Some questions from a newbie

KeterKeter Member Posts: 4 Inept
Hey guys!

I'm an old time IRE player but a definite Lusternia newbie. I've spent countless hours in Achaea, and in the past when I'd try Lusternia out, I found that I loved the atmosphere, but would get overwhelmed with the differences that took me years to learn in Achaea, so I'd always find myself returning there.

That said, I've been absent from all Muds for a while and when I returned there, it too has changed dramatically. So I'm now at a point where I basically need to relearn Achaea from scratch or venture on to new worlds. In my eyes, it's the perfect time to make the migration to Lusternia.

I have a few questions though before I begin devoting a lot of time and money to the game though.

The skills and the whole system seem vastly different from what I'm used to. Can you guys give me a breakdown of what sort of archetypes are best in the following:

1. Cheapest in terms of skill investment to start casual and group combat - I really enjoy city defense and raids
2. Best archetype for group combat - what sort of archetypes have the most group fight utility?
3. What archetypes give the most general utility (buffs, revives, travel, etc.)

Also, what sort of city conflict is going on or is the most prevalent? I like to be in a very active conflict city. In Achaea, Mhaldor was always my city of choice because they always had people upset with them, which led to constant conflict. I loved that.

Right now I'm leaning toward Glomdoring. The lore just seems awesome, and I love what I'm reading about Shadowdancers Wiccans and the Druids. Quick questions on those points: 

1. Does Glom raid/get raided often? If not, could you suggest a city or commune that would be fitting?
2. Are druids and their melds very fun/useful? If another druid is melding, does that limit other druids in the same area/raid, or can they meld on top of another's?
3. Can wiccans still kill by setting up a choke? I read a post on the forum a long time ago that had a detailed guide on wiccan combat, and setting up a choke into a toadstomp sounded awesome (can't find the post naywhere but it talked about both MD and SD wiccans - it was really good).
4. Is there anything I should be worried about with the combat overhaul? Is that gimping/buffing affliction classes like wiccans?

Finally, coat tailing on that last question, is M&M worth buying right now or is coding a custom system worth the time given the new combat overhaul talk? I don't know much about it other than that its changing the afflictions, so not sure if now is the time to start getting into combat, or if I should just wait on learning all that once the combat system changes?

Thanks for reading!

Comments

  • ArelArel Member Posts: 15 Capable
    Not sure of the answer to all of your questions, but as gar as general utility, most classes have options that offer utility. I think guardians/wiccans have the best options for utility though.

    Druids and their melds are extremely useful. I've never found melds fun, but some people do (I think?). They can't meld over top of one another, but you can have multiple in an area.

    Shadowdancers are awesome but they no longer have choke. It was replaced with shadowtwist.

    The combat overhaul is so far out that it's hard to say when the end result will look like.
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    I would suggest a monk or bard for a first character, as they can do the most with just their primary guild skill (bards can be pretty useful with just music).

    Lusternia is very complicated right now and coding your own combat system would be pretty daunting. I wouldn't count on the overhaul finalising any time soon either (at the rate we're moving, minimum of a year, my guess).
  • TajalliTajalli Member Posts: 48 Capable
    I remember having fun with my melds back in the day (both in roleplay and in being useful in a fight/how they work). I'm still working off the rust, admittedly, but you might consider just making a handful of noobs to play with skills a bit before choosing one to really focus on/make a full main in. 

    Druids cannot overlap melds, but they can fit them together like puzzle pieces, or have to break the other's meld's ends to set down their own. It provides some interesting challenges in strategy/timing/coordination. 

    Glom's defended against some Ethereal raids lately, so there is definitely some activity for you to get your feet wet in!
  • KeterKeter Member Posts: 4 Inept
    Thanks for the input, both of you.

    Yeah, the whole demesne thing seems really interesting to me. Creating a series of rooms that you're powerful in seems like a blast, especially in a group situation.

