Reducing the Number of Player Orgs

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  • Makai said:
    1v1 just lets a change of theme happen too, heck could have all 7 archetypes in each of those orgs and have two versions of each. Drops effective classes to 14, they share core things, maybe secondaries change at best. Themes could be civilization versus nature, resistance versus soulless, good versus evil, order versus chaos, plenty of themes that have a duality factor, why limit?
    You're just throwing out dichotomies here and not discussing the reality of the orgs that those represent

    Civilisation VS nature - Do you mean that you're going to have the Light and the Taint in the same org, i.e players who want to be "good" aligned will have to work with "evil" aligned ones?
    Resistance VS soulless | Good vs evil | order vs chaos - These are all basically the same, so where do players interested in nature themes go here? Probably another game.


    You can also pump out Horde vs Alliance, that doesn't mean that it will work for Lusternia and a solution that works for Lusternia is what matters.
  • edited April 2019
    A slight tangent, I still hate the "brief description" of the orgs when you register. If you've forgotten, here it is:

    Cities:
             Celest (City of Light)        Magnagora (City of Evil)
             Gaudiguch (City of Chaos)     Hallifax (City of Order)

    Communes:
             Serenwilde (Neutral Forest)   Glomdoring (Dark Forest)

    It betrays so much of each org's identity, and it's a testament of Lusternia's misguided drift into the realm of "flashy and simple" at the expense of the depth and complexity that made Lusternia exceptional in the first place.
    Adding to this

    and you're playing a character of Serenwilde as such, until one day, suddenly, "you're doing it all wrong!! Serenwilde is actually dark and edgy"
    You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
  • Serenwilde is not just dark and edgy, it is all sorts of things. It is just not all snuggles, licking, and happy times. The issue in Serenwilde is the latter group try and say that is what Serenwilde is supposed to be, because of the Blurb you just posted, and they have never actually read the Histories. The former group are like "no, Serenwilde is both." The Latter group is also pretty blatant about snuggling, licking, romping, pouncing anyone they see anywhere they see them. The former group is not allowed to murder them for it :D
  • Saran said:
    Makai said:
    1v1 just lets a change of theme happen too, heck could have all 7 archetypes in each of those orgs and have two versions of each. Drops effective classes to 14, they share core things, maybe secondaries change at best. Themes could be civilization versus nature, resistance versus soulless, good versus evil, order versus chaos, plenty of themes that have a duality factor, why limit?
    You're just throwing out dichotomies here and not discussing the reality of the orgs that those represent

    Civilisation VS nature - Do you mean that you're going to have the Light and the Taint in the same org, i.e players who want to be "good" aligned will have to work with "evil" aligned ones?
    Resistance VS soulless | Good vs evil | order vs chaos - These are all basically the same, so where do players interested in nature themes go here? Probably another game.


    You can also pump out Horde vs Alliance, that doesn't mean that it will work for Lusternia and a solution that works for Lusternia is what matters.
    At the mentioning of all 7 archetypes per side, hints that Nature themes are apart of it. We already have the 'good' and 'evil' forests, etc. Also, in the case of civilization versus nature it becomes a story telling arc. The Basin can be torn apart with tatters remaining, each 'side' adopting a nexus and whatever planar connections, maybe mages get merged into just a straight up Magi, all 4 elements fused together once more (look at Klaymech, it's happened before in the lore) and that's how they meld. Nature side would have druids to counter, civi would have some kind of guardians, and nature having the wiccans. There is always a way to make it work, thematically and story-telling wise. If it because just themes of dichotomies then you can make each side have access to all 7 like I said and just have a themed version of each. Not a hard concept I would hope.
  • We can both agree that that blurb is very misleading, though?
    You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
  • edited April 2019
    It 100% is, I think we talked about this on Discord :)

    It doesn't help that because there is nothing Dark and Edgy can do to the Licker without facing punishment from the Commune it leads to one of two things.

