants on the same level of weight as com ascendants (which I know was part of the earlier discussion, but I'm focusing on the theory at hand) I'd much rather design the idea around raising noncoms in a permanent state. 


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  • NydekionNydekion Member Posts: 14 Novice
    Well, the problem with a permanent non-comm Ascendant is similar to the issues that currently surround Vernal Ascendant: endless obligation to be available to an organization and a need to limit their number for the sake of balance (and to a lesser extent, uniqueness).

    As others can tell you, having to constantly be obligated to an organization either expressly or implied becomes an exhausting task over time, particularly when real life decides to remind us of its priority in all matters. That's why I'm more inclined to support Llandros' idea of temporary, limited terms for a couple of reasons: a chance to allow greater access and offer slightly stronger powers by virtue that each org can only have one at any given time. As a nod to standard domoth bonus (and give reason to raise non-comm individuals), a Vernal Transcendent could offer an org-wide 10% bonus to claiming speed for any other aligned Vernals of that org, giving it a whole "we uplift those who uplift us" aura to the position.
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,427 Transcendent
    edited June 2013
    I strongly approve of Nihta's suggestions. I think that providing more room for recognizing cultural contributions in a hard coded way might help to encourage more people to get involved in it. Keeping it separate from the ascendent mechanics and demigodhood would help to keep it accessible to any culture people who don't care to grind their way to level 100.

    The best part is probably using culture as the resource to raise visionaries, and along those lines any powers visionaries get should probably be bought using some individual-level resource that they get from doing cultural things. Maybe let the gods give it out too, for running events and things.

    Additionally, it would be a neat small detail sort of thing to have the title that these people are listed under vary from org to org. My thinking here being that this would integrate very well with Hallifax's highest caste, and that it would be cool to have Hallifax's people listed as such, but that other orgs would need to have their own things that go along with that.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    Well, not all Vernals were fighters per se. Some were tacticians, others, like Vesterra, aided mortals and helped them create constructs of power and warned them whenever the Soulless were at hand and others who could not fight created things to help fight the Soulless, Menestre with her Iron Ladies, was implied to be one such Vernal. We have the Harmony, Beauty, and Knowledge Domoths for a reason. 
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"


  • LlandrosLlandros Member Posts: 457 Gifted
    edited June 2013
    You have to keep in mind that our vernals are ghetto versions of the old ones. 

    Ascendants cost freakish amounts of power to raise and have a way that is specific to them to gain it back plus other benefits for the city. 

    Spending 2 million power to have the most badass librarian evah! would be sweet but people can be awesome librarians without 2 million power.

    A Demi can hold a domoth but it is a lot harder and more time consuming and costs them about a million essence every few days to upgrade it. Plus the annoyance factor of those helping who know full well it doesn't have to take this long.

    In the current structure, raising someone who can't or won't hold domoths from now until the end of time (assuming they have to support needed to do so) puts their org at a disadvantage and is not the best possible use of power.

    Of course this is an unreasonable expectation for any human and is an unfair and frequently unfun burden but it is how the system works. Raising an 'RP Vernal' would be a massive nut punch to the entire org. It has to be handled separately. 

  • NydekionNydekion Member Posts: 14 Novice
    That's why I was suggesting for RP Vernals to have a somewhat modified version of the domoth claiming bonus. Instead of giving themselves a 33% bonus in claim time and +50 game days in holding time, they would give EVERY other aligned Vernal (both ascendant and demigod) in the city a 10% bonus to claim time on top of what they already have (if applicable) and something like a +15 game day bonus to holding time. So while the RP Vernal themselves may never hold a domoth, they help boost the effectiveness (ie. morale) of other Vernals in the org.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,863 Transcendent
    That would be some crazy stacking. The last thing we need is less window for Domoth fights, and them to come along even less frequently than they already do.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!

  • NydekionNydekion Member Posts: 14 Novice
    edited June 2013
    Eh, it wouldn't be as crazy as it might seem since the bonus would not apply to True Ascendants. Therefore claiming a domoth by a Vernal Demigod would take 50 minutes and a domoth claim by a Vernal Ascendant would be 34 minutes. Still quite within reason.

    Keep in mind the intention is to only have 1 slot available to an org for an RP-type Vernal, so this bonus would not stack on itself.
  • KioKio Member Posts: 992 Mythical
    Morkarion said:
    That would be some crazy stacking. The last thing we need is less window for Domoth fights, and them to come along even less frequently than they already do.
    There are fights for domoths?  When do I need to be here to see this happen?
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk Member Posts: 1,659 Transcendent
    I think a better change would be one that actually takes away the focus on bashing from the Domoth realms and instead focus on the Domoths themselves and make the challenges similar to Ascension challenges.

    Have any time you claim the Justice or Harmony domoths, you have to win influencing battles against the mobs to earn the 3600 points.

    Chaos can be similar to the Chaos Seal Challenge in that it puts you in a ring and you have to catch the Golden Hamster before you are caught by the gigantic Hamster. Perhaps you have to hold the golden hamster for 3600 points worth, and any time you are in the room with the gigantic Hamster, you lose points.

    Knowledge Domoth can actually be about your knowledge, like having to answer quiz questions to increase your Domoth score, instead of just killing paradoxes. Could work exactly like a quiz, with the challenger being asked questions and having a certain amount of time to answer, with each question worth varying amount of points till you either run out of time or hit 3600 points worth.

    I think changing the mechanics of the Domoths to reflect a greater variety of skills needed to control one instead of just an ability to survive with high health and deal out higher damage with criticals would be more successful in the long run rather than changing how Vernals work.

    I also think an expansion of powers or retooling of a lot of the Vernal powers are needed, since a lot of them are really, really, really lackluster. A couple of ideas of new powers:

    -  an increase in experience gain, esteem gains, offerings
    - allows you to convert yourself to a mobile-nexus for temporary time/power (allows others to link to you for power, or rezz fallen allies).

    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • NydekionNydekion Member Posts: 14 Novice
    Breath of Life: The Domotheos of Life is a font of healing and energy, and can be used to breathe life into the fallen, either upon the field of battle or at home.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,012 Transcendent
    Nydekion said:
    Breath of Life: The Domotheos of Life is a font of healing and energy, and can be used to breathe life into the fallen, either upon the field of battle or at home.
    Resurrections       : 875

    Some of us have managed to locate this one!
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