    Bard seems really fun (always been my favorite archetype in other RPGs). Could you elaborate a little more on how their music works in this? Is it like other IRE's where you sing a song and it affects the room, granting group buffs or attacks?
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    Keter said:

    Bard seems really fun (always been my favorite archetype in other RPGs). Could you elaborate a little more on how their music works in this? Is it like other IRE's where you sing a song and it affects the room, granting group buffs or attacks?
    A bit like that, yes. It can be blocked by use of a herb for a defence (truedeaf), which can be similarly stripped (blanknote) with a cooldown period (earache). Basic music then has various afflictions that increase magic damage, cause damage on mana drain, cause damage on ego drain, a skill that does more damage depending on how many of these affs (aurics) are stuck, etc. Everyone has a damage buff in their spec, otherwise the spec song effects vary quite a bit.

    The other major focal point of bards, especially in groups, is perfect fifth, which prevents the target from leaving unless they are deaf.

    That might give you some idea of expectation here.

  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,799 Transcendent
    More or less
    Keter said:


    Bard seems really fun (always been my favorite archetype in other RPGs). Could you elaborate a little more on how their music works in this? Is it like other IRE's where you sing a song and it affects the room, granting group buffs or attacks?
    More or less, yes. It's a timed effect, with more skill level = longer song length. With enough skill, you can learn to refrain your song, which starts over the duration. There are 9 "stanzas" in your song, and as you gain in your skill, you'll get more effects to imbue into the stanzas, which serve as a sort of slot and allows decent customisation of your song effects.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Regarding the archetype questions:

    1) The cheapest in terms of credit/lesson investment to get up and running in combat might be bard or monk. I'm not entirely sure of the other archetypes and which of their guild skills are required for combat, but I know bards can (theoretically) play a big role in fights just with aurics (not even trans). Their secondary and tertiary skills are usually extras that help them survive, not absolutely essential to combat. Of course, if you have nothing but aurics, you WILL be fairly limited. Monks too, have the majority, if not all, of their offense in a single skillset. They do not need their secondaries and tertiaries to kill or achieve their instakills. Monk combat, however, is fairly complicated, and the time investment needed to get up and running may be more than any other archetype. My personal opinion is that half of the fight as a monk takes place before it begins - when you create your kata forms and customise them, since it is not really possible to change/edit them on the fly in combat.

    2) In group combat, aoe effects can play a huge role. The most aoe-centric archetype is the mage/druid archetype. However, the problem with playing one is that you will be the first target, and when outnumbered, you will find it near to impossible to set up your aoe. If there's a better mage/druid on your side, you will often find you are asked to let them do the aoe instead, as well. Bards are the next aoe class, and they also synergize very well with pretty much every other class in their org. They don't have much killing power solo, though, aurics as mentioned above, is pretty much the only way to kill as a Bard solo, and against opponents who know how to avoid it, you'll find it extremely difficult to make progress or finish the fight. The other classes don't have as much aoe, but they all bring different roles to the fight - guardians/wiccans are very hindering, and have several high threat abilities that make it very dangerous to ignore them, like aeon and the such. Warriors have access to some of the most debilitating afflictions in the game, but takes time, or many other warriors, to achieve them quickly. When they do get the wound momentum they need on the target, however, those afflictions can easily lock down an opponent in group settings and is fairly difficult to cure out of. Monks are like warriors on crack, since they are not reliant on that wound momentum and can put out afflictions as well as damage more easily, but on the flip side, they lose their momentum very fast if hindered.

    3) The best non combat utility skills have recently been discussed. If I remember correctly, tarot was pointed out as one of the good skillsets (you'll be familiar with most of its utility, it's very similar to Achaea's) and that's available to City guardian/bards. Communes don't get tarot. The link to the thread is here: http://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/1291

    For the second set of questions:

    1) Generally speaking raids don't happen too often - recently Glomdoring did some raiding and was raided a little more frequently than usual, though that seems to have died down in the past 2 days or so. The communes DO seem to be the more often raided/raiding org, partly because Faethorn is one of the few areas that conflict can easily erupt from - and it's "shared" between the two communes. A small 1v1 can escalate pretty fast into a decently sized raid, depending on the timezone and people around.

    2) Druids/mages and their melds are usually the most important aspect of combat, all other things remaining equal, because there can only be a single person's meld in a room, and the aoe effects it provides can give a significant advantage. Numbers or certain strategies can counter that, of course, so it's not a sure win, but suffice to say it can play a very important role in securing a fight or turning the tables. Because only one person can have a meld in the room, many fights boil down to which side can keep their meld up over the other side, though that also means only one druid/mage on your side can hold a meld in the room. Extra druid/mages aren't useless, however, since the more friendly druid/mages you have in your team, the easier it is to maintain a friendly meld, because only druid/mages have the abilities needed to break or make a meld, and the extra druid/mages can help their primary melder upkeep theirs over the enemy's if there's a number advantage.