    1: Dark Edgy leaves to new org where that does not happen, causing org to fall into a state of never succeeding
    2: Dark Edgy tolerates it, but bitches on discord about it causing hard feelings between players

    Both results end up with Licker thinking it is acceptable behaviour and encouraging more Lickers to act that way
  • edited April 2019
    Yeah, I remember. Just thought I'd put it out here too, since someone brought up the point of misleading blurbs.

    Edit: Clarifying that I didn't post that for a "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Just pointing out that when people are choosing the org in character creation, they see this, and so unless you've played before, it's more likely that someone who is looking for a "peaceful" or, as some people might call it, "snuggly" place is going to choose the org. 

    And, maybe I don't remember this or missed it, but I don't remember an instance in Serenwilde where, when someone behaved inappropriately to somebody else and they complained about it, the Commune decided to punish the complainer instead of the perpetrator.

    (That went a bit off topic, sorry. But main point: the blurbs are misleading!)
    You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
  • Agreed, considering good and evil are entirely subjective, but Celest is still the guiltiest of all evils :tongue:
  • Hmm notice how Celest is "the City of Light" and not "the City of Good" but Magnagora definitely is the "City of Evil" :lol:
    You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
  • Makai said:
    Saran said:
    Makai said:
    1v1 just lets a change of theme happen too, heck could have all 7 archetypes in each of those orgs and have two versions of each. Drops effective classes to 14, they share core things, maybe secondaries change at best. Themes could be civilization versus nature, resistance versus soulless, good versus evil, order versus chaos, plenty of themes that have a duality factor, why limit?
    You're just throwing out dichotomies here and not discussing the reality of the orgs that those represent

    Civilisation VS nature - Do you mean that you're going to have the Light and the Taint in the same org, i.e players who want to be "good" aligned will have to work with "evil" aligned ones?
    Resistance VS soulless | Good vs evil | order vs chaos - These are all basically the same, so where do players interested in nature themes go here? Probably another game.


    You can also pump out Horde vs Alliance, that doesn't mean that it will work for Lusternia and a solution that works for Lusternia is what matters.
    At the mentioning of all 7 archetypes per side, hints that Nature themes are apart of it. We already have the 'good' and 'evil' forests, etc. Also, in the case of civilization versus nature it becomes a story telling arc. The Basin can be torn apart with tatters remaining, each 'side' adopting a nexus and whatever planar connections, maybe mages get merged into just a straight up Magi, all 4 elements fused together once more (look at Klaymech, it's happened before in the lore) and that's how they meld. Nature side would have druids to counter, civi would have some kind of guardians, and nature having the wiccans. There is always a way to make it work, thematically and story-telling wise. If it because just themes of dichotomies then you can make each side have access to all 7 like I said and just have a themed version of each. Not a hard concept I would hope.
    You're being super generic about what you're talking about to the point that it's impossible for others to meaningfully engage with whatever you're actually suggesting.

    For example, if you're saying all 7 archetypes per side and then talking about nature vs civilisation then it makes no sense in the context of lusternia (ie the one that matters). Because the reality is that four of the archetypes are ultimately just nature-specific and civilisation-specific variations of each other (to the point the final archetype is known as the sixth not eighth), so it doesn't make sense for "civilisation" to have nature archetypes.

    If you think there's a way to make it work, then actually make a suggestion of what that would actually look like. Tell us where people who like concepts from each of the existing orgs would end up.
  • Saran said:
    Makai said:
    Saran said:
    Makai said:
    1v1 just lets a change of theme happen too, heck could have all 7 archetypes in each of those orgs and have two versions of each. Drops effective classes to 14, they share core things, maybe secondaries change at best. Themes could be civilization versus nature, resistance versus soulless, good versus evil, order versus chaos, plenty of themes that have a duality factor, why limit?
    You're just throwing out dichotomies here and not discussing the reality of the orgs that those represent

    Civilisation VS nature - Do you mean that you're going to have the Light and the Taint in the same org, i.e players who want to be "good" aligned will have to work with "evil" aligned ones?
    Resistance VS soulless | Good vs evil | order vs chaos - These are all basically the same, so where do players interested in nature themes go here? Probably another game.


