Ascension - Wyrdenwood, Lag, Bragging Rights.

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  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 147 Master
    edited July 2020
    Synl said:
    No, it has not. You keep saying this and it is still a lie. There has been no report put in for wyrdenwood bombs. You did rant about it on discord, but there is way, way more consistent ranting about monks on discord too. There was huge ranting about Aeonics, at one point. Etc. It is unreasonable to expect IO to change things because a handful of people are ranting about an ability.

    Put in a report. If that report is supported by players, and then still rejected by the admins, then you can start saying what you've been saying and it will actually mean something.


    Not wyrdenwood bombs directly, but Report 151 does indirectly state that Noose and Creeping presented a problem. Noose was the target of that report, which was subsequently hit with half a solution. :D You can imagine how that didn't exactly boost confidence that envoys are enough to fix any future problems with wyrdenwood.
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  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 147 Master
    edited July 2020
    At this point, I think it's best if we just wait if the admins will respond to the issues. If nothing's acknowledged in 48 hours, I'll accept that the admins have assessed the situation properly, deemed wood bombs are fine, and so I'll drop the subject entirely. 

    edit; to clarify, I'm not asking for Creeping to be yeeted to oblivion in 48 hours. :D I just wanna know if they think something is wrong and so, potentially, something could change. Don't wanna waste time preparing reports and doing testing if things aren't considered an issue in the first place.
    It's pronounced "Maggy'!

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  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,154 Mythical
    Brawrur said:
    We've literally had multiple discussions with Oraeal over the course of like months telling him how bullshit this thing is. 

    Well, then this is a huge issue. Why are there these discussions taking place away from most of the player base?
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  • BrawrurBrawrur Member Posts: 25 Inept
    Steingrim said:
    Well, then this is a huge issue. Why are there these discussions taking place away from most of the player base?
    You are actually just very openly trolling at this point aren't you?
  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 147 Master
    Steingrim said:
    Brawrur said:
    We've literally had multiple discussions with Oraeal over the course of like months telling him how bullshit this thing is. 

    Well, then this is a huge issue. Why are there these discussions taking place away from most of the player base?
    It's been discussed in the game, Discord, and now, the forums. What other channel of communication have we missed? 
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  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 505 Expert
    edited July 2020
    Going to chime in briefly to say that players have been aware of issues with wood design since oh... day one of their release, and that none of the major problems have ever been fixed. The classes have *always* been feast or famine with really busted bombs in huge group fights and substantial issues doing anything else but spam. Read the special reports and you'll see reports on such hits as noose and so on. 

    There have been many reports, pages of analysis written and ignored, and it's one of the reasons I don't play anymore.
  • ParhelionParhelion Member Posts: 402 Fabled
    Mboagn said:
     You saw how quick the admins tried to slap a band-aid on Ascension woes with a truefavour. 


    I'm not sure how much experience you have with Ascension, but pretty much every year, our admin hand out favours like candy after ascension, win or lose, because we work our asses off. That isn't them pandering to us, that's them literally icly saying, "you mortals are alright, thanks for not letting Kethuru eat us."
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  • ThalkrosThalkros Member Posts: 230 Expert
    Parhelion said:
    Mboagn said:
     You saw how quick the admins tried to slap a band-aid on Ascension woes with a truefavour. 


    I'm not sure how much experience you have with Ascension, but pretty much every year, our admin hand out favours like candy after ascension, win or lose, because we work our asses off. That isn't them pandering to us, that's them literally icly saying, "you mortals are alright, thanks for not letting Kethuru eat us."
    Except the TF came with a ‘hey sorry about the lag, sucks. Have a tf.’ System message which is what a lot of people found pretty poorly done. 
  • ParhelionParhelion Member Posts: 402 Fabled
    Thalkros said:
    Parhelion said:
    Mboagn said:
     You saw how quick the admins tried to slap a band-aid on Ascension woes with a truefavour. 


    I'm not sure how much experience you have with Ascension, but pretty much every year, our admin hand out favours like candy after ascension, win or lose, because we work our asses off. That isn't them pandering to us, that's them literally icly saying, "you mortals are alright, thanks for not letting Kethuru eat us."
    Except the TF came with a ‘hey sorry about the lag, sucks. Have a tf.’ System message which is what a lot of people found pretty poorly done. 


    ok, I didn't catch that one >.>
    Her voice firm and commanding, Terentia, the Even Bladed says to you, "You have kept your oath to Me, Parhelion. You have sworn to maintain Justice in these troubled times."

    Yet if a boon be granted me, unworthy as I am, let it be for a steady hand with a clear eye and a fury most inflaming.
  • JaspetJaspet Member Posts: 75 Capable
    Brawrur said:
    We've literally had multiple discussions with Oraeal over the course of like months telling him how bullshit this thing is. 

    It's not that it hasn't "gotten to the people who make the decisions" or somehow slipped by. We've literally had him tell us that it's very fair and balanced and right.

    "Do reports" is a shit response. We may as well tell IHC to just not do any combat for the next year until those open again. 

    I remember being deterred away from touching the whole race thing as an envoy report and had my hands too full of reports to actually make some of Gaudi's classes not as much of a joke.

    I don't know why you're calling anyone liars, there are logs of this.
    The problem seems to be expectations.

    There is absolutely no way that a special report was going to happen without the involvement of the other side's braintrust in the leadup weeks to the biggest event of the year. It just couldn't.