    3) Choke no longer exists, as mentioned, but the aeon effect is still around, and remains a major part of Moondancer combat. Shadowdancers also have aeon, albeit in a slightly less controlled form, but with additional effects. The exact details and differences between MD/SD combat can be explained if you wish. Generally speaking, toadstomp remains the wiccans' go-to kill method, and both SDs and MDs have ways to drain mana in which aeon plays a part. The nature of mana kills also means that the more people you have on your side, the easier it is to pull it off, a concept you should be familiar with, since priest sapping is an old, tried and tested combat strategy in other IREs as well. Wiccans thus synergize well with their guildmates, and also their orgmates.

    4) The overhaul is too long away to factor into considerations at this point in time, in my opinion.

    M&M comes with constant updates, and if the Overhaul goes through, I think Vadi will convert M&M for it as well. I'm not Vadi, of course, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't. It works well in the current combat scene, with decent customisation options and fairly good support.

  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    To truly be effective investment wise, Wiccans tend to require to trans at least two of their guild skills (Night/Moon and Wicca) along with having up to contemplate in Discernment.  It's a pretty hefty investment.  That being said, well, as an extremely biased opinion, Shadowdancers are awesome and we need more new ones.  :D
    image
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    Bards are easiest to understand and play with minimum investment. The Music skillset is pretty straightforward, and as for the specs, they have different play styles. If you want to, we can outline the themes of the various Bard specs. Wiccans are generally fun to play, but you do have to trans your spec(Night/Moon) and Wicca to get the most out of it. Choke got removed and got replaced with Shadow Twist. You can take a look here to get quick idea for the skillsets in Lusternia.
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • KeterKeter Member Posts: 4 Inept
    Wow tons of input, thanks everyone!

    And thanks for the link to that skill site Siam. Looking over the music skillset, and listening to what you're all saying, I think Bards sound like a good fit to get my feet wet at least. Do you have any insight on the different playstyles of all the different kinds?
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    edited March 2014
    You're welcome, @Keter! @Viynain built that site, though. All credit goes to him. :)

    Here's a rundown of the Bard specs in alphabetical order:

    o Loralaria(Hallifax) - involves attaching gems to musical instruments to improve a song effect. The skillset revolves around lust, aeon, and timewarp. It may be best for a Hallibard to explain this to you, since I have not taken this spec myself. Deathsong is Funebre. 

    o Minstrelry(Gaudiguch) -  revolves around fire damage, fire damage resistance, sobriety levels, temporary insanity. Among the most notable skills would be Shot Note(increases inebriation). Deathsong is Rave.

    o Necroscream(Magnagora) - revolves around temporary undeath(allies become undead if they can hear the bard's song), undead regeneration, and varying effects based on plague afflictions(includes epilepsy, pox, rigormortis, scabies and worms). This is the only bard spec that can be used to dominate other players(Dark Master). Deathsong is Threnody. 

    o Shadowbeat(Glomdoring) - revolves around poisons, poison resistance, bleeding, and mana drain. Notable skills include Nightshade Blues(this increases mana loss by 50%) and Crow Caw(stun, varying afflictions). Shadowbeat synergizes well with the four other Glomdoring guilds since Glom guilds capitalize on mana loss. Deathsong is Dirge.

    o Starhymn(Celest) - involves summoning angels to do various things(damage resistance, affliction/damage, resurrection - the only bard spec able to ressurect players). They have Ever Sea, which passively breaks shields, Princess Farewell that afflicts with aeon along with a few other afflictions. Most of the songs in Starhymn requires certain effects imbued before they can be used. Generally, using these songs causes the song to fade by a certain number of stanzas. Deathsong is Requiem.

    o Wildarrane(Serenwilde) - involves summoning ancestral spirits for various effects(enemy alert, damage resistance, afflicting enemies). They also have Fae Ditty which makes enemies sing the stanza the song is imbued in and causes equilibrium loss. The most prominent skill would be Cairn Largo, which allows you to latch spirits on to a target and then use them for a number of effects based on how many spirits are currently haunting the target. These include entanglement, summoning from the same area, cold damage, affliction burst, and cold damage+stun). Deathsong is Bardoon.