    You can also pump out Horde vs Alliance, that doesn't mean that it will work for Lusternia and a solution that works for Lusternia is what matters.
    At the mentioning of all 7 archetypes per side, hints that Nature themes are apart of it. We already have the 'good' and 'evil' forests, etc. Also, in the case of civilization versus nature it becomes a story telling arc. The Basin can be torn apart with tatters remaining, each 'side' adopting a nexus and whatever planar connections, maybe mages get merged into just a straight up Magi, all 4 elements fused together once more (look at Klaymech, it's happened before in the lore) and that's how they meld. Nature side would have druids to counter, civi would have some kind of guardians, and nature having the wiccans. There is always a way to make it work, thematically and story-telling wise. If it because just themes of dichotomies then you can make each side have access to all 7 like I said and just have a themed version of each. Not a hard concept I would hope.
    You're being super generic about what you're talking about to the point that it's impossible for others to meaningfully engage with whatever you're actually suggesting.

    For example, if you're saying all 7 archetypes per side and then talking about nature vs civilisation then it makes no sense in the context of lusternia (ie the one that matters). Because the reality is that four of the archetypes are ultimately just nature-specific and civilisation-specific variations of each other (to the point the final archetype is known as the sixth not eighth), so it doesn't make sense for "civilisation" to have nature archetypes.

    If you think there's a way to make it work, then actually make a suggestion of what that would actually look like. Tell us where people who like concepts from each of the existing orgs would end up.
    Bolded the part that explains your confusion for you. I said if it was civilization versus nature, you'd have mages v druids, guardians v wiccan. I made a special case example specifically for that, where the others that are just opposites could have access to all 7. It makes sense when you read it, I promise.
  • Coraline said:

    Edit: Clarifying that I didn't post that for a "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Just pointing out that when people are choosing the org in character creation, they see this, and so unless you've played before, it's more likely that someone who is looking for a "peaceful" or, as some people might call it, "snuggly" place is going to choose the org. and you're playing a character of Serenwilde as such, until one day, suddenly, "you're doing it all wrong!! Serenwilde is actually dark and edgy"
    Eh... maybe it's just me, but I don't read 'magical place of fae and elfen' and think 'pouncing on and licking people randomly.' It's pretty vague, so I'm skeptical that the reason snugglers tend to congregate there - and have for a while - is solely due to that description. In books I've read, both elves and fairies can be quite hardcore and even sinister, in the case of the latter. 

    But I do hate that Magnagora is called the 'city of evil.' City of Strength/Domination/Taint? I realize most truebies aren't going to know what Taint means, but evil is subjective and inaccurate. Every org has done things that could be considered evil, and thematically, Glomdoring's ideology and practices are no less "evil" than Magnagora's.
    "Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
  • Kethaera said:
    Coraline said:

    Edit: Clarifying that I didn't post that for a "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Just pointing out that when people are choosing the org in character creation, they see this, and so unless you've played before, it's more likely that someone who is looking for a "peaceful" or, as some people might call it, "snuggly" place is going to choose the org. and you're playing a character of Serenwilde as such, until one day, suddenly, "you're doing it all wrong!! Serenwilde is actually dark and edgy"
    Eh... maybe it's just me, but I don't read 'magical place of fae and elfen' and think 'pouncing on and licking people randomly.' It's pretty vague, so I'm skeptical that the reason snugglers tend to congregate there - and have for a while - is solely due to that description. In books I've read, both elves and fairies can be quite hardcore and even sinister, in the case of the latter. 