    No matter what you think of Wyrdenwood, no one can object to calling it a major part of our plans. We had eight of our thirty people in that class by design. If that was upended without a formal process in the twilight hours of the Ascension buildup, the outcry would have been so much worse than this.

    We just finished a report cycle with over 100 reports, all of which were given consideration and feedback by both sides. I'm sure you had multiple discussions, just like we did, about which abilities need work and which are pushing out of bounds. That no one addressed Wyrdenwood during that window meant it was going to make an impact on Ascension, because that is the toolkit that we were handed for Ascension. To do otherwise would be to break the process entirely.

    Aoe and passives win Ascension, because of how they scale to groups and lag respectively. It's unfortunate, but unless something dramatic happens like a cap on the number of players hit by an AoE, those skills will always win you events like this.
  • JaspetJaspet Member Posts: 75 Capable
    Dys said:
    That lag in the second half was really frustrating. Worse than I remember seeing in previous Ascensions. At one point I was killed and couldn't reincarnate for nearly three minutes. Even after I turned off my system (which wasn't trying to do anything anyway as it clears when I die) the game was spamming me with 'You are dead and cannot do that.'
    I had a serious moment of panic about midway through when my gust attempts on Choros went through a good five minutes after I had entered them and he was safely back with the group. Thankfully it didn't wreck anything, but it had a real risk to.
  • AoniaAonia Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 114 Creator
    Some posts have been removed from this thread as they were made by, or in reply to, a player who is currently banned.
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  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 218 Adept
    100% if not for all of us being on voice chat, this ascension would have made no sense. The game was 'Well my screen froze, that means the groups met. I guess I send my bomb command and hope something happens.'
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,017 Transcendent
    edited July 2020
    Synl said:
    100% if not for all of us being on voice chat, this ascension would have made no sense. The game was 'Well my screen froze, that means the groups met. I guess I send my bomb command and hope something happens.'

    This times 1,000.
    We were watching the timequakes leading up to Ascension with lots of participants and seeing the lagbeasts that spawned every. single. time that there was an engagement with horror.  It was obvious that Ascension was going to be a lag fest (if there was even a fight of course, for a long time it looked like there wouldn't be).
    The only strategy was to plan with lag in mind.  I wish that it hadn't needed to be that way, for everyone's sake, but that was the state of the game at the time of the event and what we had to work with.
    Edit: Also, from my observation, the lag was worse on whichever side was trying to break into the other side's fortress.  The lag hit most of our team a lot more intensely during the first half than the second per voice chat convos, which was the opposite for IHC.  I was one of the exceptions, because during the first half I was mostly trying to pit around places for control, and the second half I was madly running around doing things on Leo which appeared to be a big cause of the choking.
    I'm really hopeful that enough information has been garnered to address these issues moving forward, because at that point we were playing against the servers, not against the other team.
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  • ShangoShango Member Posts: 181 Adept
    Yeah but...because of the lag, we couldn't easily get within that bomb room radius...and the two times we DID, and reclaimed the damned staff...lag ensured we couldn't keep it. One point, Uzriel had the staff, and we were making our way to a node to safety, so that Ixion could rejoin and claim it. 8 rooms away, kethbit spawned, incapacitated both of us, as lag ensured the command just to STAND (as I kept trying to move in and out for my old Death medallion to kill the damned thing) would not go through at all. So timed out and Ciaran got the staff again and was back to Choros. When we had it 3300:300ish as the score, lag being the deciding factor made it so bad :(

    Soon as Ascension is over though, NO LAG at all. Instantly. People frozen in place for those messages, sure, but even after that, no mass QQ's (or better not be), but still no lag issues. I really hope it all gets fixed.
  • NelrasNelras Member Posts: 190 Expert
    edited July 2020
    In response to anyone questioning why Ascension was not postponed, please could I just mention that some people had to make RL arrangements in order to attend. While, "Just run it tomorrow or next week," sounds like a quick solution, it may not have been that easy. While the lag was bad for people on both sides, potentially in part due to the increased number of players, it has to be better than not having people turn up.
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 981 Transcendent
    Nelras said:
    In response to anyone questioning why Ascension was not postponed, please could I just mention that some people had to make RL arrangements in order to attend. While, "Just run it tomorrow or next week," sounds like a quick solution, it may not have been that easy. While the lag was bad for people on both sides, potentially in part due to the increased number of players, it has to be better than not having people turn up.
    Completely disagree. I would have rather have logged out than continued, but didn't because of the commitment to finish. There will never be a good time for me in the next month or so(and Saturday messed up a lot of my rl plans, too), but better a bad time I had to work around than what we got.
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  • NelrasNelras Member Posts: 190 Expert
    That is entirely your decision to make, and I am sorry to hear that you feel that way about how it went. I just wanted to make sure that someone said that it might not be a trivial matter to reschedule it.
  • AknarinAknarin Member Posts: 12 Novice
    <blockquote class="Quote">
    <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/Synl">Synl</a> said:</div>
    <div class="QuoteText">100% if not for all of us being on voice chat, this ascension would have made no sense. The game was 'Well my screen froze, that means the groups met. I guess I send my bomb command and hope something happens.'</div>
    </blockquote>

    This... i remember saying on our voice chat “Yay I died” for the pure fact that being around the IHC fortress after engagement just lagged out my screen completely. It then took me a further 5 minutes to reincarnate because 1) I had to wait for all my old commands to go through. 2) I couldn’t remember the command to reincarnate because my mind went blank (thanks @Xenthos) And 3) the reincarnate wouldn’t go through. 

    Lag was horrendous.  We all agree it killed it for everyone. 
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