    As a note, all bard specs have an organizational song that boosts damage, one song that causes either balance or equilibrium loss, and one deathsong.


    PS

    Become a Harbinger Today!
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,799 Transcendent
    While I won't speculate on better bard guild vs worse specs, I -will- say that each bard guild has pluses and minuses in its songs. For instance, the Harbingers (Glomdoring) do synergize especially well with the rest of the guilds there. The Cacophony (Magnagora) have passive affliction healing, and their passive effects do actually kill people from time to time. I play a Spiritsinger (Serenwilde) from time to time, and while their passives aren't great, I've always played them as burst damage (massive cold damage plus a slightly higher set of buffs for damage than most bard specs).

    Don't be afraid to roll a newbie in each and try them out.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent

    I concur, Bard is the easiest to learn and cheapest to pick up and play with. Aurics are easy to learn and easy to track. I will warn you that there is a ceiling for solo bard pk. There people with enough health and passive healing/curing to tank you forever. Octave can also be an easily countered and frustrating mechanic to deal with. The good news is you are rarely the first target in groups, which gives you the freedom to set people up for quick kills.

    SD is easy to learn but more expensive to be successful with. There are a lot of skills in Night that allow an SD to dictate the terms of the fight (bonds, brumetower). That being said, we share them with Ebonguard so it's rare for Glom to NEED an SD around for those skills. SD is fun, and there are exceedingly few things about the guild that are unique aside from player driven environment and canon lore (which are amazing, if I may toot my own guild's horn). You also have to deal with the unfortunate fact that everyone will steal your toad kills. You won't get the credit, nor the xp the vast majority of the time, which can be really frustrating if you are a PKer and like your ego fueled by deathsight spam (like me). The guild also happens to be wildly power intensive, you will run out of power before everyone else, even the mage. If you build your character correctly, you can also be one of the highest damage dealers in the game. You can also be extremely resistant to damage kills. The biggest downside is you have ONLY ONE way to kill people in solo combat, which is tedious for some.

     

    The easiest bard spec to learn on is Cantor. Highest damage potential, solid damage mitigation when you need it, aeon spam for group support.

    Spiritsingers are more complicated but also have the most potential for effective solo PK.

    Harbingers are easily the best at team support. Their bleeding and increase to all mana drains for the team is hugely appreciated. They can be the linch pin in a successful group fight. Reasonable solo capabilities. Not great though.

    Necroscream has some nice skills that are useful, but generally the worst bard guild by a large margin. Solid active hindering ability though.

    I don't know much about minstrelry, other than they can be the best tanks in the game. Very solid damage.

    No clue about loralaria. There was one bard once that abused their new tertiary to great effect, but after that, he faded away. Haven't really been any since then. No idea what they are really capable of.

     

    I can break down SD combat if you're interested. Choke is gone, our offense revolves around 1 skill (shadowtwist) and bursting down mana. I'll save if for another time if you are set on bard though!

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  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess Member Posts: 2,927 Transcendent
    People have mentioned credit investment for wiccans, so I'll add my two cents here, but for melders... neither druid nor mage can hope to accomplish a kill without at least two trans skills - primary and tertiary (Some cases, you'd want your secondary, too). On top of that, if you expect to not be ignored when wanting to meld, you'd want to buy a rune for bigger demesne because even if the other person melding isn't as good as you are, having a bigger meld does mean more work for an enemy melder trying to break it and more chances to catch said enemy melder and kill them.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • KeterKeter Member Posts: 4 Inept
    Man all of this information is great.

    After reading all of your responses and reviewing some of the information on that skill index website, I'm thinking I'm going to start off with a Harbinger Bard. The increase in bleeding skillset sounds really fun. The Gaudiguch's guild's set revolving around inebriation does too, but as Ileein advised, I think that my initial affinity for Glomdoring should be taken into consideration.
    Siam said:

    PS

    Become a Harbinger Today!
    I'll join up today :)

    Thank you all, once again. I really appreciate every one of your responses!
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    Highfive! NMBG! GBTG!
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


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