    But I do hate that Magnagora is called the 'city of evil.' City of Strength/Domination/Taint? I realize most truebies aren't going to know what Taint means, but evil is subjective and inaccurate. Every org has done things that could be considered evil, and thematically, Glomdoring's ideology and practices are no less "evil" than Magnagora's.
    Glom's blurb is pretty sinister and dark sounding, and by contrast, Seren's had a "Disney Forest" kind of sound (by contrast, and by the description given).

    I actually had a nice time there when I started out. Nobody was inappropriate that I remember. 
    You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
  • Coraline said:
    Kethaera said:
    Coraline said:

    Edit: Clarifying that I didn't post that for a "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Just pointing out that when people are choosing the org in character creation, they see this, and so unless you've played before, it's more likely that someone who is looking for a "peaceful" or, as some people might call it, "snuggly" place is going to choose the org. and you're playing a character of Serenwilde as such, until one day, suddenly, "you're doing it all wrong!! Serenwilde is actually dark and edgy"
    Eh... maybe it's just me, but I don't read 'magical place of fae and elfen' and think 'pouncing on and licking people randomly.' It's pretty vague, so I'm skeptical that the reason snugglers tend to congregate there - and have for a while - is solely due to that description. In books I've read, both elves and fairies can be quite hardcore and even sinister, in the case of the latter. 

    But I do hate that Magnagora is called the 'city of evil.' City of Strength/Domination/Taint? I realize most truebies aren't going to know what Taint means, but evil is subjective and inaccurate. Every org has done things that could be considered evil, and thematically, Glomdoring's ideology and practices are no less "evil" than Magnagora's.
    Glom's blurb is pretty sinister and dark sounding, and by contrast, Seren's had a "Disney Forest" kind of sound (by contrast, and by the description given).

    I actually had a nice time there when I started out. Nobody was inappropriate that I remember. 
    Ah, well, if it sounds Disney, I'd expect less licking... 

    I didn't leave Serenwilde because of the snugglers, I can say that much. It does at least seem to be worse than from what I remember.
    "Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
  • Back in history, there was always the people that were just 'carefree' and roamed around 'skyclad' because "It's what Nature intended!" as the reason. It caught on and has just kind of stuck, though a good portion of it has disappeared. But regardless the game I go to, the org, the guild, whatever, I always run into their one person that follows that mindset. Anyway, lets move off that and get back to our preferences on the game going forward >.>
  • edited April 2019
    Kethaera said:
    Coraline said:
    Kethaera said:
    Coraline said:

    Edit: Clarifying that I didn't post that for a "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Just pointing out that when people are choosing the org in character creation, they see this, and so unless you've played before, it's more likely that someone who is looking for a "peaceful" or, as some people might call it, "snuggly" place is going to choose the org. and you're playing a character of Serenwilde as such, until one day, suddenly, "you're doing it all wrong!! Serenwilde is actually dark and edgy"
    Eh... maybe it's just me, but I don't read 'magical place of fae and elfen' and think 'pouncing on and licking people randomly.' It's pretty vague, so I'm skeptical that the reason snugglers tend to congregate there - and have for a while - is solely due to that description. In books I've read, both elves and fairies can be quite hardcore and even sinister, in the case of the latter. 

    But I do hate that Magnagora is called the 'city of evil.' City of Strength/Domination/Taint? I realize most truebies aren't going to know what Taint means, but evil is subjective and inaccurate. Every org has done things that could be considered evil, and thematically, Glomdoring's ideology and practices are no less "evil" than Magnagora's.
    Glom's blurb is pretty sinister and dark sounding, and by contrast, Seren's had a "Disney Forest" kind of sound (by contrast, and by the description given).

    I actually had a nice time there when I started out. Nobody was inappropriate that I remember. 
    Ah, well, if it sounds Disney, I'd expect less licking... 

    I didn't leave Serenwilde because of the snugglers, I can say that much. It does at least seem to be worse than from what I remember.
    I didn't leave because of the snugglers per se. There were more snugglers and, playing a character with a happy disposition, it was getting pretty hard to not get associated with the snugglers (even when you're the one telling them privately to tone it down or it will make them unpopular). Also it was a pretty hostile environment and felt like walking on eggshells all the time. 

    In Gaudi, meanwhile, I get rewarded for just being myelf and designing food in peace. Which is a reason I'll be sad if Gaudi goes dormant - I don't know of any other org where you can play a happy, carefree character and people won't look at you weird.
    You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
  • Coraline said:


    In Gaudi, meanwhile, I get rewarded for just being myelf and designing food in peace. Which is a reason I'll be sad if Gaudi goes dormant - I don't know of any other org where you can play a happy, carefree character and people won't look at you weird.
    I've never really gotten Gaudi's rp. Hallifax, though, I love playing up the superiority and respect/discipline of it(I like Magnagora for the same reason), along with being able to have roleplayed arguments about paperwork without actually taking it seriously. It's sad, because each of the orgs, played well, is actually very distinct and has something that appeals to different people- and yet, they're also complex enough that you could potentially have alliances between any two orgs. That's something I don't think any other IRE mud really offered, at least of my experiences playing other ones.

    I don't like trying to say which ones can go, as there's things I'd miss no matter what. And really, I do still believe the class and artifact balance is a bigger problem anyway.
    "Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
  • You can be pretty carefree and upbeat in a lot of the orgs, as long as you're not causing issues. Example in Mag right now is Alarin, super upbeat aslaran with unusual speech. He's not causing trouble or being disrespectful, so nobody takes issue. I think that's the balance that has to be struck.
  • Gaudi, I think, was intended to be "the partying masses" behind which the "intellectual elite" ruled and directed the city's forces.

    Like, if you read the history of the Taint Wars, Bhodi seemed like a crazy old guy but was, in fact, crazy clever and more aware than he appeared.
    WHY WE FIGHT
    Accountability is necessary.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Coraline said:


    I actually had a nice time there when I started out. Nobody was inappropriate that I remember. 
    You didn't see a lot.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    @Saran I don't expect my scenarios to be followed and was more fun to just explore how mergers/nuking orgs might happen but fine...

    Nuke Serenwilde/Magnagora stays: Fain returns, manages to imprison Lisaera. Hoaracle tries to bargain for release with location to key to Hyringex Collar. Fain betrays contract and kills both forming new power couple with Drocilla. Fully empowered Dro seduces Charune, undersway Charune kills Maylea but this breaks enchantment. Charune gores Dro and cuts off her tongue but has to flee from Morg. Dro loses song of creation ability and in rage destroys Serenwilde. Charune + Auseklis lead Seren survivors to dark, edgy swamp forest where they get over difference with Glom/Halli survivors and go full scale Cimtri/Earthburner spirits against remaining Mag + BurningStar cities.
  • Meanwhile, Thax is in the back producing his own popcorn to eat while watching the show.
  • Makai said:
    Saran said:
    Makai said:
    Saran said:
    At the mentioning of all 7 archetypes per side, hints that Nature themes are apart of it. We already have the 'good' and 'evil' forests, etc. Also, in the case of civilization versus nature it becomes a story telling arc. The Basin can be torn apart with tatters remaining, each 'side' adopting a nexus and whatever planar connections, maybe mages get merged into just a straight up Magi, all 4 elements fused together once more (look at Klaymech, it's happened before in the lore) and that's how they meld. Nature side would have druids to counter, civi would have some kind of guardians, and nature having the wiccans. There is always a way to make it work, thematically and story-telling wise. If it because just themes of dichotomies then you can make each side have access to all 7 like I said and just have a themed version of each. Not a hard concept I would hope.
    You're being super generic about what you're talking about to the point that it's impossible for others to meaningfully engage with whatever you're actually suggesting.

    For example, if you're saying all 7 archetypes per side and then talking about nature vs civilisation then it makes no sense in the context of lusternia (ie the one that matters). Because the reality is that four of the archetypes are ultimately just nature-specific and civilisation-specific variations of each other (to the point the final archetype is known as the sixth not eighth), so it doesn't make sense for "civilisation" to have nature archetypes.

    If you think there's a way to make it work, then actually make a suggestion of what that would actually look like. Tell us where people who like concepts from each of the existing orgs would end up.
    Bolded the part that explains your confusion for you. I said if it was civilization versus nature, you'd have mages v druids, guardians v wiccan. I made a special case example specifically for that, where the others that are just opposites could have access to all 7. It makes sense when you read it, I promise.
    Nope, you're not reading my post and continuing to be too generic.

    I guess I'll respond with generalisms.

    Right now we have some people who like to be:
    • Nature
    • Good
    • Evil
    • Emo(?)
    • ChAoS!1
    • Science!
    If you're merging the orgs directly then Civilisation is Good and Evil and ChAoS!1 and Science!.
    Nature can work something out with the orgs flowing into it but Civilisation is literally taking two pairings of diametric opposites and jamming those people into a new org.

    Also, the fusion of all four elements already exists afaik, it's called Nature.
  • edited April 2019
    Ushaara said:
    @Saran I don't expect my scenarios to be followed and was more fun to just explore how mergers/nuking orgs might happen but fine...

    Nuke Serenwilde/Magnagora stays: Fain returns, manages to imprison Lisaera. Hoaracle tries to bargain for release with location to key to Hyringex Collar. Fain betrays contract and kills both forming new power couple with Drocilla. Fully empowered Dro seduces Charune, undersway Charune kills Maylea but this breaks enchantment. Charune gores Dro and cuts off her tongue but has to flee from Morg. Dro loses song of creation ability and in rage destroys Serenwilde. Charune + Auseklis lead Seren survivors to dark, edgy swamp forest where they get over difference with Glom/Halli survivors and go full scale Cimtri/Earthburner spirits against remaining Mag + BurningStar cities.
    I mean, aside from being a great example of not even surface understanding of the org you're talking about, why would the resultant org need Hallifax?
    You've basically merged together with two orgs where one of them definitely thinks everything about you (all cities really) is anathema and the other maybe less so.

    Perhaps we should start having some fun coming up with ways to nuke hallifax in the most lore destroying ways possible.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    You don't appreciate facetious comments, noted.

    Point is that change happens. Whatever decision is made, storytelling arcs that get orgs to pair whatever way the admin team think will lead to best future for the game are possible. Fully confident that if admin team decide to proceed, they will have a story arc that they put a lot more time and thought in than the minute I did this morning.

    As for suggesting nuking Hallifax ideas - go for it. I'd like to think about how Ushaara would react to whatever you come up with!
  • Ushaara said:

    As for suggesting nuking Hallifax ideas - go for it. I'd like to think about how Ushaara would react to whatever you come up with!
    There's been talk of figuring out how to move Hallifax and crashing it into the sea of Despair. The resulting tsunami takes out all of Magnagora, Glomdoring, and Celest, and I figure Serenwilde turns into a wetlands area. Plot twist: Gaudiguch becomes the last refuge in the Basin.

    If it does go, my vote is in favor of crashing it somewhere and taking out at least one other org in the process.
    "Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
  • Kethaera said:
    Ushaara said:

    As for suggesting nuking Hallifax ideas - go for it. I'd like to think about how Ushaara would react to whatever you come up with!
    There's been talk of figuring out how to move Hallifax and crashing it into the sea of Despair. The resulting tsunami takes out all of Magnagora, Glomdoring, and Celest, and I figure Serenwilde turns into a wetlands area. Plot twist: Gaudiguch becomes the last refuge in the Basin.

    If it does go, my vote is in favor of crashing it somewhere and taking out at least one other org in the process.
    Okay let's crash it on top of Gaudiguch ^-^

    It would make for some Hot & Explosive Roleplaying.
This discussion has been closed.